Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
HomeAnnouncements
Discussion Groups
By Brand
BMWChevroletDodgeFordGMHondaLexusMercedes-BenzNissanPeugeotToyotaVolkswagenOther Brands
By Topic
4x4 CarsRVsDrivingMaintenance & RepairCar AudioCollectible Cars
Country Specific
Australian ForumsUK Forums
ArticlesAuto InsuranceBuyingCars & TechnologyMaintenanceMiscellaneousSafety
DMV Resources
Related Topics
MotorcyclesBoatsMore Topics ...

Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / April 2006

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Bringing Back the Classic Gas-guzzler

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
kevin.kirby@gmail.com - 22 Apr 2006 23:30 GMT
I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of
classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter
materials and hybridized engines.

Imagine driving a '48 Studebaker -- but getting 50 miles to the gallon.
That's what I'm talking about. The bodies of immortal classic cars,
returning as economical & flashy modern vehicles; can it be done today?
=AB Paul =BB - 23 Apr 2006 00:22 GMT
> I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of
> classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> That's what I'm talking about. The bodies of immortal classic cars,
> returning as economical & flashy modern vehicles; can it be done today?

http://www.cruisenewsonline.com/48StudebakerStarlightCoupe/48StudebakerFeature-T
op.jpg

Nate Nagel - 23 Apr 2006 04:11 GMT
« Paul » wrote:

>>I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of
>>classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> http://www.cruisenewsonline.com/48StudebakerStarlightCoupe/48StudebakerFeature-T
op.jpg

just to pick a nit, that's not really a '48; the classic "bullet nose"
was 50-51 only; probably someone put a '50 nose on a '48 (or put a '48
serial number on a '50) so that it would qualify for a certain class in
shows.

nate

Signature

replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

=AB Paul =BB - 23 Apr 2006 04:59 GMT
> « Paul » wrote:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> nate

Yes.  It's actually a customized show car.  Pretty nice though.
I would'nt mind having something like that.  Much better then a boxy Chevy.
Of course it will cost $45,000 and I would never be able to afford one.
Nate Nagel - 23 Apr 2006 11:58 GMT
« Paul » wrote:

>>« Paul » wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> I would'nt mind having something like that.  Much better then a boxy Chevy.
> Of course it will cost $45,000 and I would never be able to afford one.

Studebakers are suprisingly affordable, as classics go.  There's a REAL
nice '58 Golden Hawk on eBay right now, one of the nicest I've seen,
that may hit 30K; that's about the limit for a nicely restored one.

I just sold a mostly done, driving '62 Lark hardtop for a *lot* less
than that.

nate

Signature

replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Geoff Glave - 23 Apr 2006 00:42 GMT
> I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of
> classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter
> materials and hybridized engines.

Ford did this with the T-bird and it failed in the market.  You do see this
on those rebuilder shows on TV all the time - They completely update the
vehicles.

> Imagine driving a '48 Studebaker -- but getting 50 miles to the gallon.

You wouldn't get the good mileage without the aerodynamics.

Cheers,
Geoff Glave
Vancouver, Canada
sdlomi2 - 23 Apr 2006 01:07 GMT
>> I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of
>> classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> You wouldn't get the good mileage without the aerodynamics.

   It was mentioned earlier about Studebakers--remember how aerodynamic (at
least from an eyeballing perspective) some of those were, ala 1950's, way
ahead of their time.  And the eyeballed sleekness of the 1940 Ford coupe.
I've seen a prototype of a new Dodge Challenger--it really resembles the
older one.  And VW seems to have done well with their resurrection of the
Beetle along w/good gas mileage.
   I, too, would love to see some of the classics resurrected with modern
conveniences AND good fuel mileage too.  I believe some of the bodies were
close enough to split the wind, with moderate changes.  s
jcr - 23 Apr 2006 03:18 GMT
> On  4/22/2006 7:42 PM ...  Geoff Glave  wrote:
>> I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of
>> classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter
>> materials and hybridized engines.
>
> Ford did this with the T-bird and it failed in the market.  

Ford priced the T-bird WAY out of the reach of the market is why that
failed.  The car was a beauty, but too expensive!  Now the retro Mustang
seems to be doing well.  The PT Cruiser (built with 1940's style queues)
had a good run and the "new" beetle fairly good success.  so, it depends.

I don't think the '56 or '57 Chevy Bel-Air (or Nomad) could be
reproduced and do well.

> You do see this
> on those rebuilder shows on TV all the time - They completely update the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> You wouldn't get the good mileage without the aerodynamics.

Probably better than you would think.

> Cheers,
> Geoff Glave
> Vancouver, Canada
Nate Nagel - 23 Apr 2006 03:56 GMT
>>> I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of
>>> classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Probably better than you would think.

Not in a '48 but in a '53-55 coupe, you might be surprised.  There's a
reason they were so popular with Bonnevile racers.

OF course I won't buy one... dropping an R1 ('63 Avanti engine) in my
*real* '55 as soon as I get the frame painted and steering box swapped
out :)  Seriously, I have heard tell of people driving similar cars and
with the 3/OD trans and a light foot, you can reportedly get over 20 MPG.

nate

Signature

replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Ad absurdum per aspera - 27 Apr 2006 17:14 GMT
> The PT Cruiser (built with 1940's style queues) had a good run

Ditto for the 300C -- not a literal imitation of any particular
classic, but with a lot of the design language from the early-mid 50s.

Interestingly, although a sizeable car by today's standards, it is
several inches narrower and a couple of feet shorter than its namesake.
Of course, modern design and construction practices let you get more
useable interior space out of a given footprint and silhouette, but
still, luxury cars of that era were BIG!!!  (almost by definition) and
improved aerodynamics can only do so much to compensate for that huge
cross section.  Basically, once you got out of the Ford/Chevy
everyman's-car class, you had something pretty comparable in size and
weight to a lot of today's SUVs.

The other thing that classics-made-modern vendors might do well to keep
in mind -- and I think this is something Ford goofed with the new-retro
T-bird, is to bring the bling a little.  Chromium comes from the Lost
Dutchman Mine or something there, guys?  Dechroming is a school of
thought in the rod-and-custom world, not the way those cars were
originally.  Something about many of the colors seemed slightly "off"
to me as well -- the original two-seater Bird palette captured its time
and place perfectly and should've just been brought back as best they
could.

Oh, yeah, and a really hot engine option coupled to a good manual
tranny -- although the Bird always was  more a boulevard cruiser than a
raceable sports car, there needed to be a modern answer to the 430 CID
and supercharger options of the original.   Things might've been
different for that reintroduction if at least a limited edition had
been available with a Cobraesque treatment from SVT...

My wish-list revisitation is the slightly postwar Jeepster, only with
more engine (always an aspect in which Willys was found wanting) and a
modern driveline and running gear.  The Liberty chassis ought to do
nicely as a platform, or maybe the Dodge Dakota pickup.  They had a
concept Jeepster at the shows several years ago, but I think it missed
the mark -- they went for a sort of Hot Wheels meets Tonka Toy look,
whereas the original is all about "well-off older alumni heading up to
the lake."  

--Joe
John S. - 23 Apr 2006 02:57 GMT
> I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of
> classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> That's what I'm talking about. The bodies of immortal classic cars,
> returning as economical & flashy modern vehicles; can it be done today?

I've seen kit cars that were replicas and of course Ford has reissued
the Mustang, etc.  No reason it can't be done, but it is just a
question of demand.  Sexy, cute cars with a broad based appeal like the
VW bug and Mustang have the best potential.  Reissuing a Packard,
Rambler, 57 Chevy, etc., would be dicier.
fiveiron@webtv.net - 23 Apr 2006 03:12 GMT
I don't know, but I like the idea, could the lincoln continental be one
of the first? btw - be sure it has the spare tire kit on the "ld".

and yes - the '57 chevy would be a good one too. and how about a
studebaker wagon with pup?:--)
==
ideally wouldn't an available  "running chassis" set-up that could adapt
to numerous one-piece fiberglass bodies - of different makes be neat?
naw, never happen.

mho
vƒe
fiveiron@webtv.net - 23 Apr 2006 03:18 GMT
you bet, let's go.

http://www.jimspages.com/57CHEVY.html

mho
vƒe
news - 23 Apr 2006 22:18 GMT
> I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of
> classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> That's what I'm talking about. The bodies of immortal classic cars,
> returning as economical & flashy modern vehicles; can it be done today?

It probably could be done.  However... the retro thing has a limited
shelf life - what are you going to replace it with in 3 years when
people are bored of it?

And if you're a big auto mfr... you have to meet 2006 safety standards
with your redone 57 Chevy.  Not impossible, but not cheap either.  And
once you start adding a whack of steel to make it stronger... most of
your weight savings goes into the crapper.

But it definitely can be done.

Ray
steve goodsworth - 24 Apr 2006 02:50 GMT
I suppose if a company were to produce the old body styles with carbon
fibre or some other lighweight composite material, you could through a
light frame underneath with all the proper modern fixin's for the price
of a middle class luxury car.  I imagine looks would have to be very
important to someone before considering this kind of investment though.
AC, is back in production using modern materials and classic body
style.  We can't call it a cobra but we all know what it is. :)
steve
www.mydreamwheels.com
HarryHydro - 24 Apr 2006 13:35 GMT
Hi:
     I keep thinking of doing this with an old vehicle, except keep
the parts down, like the old days, but use natural gas instead of
gasoline.  Natural gas doesn't mind the high compression!  I work in
natural gas, and with ga$oline co$t$ going up, it's looking more
attractive..
Harry
Don Stauffer - 24 Apr 2006 14:52 GMT
> Hi:
>       I keep thinking of doing this with an old vehicle, except keep
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> attractive..
> Harry

Likewise, it is not that difficult to run a car engine on hydrogen. I
see all these news stories that the hydrogen economy must wait till we
get fuel cell automobiles.  Not true. It is far easier to convert an
existing engine to run on hydrogen than it is to develop the practical,
low cost fuel cell.

One does have to use EGR with hydrogen to cut down on NOx emissions, but
we know how to make EGR systems!
N8N - 24 Apr 2006 15:33 GMT
> > Hi:
> >       I keep thinking of doing this with an old vehicle, except keep
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> One does have to use EGR with hydrogen to cut down on NOx emissions, but
> we know how to make EGR systems!

But unless we can use the hydrogen radically more efficiently than we
do gasoline, there's no advantage to hydrogen, as it will take as much
or more energy to produce said hydrogen than we are currently directly
using in the form of gasoline or Diesel motor fuel.  There are
theoretical limits to the efficiency of an IC engine that aren't
present in a fuel cell/electric motor combination.  That is why
everyone is waiting for a practical fuel cell before making the switch.
(well, everyone but GWB, that is.  I guess nobody's clued him in that
using H2 in an IC engine won't do a damn thing to solve our dependency
on oil.)

nate
Don Stauffer - 25 Apr 2006 14:34 GMT
>>>Hi:
>>>      I keep thinking of doing this with an old vehicle, except keep
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> nate

Well, there is the factor of reduction in emissions that people are
touting with the fuel cell cars- you get same emissions from IC burning
hydrogen if you use EGR to cut out the NOx.

However, I agree with you- we need to find an efficient source of
hydrogen.  To me, THAT is where the federal R & D money should go, NOT
in developing fuel cells.  Fuel cells without a good source of H2 makes
no sense.  I have heard of a solar biomass idea- bugs that emit H2
rather than methane. But it is in early stage of development- I think it
is a genetic engineering thing.
Don Stauffer - 25 Apr 2006 14:36 GMT
>>>Hi:
>>>      I keep thinking of doing this with an old vehicle, except keep
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> nate

Well, there is the factor of reduction in emissions that people are
touting with the fuel cell cars- you get same emissions from IC burning
hydrogen if you use EGR to cut out the NOx.

However, I agree with you- we need to find an efficient source of
hydrogen.  To me, THAT is where the federal R & D money should go, NOT
in developing fuel cells.  Fuel cells without a good source of H2 makes
no sense.  I have heard of a solar biomass idea- bugs that emit H2
rather than methane. But it is in early stage of development- I think it
is a genetic engineering thing.
N8N - 25 Apr 2006 15:53 GMT
> >>>Hi:
> >>>      I keep thinking of doing this with an old vehicle, except keep
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> rather than methane. But it is in early stage of development- I think it
> is a genetic engineering thing.

If you produce H2 by cracking water through electrolysis, the whole
process ends up being pretty much like a battery.  You put energy in,
and get it out on the other end (with losses, of course.)   Then you
run it in an IC engine, which gets maybe 30% efficiency.

Now with a fuel cell, you can get much more efficiency when you couple
that with an electric motor than you can through an IC engine.  So the
whole system, beginning to end, might end up being more efficient than
a gasoline IC engine.  That would be a Good Thing(tm.)

Now if your idea of using biochemical means to produce H2 becomes
viable, that would be even better - but I disagree that we should not
be doing research on fuel cells, because reducing total energy use
can't help but make life easier for all involved.

nate
Alex Rodriguez - 24 Apr 2006 21:26 GMT
>I'm wondering about the feasability of recreating the appearance of
>classic American autos, like the '57 Chevy & such; but with lighter
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>That's what I'm talking about. The bodies of immortal classic cars,
>returning as economical & flashy modern vehicles; can it be done today?

Some of those classic cars are not very aerodynamic, so I doubt you will
get great gas mileage from them.
------------------
Alex
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.