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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / January 2006alignment at NTB......casters?
Brought my 98 dodge dakota pickup into NTB for new tires and alignment (the latter costs $70). I read over the printout afterwards and notice that only the toes and cambers (front tires) were adjusted or changed.....I asked why the casters were not adjusted, even though they are out of the proper range (according to printout), and the front desk guy said he didn't think they could be adjusted (I didn't talk to the alignment guy because the place was closing that night....I'll probably go back...but first I want to become a little informed before doing that). Drove the truck home and it handles quite well, but ...... still think they were probably just cutting corners (?). I do remember the same thing happening about 5 years ago...NTB said something to the effect that "not good to adjust the casters....can throw off the toe" (or something vaguely similar to that). p.s. Left caster is 4.9 but the correct range is: 2.5 to 3.5 RIGHT caster: same as above Actually, i don't know if they did a good job with the camber and toe, because they certainly didn't move the numbers anywhere into the CENTER of the correct ranges, although they did put everything into the correct ranges (but on the "edges" of the range, in some cases, if you know what I mean). > Brought my 98 dodge dakota pickup into NTB for new tires and alignment > (the latter costs $70). I read over the printout afterwards and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > correct ranges (but on the "edges" of the range, in some cases, if you > know what I mean). Sounds lilke you got yourself a "toe & go," where (IIRC) they basically adjust toe and thrust angle and that's pretty much it. FYI I DEFINATELY AM NOT DEFENDING NTB Caster is not adjustable on most vehicles nowadays, although I am not sure about yours. Trucks usually are adjustable. On most it is a difficult adjustment & not done by alot of techs unless absolutely necessary. Caster is not a tire wearing angle & usually adjusting goes on a case by case basis. If it is equal from side to side & not severely over spec it is usually left as is. If it is under spec there is more chance of drivability issues & should be adjusted. Now to what may have actually happened. Some alignment machines save caster readings from previous cars put on the rack if you dont fully back out of the program. The alignment tech may not have even measured it because it takes extra time to measure caster. Lastly, if your not happy with the other readings (camber & toe) bring it back. tell them you want it right. Or fib a little & tell them it isn't driving right. Most of the time (98%) the caster and SIA readings are used by bodyshops to determine if there are bend or broken suspension components or frame issues. As far as I know only a few vans and light trucks actually have adjustments, and the ones that do require special kits. If you push your hand up against the tire while its on the alignment machine it would change the toe and camber reading. NTB could have put all the adjustments right in the middle for you but the second you drove out they would have all been slightly different. So why spend the time to do so? And as for telling them the car isn't driving right, if the tech has any brains at all he'll ask you to drive with him to show him the problem. Don't waste their time unless you actually have a problem. Chris > FYI I DEFINATELY AM NOT DEFENDING NTB > > Caster is not adjustable on most vehicles nowadays, although I am not sure > about yours. Trucks usually are adjustable. On most it is a difficult > adjustment & not done by alot of techs unless absolutely necessary. On virtually any truck that has adjustable camber, the caster is adjusted the same way. It is not more difficult to do one than the other. It is somewhat difficult to get all four readings on both sides to be near perfect, but fairly easy to get them all well within spec. Toyota MDT in MO > FYI I DEFINATELY AM NOT DEFENDING NTB For good reason > Caster is not adjustable on most vehicles nowadays, although I am not sure > about yours. Trucks usually are adjustable. On most it is a difficult > adjustment & not done by alot of techs unless absolutely necessary. I wouldn't call it "difficult." You just have to know what you're doing. Adjusting caster usually affects camber and toe, so you have to do some thinking about how to get both caster and camber in spec simultaneously. It also may be desirable to let caster be out of spec a little if getting it in the zone results in a poorer camber setting, because camber is more critical to handling and tire wear. That's not to say that caster isn't important- it has a big effect on "positive center" steering feel and steering wheel self-return to center behavior. Toe is the final setting and is the one that is independent of the others. Frankly, I wouldn't expect any more out of a meat-grinder operation like NTB. Its kinda like the old 'never order shrimp at the waffle house' philosophy. > > FYI I DEFINATELY AM NOT DEFENDING NTB > > For good reason Its kinda like the old 'never order shrimp at the waffle house' > philosophy. Hey, good analogy! Seriously, though, based on all the different and divergent responses, I'm inclined to just leave it the way it is, because the truck handles beautifully now. (But then again, people with high cholesterol may also feel great, but ten years later their dead.....is that a useful analogy here?) >>>FYI I DEFINATELY AM NOT DEFENDING NTB >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > people with high cholesterol may also feel great, but ten years later > their dead.....is that a useful analogy here?) Nah. If it handles well enough and you're happy with the on-center feel, then the caster being a bit out of spec isn't going to cause any long term problems. Conversely, you can pick camber and toe settings that will give you an INCREDIBLE road feel and wonderful handling... but will chew up a set of tires in 10,000 miles. |
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