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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / May 2006GM 3.1L V6 coolant temp problem
A bit of a long read, but I'm trying to be thorough and provide all the information that may be necessary... My wife's car has a coolant temperature issue and I'm hoping to get some suggestions from you guys. The car is a 1995 Pontiac Grand Am SE (3.1L V6) w/150K miles. Auto-transmission and A/C. The coolant temperature gauge has 5 hash marks: - 100F - Unlabeled - 220F - Unlabeled - 280F A few weeks ago, the heater core died, sending coolant all over my driveway. I had it towed to the shop. They replaced the heater core and after doing a pressure test reported the radiator was leaking, so I also had them replace the radiator. Since then the engine has run hotter than normal. It's not overheating but it is definitely hotter. We have had this car since new. Prior to having the work done, the coolant temp was always around the 2nd hash mark (which I presume is about 180F-190F), maybe just a tiny bit above it. The only time I recall it going close to 220F was when I loaded the car down with a bunch of heavy stuff to take to the dump Since having the heater core and radiator replaced, the coolant temperature will go up to 220F (the 3rd hash mark) just while cruising on the highway at 65 MPH. When street-driving, it runs cooler than on the highway (but still hotter than before the work was done); it will vary from the midpoint of the 2nd and 3rd hash marks, up to 220F. The coolant temp will drop noticably when accelerating. I've taken it back to the shop twice. Last week they verified the system was staying pressurized, that all the air was bled from the system, and the fan comes on when they are supposed to. Yesterday they replaced the thermostat (only charging me for the thermostat itself). I have also verified the front air dam is in place. The mechanic's position is that since the coolant temperature is staying below the fan turn-on point (236F?) the cooling system is operating normally. I disagree with him. Even though the car isn't overheating, when we're driving on the highway, the coolant temperature is 220F (30F above the thermostat opening temperature) and that's not normal. 1st question: Is the mechanic right? 2nd question: If I'm right, any suggestions on what else to look at? The upper and lower radiator hoses were replaced a few months ago and the water pump is 2 years old. Thanks! check this out (gauge anomaly): http://www.theherd.com/articles/lt4_temp.html and (Kool It additive): http://www.getautohelp.com/automotive_products/96001.html In article <1146572704.731241.66260@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>, > check this out (gauge anomaly): > http://www.theherd.com/articles/lt4_temp.html Are you suggesting that he has a LT1/LT4 engine in his Grand Am? > and (Kool It additive): > http://www.getautohelp.com/automotive_products/96001.html What if he didn't have Kool-It in his radiator before the heater core leak? > In article > <1146572704.731241.66260@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Are you suggesting that he has a LT1/LT4 engine in his Grand Am? Not necessarily, but there's nothing with thinking outside the box. What was your suggestion to the OP? > > and (Kool It additive): > > http://www.getautohelp.com/automotive_products/96001.html > > What if he didn't have Kool-It in his radiator before the heater > core leak? Again, another option. Also, what is your suggestion to the OP? Either participate positively, or dont participate.  Signatureremove MYSHOES to email > > In article > > <1146572704.731241.66260@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Not necessarily, but there's nothing with > thinking outside the box. By what stretch is referencing an entirely different engine with a reverse flow cooling system "thinking outside the box?" You're comparing horse shoes to pineapples. > What was your suggestion to the OP? Had I made one, it certainly wouldn't have anything to do with relocating the temperature sending units which at best would only serve to mask whatever problem he's experiencing. > > > and (Kool It additive): > > > http://www.getautohelp.com/automotive_products/96001.html [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Again, another option. Masking the problem is not a very wise option. If the car didn't need Kool-It jizz in the radiator to function properly for eleven years, why should it need it now? > Also, what is your > suggestion to the OP? To ignore you. > Either participate positively, or dont participate. Who died and made you the boss? > A bit of a long read, but I'm trying to be thorough and provide all > the information that may be necessary... [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Thanks! Verify that the replacement radiator has the same cooling capacity as the original. Some shops install cheaper radiators with fewer cooling tubes. They will suffice under normal operation, but you will notice elevated temperatures under extreme conditions. SignatureKevin Mouton Automotive Technology Instructor "If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy" Red Green > Verify that the replacement radiator has the same cooling capacity as the > original. Some shops install cheaper radiators with fewer cooling tubes. > They will suffice under normal operation, but you will notice elevated > temperatures under extreme conditions. The shop only installs OEM parts, and I trust them in that respect. If the radiator wasn't up to snuff, wouldn't I be getting close to normal temperature on the highway, but overtemp when doing stoplight- to-stoplight driving? Some time ago (probably five or ten years) I flushed the 3.1 engine in my Beretta and added new antifreeze. Afterwards the temperature read considerably different. I don't remember if it was higher or lower, but I thought it was very strange to read differently and I never could figure out why. Also, I replace the thermostat about a year and a half ago and it read about 20 deg.F higher with the new thermostat. The new thermostat starts to open at 205 deg.F (10 degrees higher than specs) and I assume that the old one opened 10 degrees lower than specs. > A bit of a long read, but I'm trying to be thorough and provide all > the information that may be necessary... [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Thanks! SignatureMike Walsh West Palm Beach, Florida, U.S.A. > A bit of a long read, but I'm trying to be thorough and provide all > the information that may be necessary... [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Thanks! First off verify with Pontiac what the normal operating temperature should be. Next, have someone check the coolant mixture itself. If they used 100% coolant when it should have been mixed with 50% with water it will not transfer heat as effectively. > First off verify with Pontiac what the normal operating temperature > should be. Yep, that's definitely a good idea. :-) > Next, have someone check the coolant mixture itself. If they used 100% > coolant when it should have been mixed with 50% with water it will not > transfer heat as effectively. That's a pretty basic thing to screw up, but I suppose it couldn't hurt to check it out... >>Next, have someone check the coolant mixture itself. If they used 100% >>coolant when it should have been mixed with 50% with water it will not >>transfer heat as effectively. > > That's a pretty basic thing to screw up, but I suppose it couldn't > hurt to check it out... Its a lot more likely to happen now that we have shelves full of the idiotic "pre-diluted" antifreeze and people get used to just dumping it in straight all the time. > > First off verify with Pontiac what the normal operating temperature > > should be. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > That's a pretty basic thing to screw up, but I suppose it couldn't > hurt to check it out... You might be surprised at how may times that gets screwed up. People dilute pre-diluted coolant and don't dilute 100% coolant. > Since having the heater core and radiator replaced, the coolant > temperature will go up to 220F (the 3rd hash mark) just while [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > marks, up to 220F. The coolant temp will drop noticably when > accelerating. IMHO, hot on the highway but cool around town = airflow problem. There's nothing jammed in between the rad and the A/C condensor? I've heard of stuff like plastic bags getting jammed in there. I would also confirm that they replaced the rad with the right size - maybe they inadvertently used one for a 4cyl, no AC Grand Am? Double check the part numbers. Also, if the thermostat has been changed it could be to blame - the one in my truck stays closed until it's almost too hot (the needle starts to go past "normal" and then opens like crazy - the temp drops about 20 degrees and then it slams back shut and cycles like this for a while.) Nothing wrong with it, I just don't like it. Lastly... check the connectors for the temperature gauge. A little dirt, a broken wire... could make your gauge read high. you're not overheating, but 220 sounds high. On the cars I've owned, "normal" (aka the middle of the factory gauge) is around 190-210F. Ray |
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