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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / June 2006Engine won't start
I was driving in town [about 25 mph] and I gradually lost power and the engine quit. No noise, bang, clang or rattle. Just a power loss and it quit. Kind of like the spark got weaker and weaker and faded away. I have a 97 1.0L metro and I thought it was a fuel pump until I found out that I had no spark going to the plugs. I have power going into and out of the coil and into the distributor. Tested with a volt meter. But nothing to the plugs. The rotor turns as I set the timing earlier in the day. The timing belt is good as I went back and checked it. I swapped out the coil, distributor, cap and rotor button with good parts that I had in the shop. [I have a 94 metro also] so I am at a loss here. I'm not good with electrical problems and really need some advice on where to go next. I know it has a crank sensor and I tried the ignition control module on my 94 and it worked so they can't be the problem. Are there fuses/relays that may be causing this and if so, how do you test them. [other than the obvious blown fuse] Maybe a fuseable link? Any input would be greatly appreciated. I get consistent PSI when I did the compression check across all three cylinders. Although it wasn't as high as I would like it to be, each cylinder was consistent with one another. Would that have any bearing on this? Thanks in advance. This car was getting 50+ MPG so I'd like to get it figured out. >I was driving in town [about 25 mph] and I gradually lost power and the >engine quit. No noise, bang, clang or rattle. Just a power loss and it [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >it has a crank sensor and I tried the ignition control module on my 94 and >it worked so they can't be the problem. Are there fuses/relays that may be Put a scope on the signal going to the ignitor. Are you sure the coil you swapped with was good? Does the engine computer report any codes? >>I was driving in town [about 25 mph] and I gradually lost power and the >>engine quit. No noise, bang, clang or rattle. Just a power loss and it [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Are you sure the coil you swapped with was good? > Does the engine computer report any codes? Please remember that I am weak on electrical issues. About the only piece of electrical test equipment I have is a volt meter. The coil, and distributor were both taken from running vehicles. So I have no reason to doubt that they work. As for the codes, the check engine light isn't on but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. I can go in and see what's up there. The code reader that I have is for a subaru. I read in my book about an F1 fuse in the fuse box under the hood that needs to be removed before I do a compression test. Could that cause this? and the other question is the compression test is 20 PSI below minimum spec. Would that be an issue? It shouldn't prevent the fire at the plug, would it? >>>I was driving in town [about 25 mph] and I gradually lost power and the >>>engine quit. No noise, bang, clang or rattle. Just a power loss and it [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> Are you sure the coil you swapped with was good? >> Does the engine computer report any codes? >Please remember that I am weak on electrical issues. About the only >piece of electrical test equipment I have is a volt meter. The coil, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I can go in and see what's up there. The code reader that I have >is for a subaru. A shop manual will tell you how to read out the codes. I read in my book about an F1 fuse in the fuse box >under the hood that needs to be removed before I do a compression test. >Could that cause this? If the main fuse is blown then you won't be able to operate the starter Or maybe that fuse mentioned was for ignition or FI so that you wouldn't start the engine while trying to do a compression check. and the other question is the compression test >is 20 PSI below minimum spec. Would that be an issue? It shouldn't >prevent the fire at the plug, would it? I think it certainly might! How low was the compression? I wonder if you have a broken timing belt and the valves are shut so you might see some compression. >>>>I was driving in town [about 25 mph] and I gradually lost power and the >>>>engine quit. No noise, bang, clang or rattle. Just a power loss and it [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > How low was the compression? I wonder if you have a broken timing belt > and the valves are shut so you might see some compression. If you look inside the distributor (you will probably have to take off the rotor), you will see (if there is one there) a module that if you have one is the culprit. I had a similar situation in a chevy van of mine....it turned out to be a 8 dollar part..... plus it shouldn't be hard to replace.... let us know.. Fwed >>>>I was driving in town [about 25 mph] and I gradually lost power and the >>>>engine quit. No noise, bang, clang or rattle. Just a power loss and it [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > How low was the compression? I wonder if you have a broken timing belt > and the valves are shut so you might see some compression. That is of course if you have no spark to the plugs..... low compression would certainly not let the car start, but for the no spark situation.... id check the module out first... Fwed >> How low was the compression? I wonder if you have a broken timing belt >> and the valves are shut so you might see some compression. > That is of course if you have no spark to the plugs..... low compression >would certainly not let the car start, but for the no spark situation.... id >check the module out first... bullshit. Compression checks are routinely done with no spark; you simply crank the engine. What $8 module are you talking about? Last time I checked, ignitors typically ran about $50-80. Didn't the OP swap the entire distributor from a working car? If the ignition is truly dead, I'd be wondering if the signal from the engine computer is reaching the distributor and you'll need a scope for that. Or perhaps just put a voltmeter on it at the most sensitive range with the car off. If the wire is connected, the voltmeter will read all zeros. If the wire is open, the meter will pick up noise and not show zero. Maybe swap the engine computer from the working car? >>>>I was driving in town [about 25 mph] and I gradually lost power and the >>>>engine quit. No noise, bang, clang or rattle. Just a power loss and it [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > How low was the compression? I wonder if you have a broken timing belt > and the valves are shut so you might see some compression. The F1 fuse was under the hood in a fuse box right next to the relay box. When I read to take it out I found a diagram that pointed me right to it. It was a 15 amp fuse and it was blown. When I replaced it I got fire to the plugs but it still would not start. It acted like it wanted to. Now my plan is to find out if I have juice going to the fuel pump. If I do then my first thought of a bad pump comes to mind again. As for the comp test, My tester is an old one that you have to hold into the plug hole while someone cranks it over. I live alone so even though I got a reading there is only so much of a seal you can get with a concrete block holding the tester in place. Now that I have a new tester that screws in I will tell you what the readings are and if I have power to the pump. The readings with the old tester were 128, 128 and 126 across all 3 cylinders. Spec says 155 minimum. The test was done 1 cylinder at a time with only 1 plug removed. Today I'll do it the right way. More to follow. You can rule out a broken timing belt. That was the first thing I checked and it was fine. > The F1 fuse was under the hood in a fuse box right next to the relay box. > When I read to take it out I found a diagram that pointed me right to it. > It was a 15 amp fuse and it was blown. When I replaced it I got fire to > the plugs but it still would not start. It acted like it wanted to. Now > my plan is to find out if I have juice going to the fuel pump. If I do With all the cranking you did, without any combustion, maybe it's just flooded now? I would think something shorted out which is what blew the fuse... unless it fried something before the fuse blew, it may just need to dry out a bit. >> The F1 fuse was under the hood in a fuse box right next to the relay box. >> When I read to take it out I found a diagram that pointed me right to it. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > fuse... unless it fried something before the fuse blew, it may just need > to dry out a bit. When the fuse blew it stopped the fuel pump and the plugs were all dry when I did the first comp test. Read my last post. I think I burned a valve as the comp test has number 1 significantly lower than 2 and 3 [110 PSI vs 160] and I think that is it in a nutshell. >>>>I was driving in town [about 25 mph] and I gradually lost power and the >>>>engine quit. No noise, bang, clang or rattle. Just a power loss and it [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > How low was the compression? I wonder if you have a broken timing belt > and the valves are shut so you might see some compression. The results are in. The fuse got the fuel pump and spark working again and it allowed me to do a comp test. Therein lies the terminal results. Cyl 1 cranked out 110 PSI while nos 2 and 3 came in at 160. Evidently I burned a valve and a new head is in order?? During this whole process my compressor gave out on me too so I bought another one. This is the first one I ever had that takes oil. Regarding that, where should the oil level be in the sight glass? It has a small red oval in the center of it and I'm thinking the oil level needs to be higher that that? Or do I fill it all the way to the top of the sight glass? Lord knows I don't want to blow this up too. Now I'm off to get a little head. It's only a 3 cylinder. |
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