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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / February 2006

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Soon speeding will not be possible...

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Steve W. - 29 Jan 2006 03:48 GMT
http://www.americanprowler.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9327

Make Speeding Impossible?
By Eric Peters
Published 1/26/2006 12:07:35 AM

Like tearing off that sticker on mattresses that warns us not to "under
penalty of law," most of us don't pay much attention to speed limits.
Five to ten over is the rule, not the exception -- as any survey of
average traffic speeds will confirm. We vote with our right foot every
time we get behind the wheel, countermanding the diktats of the local
bureaucrats who erect limits well below what large majorities (better
than 85 percent, if you want an actual figure based upon actual traffic
surveys) of us consider reasonable rates of travel.

But what if driving faster than our masters want us to became an
impossibility?

For years, this has been The Dream of safety-badger types, who equate
any deviance from often arbitrarily set posted speed limits with mowing
down small children in a gigantic SUV with really loud mufflers, one
hand on the wheel, the other clutching a half-empty fifth of Jack
Daniel's. They pushed for mechanical governors (which never flew) and
even managed, briefly, to get a law passed that required all new cars to
be fitted with speedometers that read no faster than 85 mph (really).

Now, however, the technology exists for a great leap forward -- or
backward, depending on your point of view.

The Canadians are testing out a system that pairs onboard Global
Positioning Satellite (GPS) technology with a digital speed limit map.
It works very much like the in-car GPS navigation systems that have
become so common on late model cars -- but with a twist. Instead of
helping you find a destination, the system prevents you from driving any
faster than the posted speed limit of the road you happen to be on.

As in a conventional GPS-equipped car or truck, the system knows what
road you happen to be on, as well as the direction you're traveling. And
the information is continuously updating as you move. But in addition to
this, the system also acquires information about the speed limit on each
road, as you drive. Once your vehicle reaches that limit, the car's
computer makes it increasingly difficult to go any faster. (See
TopStories for more details.)

And unlike in years past, when a clumsy mechanical device would be used
to physically prevent the gas pedal from being depressed all the way (or
the carburetor's throttle plates opened fully), vehicle speed can be
easily (and much more thoroughly) limited by a modern car's onboard
electronics. Indeed, a few new cars -- mostly powerful sports cars --
already have what's known as a "valet key" that's used to significantly
cut back available power at the owner's discretion.

But in this case, the cutting back would be controlled by Big Momma --
and "I can't drive 55" a toothless battle cry from a bygone era.

Ten vehicles equipped with this technology are currently being tested in
the Ottawa area; if the trial is "successful," a wider series of tests
is planned -- and it's a sure bet the entire thing will eventually be
the object of a very strong-armed push to make it mandatory equipment in
every new car. It will be sold as a "safety" measure -- just like the
55-mph National Maximum Speed Limit was in this country.

And they may just get away with it -- notwithstanding that nine out of
ten of us routinely "speed," a pretty strong indicator of our respect
for posted limits and the wisdom of those who set them.

Why isn't anyone asking -- if current speed limits are so sensible, why
do so many of us disobey them routinely? Wouldn't it make more sense to
adjust speed limits so that they reflect a more reasonable consensus
(based upon how we actually drive) rather than constantly push for new
ways to compel compliance with limits that most of us clearly think are
too low?

Bear in mind that for 20-plus years, we were relentlessly nagged by the
self-styled "safety lobby" (and its profiteers in the insurance
industry) that to exceed the sainted 55 mph limit was "dangerous
speeding" that put ourselves and others at risk. Yet when Congress
finally repealed the 55 mph limit in '95 -- and most states raised their
highway limits to 65, 70, even 75 mph in some cases -- there was no
increase in accident/fatality rates. Clearly, the 55 mph limit was
inappropriately low -- and the millions of tickets issued for "speeding"
based upon it completely unjustified (if by "justification" one means
legitimate safety-related reasons).

The same is true on countless secondary roads -- under-posted limits
that are routinely ignored by most drivers -- enforced by radar traps
and "justified" on the basis of "safety" even though we're well-aware
that driving five or ten mph faster than many of these posted limits has
no bearing whatever on safety, just like driving 65 or 70-something mph
under the old 55 mph NMSL.

But Canada's little experiment could bring a screeching halt to all
that -- literally. Dumbed-down limits -- and dumbed-down driving --
would become much more than the law of the land. They would become an
inescapable way of life.

And don't think that it would stop at the border, either. Those
always-on Daytime Running Lamps most new cars come equipped with used to
be a Canada-only deal, too. The corseted minions of Joan Claybrook (the
Carter-era airbag nag who was a fervent booster of the 55 mph NMSL) are
surely watching Canada's experiment with great interest, tapping their
spindly fingers together as they contemplate the PR campaign they'll
launch to stuff it down our gullets a couple of years hence.

So enjoy your furtive law-breaking while you still can. Very soon, Big
Momma may be doing a lot more than just watching you.

Eric Peters is an automotive columnist and author of Automotive
Atrocities: Cars We Love to Hate (MBI).
Lawrence Glickman - 29 Jan 2006 04:43 GMT
>http://www.americanprowler.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9327
>
[quoted text clipped - 109 lines]
>http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
>----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Oh good.  The end of speeding tickets forever.
"Your honor, I couldn't have POSSIBLY been exceeding the speed limit
as Officer DumFvck has stated, because my car is =incapable= of doing
that."

Municipalities that depend on speeding tickets for REVENUE  are not
going to like this, and expect the trucking industry to step in big
time.

Lg
Richard Bell - 30 Jan 2006 02:33 GMT
>Oh good.  The end of speeding tickets forever.
>"Your honor, I couldn't have POSSIBLY been exceeding the speed limit
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>going to like this, and expect the trucking industry to step in big
>time.

The trucking industry may not actually care.  It is the people that refuse
to hire truckers that actually drive to the regs that will complain.  Them
and the independants who depend on them for their livelihood.
=AB Paul =BB - 29 Jan 2006 04:51 GMT
> http://www.americanprowler.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9327
>
> Make Speeding Impossible?
> By Eric Peters
> Published 1/26/2006 12:07:35 AM

(worthless words snipped)
> speeding" that put ourselves and others at risk. Yet when Congress
> finally repealed the 55 mph limit in '95 -- and most states raised their
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> based upon it completely unjustified (if by "justification" one means
> legitimate safety-related reasons).
(worthless words snipped)

IMO, Eric Peters wrote this article simply to earn a paycheck.
It is poorly thought out, much too wordy, and has no relevance
to the real world.
Al Bundy - 29 Jan 2006 13:56 GMT
«» wrote:

> > http://www.americanprowler.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9327
> >
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> It is poorly thought out, much too wordy, and has no relevance
> to the real world.

Maybe such a concept would work for school busses on prescribed routes.
Nobody speeds more than those folks around here. Or at least GPS track
them to clamp down. They stop for the RR tracks, but not yellow lights
and sometimes not even pedestrians.
spamTHISbrp@yahoo.com - 30 Jan 2006 14:26 GMT
The TAXATION use of GPS technology is much more likel;y to actually
occurr.

-Dave
Alex Rodriguez - 30 Jan 2006 19:25 GMT
>The TAXATION use of GPS technology is much more likel;y to actually
>occurr.

GPS antennas break can break.  The GPS reciever might not get a signal from
the satellite.  I can also see a tiny transmitter that fools the device to
think you are in the part of the world with no speed limit.  Low power so that
it would not affect any other cars.  
-------------
Alex
William S. Hubbard - 30 Jan 2006 21:02 GMT
I'm sure someone is already working on it.
William S. Hubbard - 30 Jan 2006 17:21 GMT
 Get an older car and restore it..
D - 02 Feb 2006 03:47 GMT
Speed limits are posted because it's been decided by state or local
governments that anything faster is unsafe.  Sometimes it's a rational
decision (people have been injured or killed on that stretch of
highway at faster speeds), while many fewew instances are the result
of a vocal minority.

Most police work to enforce the law because they have better things to
do than pick your body parts off the highway and put them in a body
bag (or those of other bystanders, such as pedestrians or other
drivers).  I drive 40,000 miles a year on congested NJ roadways from
local roads to major insterstates.  I see too many near misses and
reckless drivers to respect the views and snide, unprofessional
remarks of this article.

I believe legal leniency is required, but reckless driving is still a
deadly issue in the US.  Respect the law and the law enforcers.  Many
of them understand a genuine mistake (they drive private vehicles,
too)...but they will condemn someone who is ready to argue and lacks
respect for traffic laws.

>http://www.americanprowler.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9327
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>even managed, briefly, to get a law passed that required all new cars to
>be fitted with speedometers that read no faster than 85 mph (really).
Don Bruder - 02 Feb 2006 04:07 GMT
> Speed limits are posted because it's been decided by state or local
> governments that anything faster is unsafe.

Try again. Here's a hint: Speed limits are posted because it's quick,
easy money by the bushel basket-load for local coffers.  

> Sometimes it's a rational
> decision (people have been injured or killed on that stretch of
> highway at faster speeds)

So what? "Think of it as evolution in action" applies nicely here, too.

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Don Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
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Hugo Schmeisser - 02 Feb 2006 04:34 GMT
> > Speed limits are posted because it's been decided by state or local
> > governments that anything faster is unsafe.
>
> Try again. Here's a hint: Speed limits are posted because it's quick,
> easy money by the bushel basket-load for local coffers.

There is a provincial highway (not limited access) fairly near my
place. A long section of it was upgraded and straightened a few years
ago. The speed limit before and after was 80km/h (50 mph).

Instantly, the cops were there with their radar guns, picking off
speeders doing just over 100km/h (62mph). They were really raking it in
(and still are, even now).

The local media then got involved on account of driver outrage. At one
point they interviewed the chief engineer who headed the highway
redesign. He said that the highway had been designed for a natural
cruising speed of 100km/h, and that the decision to sign it at 80 was a
political one.

He said it was no wonder so many people were driving 100, as that was
what was supposed to feel "natural" on that particular road. It could
have easily been designed to feel right at 80, but they were told to
build it for 100.

So what does this mean? The cops were ticketing drivers who were
driving the DESIGN SPEED of the highway! The speed limit had nothing to
do with safety at all, but some other motive instead. A dirty trick
that makes me want to hate cops.

And no, they've never got me. Yet...
Don Bruder - 02 Feb 2006 10:32 GMT
> > > Speed limits are posted because it's been decided by state or local
> > > governments that anything faster is unsafe.
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> do with safety at all, but some other motive instead. A dirty trick
> that makes me want to hate cops.

Yep... We've got several places like that locally, and given the
motivation to research it, I'd say it would be no major problem to find
find dozens, if not hundreds, of others that are similar - WITHOUT
having to leave the state to do it - One chunk of road I travel
frequently is pegged for 45 MPH, despite the fact that, other than a
roughly 3 mile section of near-chicanes that need to be taken at about
50 MPH, the 28 miles or so of it that I use most was obviously laid out
to be (and easily can be, by anyone who didn't get their driver's
license as a prize in a cereal box) driven at roughly 75 MPH. Typical
speed, according to my observations as a driver going with the flow of
traffic, runs between 55 and 65, and in the seven years I've been
driving on it, I've seen or heard of exactly *TWO* wrecks on it: One was
a guy who, if he'd have lived to blow a breathalyzer test, would have
showed a BAC that would indicate "This guy should be dead - or at least
comatose" continued straight when he should have steered left, crashed
through the guard-rail (cops estimated he was probably doing over 90 MPH
at impact) and pinballed off several oak trees to land in the lake at
the bottom of the several-hundred-foot embankment. The other was a car
vs deer that splattered the deer over a quarter of a mile or so of
pavement, rendered the car undrivable, and gave the driver a "free" ride
to the emergency room with a broken wrist. Cops estimated 50 MPH. She
later "corrected" that figure to something closer to 60.

As I said: It's about quick, easy money. "Safety" is just the rallying
cry of the people looking to rake in that easy money.

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or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
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gfulton - 03 Feb 2006 13:47 GMT
snippage

> As I said: It's about quick, easy money. "Safety" is just the rallying
> cry of the people looking to rake in that easy money.

And that, folks, is an absolutely accurate representation of the situation
across the entire USA.  It's nothing more than revenue enhancement.
Dan_Thomas_nospam@yahoo.com - 03 Feb 2006 15:21 GMT
>> As I said: It's about quick, easy money. "Safety" is just the rallying
>> cry of the people looking to rake in that easy money.

>And that, folks, is an absolutely accurate representation of the situation
>across the entire USA.  It's nothing more than revenue enhancement.

         All that sounds good unless you are the one who lost your
wife or husband or child to the idiocy of a speeder. People forget that
there are physics at work here: doubling the speed (and we see it
around here) means that it will take a minimum of four times the
distance to stop; add the brake fade, and it gets longer. Add the
reaction time, and it's longer yet. Even just 20% over limit lengthens
the stop by almost 50%. And too many think their big expensive SUVs can
stop quicker than other "ordinary" vehicles. Those make the most
spectacular crashes.
       We are seeing some horrific accidents here in Alberta, many due
to speed or to similar stupidity by the same guys who speed. Oil and
gas are so big here right now and there's so much money to be made that
everyone's in a hurry. My wife has been threated by speeders and
tailgaters every morning, guys passing in the fog on double solid
lines, and their arrogance is breathtaking. An 18-year-old girl lost
her life here three weeks ago to one of these drivers.

         Go ahead. Speed. Until someday in one brief instant you
realize it really was dumb...

           Dan

      Dan
N8N - 03 Feb 2006 15:42 GMT
Dan_Thomas_nos...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> As I said: It's about quick, easy money. "Safety" is just the rallying
> >> cry of the people looking to rake in that easy money.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>           Go ahead. Speed. Until someday in one brief instant you
> realize it really was dumb...

If you really believe that *speed* is the problem, you've bought into
the Joan Claybrook propaganda that has allowed our roads to slip from
some of the safest in the world to just about average.  Speed is one of
the least of our problems; at pretty much any highway speed (even in
compliance with current speed limits) a wreck has the potential to be
fatal.  The trick is to get drivers to drive in such a manner that they
don't wreck in the first place.

nate
Lawrence Glickman - 03 Feb 2006 16:24 GMT
>Dan_Thomas_nos...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> As I said: It's about quick, easy money. "Safety" is just the rallying
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
>nate

You can die at 35 miles/hour.  If/when you meet a vehicle coming from
the other direction, the impact is now 70 miles/hour.  You're dead, or
seriously FUBAR.

Or even if you just hit a stationary object, there are so many
variables, that it is impossible to calculate them all.  But I have
seen wrecks/accidents right after they happened, and because of the
crush zones, people have to be cut out of their vehicles by the fire
dept. jaws of life.  Many times having to take the entire roof off the
vehicle.

In my situation, I have no window handles.  Windows are all electric.
So, say they are rolled up at time of impact, and doors won't open.  I
have to get Out in case the vehicle is going to catch on fire...and
yes I've seen that happen, and in a matter of 3 minutes we had a
burning inferno, and nothing left but a frame and smoke.

At least carry a window breaker and seat belt slasher.  Worry about
your broken leg LATER when you are away from the car watching it burn
from a distance.

Lg
Dan_Thomas_nospam@yahoo.com - 03 Feb 2006 18:07 GMT
>You can die at 35 miles/hour.  If/when you meet a vehicle coming from
>the other direction, the impact is now 70 miles/hour.  You're dead, or
>seriously FUBAR.

         That isn't the point. The point is that high speeds allow
little or no room for errors, either yours or the other guy's.
Cornering, braking and impact forces all rise by the square of the
increase in speed, too, so that the chances of survival decrease
markedly with higher speeds.
         You can speed if you want. But if you hit me or a family
member because your speed was too high, you can kiss goodbye most of
what you own and almost everything you earn henceforth. Insurance
companies prefer to walk away from violators, or else they pay then sue
the perpetrator.

        Dan
N8N - 03 Feb 2006 18:33 GMT
> >You can die at 35 miles/hour.  If/when you meet a vehicle coming from
> >the other direction, the impact is now 70 miles/hour.  You're dead, or
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> increase in speed, too, so that the chances of survival decrease
> markedly with higher speeds.

The same can be said of a wreck at the legal speed limit, so your
comment is a non sequitur.  The legal speed limit on an Interstate
highway is and has been high enough that they require "little room for
errors" since the beginning of the Interstate highway system - i.e. a
mistake has the potential to be fatal.

On the flip side, the cornering, braking, etc. limits of the average
modern vehicle are rarely reached even at highly illegal speeds.  The
average driver becomes uncomfortable over about 0.3G in any direction,
whereas most passenger cars can corner and brake in the 0.8-1.0G range
(even the "worst" SUVs can still corner and brake at 0.6G or
thereabouts.)  It's really a driver issue more than anything else.
We'd all be much safer if drivers were properly trained to a) pay
attention to what they are doing and b) know and be able to use their
vehicle to the limit if/when another driver's inattention calls for it.

If one were to follow your line of reasoning to its logical conclusion,
we would say that semi-trucks, say, should be limited to 35 MPH or
thereabouts because at that speed they are reaching the same percentage
of their cornering limit as a passenger car at 65 MPH (I'm handwaving,
but hopefully you see my point.)  The truth is, however, that as long
as the limits of the vehicle aren't approached, and everyone pays
attention and drives in a manner respectful of other drivers, there's
no decrease in safety as speeds increase.  Or in other words, assuming
a clear field of vision, if a corner can be navigated at the absolute
limits of a car's traction at 80 MPH, the driver of that car really
isn't going to be any measurable amount safer taking the corner at 30
MPH as opposed to 45 MPH (in fact, he might be *less* safe at 30 MPH as
he's opening himself up to the possibility of being rear-ended by
faster traffic.)

nate
Lawrence Glickman - 03 Feb 2006 18:47 GMT
>>You can die at 35 miles/hour.  If/when you meet a vehicle coming from
>>the other direction, the impact is now 70 miles/hour.  You're dead, or
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>         Dan

then, you REALLY don't want to get into a vehicular accident with me.

Because I own nothing, and earn nothing.  Your net gain...less than
Zero.

Regards,

Lg
Alex Rodriguez - 03 Feb 2006 20:21 GMT
>          That isn't the point. The point is that high speeds allow
>little or no room for errors, either yours or the other guy's.

That is not true.  good habits allow you to increase the time you have to
react to what is going on around you.

>Cornering, braking and impact forces all rise by the square of the
>increase in speed, too, so that the chances of survival decrease
>markedly with higher speeds.

True.  But going faster does not necessarily increase your risk of crashing.

>          You can speed if you want. But if you hit me or a family
>member because your speed was too high, you can kiss goodbye most of
>what you own and almost everything you earn henceforth. Insurance
>companies prefer to walk away from violators, or else they pay then sue
>the perpetrator.

Instead of worrying about you will do when your family crashes, you should be
more concerned with teaching your family members how to drive so that they
don't crash.  
--------------
Alex

pakeha@not.a.real.address.com - 04 Feb 2006 00:10 GMT
>          You can speed if you want. But if you hit me or a family
>member because your speed was too high, you can kiss goodbye most of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>         Dan

Here is a simple proposition, have you, and your family, stay in
the right lane.  If you don't want to speed, stay the f.ck out of
our way.  Simple... Right lane for w.nkers who can't handle the
speed, left lane for the normals...

SteveL
JazzMan - 04 Feb 2006 01:50 GMT
> >You can die at 35 miles/hour.  If/when you meet a vehicle coming from
> >the other direction, the impact is now 70 miles/hour.  You're dead, or
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> companies prefer to walk away from violators, or else they pay then sue
> the perpetrator.

Most of Europe has much higher speed limits than we do
here, yet their accident rate is lower than ours in
spite of higher average speeds. So, that pretty much
rules out speed alone as being a factor in causing
accidents, or, if anything, demonstrates that higher
speeds are actually safer.   :)

JazzMan

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Theodrake - 06 Feb 2006 21:20 GMT
> Most of Europe has much higher speed limits than we do
> here, yet their accident rate is lower than ours in
> spite of higher average speeds. So, that pretty much
> rules out speed alone as being a factor in causing
> accidents, or, if anything, demonstrates that higher
> speeds are actually safer.   :)

Or it demonstrates that in those countries with higher speeds they have
better, on average, drivers then we do in the US. Or it demonstrates
that they spend more per mile in building their highways. Or it
demonstrates that they build their highways smarter. Or it demonstrates
that they have laws to get death traps off of the highway.
Eric B. - 03 Feb 2006 15:45 GMT
>>And that, folks, is an absolutely accurate representation of the situation
>>across the entire USA.  It's nothing more than revenue enhancement.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
>       Dan

Dan - speed is not the problem.  The German autobahn is much safer than any
Interstate highway in North America.  While Montana had no speed limits,
their death rates were actually LOWER than the first few years after speed
limits were posted again.  The problem is, in a nutshell, speed limits are
usually set to maximize BOTH carnage and income.  While having NO speed
limit isn't a great solution, that is actually a bit safer as it leads to
less differences in the speeds that most vehicles travel.  That is, while
the safest speed might be 80MPH on a given road, SOME vehicles will slow
down to 55, if that is the way that the road is (under) posted.  This causes
lots of traffic bunch-ups, dangerous lane changes and passes (to get out of
the traffic bunch-ups), and the end result is that more people die because
the speed limit is improperly set.  Without the speed limit, some idiots
might do 120MPH on the same road, and that's OK, as the net result is fewer
deaths, though you will have some that happen at extreme speeds, obviously.

People like to lobby for lower speed limits because they think it saves
lives.  In some cases, that is true.  But raising the speed limit in many
cases will ALSO save lives.  There is no magic number, like "55 saves
lives".  Every road is different.  Many would be safest if they were posted
at 75-85MPH.  Those SAME roads are LESS SAFE posted at 55 or 65MPH.  -Dave
Alex Rodriguez - 03 Feb 2006 20:17 GMT
> All that sounds good unless you are the one who lost your
>wife or husband or child to the idiocy of a speeder.

Makes no difference.  Idiot drivers are going to do stupid things no matter
what the law says.  

>People forget that
>there are physics at work here: doubling the speed (and we see it
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>stop quicker than other "ordinary" vehicles. Those make the most
>spectacular crashes.

True, hitting the brakes his not always the best way to avoid an accident.
Steering around an obstacle or accelerating are also tools you need to
use to be a safe driver.

>        We are seeing some horrific accidents here in Alberta, many due
>to speed or to similar stupidity by the same guys who speed.

You also see many so called speeders who safely drive with no accidents.  
Speeding by itself does not make a dangerous driver.  There are amny idiots
behind the wheel who will religiously driver the speed on the speed limit
sign.

>Oil and
>gas are so big here right now and there's so much money to be made that
>everyone's in a hurry. My wife has been threated by speeders and
>tailgaters every morning, guys passing in the fog on double solid
>lines, and their arrogance is breathtaking. An 18-year-old girl lost
>her life here three weeks ago to one of these drivers.

Maybe your wife needs to learn to KRETP.
------------
Alex
 
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