Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / February 2006
Soon speeding will not be possible...
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Steve W. - 29 Jan 2006 03:48 GMT http://www.americanprowler.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9327
Make Speeding Impossible? By Eric Peters Published 1/26/2006 12:07:35 AM
Like tearing off that sticker on mattresses that warns us not to "under penalty of law," most of us don't pay much attention to speed limits. Five to ten over is the rule, not the exception -- as any survey of average traffic speeds will confirm. We vote with our right foot every time we get behind the wheel, countermanding the diktats of the local bureaucrats who erect limits well below what large majorities (better than 85 percent, if you want an actual figure based upon actual traffic surveys) of us consider reasonable rates of travel.
But what if driving faster than our masters want us to became an impossibility?
For years, this has been The Dream of safety-badger types, who equate any deviance from often arbitrarily set posted speed limits with mowing down small children in a gigantic SUV with really loud mufflers, one hand on the wheel, the other clutching a half-empty fifth of Jack Daniel's. They pushed for mechanical governors (which never flew) and even managed, briefly, to get a law passed that required all new cars to be fitted with speedometers that read no faster than 85 mph (really).
Now, however, the technology exists for a great leap forward -- or backward, depending on your point of view.
The Canadians are testing out a system that pairs onboard Global Positioning Satellite (GPS) technology with a digital speed limit map. It works very much like the in-car GPS navigation systems that have become so common on late model cars -- but with a twist. Instead of helping you find a destination, the system prevents you from driving any faster than the posted speed limit of the road you happen to be on.
As in a conventional GPS-equipped car or truck, the system knows what road you happen to be on, as well as the direction you're traveling. And the information is continuously updating as you move. But in addition to this, the system also acquires information about the speed limit on each road, as you drive. Once your vehicle reaches that limit, the car's computer makes it increasingly difficult to go any faster. (See TopStories for more details.)
And unlike in years past, when a clumsy mechanical device would be used to physically prevent the gas pedal from being depressed all the way (or the carburetor's throttle plates opened fully), vehicle speed can be easily (and much more thoroughly) limited by a modern car's onboard electronics. Indeed, a few new cars -- mostly powerful sports cars -- already have what's known as a "valet key" that's used to significantly cut back available power at the owner's discretion.
But in this case, the cutting back would be controlled by Big Momma -- and "I can't drive 55" a toothless battle cry from a bygone era.
Ten vehicles equipped with this technology are currently being tested in the Ottawa area; if the trial is "successful," a wider series of tests is planned -- and it's a sure bet the entire thing will eventually be the object of a very strong-armed push to make it mandatory equipment in every new car. It will be sold as a "safety" measure -- just like the 55-mph National Maximum Speed Limit was in this country.
And they may just get away with it -- notwithstanding that nine out of ten of us routinely "speed," a pretty strong indicator of our respect for posted limits and the wisdom of those who set them.
Why isn't anyone asking -- if current speed limits are so sensible, why do so many of us disobey them routinely? Wouldn't it make more sense to adjust speed limits so that they reflect a more reasonable consensus (based upon how we actually drive) rather than constantly push for new ways to compel compliance with limits that most of us clearly think are too low?
Bear in mind that for 20-plus years, we were relentlessly nagged by the self-styled "safety lobby" (and its profiteers in the insurance industry) that to exceed the sainted 55 mph limit was "dangerous speeding" that put ourselves and others at risk. Yet when Congress finally repealed the 55 mph limit in '95 -- and most states raised their highway limits to 65, 70, even 75 mph in some cases -- there was no increase in accident/fatality rates. Clearly, the 55 mph limit was inappropriately low -- and the millions of tickets issued for "speeding" based upon it completely unjustified (if by "justification" one means legitimate safety-related reasons).
The same is true on countless secondary roads -- under-posted limits that are routinely ignored by most drivers -- enforced by radar traps and "justified" on the basis of "safety" even though we're well-aware that driving five or ten mph faster than many of these posted limits has no bearing whatever on safety, just like driving 65 or 70-something mph under the old 55 mph NMSL.
But Canada's little experiment could bring a screeching halt to all that -- literally. Dumbed-down limits -- and dumbed-down driving -- would become much more than the law of the land. They would become an inescapable way of life.
And don't think that it would stop at the border, either. Those always-on Daytime Running Lamps most new cars come equipped with used to be a Canada-only deal, too. The corseted minions of Joan Claybrook (the Carter-era airbag nag who was a fervent booster of the 55 mph NMSL) are surely watching Canada's experiment with great interest, tapping their spindly fingers together as they contemplate the PR campaign they'll launch to stuff it down our gullets a couple of years hence.
So enjoy your furtive law-breaking while you still can. Very soon, Big Momma may be doing a lot more than just watching you.
Eric Peters is an automotive columnist and author of Automotive Atrocities: Cars We Love to Hate (MBI).
Lawrence Glickman - 29 Jan 2006 04:43 GMT >http://www.americanprowler.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9327 > [quoted text clipped - 109 lines] >http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups >----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Oh good. The end of speeding tickets forever. "Your honor, I couldn't have POSSIBLY been exceeding the speed limit as Officer DumFvck has stated, because my car is =incapable= of doing that."
Municipalities that depend on speeding tickets for REVENUE are not going to like this, and expect the trucking industry to step in big time.
Lg
Richard Bell - 30 Jan 2006 02:33 GMT >Oh good. The end of speeding tickets forever. >"Your honor, I couldn't have POSSIBLY been exceeding the speed limit [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >going to like this, and expect the trucking industry to step in big >time. The trucking industry may not actually care. It is the people that refuse to hire truckers that actually drive to the regs that will complain. Them and the independants who depend on them for their livelihood.
=AB Paul =BB - 29 Jan 2006 04:51 GMT > http://www.americanprowler.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9327 > > Make Speeding Impossible? > By Eric Peters > Published 1/26/2006 12:07:35 AM (worthless words snipped)
> speeding" that put ourselves and others at risk. Yet when Congress > finally repealed the 55 mph limit in '95 -- and most states raised their [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > based upon it completely unjustified (if by "justification" one means > legitimate safety-related reasons). (worthless words snipped)
IMO, Eric Peters wrote this article simply to earn a paycheck. It is poorly thought out, much too wordy, and has no relevance to the real world.
Al Bundy - 29 Jan 2006 13:56 GMT «» wrote:
> > http://www.americanprowler.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9327 > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > It is poorly thought out, much too wordy, and has no relevance > to the real world. Maybe such a concept would work for school busses on prescribed routes. Nobody speeds more than those folks around here. Or at least GPS track them to clamp down. They stop for the RR tracks, but not yellow lights and sometimes not even pedestrians.
spamTHISbrp@yahoo.com - 30 Jan 2006 14:26 GMT The TAXATION use of GPS technology is much more likel;y to actually occurr.
-Dave
Alex Rodriguez - 30 Jan 2006 19:25 GMT >The TAXATION use of GPS technology is much more likel;y to actually >occurr. GPS antennas break can break. The GPS reciever might not get a signal from the satellite. I can also see a tiny transmitter that fools the device to think you are in the part of the world with no speed limit. Low power so that it would not affect any other cars. ------------- Alex
William S. Hubbard - 30 Jan 2006 21:02 GMT I'm sure someone is already working on it.
William S. Hubbard - 30 Jan 2006 17:21 GMT Get an older car and restore it..
D - 02 Feb 2006 03:47 GMT Speed limits are posted because it's been decided by state or local governments that anything faster is unsafe. Sometimes it's a rational decision (people have been injured or killed on that stretch of highway at faster speeds), while many fewew instances are the result of a vocal minority.
Most police work to enforce the law because they have better things to do than pick your body parts off the highway and put them in a body bag (or those of other bystanders, such as pedestrians or other drivers). I drive 40,000 miles a year on congested NJ roadways from local roads to major insterstates. I see too many near misses and reckless drivers to respect the views and snide, unprofessional remarks of this article.
I believe legal leniency is required, but reckless driving is still a deadly issue in the US. Respect the law and the law enforcers. Many of them understand a genuine mistake (they drive private vehicles, too)...but they will condemn someone who is ready to argue and lacks respect for traffic laws.
>http://www.americanprowler.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9327 > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >even managed, briefly, to get a law passed that required all new cars to >be fitted with speedometers that read no faster than 85 mph (really). Don Bruder - 02 Feb 2006 04:07 GMT > Speed limits are posted because it's been decided by state or local > governments that anything faster is unsafe. Try again. Here's a hint: Speed limits are posted because it's quick, easy money by the bushel basket-load for local coffers.
> Sometimes it's a rational > decision (people have been injured or killed on that stretch of > highway at faster speeds) So what? "Think of it as evolution in action" applies nicely here, too.
 Signature Don Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist, or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow" somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
Hugo Schmeisser - 02 Feb 2006 04:34 GMT > > Speed limits are posted because it's been decided by state or local > > governments that anything faster is unsafe. > > Try again. Here's a hint: Speed limits are posted because it's quick, > easy money by the bushel basket-load for local coffers. There is a provincial highway (not limited access) fairly near my place. A long section of it was upgraded and straightened a few years ago. The speed limit before and after was 80km/h (50 mph).
Instantly, the cops were there with their radar guns, picking off speeders doing just over 100km/h (62mph). They were really raking it in (and still are, even now).
The local media then got involved on account of driver outrage. At one point they interviewed the chief engineer who headed the highway redesign. He said that the highway had been designed for a natural cruising speed of 100km/h, and that the decision to sign it at 80 was a political one.
He said it was no wonder so many people were driving 100, as that was what was supposed to feel "natural" on that particular road. It could have easily been designed to feel right at 80, but they were told to build it for 100.
So what does this mean? The cops were ticketing drivers who were driving the DESIGN SPEED of the highway! The speed limit had nothing to do with safety at all, but some other motive instead. A dirty trick that makes me want to hate cops.
And no, they've never got me. Yet...
Don Bruder - 02 Feb 2006 10:32 GMT > > > Speed limits are posted because it's been decided by state or local > > > governments that anything faster is unsafe. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > do with safety at all, but some other motive instead. A dirty trick > that makes me want to hate cops. Yep... We've got several places like that locally, and given the motivation to research it, I'd say it would be no major problem to find find dozens, if not hundreds, of others that are similar - WITHOUT having to leave the state to do it - One chunk of road I travel frequently is pegged for 45 MPH, despite the fact that, other than a roughly 3 mile section of near-chicanes that need to be taken at about 50 MPH, the 28 miles or so of it that I use most was obviously laid out to be (and easily can be, by anyone who didn't get their driver's license as a prize in a cereal box) driven at roughly 75 MPH. Typical speed, according to my observations as a driver going with the flow of traffic, runs between 55 and 65, and in the seven years I've been driving on it, I've seen or heard of exactly *TWO* wrecks on it: One was a guy who, if he'd have lived to blow a breathalyzer test, would have showed a BAC that would indicate "This guy should be dead - or at least comatose" continued straight when he should have steered left, crashed through the guard-rail (cops estimated he was probably doing over 90 MPH at impact) and pinballed off several oak trees to land in the lake at the bottom of the several-hundred-foot embankment. The other was a car vs deer that splattered the deer over a quarter of a mile or so of pavement, rendered the car undrivable, and gave the driver a "free" ride to the emergency room with a broken wrist. Cops estimated 50 MPH. She later "corrected" that figure to something closer to 60.
As I said: It's about quick, easy money. "Safety" is just the rallying cry of the people looking to rake in that easy money.
 Signature Don Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist, or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow" somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
gfulton - 03 Feb 2006 13:47 GMT snippage
> As I said: It's about quick, easy money. "Safety" is just the rallying > cry of the people looking to rake in that easy money. And that, folks, is an absolutely accurate representation of the situation across the entire USA. It's nothing more than revenue enhancement.
Dan_Thomas_nospam@yahoo.com - 03 Feb 2006 15:21 GMT >> As I said: It's about quick, easy money. "Safety" is just the rallying >> cry of the people looking to rake in that easy money.
>And that, folks, is an absolutely accurate representation of the situation >across the entire USA. It's nothing more than revenue enhancement. All that sounds good unless you are the one who lost your wife or husband or child to the idiocy of a speeder. People forget that there are physics at work here: doubling the speed (and we see it around here) means that it will take a minimum of four times the distance to stop; add the brake fade, and it gets longer. Add the reaction time, and it's longer yet. Even just 20% over limit lengthens the stop by almost 50%. And too many think their big expensive SUVs can stop quicker than other "ordinary" vehicles. Those make the most spectacular crashes. We are seeing some horrific accidents here in Alberta, many due to speed or to similar stupidity by the same guys who speed. Oil and gas are so big here right now and there's so much money to be made that everyone's in a hurry. My wife has been threated by speeders and tailgaters every morning, guys passing in the fog on double solid lines, and their arrogance is breathtaking. An 18-year-old girl lost her life here three weeks ago to one of these drivers.
Go ahead. Speed. Until someday in one brief instant you realize it really was dumb...
Dan
Dan
N8N - 03 Feb 2006 15:42 GMT Dan_Thomas_nos...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> As I said: It's about quick, easy money. "Safety" is just the rallying > >> cry of the people looking to rake in that easy money. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Go ahead. Speed. Until someday in one brief instant you > realize it really was dumb... If you really believe that *speed* is the problem, you've bought into the Joan Claybrook propaganda that has allowed our roads to slip from some of the safest in the world to just about average. Speed is one of the least of our problems; at pretty much any highway speed (even in compliance with current speed limits) a wreck has the potential to be fatal. The trick is to get drivers to drive in such a manner that they don't wreck in the first place.
nate
Lawrence Glickman - 03 Feb 2006 16:24 GMT >Dan_Thomas_nos...@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> As I said: It's about quick, easy money. "Safety" is just the rallying [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > >nate You can die at 35 miles/hour. If/when you meet a vehicle coming from the other direction, the impact is now 70 miles/hour. You're dead, or seriously FUBAR.
Or even if you just hit a stationary object, there are so many variables, that it is impossible to calculate them all. But I have seen wrecks/accidents right after they happened, and because of the crush zones, people have to be cut out of their vehicles by the fire dept. jaws of life. Many times having to take the entire roof off the vehicle.
In my situation, I have no window handles. Windows are all electric. So, say they are rolled up at time of impact, and doors won't open. I have to get Out in case the vehicle is going to catch on fire...and yes I've seen that happen, and in a matter of 3 minutes we had a burning inferno, and nothing left but a frame and smoke.
At least carry a window breaker and seat belt slasher. Worry about your broken leg LATER when you are away from the car watching it burn from a distance.
Lg
Dan_Thomas_nospam@yahoo.com - 03 Feb 2006 18:07 GMT >You can die at 35 miles/hour. If/when you meet a vehicle coming from >the other direction, the impact is now 70 miles/hour. You're dead, or >seriously FUBAR. That isn't the point. The point is that high speeds allow little or no room for errors, either yours or the other guy's. Cornering, braking and impact forces all rise by the square of the increase in speed, too, so that the chances of survival decrease markedly with higher speeds. You can speed if you want. But if you hit me or a family member because your speed was too high, you can kiss goodbye most of what you own and almost everything you earn henceforth. Insurance companies prefer to walk away from violators, or else they pay then sue the perpetrator.
Dan
N8N - 03 Feb 2006 18:33 GMT > >You can die at 35 miles/hour. If/when you meet a vehicle coming from > >the other direction, the impact is now 70 miles/hour. You're dead, or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > increase in speed, too, so that the chances of survival decrease > markedly with higher speeds. The same can be said of a wreck at the legal speed limit, so your comment is a non sequitur. The legal speed limit on an Interstate highway is and has been high enough that they require "little room for errors" since the beginning of the Interstate highway system - i.e. a mistake has the potential to be fatal.
On the flip side, the cornering, braking, etc. limits of the average modern vehicle are rarely reached even at highly illegal speeds. The average driver becomes uncomfortable over about 0.3G in any direction, whereas most passenger cars can corner and brake in the 0.8-1.0G range (even the "worst" SUVs can still corner and brake at 0.6G or thereabouts.) It's really a driver issue more than anything else. We'd all be much safer if drivers were properly trained to a) pay attention to what they are doing and b) know and be able to use their vehicle to the limit if/when another driver's inattention calls for it.
If one were to follow your line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, we would say that semi-trucks, say, should be limited to 35 MPH or thereabouts because at that speed they are reaching the same percentage of their cornering limit as a passenger car at 65 MPH (I'm handwaving, but hopefully you see my point.) The truth is, however, that as long as the limits of the vehicle aren't approached, and everyone pays attention and drives in a manner respectful of other drivers, there's no decrease in safety as speeds increase. Or in other words, assuming a clear field of vision, if a corner can be navigated at the absolute limits of a car's traction at 80 MPH, the driver of that car really isn't going to be any measurable amount safer taking the corner at 30 MPH as opposed to 45 MPH (in fact, he might be *less* safe at 30 MPH as he's opening himself up to the possibility of being rear-ended by faster traffic.)
nate
Lawrence Glickman - 03 Feb 2006 18:47 GMT >>You can die at 35 miles/hour. If/when you meet a vehicle coming from >>the other direction, the impact is now 70 miles/hour. You're dead, or [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Dan then, you REALLY don't want to get into a vehicular accident with me.
Because I own nothing, and earn nothing. Your net gain...less than Zero.
Regards,
Lg
Alex Rodriguez - 03 Feb 2006 20:21 GMT > That isn't the point. The point is that high speeds allow >little or no room for errors, either yours or the other guy's. That is not true. good habits allow you to increase the time you have to react to what is going on around you.
>Cornering, braking and impact forces all rise by the square of the >increase in speed, too, so that the chances of survival decrease >markedly with higher speeds. True. But going faster does not necessarily increase your risk of crashing.
> You can speed if you want. But if you hit me or a family >member because your speed was too high, you can kiss goodbye most of >what you own and almost everything you earn henceforth. Insurance >companies prefer to walk away from violators, or else they pay then sue >the perpetrator. Instead of worrying about you will do when your family crashes, you should be more concerned with teaching your family members how to drive so that they don't crash. -------------- Alex
pakeha@not.a.real.address.com - 04 Feb 2006 00:10 GMT > You can speed if you want. But if you hit me or a family >member because your speed was too high, you can kiss goodbye most of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Dan Here is a simple proposition, have you, and your family, stay in the right lane. If you don't want to speed, stay the f.ck out of our way. Simple... Right lane for w.nkers who can't handle the speed, left lane for the normals...
SteveL
JazzMan - 04 Feb 2006 01:50 GMT > >You can die at 35 miles/hour. If/when you meet a vehicle coming from > >the other direction, the impact is now 70 miles/hour. You're dead, or [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > companies prefer to walk away from violators, or else they pay then sue > the perpetrator. Most of Europe has much higher speed limits than we do here, yet their accident rate is lower than ours in spite of higher average speeds. So, that pretty much rules out speed alone as being a factor in causing accidents, or, if anything, demonstrates that higher speeds are actually safer. :)
JazzMan
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Theodrake - 06 Feb 2006 21:20 GMT > Most of Europe has much higher speed limits than we do > here, yet their accident rate is lower than ours in > spite of higher average speeds. So, that pretty much > rules out speed alone as being a factor in causing > accidents, or, if anything, demonstrates that higher > speeds are actually safer. :) Or it demonstrates that in those countries with higher speeds they have better, on average, drivers then we do in the US. Or it demonstrates that they spend more per mile in building their highways. Or it demonstrates that they build their highways smarter. Or it demonstrates that they have laws to get death traps off of the highway.
Eric B. - 03 Feb 2006 15:45 GMT >>And that, folks, is an absolutely accurate representation of the situation >>across the entire USA. It's nothing more than revenue enhancement. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Dan Dan - speed is not the problem. The German autobahn is much safer than any Interstate highway in North America. While Montana had no speed limits, their death rates were actually LOWER than the first few years after speed limits were posted again. The problem is, in a nutshell, speed limits are usually set to maximize BOTH carnage and income. While having NO speed limit isn't a great solution, that is actually a bit safer as it leads to less differences in the speeds that most vehicles travel. That is, while the safest speed might be 80MPH on a given road, SOME vehicles will slow down to 55, if that is the way that the road is (under) posted. This causes lots of traffic bunch-ups, dangerous lane changes and passes (to get out of the traffic bunch-ups), and the end result is that more people die because the speed limit is improperly set. Without the speed limit, some idiots might do 120MPH on the same road, and that's OK, as the net result is fewer deaths, though you will have some that happen at extreme speeds, obviously.
People like to lobby for lower speed limits because they think it saves lives. In some cases, that is true. But raising the speed limit in many cases will ALSO save lives. There is no magic number, like "55 saves lives". Every road is different. Many would be safest if they were posted at 75-85MPH. Those SAME roads are LESS SAFE posted at 55 or 65MPH. -Dave
Alex Rodriguez - 03 Feb 2006 20:17 GMT > All that sounds good unless you are the one who lost your >wife or husband or child to the idiocy of a speeder. Makes no difference. Idiot drivers are going to do stupid things no matter what the law says.
>People forget that >there are physics at work here: doubling the speed (and we see it [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >stop quicker than other "ordinary" vehicles. Those make the most >spectacular crashes. True, hitting the brakes his not always the best way to avoid an accident. Steering around an obstacle or accelerating are also tools you need to use to be a safe driver.
> We are seeing some horrific accidents here in Alberta, many due >to speed or to similar stupidity by the same guys who speed. You also see many so called speeders who safely drive with no accidents. Speeding by itself does not make a dangerous driver. There are amny idiots behind the wheel who will religiously driver the speed on the speed limit sign.
>Oil and >gas are so big here right now and there's so much money to be made that >everyone's in a hurry. My wife has been threated by speeders and >tailgaters every morning, guys passing in the fog on double solid >lines, and their arrogance is breathtaking. An 18-year-old girl lost >her life here three weeks ago to one of these drivers. Maybe your wife needs to learn to KRETP. ------------ Alex
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