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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / September 2006Ford voltage leak is like mystery novel. Please read.
A couple months ago my '89 Thunderbird wouldn't start. So it was towed to the dealership and was "fixed" by replacing the starter. I was told that everything else was fine. Two weeks later the car won't start...replaced the firewall mounted celinoid and put in a fresh battery. Two weeks later car won't start...replaced battery cables from the starter to the celinoid AND the celinoid to the battery (2 wires). TODAY the car would not start...tightened the battery cables and drove to the autoparts store and did another electrical systems check. The test read that everything is fine, but the battery performance was terrible. So I took the battery out and had them run a diagnostic on IT. Turns out that the battery is fine...with over 525 cranking amps and 13 volts MY POINT: I think that there is still something in the cars' electrical loop that is stealing away electricity...maybe the ignition or some wire that is grounding out (?) your comments are welcome. Thanks. Umm, you forgot to mention the ground cables.... A bad ground will cause your symptoms. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > A couple months ago my '89 Thunderbird wouldn't start. So it was towed > to [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > that is > grounding out (?) your comments are welcome. Thanks. > A couple months ago my '89 Thunderbird wouldn't start. So it was towed > to [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > that is > grounding out (?) your comments are welcome. Thanks. "frank wight" wrote: '89 Thunderbird Two months ago car wouldn't start It was towed to the dealership who replaced the starter. Two weeks later the car wouldn't start... Replaced the solenoid and the battery. Two weeks later car wouldn't start... Replaced cables from the starter to the solenoid and solenoid to battery. TODAY the car wouldn't start... Tightened the battery cables and drove to the autoparts store. Their diagnostic test shows battery is fine. Your comments are welcome. Thanks. __________________________________________________ It is difficult to guess at the problem with no description of the no-start conditions (No response at all, clicking but no cranking, slow cranking, cranking starves ignition, cranks but does not start, tries to start but quits, smells, sounds,etc.) Assuming that the engine actually cranks without starting, I would probably throw a new ignition module at the intermittent electrical problems described above. If that didn't do it, I would make a guess at the next most likely and least expensive direction to throw more money. And I would keep asking help from automotive newsgroups. While throwing parts and money, I would constantly balance my odds of success against paying a real mechanic $150 to diagnose the problem (plus the parts and labor to fix it.) Please post a more complete description of the symptoms. Someone here at rec.autos.tech probably has the answer. Good luck. Rodan. ________________________________________________ After reading these posts, I think I'll replace the negative cable to the battery since the car is 18 years old and 126,000 miles. The parts that were thrown out: Starter, selenoid, and battery WERE junky, so it's not like money is being wasted. I think that the positive battery cable I replaced was losing effectiveness because of age, heat and oil dripping on it. Nobody mentioned the transmission throw-out switch that lets the starter engage in idle or park. Do these switches wear out too? Thanks for your comments. If it cranks it ain't the switch. The switch merely feeds power to the relay. My car is 16 yrs old with 250K (orginal manual tranny) and hasn't eaten a starter yet and only one alternator. Damn piss of Jap sh.t. > "frank wight" wrote: '89 Thunderbird > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >Rodan. >________________________________________________ When You indicate "wouldn't start", I assume you mean that the battery does not have sufficient charge to start the engine, with this assumption in addition to any corrective action you must have recharged the battery or at least jumped it from another vehicles battery each time. If I am assuming correctly so far there may be a unknown source draining the battery when it is not running,( another assumption is that you verified the battery had normal charge when you shut off the car), to identify if there is a phantom load on the battery with the car shut off, disconnect the battery cables and measure the resistance between the two cable ends with an ohm meter (multmeter). Normally, It should read a very high resistance, maybe even an "open circuit" if you don't have dash clocks or other stuff that continues to run with the key off. If there is a "phantom load" draining the battery excessively when the key is off, it should read 100 ohms or lower, if the battery is becoming discharged overnight usually. If you discover this condition, try removing fuses one at a time to see if you can make the resistance go up when removing a certain fuse. If you don't make it change resistance via the fuses, try disconnecting the electrical leads on the alternator, again looking for the resistance to jump to a much higher reading (probably in the 1000 ohm or higher range). If the resistance is still low and doesn't change with any of the disconnects thus far you might have a chaffed wire partially shorting to the frame of the vehicle. You might try disconnecting the power wire from the fuse block which should eliminate all the fused assessorys and their associated wiring, leaving you with the wiring between the battery and the alternator as well as the ignition switch as the likely culprits. Hope this sort of made sense, in essence you are just disconnecting devices and their wiring from the main harness....while watching the resistance on the meter to see when/what device affects the reading. Good luck. Joe. Excellent post. Thanks for the procedure list Hey dillhole- where's your reply? These electrical problems can be nerve wracking. That solenoid that you probably replaced is the switch that connects the battery current to the starter. It is activated by the starter switch on the steering column. Occasionally they go bad, but Ford solenoids are usually pretty solid parts. The starter may, or may not, have been faulty. I suspect dealerships when they do this sort of thing. Clearly it did not solve your problem. Did they really 'replace' it, or did they fiddle around with new brushes and a halfassed overhaul. Lots of times a starter will fail to function when the bushings (bearings) are too loose. The starter 'drags', and it acts just like a bad connection or low battery. When this happens, new bushings (which should be a part of a proper overhaul) can solve all the problems. Your battery terminals, cable connectors, and cable ground need to be checked for good connection. If they are not good, they can give you a fit. The belts need to be tight and the alternator in good operating condition. A bad diode can cause you trouble, as can other internal problems. Slipping belts will cause you to lose charge, over time, too. You should check for leakage current from the battery when the car is not running and when all systems are turned off. If the leakage current is more than 50-100 milliamperes, you have something drawing excess current. There are lots of things that can cause your symptoms. Usually a competent mechanic can fix them up pretty fast. I have the feeling that your mechanic of choice is throwing parts at the car rather than finding out what is wrong. > Two weeks later the car won't start...replaced the firewall mounted > celinoid Solenoid. > Two weeks later car won't start...replaced battery cables from the > starter to the > celinoid AND the celinoid to the battery (2 wires). SOLENOID! > MY POINT: I think that there is still something in the cars' > electrical loop > that is stealing away electricity...maybe the ignition or some wire > that is > grounding out (?) your comments are welcome. Thanks. The only way to find problems like this is to be systematic. Remove a battery cable, and then put an ammeter or test light in series between the battery and the cable. If the test lamp lights or the ammeter shows current above a few milliamps (with the doors closed and the hood light disabled, obviously), then you've got a hidden current draw. Start removing fuses until it goes away. Remove the bulb in the trunk light to see if it's not going out when you close the trunk. Same for the underhood light. If you don't find a current draw, check the alternator. I don't see ANY mention of it having been properly checked. Charging a dead battery and putting it back in won't do any good if the alternator won't keep it charged. With the engine running, the voltage at the battery should be AT LEAST 13.8 volts and not over 15.0 volts. If its outside that range, either the alternator or the regulator is not functioning. > > Two weeks later the car won't start...replaced the firewall mounted > > celinoid > > Solenoid. He probably bought one that didn't come in a box on which that word would have been written. :) >> > Two weeks later the car won't start...replaced the firewall mounted >> > celinoid [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > He probably bought one that didn't come in a box on which that word > would have been written. :) Nah, he must be a Solene Dion fan.  SignatureAll relevant people are pertinent. All rude people are impertinent. Therefore, no rude people are relevant. -- Solomon W. Golomb Frank.....classic symptoms of a shorted diode in the alternator. The diodes only let current flow out of the alternator while the engine is running and prevent it from flowing the opposite direction when you shut the engine off. If one or more are shorted, everything will work fine, alternator will still charge, until you turn it off and the battery begins to drain back through the diodes. Signaturetxturbo http://www.automotiveforums.com Seen a stuck horn relay once. The owner must have disconnected the horn to stop the noise, but the relay coil was still energized by a shorted horn button wire and that coil drained the battery overnight. Does the horn on the OP's vehicle work normally? Dan |
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