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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / February 2006Hooking up dual igition coil.
I came across this dual coil and dual ignition module kit. The price is around a thousand dollar. This sound way too expensive. I want to build one for my own vehicle but I not sure if the secondary output of the two coils should be tied together. For instance, if I tie the secondary port together would I achieve a bigger spark? I would need some help on this part. How should I hooked this up so that it'll work reliably? http://www.quickcar.net/ign_sys/ign_sys.html Thanks | dual ignition module kit must be for @least 8 cylinders | around a thousand dollar. 1 can buy 2 separate sets for less. No detail of coil ( # of turns ), circuit ( inductive, capacitive discharge ), output voltage & ampere graph, input ampere needed. The Ford Escort HCS 1.1 & 1.3 litre engine uses a double dual output distributorless system. In these systems one cylinder will be on firing stroke with the other cylinder on its exhaust stroke. The Escort is wired so that cylinders 1&4 fire together with cylinder1 firing cylinder4 exhaust. Cylinders 2&3 fire together on the alternate period of the ignition module operation. The firing order is 1-2-4-3. Therefore cylinder 2 will be ready to fire after cylinder 1. 1F-2C-4E-3I. 1E-2F-4I-3C. 1I-2E-4C-3F. 1C-2I-4F-3E. 1F-2C-4E-3I. and so on again. Bobscar. > The Ford Escort HCS 1.1 & 1.3 litre engine uses a double dual output > distributorless system. In these systems one cylinder will be on firing > stroke with the other cylinder on its exhaust stroke. The Escort is Wasted Spark ignition system. Common on a lot of engines. This isn't what the OP is asking about. What he referenced is a dual plug/dual ignition system. But as another poster asked, what for? Unless you are racing and have a real need for redundancy it will buy you almost nothing. This also requires a head that has two spark plug holes. This buys one redundancy and the added benefit of two flame fronts in the cylinder. The OP wants to have two coils discharge into a single plug. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by doing this. I can think of a lot of complications in attempting to do this, with nothing to be gained except a lot of RFI and probably a few electrical shocks. 1 aussie tv program ( Beyond 2000 ) had filmed a spark plug made by scientists in Israel, which uses an * principle : [i] +ve electrode is shaped as a needle [ii] -ve electrode is a round cylinder extended from this plug's mounting thread ( which spins into & grips engine's cylinder head ), has 2 8mmØ holes ( 1 on each opposite side of this -ve electrode's cylinder ) to enable a side-view of sparks. When electrons jump from +ve to the round edge of -ve electrode , an * is produced : * pushes ignited fuel toward piston & ignites fuel vapour just above piston ( furthest from +ve electrode ) faster than ordinary combustion can, & so produce a faster burn & more torque than ordinary combustion can. Has any1 seen such a plug on sale ? Has any racer modified his plugs like this ? > 1 aussie tv program ( Beyond 2000 ) had filmed a spark plug made > by scientists in Israel, which uses an * principle : [i] +ve electrode [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Has any1 seen such a plug on sale ? Has any racer modified his > plugs like this ? You mean similar to this one? http://www.hoppenmotorsport.com/Spark_Plugs.jpg If not what is different than this? I don't think he means those plugs. What he's describing sounds like its designed to have some sort of a 'jet' produced that will shoot towards the piston. Having trouble picturing the setup, but I am familiar with the principle the described plugs are supposed to be exploiting. Dinna think the effect will be large, though. Dave mysterios ( Mr know all ) get no info fr me >The OP wants to have two coils discharge into a single plug. There is >absolutely nothing to be gained by doing this. It's sometimes used on auto engines converted for aircraft use, where there's no possible or practical way of installing a second plug in the head. In those systems, there's a plastic block for each plug wire attached to the firewall, and two inputs from the distributors into each block. Inside the block, there are three electrodes in close proximity but not touching, and the spark from each coil jumps from its electrode to the plug wire electrode. Often one system is turned off since it's only there for redundancy, not a hotter spark. Airplanes don't fly well if the ignition quits, so a second spark source is handy. Wiring coil outputs in parallel doesn't raise spark voltage but might increase the current a bit if both are timed *exactly* the same, which is unlikely. Two plugs will increase power if done right. It does in an aircraft engine. Two flame fronts raise the pressure a little faster than one, but we're also talking pretty big combustion chambers compared to an auto's. Dual ignition retrofits sound to me to be one of those snob-value things that does little more than make money for the aftermarket goodies guys. Dan > I came across this dual coil and dual ignition module kit. The price is > around a thousand dollar. This sound way too expensive. I want to build [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Thanks What kind of race car do you have? None?? Dont waste your money. --Still working on the flame thrower, eh? Maybe you could find some more input at the pyro tribe? That's where I've been learning how to do this sort of thing..  Signature"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Woohoo! Cheney sez Hacking the Trailing Edge! : lawyer season's open! http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm ---Decks a-wash in a sea of words--- > I came across this dual coil and dual ignition module kit. The price is > around a thousand dollar. This sound way too expensive. I want to build > one for my own vehicle but I not sure if the secondary output of the two > coils should be tied together. Good grief. Like I said in another thread... put DOWN the harbor freight crimp tool and step AWAY from the car. You're gonna hurt yourself. Or at least learn HOW dual ignition works before you start trying to hack one together!!! > I came across this dual coil and dual ignition module kit. The price is > around a thousand dollar. This sound way too expensive. I want to build [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Thanks >From that site: 125° Celsius cross linked Polyethylene Insulated Wire I say it's bogus. Who needs wire that's rated slightly above boiling water? Give me silicone! I had a central spark plug in my Derbi DS 50 so I broke off the electrode, added a stainless ball electrode to the piston, and sparked from plug to piston. I can't say if it actually made the bike faster but it was a clean concept and a fun project. With a higher tension system it might have made some improvement, but then hotter sparks usually do, don't they? Doug Goncz Replikon Research Falls Church, VA 22044-0394 --Hey that's neat if a little weird! Wouldn't it dissipate the charge thru the engine that way? Signature"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Woohoo! Cheney sez Hacking the Trailing Edge! : lawyer season's open! http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm ---Decks a-wash in a sea of words--- Hey, there Ed. Yes, the whole engine is one big ground block. Doug Goncz Replikon Research Falls Church, VA 22044-0394 > I had a central spark plug in my Derbi DS 50 so I broke off the > electrode, added a stainless ball electrode to the piston, and sparked [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Replikon Research > Falls Church, VA 22044-0394 Woudn't this restrict your ignition timing to always have to be very near TDC? I guess it would depend on how long the crank arm was and how much travel there is in 20-30* or crank movement at the top of the arc. JW JW asked if the piston electrode limited timing to near TDC. Well, 2-strokes have timing near TDC, I think. 4-strokes use advance. But still, with a gap of 0.30 conceivable, and a crank arm throw radius of, say, 3 inches, that's 100:1. Now, the cos function is changing near 0 at around 1:100 per degree. So, yes, it does seem that one degree of throw could limit spark to very near TDC. Does anyone disagree? I am not so experienced working this type of thing out. My little 2-strok <DGoncz@aol.com> wrote in message . > Does anyone disagree? I am not so experienced working this type of > thing out. > > My little 2-strok I haven't done the math, but intuitively I see no other way than that the spark has to be rather near TDC when using this sort of configuration. On a lot of little 2 and 4 stroke cycle engines, the timing is static and there is no advance provision as they are intended to be run in a rather narrow rpm range. Advance would be desirable on either type of engine if you wanted to optimize the performance over a wider rpm band. |
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