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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / June 2006

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steering wheel suddenly moved 45 degrees, now cocked

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RobH - 05 Jun 2006 08:59 GMT
I was driving my 96 Mazda 626 on the interstate, at about 70mph, on a
gradual curve. I think I hit a small bump, maybe an expansion joint,
when suddenly I heard a small soft thunk and my steering wheel suddenly
moved left in my hands - but the car kept going where I'd been
pointing. Alarmed, I pulled over to the breakdown lane, slowed down to
about 30, put on my flashers. But the car seemed to steer just as well
as before, only now the wheel was cocked 45 degrees left. I drove home
about 10 miles on back streets going slow with flashers on, but there
were no more events. Of course this happened on Saturday afternoon, so
calls to about 6 mechanics just got machines.

There's a little steering gear context which may or may not be directly
related. A month ago (only about 150 miles) it needed a new lower right
ball joint to pass inspection. As soon as that was done I noticed soft
thunking/clicking from the gear when turning corners. The mechanic took
a close look and said it was my upper strut mounts and bearings. The
car has 159k miles. He said a $300 job (which I'd have to put on a
credit card). I asked if it was the sort of thing that could result in
a sudden loss of steering or a real safety concern. He said it was more
like the gradual wear of brakes or a clutch, that I'd be able to sense
when it was getting bad, and meanwhile I could drive if I just put up
with the creaking on corners. That was only about 75 miles ago.
Lawrence Glickman - 05 Jun 2006 09:29 GMT
>I was driving my 96 Mazda 626 on the interstate, at about 70mph, on a
>gradual curve. I think I hit a small bump, maybe an expansion joint,
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>when it was getting bad, and meanwhile I could drive if I just put up
>with the creaking on corners. That was only about 75 miles ago.

I don't know this car.  Does it have rack and pinion steering?  If so,
you've got some loose parts in that area.  Something like the pinion
jumped a tooth on the rack, or somesuch.  Something is LOOSE.  You can
get under the car and check that out.

Lg
Kevin - 05 Jun 2006 10:35 GMT
> >I was driving my 96 Mazda 626 on the interstate, at about 70mph, on a
> >gradual curve. I think I hit a small bump, maybe an expansion joint,
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Lg

1. It is possible that the upper strut mount has failed and the strut has
move out of place.

2. The rubber bushing that mount the steering gear may have failed and the
entire rack and pinion steering gear has shifted over.

3. The pinion preload adjustment on the steering gear may have come loose
and allowed the internal rack to jump some teeth on the pinion gear.

All of these conditions would require hoisting the car on a lift for
inspection by a mechanic who knows what to look for.
All of these conditions are potentially dangerous and the car should be
towed to the nearest repair facility for repair.
Signature

Kevin Mouton
Automotive Technology Instructor
"If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy"
Red Green

RobH - 05 Jun 2006 13:32 GMT
> All of these conditions are potentially dangerous and the car should be
> towed to the nearest repair facility for repair.

Thanks Kevin, all good info to know, especially this last, and I will
have it towed.
RobH - 05 Jun 2006 13:52 GMT
Kevin, or it it Lawrence?

Looking at these possibilities (and not knowing cars), it occurs to me
that they look pretty serious, especially given your towing
recommendation. It makes me wonder if you were paying primary attention
to the 'event' and the 45 degrees but paying little to the fact that
the car still went straight down the road, responding correctly too,
for a ten mile ride home. I mean how could that be if one of these
conditions is true?

I'm also wondering about repair costs. I don't expect an idea about
parts prices, but what about a ballpark on hours of labor? Isn't that
something you can look up in a book?

TIA
* - 05 Jun 2006 14:44 GMT
RobH <henerey@gmail.com> wrote in article
<1149511939.843387.17180@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>...
> Kevin, or it it Lawrence?
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> for a ten mile ride home. I mean how could that be if one of these
> conditions is true?

Nothing quite like insulting the intelligence and intention of
knowledgeable people who are trying to help you to NOT crash your dumb a.s
- and possibly take out innocent bystanders in the
process..........especially when stating in the reply that you do not know
what you are talking about!!!!
RobH - 05 Jun 2006 15:34 GMT
> Nothing quite like insulting the intelligence and intention of
> knowledgeable people who are trying to help you to NOT crash your dumb a.s
> - and possibly take out innocent bystanders in the
> process..........especially when stating in the reply that you do not know
> what you are talking about!!!!

Sorry it came across that way. I help people with computers a bit, and
there have been many times when I focused on one thing I heard and in
my rush to help somehow missed the other part of what they were saying.
To me this seems like a common enough type of occurance in all walks of
life. I was just double checking.
Kevin - 05 Jun 2006 23:05 GMT
> > Nothing quite like insulting the intelligence and intention of
> > knowledgeable people who are trying to help you to NOT crash your dumb a.s
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> To me this seems like a common enough type of occurance in all walks of
> life. I was just double checking.

Just to be double sure... Anytime the steering wheel takes a 45 degree
offset while driving, there is a serious condition that might result in loss
of steering control, even if it seems fine now.

Signature

Kevin Mouton
Automotive Technology Instructor
"If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy"
Red Green

RobH - 05 Jun 2006 23:50 GMT
Thanks again Kevin!
RobH - 09 Jun 2006 16:33 GMT
The mechanic who did the lower right ball joint looked at the car this
morning and I just got a call saying I need a lower right control arm
and sway bar. They said on the phone, "no labor charge, just parts".
Huh? So I asked why. "Well, we had to look at the ball joint anyway,
and you've been having a lot of hassle with the car". Parts cost? $191.

Hmm, sounds like they might be feeling guilty about something, or just
b.s.'ing me in some way? After looking up the parts on the web, that
$191 sounds like it should be parts AND labor anyway, so maybe they're
just wanting me to feel good about it.?
Lawrence Glickman - 09 Jun 2006 21:59 GMT
>The mechanic who did the lower right ball joint looked at the car this
>morning and I just got a call saying I need a lower right control arm
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>$191 sounds like it should be parts AND labor anyway, so maybe they're
>just wanting me to feel good about it.?

You can check that by yourself, by jacking the car and seeing if you
can grab the wheel/tire ass'y and move it along vertical and
horizontal axis.  If you can, you've got trouble ( I don't mean rotate
it, I mean try to push/pull in and out ).  If it is *rock solid* like
it should be, not a hint of wobble no matter how hard you try, then
somebody is bs'ing you.

Basic car maintenance 101, which I the class I'm in at the moment, but
that much I know.

Lg
RobH - 11 Jun 2006 12:43 GMT
You can check that by yourself, by jacking the car and seeing if you
> can grab the wheel/tire ass'y and move it along vertical and
> horizontal axis.  If you can, you've got trouble ( I don't mean rotate
> it, I mean try to push/pull in and out ).  If it is *rock solid* like
> it should be, not a hint of wobble no matter how hard you try, then
> somebody is bs'ing you.

Thanks, Lawrence. I ended up taking their word for it, and ended up
getting charged $141 instead of $191. Not only no labor $ but a
discount on the control arm because it came as a unit WITH a ball
joint, and they didn't want to see me buying 2 lower right ball joints
when just the control arm would have done. I guess they think they
should have spotted the bad control arm when they were doing the ball
joint. I'll never really know. They didn't do a sway bar but a sway bar
link.

When I drove out, the steering wheel is still not straight, but now
it's only 5-10 degrees left instead of 45. I drove right back in and
they said it needed an alignment now and I could wait while they did it
or come back. It seemed they were offering that labor for free too. I
couldn't stay but will bring it back this week.
Lawrence Glickman - 11 Jun 2006 15:57 GMT
> You can check that by yourself, by jacking the car and seeing if you
>> can grab the wheel/tire ass'y and move it along vertical and
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>or come back. It seemed they were offering that labor for free too. I
>couldn't stay but will bring it back this week.

Looks like you found a GOOD Shop.  Consider yourself lucky.  Stick
with em, but don't pat them on the back too hard or they'll begin to
believe their own publicity ;-)

I've come across places like this before.  They do excellent work and
are more than fair about the price.  Reward them with your customer
loyalty.

Lg
RobH - 12 Jun 2006 11:09 GMT
> Looks like you found a GOOD Shop.  Consider yourself lucky.  Stick
> with em, but don't pat them on the back too hard or they'll begin to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> are more than fair about the price.  Reward them with your customer
> loyalty.

Overall I'm happy with them, their willingness to follow up for
basically nothing - not doubling up the ball joint labor AND
compensating me for the first ball joint part - is more than I've seen
for a very long time, and I've been having cars serviced for 40 years.
I will be loyal now unless something happens.

But, I didn't mention before... I called this place first when the
steering wheel problem arose. At first I think they thought I was
blaming them, and they went into avoidance mode, not returning calls.
Persisting, I finally got them, and they could only schedule me 10 days
out. Not good, so I called around and got another place to take it in
much quicker. However, once the boss there realized I'd just had a ball
joint done, he didn't want to get involved, citing liability, and told
me to take it back to the ball joint mechanic. Then I called the
latter, saying I didn't think it was the ball joint, but telling the
story of this other guy's liability concern. Within 5 minutes, it was
"bring it right in"!

So, it looks like I both pacified them and injected the liability issue
before they came around and provided this good service. Reputation,
publicity, whatever. Human nature.
Lawrence Glickman - 12 Jun 2006 11:59 GMT
>> Looks like you found a GOOD Shop.  Consider yourself lucky.  Stick
>> with em, but don't pat them on the back too hard or they'll begin to
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>before they came around and provided this good service. Reputation,
>publicity, whatever. Human nature.

Quality Service, or lack thereof, is not a constant.  IOW, the same
shop probably will have a turnover of personnel, and what once was
shitto, could today be a good place to do business, and it works the
other way around also.

People don't stay in the same place.  Even businesses move.  So going
by past experience is no guarantee anybody is going to get a similar
result *today.*  Certainly managers come and go like clockwork.  Same
with salesmen, same with service department techs.  Nothing stays the
same.

So I see you had to coerce them into being *good guys* with the threat
of a lawsuit or somesuch.  No matter, it is your life on the line,
you're the one who stands to lose if the front end goes South while
the rest of the vehicle goes North.

Fact of the matter is, everyone and every business is expendable.  If
one place doesn't cut it, go elsewhere.

I figure if one monkey can turn a wrench, so can I.  So I save tons of
bucks by doing my own work.  Then again, I have an *official* service
manual to tell me what to do.  Then again, it is going to take me 10
times longer to do the work because many things I do to this vehicle
are new to me, having driven older cars all my life, or company cars
which got serviced under contract.

The limiting factor being: I don't have the _equipment_ to do a front
end alignment.  No way I ever will.  So like it or not, such things
are farmed out.  Nor have I ever done a front end alignment, or seen
it done step by step.  Nor have I ever messed with changing
balljoints, CV joints, half axles, or anything else having to do with
the suspension.  Nobody, can do everything.  Time comes for front end
work, I'll call up my insurance company and see whom -they- recommend
in my area.

All the other stuff...maybe I can do it...maybe not.  If you don't
have the gear/tools/instructions, consider it impossible from a DIY
standpoint.

I usually can get a pretty good idea about what is within my
capabilities by going through the service manual proceedure, and
seeing what tools and techniques are required.  For example, changing
my radiator someday is going to be a PITA, but it can be done in my
driveway or garage, saving me $700 in labor fees.  That is a lot of
moolah, and worth a few scraped knuckles.

That is 6 months worth of savings for me.  Even if it took me 6 days
to do the job, I would come out miles ahead by doing the job myself.

Lg
RobH - 12 Jun 2006 15:09 GMT
> So I see you had to coerce them into being *good guys* with the threat
> of a lawsuit or somesuch.

Hi again Lawrence,

I didn't exactly coerce, threaten or even *directly* say "you're
liable". I took the indirect, "friendly" approach of quoting the other
mechanic refusing work due to liability. Probably worked better that
way.

As for the rest of your post, first, yes, change is the only constant,
and second, I only wish I could do some of my own work for both money
and the satisfaction of independance. Too many joint problems, too few
tools to even learn.
Knifeblade_03 - 11 Jun 2006 15:52 GMT
Just glad you seem to have repaired the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Knifeblade_03

http://www.automotiveforums.com

 
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