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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / June 2006

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New carb on '85 Corolla, pass emissions?

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Masospaghetti - 06 Jun 2006 03:03 GMT
Hey all - I may have posted this a while back, I can't remember, so my
apologies if I have. Car is a 1985 Corolla SR5, 221k miles. Runs well
but uses about a quart of oil every 3000 miles.

I want to put a Weber carb on it to increase the horsepower, right now
it's making 70 hp (flywheel). What i'm worried about is the emission
controls - the current carb has lots of vacuum lines running to a
variety of sensors and whatever. Weber told me that "these will be
plugged off, cleaning up the underhood area".

Will this make me fail emissions? Or can I still hook up some of this
stuff somehow?

Thanks!

(The exact carb I want to install is a 32/36 Weber 2-barrel, replacing
an Aisin 2-barrel.)
Don - 06 Jun 2006 06:01 GMT
>Hey all - I may have posted this a while back, I can't remember, so my
>apologies if I have. Car is a 1985 Corolla SR5, 221k miles. Runs well
>but uses about a quart of oil every 3000 miles.
>
>I want to put a Weber carb on it to increase the horsepower,

You will probably be disappointed unless you have many other
modfications.  The noisy unfmuffled air filter housing I expect you
will use will cause a "honking" on wide open throttle and may make you
think there is a power increase.

> right now it's making 70 hp (flywheel). What i'm worried about is the emission
>controls - the current carb has lots of vacuum lines running to a
>variety of sensors and whatever. Weber told me that "these will be
>plugged off, cleaning up the underhood area".
>
>Will this make me fail emissions?

Anywhere with a half serious serious program it will.

> Or can I still hook up some of this
>stuff somehow?

Chances are slim to none.  That carburetor has ports all over.  Some
are manifold vacuum, some tip in at different throttle openings.

Don
www.donsautomotive.com

>Thanks!
>
>(The exact carb I want to install is a 32/36 Weber 2-barrel, replacing
>an Aisin 2-barrel.)
Masospaghetti - 08 Jun 2006 04:59 GMT
>> Hey all - I may have posted this a while back, I can't remember, so my
>> apologies if I have. Car is a 1985 Corolla SR5, 221k miles. Runs well
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> will use will cause a "honking" on wide open throttle and may make you
> think there is a power increase.

Paradise Racing (www.paradiseracing.com) quotes a Weber carb,
performance cam, and new valve springs at "over 40 hp increase". I don't
think i'm quite ready to take apart the head but feel comfortable with
installing a new carb, I had to rebuild the one on there now. Even if it
gives me 10 hp, its supposed to give better fuel economy and 10 hp is a
pretty big gain.

And if the noise is similar to a EFI system with a cold air intake, then
I actually like the sound a lot.

>> right now it's making 70 hp (flywheel). What i'm worried about is the emission
>> controls - the current carb has lots of vacuum lines running to a
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Don
> www.donsautomotive.com

What would be your recommendation if I wanted to get a little more power
out of this car?

>> Thanks!
>>
>> (The exact carb I want to install is a 32/36 Weber 2-barrel, replacing
>> an Aisin 2-barrel.)
Don - 09 Jun 2006 03:05 GMT
>>> Hey all - I may have posted this a while back, I can't remember, so my
>>> apologies if I have. Car is a 1985 Corolla SR5, 221k miles. Runs well
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>Paradise Racing (www.paradiseracing.com) quotes a Weber carb,
>performance cam, and new valve springs at "over 40 hp increase".

Probably an extravagant claim.

> I don't  think i'm quite ready to take apart the head but feel comfortable with
>installing a new carb, I had to rebuild the one on there now. Even if it
>gives me 10 hp,

Without supporting modifications -- probably no increase at all!

> its supposed to give better fuel economy

Will probably be the same or a slight decrease.

> and 10 hp is a
>pretty big gain.
>
>And if the noise is similar to a EFI system with a cold air intake, then
>I actually like the sound a lot.

Lots of people do.  And the noises helps convince them that there are
power or gas mileage increase when, in fact, there are not.

>>> right now it's making 70 hp (flywheel). What i'm worried about is the emission
>>> controls - the current carb has lots of vacuum lines running to a
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>>> (The exact carb I want to install is a 32/36 Weber 2-barrel, replacing
>>> an Aisin 2-barrel.)
larry moe 'n curly - 08 Jun 2006 23:37 GMT
> Hey all - I may have posted this a while back, I can't remember, so my
> apologies if I have. Car is a 1985 Corolla SR5, 221k miles. Runs well
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> variety of sensors and whatever. Weber told me that "these will be
> plugged off, cleaning up the underhood area".

All those vacuum-operated things seem to keep the engine from ever
stalling or hesitating.  Also how can the underhood area be cleaned up
when most of the vacuum lines are just short hoses that attach to metal
tubes?

I installed an A/C clutch cut-off so the compressor isn't engaged
during acceleration.  With 70 HP it makes a noticeable difference.  BTW
doesn't your engine develop 70 HP at the tires, and more at the
flywheel?
Masospaghetti - 09 Jun 2006 01:49 GMT
>> Hey all - I may have posted this a while back, I can't remember, so my
>> apologies if I have. Car is a 1985 Corolla SR5, 221k miles. Runs well
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> when most of the vacuum lines are just short hoses that attach to metal
> tubes?

That's just what the guy told me. I don't care about "cleaning it up", I
just want better acceleration and fuel economy.

I agree that many of them keep the engine running smoothly. However,
since the Weber was designed to be used without them, would it be fine
on it's own?

> I installed an A/C clutch cut-off so the compressor isn't engaged
> during acceleration.  With 70 HP it makes a noticeable difference.  BTW
> doesn't your engine develop 70 HP at the tires, and more at the
> flywheel?

I don't think so. I have the original brochure for the car, makes 70HP @
4800 RPM, 82 lbs-ft @ 2800 RPM. I also tested it with my little cheap
accelermeter and it recorded 56 HP at the wheel, which I guess is
reasonable.

How difficult was it to install the clutch cut-off? I actually don't
notice much difference in performance with the A/C on, much less so than
with my brother's CRX.
larry moe 'n curly - 10 Jun 2006 04:02 GMT
> Car is a 1985 Corolla SR5, 221k miles. Runs well but uses about
> a quart of oil every 3000 miles.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> since the Weber was designed to be used without them, would it be fine
> on it's own?

> > BTW doesn't your engine develop 70 HP at the tires, and more at the
> > flywheel?

> I don't think so. I have the original brochure for the car, makes 70HP @
> 4800 RPM, 82 lbs-ft @ 2800 RPM. I also tested it with my little cheap
> accelermeter and it recorded 56 HP at the wheel, which I guess is
> reasonable.

I thought that for decades the U.S. government has required car makers
to state HP at the wheels because previously car makers gave inflated
numbers.  What's the weight of your car in kilograms divided by the
0-66 acceleration time in seconds?  That's supposed to give the net HP.
Also did you have the hesitation fix installed?  In FWD Corollas it
consists of adding a restrictor to one of the EGR vacuum ports,
changing the accelerator pump lever and a couple of jets, and raising
the float level to the top of the gap in the window.

Will a Weber 32-36 give much of an improvement?  Because the Aisin for
my 4-AC engine is 30-34 (I don't know if that's the proper measurement
-- I took a ruler to one of the carb gaskets).  Also how can a
performance carburetor give equal drivability if most of the vacuum
controls, the oxygen sensor control, and the primary barrel cut-off
solenoid are disconnected, unless you run a richer mixture, which may
not be good for fuel economy?

> How difficult was it to install the clutch cut-off? I actually don't
> notice much difference in performance with the A/C on, much less so than
> with my brother's CRX.

I think that my 0-60 time worsened by 3-4 seconds when the A/C
compressor ran.  :(

J.C. Whitney may still sell an adjustable  vacuum-operated switch for
this purpose, but I used a mechanical switch hooked up to the throttle
pedal lever because then I could keep everything inside the passenger
compartment, away from the weather.  If you use a vacuum switch or have
a manual transmission, you'll have to add something to keep the A/C
clutch disengaged for at least 1-2 seconds each time the switch is
triggered, or else the clutch will chatter each time the transmission
shifts.  For the vacuum switch a time delay can be made from a vacuum
chamber, check valve, and air bleed (bypasses the check valve and sets
the amount of time delay), or you can have the switch control a time
delay relay, which will also work with the mechanical switch.  However
I had problems finding time delay relays that weren't expensive or that
worked on 12V (almost all needed 24V), so I simply built a time delay
and had it control a relay.  I chose a normally closed relay so its
coil was energized only when I wanted the A/C clutch turned off,
thinking this would put less wear on the circuitry (I'm in Arizona,
where car interiors can reach 160F).  I also wired a toggle switch to
bypass the relay in case something failed.  If you use a mechanical
switch on the throttle pedal linkage, mount it on the top or side so it
doesn't interfere with pedal travel.  I used a microswitch with a long
lever and mounted it on the side of the lever.

It may be practical to use the existing throttle position switch,
especially if you have the 3-4 position type or a throttle position
sensor, but be careful to buffer its output to avoid loading it down
and screwing up the computer.
 
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