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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / April 2006

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Could this be done? (engine mod, remove two pistons)

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lee308@gmail.com - 15 Apr 2006 16:25 GMT
I'm considering buying a cheap high milage toyota or saturn 4cly/manual
tranny and trying to improve gas mileage.

My drive to work is 10 miles in the country. No stop and go.

If I was to remove two pistons and corrisponding
injectors/lifters/rods, etc. Cap off oil ports on the crankshaft. I
should get a 30-40% increase in mileage with, of course, a severe loss
of power.

Depending on which two pistons you remove, it will run smooth. I have
seen this happen by accident in another situation. (4 cly compressor
missing two pistons from the factory.)

All I need is 50mph.

I will also strip all the unused seats and dash to lose weight. No A/C.

Any thoughts?
HLS@nospam.nix - 15 Apr 2006 18:32 GMT
> I'm considering buying a cheap high milage toyota or saturn 4cly/manual
> tranny and trying to improve gas mileage.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Any thoughts?

I have seen something like that done.  Local mechanic's son was coming
to see his dad from a town some 60-70 miles away  He had his wife in an
old Dodge, when it developed a severe internal knock.

The kid dropped the pan, identified the problem, removed the piston and
connecting rod, and stuffed a rag up in the cylinder.  He made it home
with no problem, believe it or not.

Your idea would be a shadetree engineering job, but it wouldn't surprise
me at all if you could get it to run more or less okay.  You could
use some bob weights in place of the piston and rod assembly.

Disabling the valves would pretty much isolate the empty cylinders,
IF they seal reasonably well.

I hope you try it.  Let us know.
John S. - 15 Apr 2006 19:47 GMT
> I'm considering buying a cheap high milage toyota or saturn 4cly/manual
> tranny and trying to improve gas mileage.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Any thoughts?

Not worth the effort imho.  Even if you get the balance right, it will
take a certain amount of power (burned gasoline) to propel that car
forward.  Whether you burn that gas in 2 or 4 cylinders isn't going to
make that much difference over a 10 mile drive.  Also to consider is
that it will probably fail the emissions test.

Why not buy something like a used civic or corolla with a small motor
and get 35 mpg.
HLS@nospam.nix - 15 Apr 2006 23:01 GMT
> Not worth the effort imho.  Even if you get the balance right, it will
> take a certain amount of power (burned gasoline) to propel that car
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Why not buy something like a used civic or corolla with a small motor
> and get 35 mpg.

Probably right about the economy. I dont doubt he could make the
concept work, however.

FIL has a Sonoma with the small 4 cylinder engine, and it gets less than
20 mpg.  Our 3800 V6 26 mpg or better than that...BUT, the V6 cruises at
70 mph at about 1800-2000 rpm.

The I4 spins up to as much as 3500 rpm to maintain 55 mph on a steep
hill, and runs 2500 or better to do 70 on the flat and level.

Overall gear ratio, aerodynamics, engine management, and perhaps
other factors apparently have to work well together to get good mileage
and reasonable power.
lee308@gmail.com - 17 Apr 2006 14:28 GMT
Thanks for the input guys.

I'm not worried about an emissions test, my state does not have one.
(we can also own GUNS w/o a license!!)

Buying something defeats the purpose, to save money on gas. If I bought
a four thousand dollar vehicle to save .40cents/gallon, well do the
math. Payoff would be way down the road. (about 500 trips before I
started saving)

I'm already using a Honda 750 shadow that gets 50mpg, but come winter,
its damn cold.
It was not purchased for strickly saving gas, so the 3500 I paid for it
is not the same. (its one of my hobbies for 30 years)

A chevy lumina I had with the V6 aluminum engine regularly got 23-25mpg
to work, (30mpg on long trips.)

I don't believe there are any 2cly vehicles available in the states
that I know of. I would love to get a SMART car and tinker with it.
But, not available.

Of note, I was also thinking of putting a double flywheel (increase
weight somehow) If these little 4 clys were long stroke, I know it
would work. But the short stroke will really hurt the torque.

I respectfully disagree that the fuel milage would stay the same. If I
inject 50% less fuel, and expect lower power output, and decrease
speed, well below what it was designed for, I should use less fuel.
(Plus less weight) I do understand your thinking though. X-work must
have Y-fuel to perform.

I am considering using a motorcycle engine (water cooled) also. But the
coupling to the transmission input shaft would require a pillar block
bearing of some sort, and alignment would be critical.

I was just hoping someone else had tried something like this and I
could learn something. I don't know how the computer would react to
lower(?) discharge gas temps. What about the ignition pack? Would not
allowing two plugs to fire cause a default failure code or kill the ign
pack while trying to fire two non grounded plugs? Mass Airflow Sensor?
Hmmm,...idle valve?

Motorcycle engine is sounding better and better.

>John S. wrote:
> Not worth the effort imho.  Even if you get the balance right, it will
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Why not buy something like a used civic or corolla with a small motor
> and get 35 mpg.
John S. - 17 Apr 2006 15:18 GMT
It takes a certain amount of fuel burned to create sufficient power to
move at a given speed.  Under your proposed design:

Four cylinders will use a certain amount of fuel per cylinder to move
the car forward at 40mph.
Two cylinders under a light load will have to burn more fuel per
cylinder to create the same amount of power to move the car forward at
40mph.

Your solution will not reduce fuel consumption by the amount of fuel
used in 2 cylinders.  If you take 2 cylinders off line the remaining
two will have to work harder by burning more gas.  If your idea was
correct we would all be riding around in cars with single cylinder
motors.

> Thanks for the input guys.
>
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
> > Why not buy something like a used civic or corolla with a small motor
> > and get 35 mpg.
Spud Demon - 17 Apr 2006 21:42 GMT
lee308@gmail.com writes in article <1145280537.679179.64950@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> dated 17 Apr 2006 06:28:57 -0700:
>Buying something defeats the purpose, to save money on gas. If I bought
>a four thousand dollar vehicle to save .40cents/gallon, well do the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>I'm already using a Honda 750 shadow that gets 50mpg, but come winter,
>its damn cold.

Spend $300 on a set of cold-weather motorcycle clothing.

A motorcycle engine pushing a car body is going to get roughly the same
mileage as an economy car engine.

-- spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.
sdlomi2 - 16 Apr 2006 00:05 GMT
> I'm considering buying a cheap high milage toyota or saturn 4cly/manual
> tranny and trying to improve gas mileage.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Any thoughts?

   Got a friend who removed 4 pistons from a 455 Olds for his mom to drive.
It did run smoothly--a real 228 cubic inch v-4.  It drove fine, other than
obvious lack of power, but fuel mileage turned out to be much like it was
with the full 8 cylinders operating.  YMMV.  s
Scott Dorsey - 16 Apr 2006 01:59 GMT
>If I was to remove two pistons and corrisponding
>injectors/lifters/rods, etc. Cap off oil ports on the crankshaft. I
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>seen this happen by accident in another situation. (4 cly compressor
>missing two pistons from the factory.)

Why not just buy a nice two-cylinder Citroen or Fiat and be done with
it?

>All I need is 50mph.

That's kind of pushing it in a 2CV.
-scott
Signature

"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Elbert - 16 Apr 2006 02:23 GMT
>I'm considering buying a cheap high milage toyota or saturn 4cly/manual
>tranny and trying to improve gas mileage.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
>Any thoughts?

waste of time... I doubt you would even get close
to the mileage % improvement you state.

it you want a two cylinder the best thing to do is get a motorcycle

engines are designed as a complete unit.... not where you can
just take off two cylinders and expect everything else to work fine
and just make large gains in fuel mileage and decreases in power.

as far as I know they don't make modular engines where you just take
off the parts you don't want. They do make some V-8s that apparently
can save fuel by managing what cylinders it fires. I know Cadillac had
this in the past and Dodge has it on its hemi engines. I don't think
the Cadillac system was ever worth having.....

-----------
Elbert
ask@me.com
 
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