Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / April 2006
Bringing Back the Classic Gas-guzzler
|
|
Thread rating:  |
kevin.kirby@gmail.com - 22 Apr 2006 23:30 GMT I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter materials and hybridized engines.
Imagine driving a '48 Studebaker -- but getting 50 miles to the gallon. That's what I'm talking about. The bodies of immortal classic cars, returning as economical & flashy modern vehicles; can it be done today?
=AB Paul =BB - 23 Apr 2006 00:22 GMT > I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of > classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > That's what I'm talking about. The bodies of immortal classic cars, > returning as economical & flashy modern vehicles; can it be done today? http://www.cruisenewsonline.com/48StudebakerStarlightCoupe/48StudebakerFeature-T op.jpg
Nate Nagel - 23 Apr 2006 04:11 GMT « Paul » wrote:
>>I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of >>classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://www.cruisenewsonline.com/48StudebakerStarlightCoupe/48StudebakerFeature-T op.jpg just to pick a nit, that's not really a '48; the classic "bullet nose" was 50-51 only; probably someone put a '50 nose on a '48 (or put a '48 serial number on a '50) so that it would qualify for a certain class in shows.
nate
 Signature replace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
=AB Paul =BB - 23 Apr 2006 04:59 GMT > « Paul » wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > nate Yes. It's actually a customized show car. Pretty nice though. I would'nt mind having something like that. Much better then a boxy Chevy. Of course it will cost $45,000 and I would never be able to afford one.
Nate Nagel - 23 Apr 2006 11:58 GMT « Paul » wrote:
>>« Paul » wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > I would'nt mind having something like that. Much better then a boxy Chevy. > Of course it will cost $45,000 and I would never be able to afford one. Studebakers are suprisingly affordable, as classics go. There's a REAL nice '58 Golden Hawk on eBay right now, one of the nicest I've seen, that may hit 30K; that's about the limit for a nicely restored one.
I just sold a mostly done, driving '62 Lark hardtop for a *lot* less than that.
nate
 Signature replace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
Geoff Glave - 23 Apr 2006 00:42 GMT > I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of > classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter > materials and hybridized engines. Ford did this with the T-bird and it failed in the market. You do see this on those rebuilder shows on TV all the time - They completely update the vehicles.
> Imagine driving a '48 Studebaker -- but getting 50 miles to the gallon. You wouldn't get the good mileage without the aerodynamics.
Cheers, Geoff Glave Vancouver, Canada
sdlomi2 - 23 Apr 2006 01:07 GMT >> I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of >> classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > You wouldn't get the good mileage without the aerodynamics. It was mentioned earlier about Studebakers--remember how aerodynamic (at least from an eyeballing perspective) some of those were, ala 1950's, way ahead of their time. And the eyeballed sleekness of the 1940 Ford coupe. I've seen a prototype of a new Dodge Challenger--it really resembles the older one. And VW seems to have done well with their resurrection of the Beetle along w/good gas mileage. I, too, would love to see some of the classics resurrected with modern conveniences AND good fuel mileage too. I believe some of the bodies were close enough to split the wind, with moderate changes. s
jcr - 23 Apr 2006 03:18 GMT > On 4/22/2006 7:42 PM ... Geoff Glave wrote: >> I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of >> classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter >> materials and hybridized engines. > > Ford did this with the T-bird and it failed in the market. Ford priced the T-bird WAY out of the reach of the market is why that failed. The car was a beauty, but too expensive! Now the retro Mustang seems to be doing well. The PT Cruiser (built with 1940's style queues) had a good run and the "new" beetle fairly good success. so, it depends.
I don't think the '56 or '57 Chevy Bel-Air (or Nomad) could be reproduced and do well.
> You do see this > on those rebuilder shows on TV all the time - They completely update the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > You wouldn't get the good mileage without the aerodynamics. Probably better than you would think.
> Cheers, > Geoff Glave > Vancouver, Canada Nate Nagel - 23 Apr 2006 03:56 GMT >>> I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of >>> classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Probably better than you would think. Not in a '48 but in a '53-55 coupe, you might be surprised. There's a reason they were so popular with Bonnevile racers.
OF course I won't buy one... dropping an R1 ('63 Avanti engine) in my *real* '55 as soon as I get the frame painted and steering box swapped out :) Seriously, I have heard tell of people driving similar cars and with the 3/OD trans and a light foot, you can reportedly get over 20 MPG.
nate
 Signature replace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
Ad absurdum per aspera - 27 Apr 2006 17:14 GMT > The PT Cruiser (built with 1940's style queues) had a good run Ditto for the 300C -- not a literal imitation of any particular classic, but with a lot of the design language from the early-mid 50s.
Interestingly, although a sizeable car by today's standards, it is several inches narrower and a couple of feet shorter than its namesake. Of course, modern design and construction practices let you get more useable interior space out of a given footprint and silhouette, but still, luxury cars of that era were BIG!!! (almost by definition) and improved aerodynamics can only do so much to compensate for that huge cross section. Basically, once you got out of the Ford/Chevy everyman's-car class, you had something pretty comparable in size and weight to a lot of today's SUVs.
The other thing that classics-made-modern vendors might do well to keep in mind -- and I think this is something Ford goofed with the new-retro T-bird, is to bring the bling a little. Chromium comes from the Lost Dutchman Mine or something there, guys? Dechroming is a school of thought in the rod-and-custom world, not the way those cars were originally. Something about many of the colors seemed slightly "off" to me as well -- the original two-seater Bird palette captured its time and place perfectly and should've just been brought back as best they could.
Oh, yeah, and a really hot engine option coupled to a good manual tranny -- although the Bird always was more a boulevard cruiser than a raceable sports car, there needed to be a modern answer to the 430 CID and supercharger options of the original. Things might've been different for that reintroduction if at least a limited edition had been available with a Cobraesque treatment from SVT...
My wish-list revisitation is the slightly postwar Jeepster, only with more engine (always an aspect in which Willys was found wanting) and a modern driveline and running gear. The Liberty chassis ought to do nicely as a platform, or maybe the Dodge Dakota pickup. They had a concept Jeepster at the shows several years ago, but I think it missed the mark -- they went for a sort of Hot Wheels meets Tonka Toy look, whereas the original is all about "well-off older alumni heading up to the lake."
--Joe
John S. - 23 Apr 2006 02:57 GMT > I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of > classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > That's what I'm talking about. The bodies of immortal classic cars, > returning as economical & flashy modern vehicles; can it be done today? I've seen kit cars that were replicas and of course Ford has reissued the Mustang, etc. No reason it can't be done, but it is just a question of demand. Sexy, cute cars with a broad based appeal like the VW bug and Mustang have the best potential. Reissuing a Packard, Rambler, 57 Chevy, etc., would be dicier.
fiveiron@webtv.net - 23 Apr 2006 03:12 GMT I don't know, but I like the idea, could the lincoln continental be one of the first? btw - be sure it has the spare tire kit on the "ld".
and yes - the '57 chevy would be a good one too. and how about a studebaker wagon with pup?:--) == ideally wouldn't an available "running chassis" set-up that could adapt to numerous one-piece fiberglass bodies - of different makes be neat? naw, never happen.
mho ve
fiveiron@webtv.net - 23 Apr 2006 03:18 GMT you bet, let's go.
http://www.jimspages.com/57CHEVY.html
mho ve
news - 23 Apr 2006 22:18 GMT > I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of > classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > That's what I'm talking about. The bodies of immortal classic cars, > returning as economical & flashy modern vehicles; can it be done today? It probably could be done. However... the retro thing has a limited shelf life - what are you going to replace it with in 3 years when people are bored of it?
And if you're a big auto mfr... you have to meet 2006 safety standards with your redone 57 Chevy. Not impossible, but not cheap either. And once you start adding a whack of steel to make it stronger... most of your weight savings goes into the crapper.
But it definitely can be done.
Ray
steve goodsworth - 24 Apr 2006 02:50 GMT I suppose if a company were to produce the old body styles with carbon fibre or some other lighweight composite material, you could through a light frame underneath with all the proper modern fixin's for the price of a middle class luxury car. I imagine looks would have to be very important to someone before considering this kind of investment though. AC, is back in production using modern materials and classic body style. We can't call it a cobra but we all know what it is. :) steve www.mydreamwheels.com
HarryHydro - 24 Apr 2006 13:35 GMT Hi: I keep thinking of doing this with an old vehicle, except keep the parts down, like the old days, but use natural gas instead of gasoline. Natural gas doesn't mind the high compression! I work in natural gas, and with ga$oline co$t$ going up, it's looking more attractive.. Harry
Don Stauffer - 24 Apr 2006 14:52 GMT > Hi: > I keep thinking of doing this with an old vehicle, except keep [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > attractive.. > Harry Likewise, it is not that difficult to run a car engine on hydrogen. I see all these news stories that the hydrogen economy must wait till we get fuel cell automobiles. Not true. It is far easier to convert an existing engine to run on hydrogen than it is to develop the practical, low cost fuel cell.
One does have to use EGR with hydrogen to cut down on NOx emissions, but we know how to make EGR systems!
N8N - 24 Apr 2006 15:33 GMT > > Hi: > > I keep thinking of doing this with an old vehicle, except keep [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > One does have to use EGR with hydrogen to cut down on NOx emissions, but > we know how to make EGR systems! But unless we can use the hydrogen radically more efficiently than we do gasoline, there's no advantage to hydrogen, as it will take as much or more energy to produce said hydrogen than we are currently directly using in the form of gasoline or Diesel motor fuel. There are theoretical limits to the efficiency of an IC engine that aren't present in a fuel cell/electric motor combination. That is why everyone is waiting for a practical fuel cell before making the switch. (well, everyone but GWB, that is. I guess nobody's clued him in that using H2 in an IC engine won't do a damn thing to solve our dependency on oil.)
nate
Don Stauffer - 25 Apr 2006 14:34 GMT >>>Hi: >>> I keep thinking of doing this with an old vehicle, except keep [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > nate Well, there is the factor of reduction in emissions that people are touting with the fuel cell cars- you get same emissions from IC burning hydrogen if you use EGR to cut out the NOx.
However, I agree with you- we need to find an efficient source of hydrogen. To me, THAT is where the federal R & D money should go, NOT in developing fuel cells. Fuel cells without a good source of H2 makes no sense. I have heard of a solar biomass idea- bugs that emit H2 rather than methane. But it is in early stage of development- I think it is a genetic engineering thing.
Don Stauffer - 25 Apr 2006 14:36 GMT >>>Hi: >>> I keep thinking of doing this with an old vehicle, except keep [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > nate Well, there is the factor of reduction in emissions that people are touting with the fuel cell cars- you get same emissions from IC burning hydrogen if you use EGR to cut out the NOx.
However, I agree with you- we need to find an efficient source of hydrogen. To me, THAT is where the federal R & D money should go, NOT in developing fuel cells. Fuel cells without a good source of H2 makes no sense. I have heard of a solar biomass idea- bugs that emit H2 rather than methane. But it is in early stage of development- I think it is a genetic engineering thing.
N8N - 25 Apr 2006 15:53 GMT > >>>Hi: > >>> I keep thinking of doing this with an old vehicle, except keep [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > rather than methane. But it is in early stage of development- I think it > is a genetic engineering thing. If you produce H2 by cracking water through electrolysis, the whole process ends up being pretty much like a battery. You put energy in, and get it out on the other end (with losses, of course.) Then you run it in an IC engine, which gets maybe 30% efficiency.
Now with a fuel cell, you can get much more efficiency when you couple that with an electric motor than you can through an IC engine. So the whole system, beginning to end, might end up being more efficient than a gasoline IC engine. That would be a Good Thing(tm.)
Now if your idea of using biochemical means to produce H2 becomes viable, that would be even better - but I disagree that we should not be doing research on fuel cells, because reducing total energy use can't help but make life easier for all involved.
nate
Alex Rodriguez - 24 Apr 2006 21:26 GMT >I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of >classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >That's what I'm talking about. The bodies of immortal classic cars, >returning as economical & flashy modern vehicles; can it be done today? Some of those classic cars are not very aerodynamic, so I doubt you will get great gas mileage from them. ------------------ Alex
|
|
|