Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / June 2006
steering wheel suddenly moved 45 degrees, now cocked
|
|
Thread rating:  |
RobH - 05 Jun 2006 08:59 GMT I was driving my 96 Mazda 626 on the interstate, at about 70mph, on a gradual curve. I think I hit a small bump, maybe an expansion joint, when suddenly I heard a small soft thunk and my steering wheel suddenly moved left in my hands - but the car kept going where I'd been pointing. Alarmed, I pulled over to the breakdown lane, slowed down to about 30, put on my flashers. But the car seemed to steer just as well as before, only now the wheel was cocked 45 degrees left. I drove home about 10 miles on back streets going slow with flashers on, but there were no more events. Of course this happened on Saturday afternoon, so calls to about 6 mechanics just got machines.
There's a little steering gear context which may or may not be directly related. A month ago (only about 150 miles) it needed a new lower right ball joint to pass inspection. As soon as that was done I noticed soft thunking/clicking from the gear when turning corners. The mechanic took a close look and said it was my upper strut mounts and bearings. The car has 159k miles. He said a $300 job (which I'd have to put on a credit card). I asked if it was the sort of thing that could result in a sudden loss of steering or a real safety concern. He said it was more like the gradual wear of brakes or a clutch, that I'd be able to sense when it was getting bad, and meanwhile I could drive if I just put up with the creaking on corners. That was only about 75 miles ago.
Lawrence Glickman - 05 Jun 2006 09:29 GMT >I was driving my 96 Mazda 626 on the interstate, at about 70mph, on a >gradual curve. I think I hit a small bump, maybe an expansion joint, [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >when it was getting bad, and meanwhile I could drive if I just put up >with the creaking on corners. That was only about 75 miles ago. I don't know this car. Does it have rack and pinion steering? If so, you've got some loose parts in that area. Something like the pinion jumped a tooth on the rack, or somesuch. Something is LOOSE. You can get under the car and check that out.
Lg
Kevin - 05 Jun 2006 10:35 GMT > >I was driving my 96 Mazda 626 on the interstate, at about 70mph, on a > >gradual curve. I think I hit a small bump, maybe an expansion joint, [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Lg 1. It is possible that the upper strut mount has failed and the strut has move out of place.
2. The rubber bushing that mount the steering gear may have failed and the entire rack and pinion steering gear has shifted over.
3. The pinion preload adjustment on the steering gear may have come loose and allowed the internal rack to jump some teeth on the pinion gear.
All of these conditions would require hoisting the car on a lift for inspection by a mechanic who knows what to look for. All of these conditions are potentially dangerous and the car should be towed to the nearest repair facility for repair.
 Signature Kevin Mouton Automotive Technology Instructor "If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy" Red Green
RobH - 05 Jun 2006 13:32 GMT > All of these conditions are potentially dangerous and the car should be > towed to the nearest repair facility for repair. Thanks Kevin, all good info to know, especially this last, and I will have it towed.
RobH - 05 Jun 2006 13:52 GMT Kevin, or it it Lawrence?
Looking at these possibilities (and not knowing cars), it occurs to me that they look pretty serious, especially given your towing recommendation. It makes me wonder if you were paying primary attention to the 'event' and the 45 degrees but paying little to the fact that the car still went straight down the road, responding correctly too, for a ten mile ride home. I mean how could that be if one of these conditions is true?
I'm also wondering about repair costs. I don't expect an idea about parts prices, but what about a ballpark on hours of labor? Isn't that something you can look up in a book?
TIA
* - 05 Jun 2006 14:44 GMT RobH <henerey@gmail.com> wrote in article <1149511939.843387.17180@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>...
> Kevin, or it it Lawrence? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > for a ten mile ride home. I mean how could that be if one of these > conditions is true? Nothing quite like insulting the intelligence and intention of knowledgeable people who are trying to help you to NOT crash your dumb a.s - and possibly take out innocent bystanders in the process..........especially when stating in the reply that you do not know what you are talking about!!!!
RobH - 05 Jun 2006 15:34 GMT > Nothing quite like insulting the intelligence and intention of > knowledgeable people who are trying to help you to NOT crash your dumb a.s > - and possibly take out innocent bystanders in the > process..........especially when stating in the reply that you do not know > what you are talking about!!!! Sorry it came across that way. I help people with computers a bit, and there have been many times when I focused on one thing I heard and in my rush to help somehow missed the other part of what they were saying. To me this seems like a common enough type of occurance in all walks of life. I was just double checking.
Kevin - 05 Jun 2006 23:05 GMT > > Nothing quite like insulting the intelligence and intention of > > knowledgeable people who are trying to help you to NOT crash your dumb a.s [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > To me this seems like a common enough type of occurance in all walks of > life. I was just double checking. Just to be double sure... Anytime the steering wheel takes a 45 degree offset while driving, there is a serious condition that might result in loss of steering control, even if it seems fine now.
 Signature Kevin Mouton Automotive Technology Instructor "If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy" Red Green
RobH - 05 Jun 2006 23:50 GMT RobH - 09 Jun 2006 16:33 GMT The mechanic who did the lower right ball joint looked at the car this morning and I just got a call saying I need a lower right control arm and sway bar. They said on the phone, "no labor charge, just parts". Huh? So I asked why. "Well, we had to look at the ball joint anyway, and you've been having a lot of hassle with the car". Parts cost? $191.
Hmm, sounds like they might be feeling guilty about something, or just b.s.'ing me in some way? After looking up the parts on the web, that $191 sounds like it should be parts AND labor anyway, so maybe they're just wanting me to feel good about it.?
Lawrence Glickman - 09 Jun 2006 21:59 GMT >The mechanic who did the lower right ball joint looked at the car this >morning and I just got a call saying I need a lower right control arm [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >$191 sounds like it should be parts AND labor anyway, so maybe they're >just wanting me to feel good about it.? You can check that by yourself, by jacking the car and seeing if you can grab the wheel/tire ass'y and move it along vertical and horizontal axis. If you can, you've got trouble ( I don't mean rotate it, I mean try to push/pull in and out ). If it is *rock solid* like it should be, not a hint of wobble no matter how hard you try, then somebody is bs'ing you.
Basic car maintenance 101, which I the class I'm in at the moment, but that much I know.
Lg
RobH - 11 Jun 2006 12:43 GMT You can check that by yourself, by jacking the car and seeing if you
> can grab the wheel/tire ass'y and move it along vertical and > horizontal axis. If you can, you've got trouble ( I don't mean rotate > it, I mean try to push/pull in and out ). If it is *rock solid* like > it should be, not a hint of wobble no matter how hard you try, then > somebody is bs'ing you. Thanks, Lawrence. I ended up taking their word for it, and ended up getting charged $141 instead of $191. Not only no labor $ but a discount on the control arm because it came as a unit WITH a ball joint, and they didn't want to see me buying 2 lower right ball joints when just the control arm would have done. I guess they think they should have spotted the bad control arm when they were doing the ball joint. I'll never really know. They didn't do a sway bar but a sway bar link.
When I drove out, the steering wheel is still not straight, but now it's only 5-10 degrees left instead of 45. I drove right back in and they said it needed an alignment now and I could wait while they did it or come back. It seemed they were offering that labor for free too. I couldn't stay but will bring it back this week.
Lawrence Glickman - 11 Jun 2006 15:57 GMT > You can check that by yourself, by jacking the car and seeing if you >> can grab the wheel/tire ass'y and move it along vertical and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >or come back. It seemed they were offering that labor for free too. I >couldn't stay but will bring it back this week. Looks like you found a GOOD Shop. Consider yourself lucky. Stick with em, but don't pat them on the back too hard or they'll begin to believe their own publicity ;-)
I've come across places like this before. They do excellent work and are more than fair about the price. Reward them with your customer loyalty.
Lg
RobH - 12 Jun 2006 11:09 GMT > Looks like you found a GOOD Shop. Consider yourself lucky. Stick > with em, but don't pat them on the back too hard or they'll begin to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > are more than fair about the price. Reward them with your customer > loyalty. Overall I'm happy with them, their willingness to follow up for basically nothing - not doubling up the ball joint labor AND compensating me for the first ball joint part - is more than I've seen for a very long time, and I've been having cars serviced for 40 years. I will be loyal now unless something happens.
But, I didn't mention before... I called this place first when the steering wheel problem arose. At first I think they thought I was blaming them, and they went into avoidance mode, not returning calls. Persisting, I finally got them, and they could only schedule me 10 days out. Not good, so I called around and got another place to take it in much quicker. However, once the boss there realized I'd just had a ball joint done, he didn't want to get involved, citing liability, and told me to take it back to the ball joint mechanic. Then I called the latter, saying I didn't think it was the ball joint, but telling the story of this other guy's liability concern. Within 5 minutes, it was "bring it right in"!
So, it looks like I both pacified them and injected the liability issue before they came around and provided this good service. Reputation, publicity, whatever. Human nature.
Lawrence Glickman - 12 Jun 2006 11:59 GMT >> Looks like you found a GOOD Shop. Consider yourself lucky. Stick >> with em, but don't pat them on the back too hard or they'll begin to [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >before they came around and provided this good service. Reputation, >publicity, whatever. Human nature. Quality Service, or lack thereof, is not a constant. IOW, the same shop probably will have a turnover of personnel, and what once was shitto, could today be a good place to do business, and it works the other way around also.
People don't stay in the same place. Even businesses move. So going by past experience is no guarantee anybody is going to get a similar result *today.* Certainly managers come and go like clockwork. Same with salesmen, same with service department techs. Nothing stays the same.
So I see you had to coerce them into being *good guys* with the threat of a lawsuit or somesuch. No matter, it is your life on the line, you're the one who stands to lose if the front end goes South while the rest of the vehicle goes North.
Fact of the matter is, everyone and every business is expendable. If one place doesn't cut it, go elsewhere.
I figure if one monkey can turn a wrench, so can I. So I save tons of bucks by doing my own work. Then again, I have an *official* service manual to tell me what to do. Then again, it is going to take me 10 times longer to do the work because many things I do to this vehicle are new to me, having driven older cars all my life, or company cars which got serviced under contract.
The limiting factor being: I don't have the _equipment_ to do a front end alignment. No way I ever will. So like it or not, such things are farmed out. Nor have I ever done a front end alignment, or seen it done step by step. Nor have I ever messed with changing balljoints, CV joints, half axles, or anything else having to do with the suspension. Nobody, can do everything. Time comes for front end work, I'll call up my insurance company and see whom -they- recommend in my area.
All the other stuff...maybe I can do it...maybe not. If you don't have the gear/tools/instructions, consider it impossible from a DIY standpoint.
I usually can get a pretty good idea about what is within my capabilities by going through the service manual proceedure, and seeing what tools and techniques are required. For example, changing my radiator someday is going to be a PITA, but it can be done in my driveway or garage, saving me $700 in labor fees. That is a lot of moolah, and worth a few scraped knuckles.
That is 6 months worth of savings for me. Even if it took me 6 days to do the job, I would come out miles ahead by doing the job myself.
Lg
RobH - 12 Jun 2006 15:09 GMT > So I see you had to coerce them into being *good guys* with the threat > of a lawsuit or somesuch. Hi again Lawrence,
I didn't exactly coerce, threaten or even *directly* say "you're liable". I took the indirect, "friendly" approach of quoting the other mechanic refusing work due to liability. Probably worked better that way.
As for the rest of your post, first, yes, change is the only constant, and second, I only wish I could do some of my own work for both money and the satisfaction of independance. Too many joint problems, too few tools to even learn.
Knifeblade_03 - 11 Jun 2006 15:52 GMT Just glad you seem to have repaired the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!
 Signature Knifeblade_03
http://www.automotiveforums.com
|
|
|