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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / March 2006

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"without oil"

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fiveiron@webtv.net - 13 Mar 2006 18:48 GMT
take a what if situation, suppose I lost the oil from the oil pan on my
low-slung automobile due to hitting an object in the roadway that
punctured the crankcase and all the oil was lost.

what "additive" if had been added previously to the oil would have
prevented damage within reason from - seizure?

m h o
 v ƒe
 
Scott Dorsey - 13 Mar 2006 19:07 GMT
>take a what if situation, suppose I lost the oil from the oil pan on my
>low-slung automobile due to hitting an object in the roadway that
>punctured the crankcase and all the oil was lost.
>
>what "additive" if had been added previously to the oil would have
>prevented damage within reason from - seizure?

One that provided improved film strength.
--scott

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"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Steve W. - 14 Mar 2006 19:37 GMT
The same one that was used for the same protection back before the
catcon was in wide use.  zinc dialkyldithiophosphate. Only problem is
that is poisons the catcon in large amounts and can cause deposits on
the plugs and valves.

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Steve

> >take a what if situation, suppose I lost the oil from the oil pan on my
> >low-slung automobile due to hitting an object in the roadway that
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> One that provided improved film strength.
> --scott
HLS@nospam.nix - 15 Mar 2006 00:53 GMT
> The same one that was used for the same protection back before the
> catcon was in wide use.  zinc dialkyldithiophosphate. Only problem is
> that is poisons the catcon in large amounts and can cause deposits on
> the plugs and valves.

True.  But, nothing gives the equivalent protection compared to the
sulfur compounds.

Doesn't make a darn if the base stock is 'synthetic' or not.
N8N - 13 Mar 2006 19:08 GMT
> take a what if situation, suppose I lost the oil from the oil pan on my
> low-slung automobile due to hitting an object in the roadway that
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> m h o
>  v ƒe

An oil pressure gauge and a quick foot on the clutch.  Not sure
anything else would have worked.

nate
John S. - 13 Mar 2006 19:43 GMT
> take a what if situation, suppose I lost the oil from the oil pan on my
> low-slung automobile due to hitting an object in the roadway that
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> m h o
>  v ƒe

None.  If your car is that low slung it should have a metal guard added
to protect the pan.
jerryrigged@optonline.net - 13 Mar 2006 20:35 GMT
Loosing oil / oil pressure quickly leads to a catastrophic failure
regardless of what additive might have been in the oil.
Scott Dorsey - 13 Mar 2006 20:51 GMT
>Loosing oil / oil pressure quickly leads to a catastrophic failure
>regardless of what additive might have been in the oil.

Yes, but an oil with a higher film strength and higher breakdown temperature
will last a little longer when the oil circulation stops.  That might not
be enough, but it improves your odds a little bit.
--scott
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"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

marks542004@yahoo.com - 13 Mar 2006 21:25 GMT
if you are referring to things like "slick50" or whatever its called,
shown on tv running with no oil, I would NOT count on it in a real
situation.

Oil pressure guage and stop as soon as it goes low.
beerspill@whoever.com - 15 Mar 2006 06:16 GMT
> if you are referring to things like "slick50" or whatever its called,
> shown on tv running with no oil, I would NOT count on it in a real
> situation.

Consumer Reports tried to verify a claim made by Prolong where a person
drove a car  treated with Prolong forr 4 hours and 40 minutes without
oil and stopped only because she wanted to grab a bite to eat.  They
took a pair of factory rebuilt GM 3.4L V-6 engines, treated one with
Prolong, and ran with the oil plugs removed.  Both seized
simultaneously after just 13 minutes or 5 miles.
Al Bundy - 14 Mar 2006 01:39 GMT
> take a what if situation, suppose I lost the oil from the oil pan on my
> low-slung automobile due to hitting an object in the roadway that
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> m h o
>  v ƒe
Young friend of mine had an S-15 Blazer with the 2.8L I believe and was
heading downtown for a concert with friends. The power dropped on the
expressway and he noticed the cloud of smoke and oil on the tailgator's
windshields.(Big laugh over that.) They continued on about five miles
to the concert. They came out. It started and they headed for a gas
station to add oil. They added several quarts of oil two times and made
it back fifteen miles before the motor seized. They had more than a
ripped pan. They had a rod out the bottom. Amazing things can happen if
you are lucky.
I'm partial to STP no matter what others say. Unless it's an all out
emergency, when the red light comes on, the key goes off.
fiveiron@webtv.net - 14 Mar 2006 02:22 GMT
back when, before the ptfe craze, bardahl had an oil additive that I can
attest to it's merit.

this is a case where a limp-in mode provided by the bardahl additive
saved the day.

after knocking the drain plug out(losing the oil) in a 12 cylinder
graham-paige automobile w/bardhal additive in the crankcase -

it was able two travel 2-3 miles without any noticeable damage.

to my knowledge this product is no longer available - off the shelf.

m h o
 v ƒe
 
Steve - 14 Mar 2006 23:59 GMT
The "additive" that helped was an ultra low-compression low-RPM engine
with under-stressed bearings that could survive without pressure
lubrication. Hell, it might even have had poured babbitt bearings.
There's no comparison to a post 1960 engine.

> back when, before the ptfe craze, bardahl had an oil additive that I can
> attest to it's merit.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>  v ƒe
>    
Nate Nagel - 15 Mar 2006 01:16 GMT
Make that post-WW2; pretty much any auto engine designed after WW2 was a
high-compression, overhead-valve design with pressure lubrication.

nate

> The "additive" that helped was an ultra low-compression low-RPM engine
> with under-stressed bearings that could survive without pressure
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>> m h o  v ƒe
>>  

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http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Steve - 15 Mar 2006 19:18 GMT
Well, "high" compression in 1955 was still in the 9:1 range, but yeah.
Most manufacturers had thin shell-type steel-backed bearings and (except
for Chevrolet's 6) full-pressure lubrication by WWII.

> Make that post-WW2; pretty much any auto engine designed after WW2 was a
> high-compression, overhead-valve design with pressure lubrication.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>>> m h o  v ƒe
>>>  
John S. - 15 Mar 2006 01:04 GMT
> back when, before the ptfe craze, bardahl had an oil additive that I can
> attest to it's merit.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> m h o
>  v ƒe

Unless you ran another identical engine without Bardahl and oil there
is no way to tell whether that snake oil did any good.
Ad absurdum per aspera - 15 Mar 2006 01:24 GMT
Whatever one thinks of its virtues or vices as an additive, STP is a
good mnemonic. Safe place to stop, Turn off the key, and Pray you
haven't spun a bearing or seized or galled the heck out of anything in
the time it took to do even that.

Also STay off the Power, assuming you can get through traffic and come
to a safe place without it.  (Safety first -- live to buy another
engine.)

And you definitely shouldn't try driving off unless you know what the
problem is and can be positive that you've solved it.

It probably helps to have an engine that is more robust in these
regards (good luck figuring out which ones those are, besieds which,
prioritizing the ability to survive a low-probability failure is kind
of a goofy way to select a car).    Definitely helps to have quality
oil with a lot of shear strength at the molecular level and a good
ability to withstand temperature and a tendency to stick tenaciously to
metal.  

Cheers,
--Joe
HLS@nospam.nix - 15 Mar 2006 15:26 GMT
"Al Bundy" <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote in message
I'm partial to STP no matter what others say. Unless it's an all out
emergency, when the red light comes on, the key goes off.

There is some basis in fact in STP.  It is a high molecular weight
polyalphaolefin
(higher than the PAO's used in synthetic lubricants) and is known in the
lubrication industry for some of its unusual properties.
Scott Dorsey - 15 Mar 2006 16:40 GMT
>"Al Bundy" <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote in message
>I'm partial to STP no matter what others say. Unless it's an all out
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>(higher than the PAO's used in synthetic lubricants) and is known in the
>lubrication industry for some of its unusual properties.

Here is an important song about STP:

http://www.alternativetentacles.com/octopodes/617/iqYrD3USYjb0FhBii2J/Wesley_Wil
lis-STP_Conked_Out_M.mp3


I hope this song is informative to all of you.
--scott

Signature

"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

~^Johnny^~ - 29 Mar 2006 02:38 GMT
>take a what if situation, suppose I lost the oil from the oil pan on my
>low-slung automobile due to hitting an object in the roadway that
>punctured the crankcase and all the oil was lost.
>
>what "additive" if had been added previously to the oil would have
>prevented damage within reason from - seizure?

Manna from heaven.   :-)

Signature

 -john
           wide-open at throttle dot info

Oleg Lego - 29 Mar 2006 06:01 GMT
The ~^Johnny^~ entity posted thusly:

>>take a what if situation, suppose I lost the oil from the oil pan on my
>>low-slung automobile due to hitting an object in the roadway that
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Manna from heaven.   :-)

I woulda said "IQ points".
 
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