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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / Maintenance and Repair / June 2006Baffled - carburator problem (4-stroke outboard engine)
Hopefully someone has a thought on this. The engine has four carbs. It is a four stroke 100HP. The engine will not start. A few days before the problem occured I used the boat for about 2 hours chasing stripers around the bay. The engines were turned on and off at least a dozen times. They seemed to be running just fine at the time. The next time I went to start the engines they started right up. However one of them would not idle. I tried to start it again and it started, rev'ed up but quickly stalled and would not start again. To find out while troubleshooting, I am getting plenty of gas pumped to the carbs by the two fuel pumps. But, (and this is the odd part) the float bowls are all empty. Not one or two or even three but all four! If I remove the hose that feeds the carburetor and remove the float bowl drain screw and blow into the hose as hard as I can it is apparent that the path is blocked (on all four carbs). I perform this same experiment on the good engine and I can blow air right pass the needle valve and out the drain. What could cause all four channels to clog simultaneously? If I have to take the carburetors off, of course I will. But all four are an assembly and not a trivial thing to do. Any thoughts, --Mike >Hopefully someone has a thought on this. > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >Any thoughts, >--Mike Using a can of carb cleaner with the tube that fits the can, blast some carb cleaner through the supply lines. Do you have a fuel filter that has collapsed/clogged? Too many questions...no answers. Check your fuel filter and blow the carb cleaner through the lines to clean out the gunk to the float bowls. Lg The clog is only present at the carb itself. I checked the in line fuel filter and it appeared clean. There was no sign of any debris. Assuming that it would take a large amount of sludge/dirt to totally clog all four needle valve assemblies simultaneously it doesn't appear that the problem is dirt. I'd think there would b e evidence in the filter. There would hve to be enough of it to totally inhibit fuel flow passed all four needle valves. > >Hopefully someone has a thought on this. > > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Lg >The clog is only present at the carb itself. I checked the in line >fuel filter and it appeared clean. There was no sign of any debris. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >filter. There would hve to be enough of it to totally inhibit fuel flow >passed all four needle valves. You've got a pinched fuel line then. You say yourself you can't blow through it? Find the restriction. Or just as a temporary fix, run some new flex fuel line from the fuel pump to the carbs. Lg >> >Hopefully someone has a thought on this. >> > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >> >> Lg >>> >If I remove the hose that feeds the carburetor and remove the float >>> >bowl drain screw and blow into the hose as hard as I can it is apparent >>> >that the path is blocked (on all four carbs). I perform this same >>> >experiment on the good engine and I can blow air right pass the needle >>> >valve and out the drain. pull the hose you can't blow through and ream it with a dowel or coat hanger. flush it clean. reinstall or replace with new. Thanks Lawrence, but the odd thing is that there are four seperate clogged hoses. It's not one hose. And, being an outboard, the only way to remove the hose, believe it or not, is to remove all four carburetors, air baffles and intake manifolds. A real nightmare. I just want to make sure I have exhausted all options before I undertake such a job. I know I'd be looking at 1000-2000 dollars to pass this problem on to the local 100+ dollar an hour mariner. I think I'm going to buy a set of golf clubs. > >>> >If I remove the hose that feeds the carburetor and remove the float > >>> >bowl drain screw and blow into the hose as hard as I can it is apparent [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > pull the hose you can't blow through and ream it with a dowel or coat > hanger. flush it clean. reinstall or replace with new. >Thanks Lawrence, but the odd thing is that there are four seperate >clogged hoses. It's not one hose. And, being an outboard, the only way [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >I think I'm going to buy a set of golf clubs. A boat is a hole in the water into which you throw your money. OTOH, if I were you, I wouldn't despair. I have come across few things in life that couldn't be disassembled. It is getting it all back together that is the bitch ;-\ I don't know where you are, but I bet a bottle of A&W root beer and a bag of ice that I could get those hoses out of there in under 30 minutes, and new one's installed in under another 30 minutes. They don't have to be steel lines. Hi temp fuel hose is available everywhere, and you are only pushing 65 psi through it at the most anyhow. Your biggest worry is routing it so it doesn't get abraided or melted. I should know...I've been running my own fuel lines for my landscaping equipment for decades. Cost? Under $10 U.S. not counting labor. Forget the 1000-2000 baloney. You can fix this problem yourself with the loose change I have in my back pocket. Believe it. I have $5.20 US in my back pocket. Lg >> >>> >If I remove the hose that feeds the carburetor and remove the float >> >>> >bowl drain screw and blow into the hose as hard as I can it is apparent [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> pull the hose you can't blow through and ream it with a dowel or coat >> hanger. flush it clean. reinstall or replace with new. > Hopefully someone has a thought on this. > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Any thoughts, > --Mike I have a few: 1: This isn't probably the best group to ask outboard motor questions on. 2: If you are going to ask at least list the year and brand of your motor 3: If none of your carbs are getting fuel look at something that is common to all of them.... pump, filter, or maybe a hole in the line to the tank? Do both engines draw off the same tank? The more info you give the more help you will get. 4: Glickman is an idiot, don't bother reaming any fuel lines with coat hangers or any such stupidity..... A lean running 2 stroke will quickly destroy itself. If you can't find the problem yourself you're better off to pay an expert to figure it out than to burn it down. Good luck Bob >> Hopefully someone has a thought on this. >> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >4: Glickman is an idiot, don't bother reaming any fuel lines with coat >hangers or any such stupidity Of course not. Go right to Bob's shop where he can vacuum you wallet clean! Including the credit cards! >..... A lean running 2 stroke will quickly >destroy itself. If you can't find the problem yourself you're better off to >pay an expert to figure it out than to burn it down. > >Good luck > Bob Bite me >>> Hopefully someone has a thought on this. >>> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >Of course not. Go right to Bob's shop where he can vacuum you wallet >clean! Including the credit cards! ============================================================== >>..... A lean running 2 stroke will quickly >>destroy itself. Read the title of the thread YOU MORON. It's a 4 stroke, not a 2, you IDIOT! > If you can't find the problem yourself you're better off to >>pay an expert to figure it out than to burn it down. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Bite me <SNIP> >>Bite me ...Cuz a.shole, stalker, netkooks suck! ><SNIP> >>>Bite me > >...Cuz a.shole, stalker, netkooks suck! You should commit suicide, because continuing to pop out NITWITS like Bob is destroying this Nation, and is pulling everyone's IQ down with it. Lg ><SNIP> >>>Bite me > >...Cuz a.shole, stalker, netkooks suck! If marshmallow is going to try to slime me on the net, he will get twice in return what he does to me. I never did anything to him, that other's before me haven't done, as you can find out for yourself. He is abusive and argumentative. So am I if I think I have a worthy opponent. He started this...I'll finish it. Lg I thank all those who helped. When I get to the bottom of this I will send a reply. It's a bit of a mystery. Taking it apart will obvioulsy solve the mystery. The optimist in me was hoping I'd find a more simple solution. Looks like once the rain clears the wrenches will be flying. My best guess at this point (someone suggested this to me) is internal debris, possibly from one of the fuel pumps (there are two but there is a balancing hose connecting them) lodged itself into all the needle valve ports clogging all the carbs. Possibly a corroded diaphram. > ><SNIP> > >>>Bite me [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Lg >I thank all those who helped. When I get to the bottom of this I will >send a reply. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >a balancing hose connecting them) lodged itself into all the needle >valve ports clogging all the carbs. Possibly a corroded diaphram. Sometimes the hardest part of any job is just getting started on it. Once you build up some momentum, you'll have it fixed in no time at all. Think of it as a learning experience. Lg ======= ======= > If marshmallow is going to try to slime me on the net, he will get > twice in return what he does to me. > > Lg ======= ======= Is that right.....larry duh dickman.....!! well...... go dig up some of MY past posts and see if you can find me out there in hyperspace acting like YOU...... yer a perverted racist lard assed blowhard. Fact~NOT FICTION!!! ~:~ MARSH MONSTER ~ggggrrrrrrrrrr~ ~:~ >======= >======= [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Fact~NOT FICTION!!! I'll pass along a factoid which you'll immediately dismiss, but I feel it is worth mentioning anyhow. You are a coward. You hide under women's skirts ( anonymity ) and make threats and agitate holding your mommy's dress over your head so you can't be seen. I don't bother with cowards, so consider yourself *safe*. Lg >~:~ >MARSH MONSTER >~ggggrrrrrrrrrr~ >~:~ ======= ======= > You hide under women's skirts ( anonymity ) and make threats and > agitate holding your mommy's dress over your head so you can't be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Lg ======== ======== You know Dickman, therapist say that associating YOUR dark secrets on someone else is one of the last signs before complete insanity. fact~not fiction. And........larry duhdickman, not to worry.......I feel extremely safe, no worry........ no bother........... no over the shoulder glances............... even in spite of the thread you started in an attempt to prove to yerself that you had narrowed down my location....... you're diagnostic abilities were once AGAIN proven to be less than capable in that thread........rotfflmao@larry duhdickman. hey larry..... I've noticed that your recent posts have been somewhat............ well........... less agressive............... since we met. rotfflmao@paranoid dickman......because he knows all the perverted racist sheet he's got floating around in hyperspace is being forwarded to others.......... i make me laugh. so does dickman. ~:~ Marsh Monster ~reaches down next to the baitwell, grabs his dull rusty gaff.............. no need to use the good one on a fish that can't fight~ ~:~ >You are a coward. >You hide under women's skirts ( anonymity ) and make threats and >agitate holding your mommy's dress over your head so you can't be >seen. >I don't bother with cowards, so consider yourself *safe*. >Lg Argueing on USENET is like being in the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still a retard. >>You are a coward. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Argueing on USENET is like being in the special olympics. Even >if you win, you're still a retard. Are you arguing with me? ====== ====== > >>You are a coward. > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Are you arguing with me? ======= ======= dickman......... use yer spellcheck. and...... I'm not argueing........ I'm fishing. ~:~ MarshMonster ~pours a little crown in his coffee~ ~:~ Update: I pulled off the carbs and dropped the bowls. Apparently there is enough gas contamination to have adhered the needle valve to the needle valve seat. This is the only explanation I can come up with. There was no visible contamination on either the valve or the seat but there was a sticky brownish substance on the surface of the carb where it meets the air baffle and (on the other side) the intake manifold. Having seen this substance I assume it was also on the neeedle valve and valve seat effectively glueing the two together. I cleaned the carbs with carb cleaner, reinstalled them and the engine started and idled. The needle valve, by the way, is a rubbery material it is not a metal. I'm still a bit disturbed because for one thing, I only winterize the boat a relatively short off-season compared to many boaters (maybe 4 months tops). But more significiantly I had run the boat already this year and it seemed to run just fine. I used a gas stabilizer (although I went much richer then recommended because I was going to add more fuel during the winter and never got around to it). I ran the engines with the stabilizer so that the treated gas would have ample time to have gone through the system. Thanks for all your help. > ====== > ====== [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > ~pours a little crown in his coffee~ > ~:~ I like the saying that two skunks in a pissing contest both come out stinking.. Kevin > >You are a coward. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Argueing on USENET is like being in the special olympics. Even > if you win, you're still a retard. ======= ======= > If marshmallow is going to try to slime me on the net, he will get > twice in return what he does to me. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Lg ======== ======== YOU..........NEVER........did anything to me???????????????????????? hey larry duhdickman........... you lardassed, perverted, racist, blowhard........... how bout if I'm AfricanAmerican........??????? You know dickman, you've got a lot of reeeeeelly bad sheet out there in hyperspace floating around that you've spouted off about, in some reeeeeeelllly wierd newsgroups...(weird to me anywhooo) remember dickman....??...me telling you i was gonna spend the 4 days wondering around hyperspace reposting all yer profane, racist, perverted spewing forth of ignorant minded bullshit....?? rotfflmfao@larry duhdickman......... now larry....yer a poplular guy...lmao!!!!!!!!!! here...... here's another Blast From yer Past........... ~:~ MARSH MONSTER ~ggggrrrrrrrrrrr~ ~:~ ========== ========== From: Lawrence Glickman - view profile Date: Sun, Jun 4 2006 8:45 pm Email: Lawrence Glickman <Lawrence_Glick...@comcast.net> Groups: soc.men, misc.survivalism, alt.politics.immigration, alt.rush-limbaugh, soc.culture.usa Not yet ratedRating: hide options Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse | Find messages by this author On 4 Jun 2006 17:46:29 -0700, "edi...@netpath.net" What determines which tribes survive and which don't has a lot to do with which tribes outbreed the other tribes. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. It's all about out-f.cking your contenders. Non-whites are chronic f.ckers. In fact, aside from sleeping, eating, and sh.tting, popping out niglets is all they do. Lg m.s. Reply » Rate this post: Text for clearing space ========== ========== > > Hopefully someone has a thought on this. > > > > The engine has four carbs. It is a four stroke 100HP. > A lean running 2 stroke will quickly > destroy itself. If you can't find the problem yourself you're better off to > pay an expert to figure it out than to burn it down. Let's hope that "expert" reads and comprehends better than YOU do! > > > Hopefully someone has a thought on this. > > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Let's hope that "expert" reads and comprehends better than YOU do! Are you saying that lean running will not hurt a 4 stroke? aarcuda69062 <nonelson@sbcglobal.net> wrote in article <nonelson-08C491.11583907062006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>... > > > > Hopefully someone has a thought on this. > > > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > > > Let's hope that "expert" reads and comprehends better than YOU do! > Are you saying that lean running will not hurt a 4 stroke? Why do you insist on putting words in people's mouths? I was merely pointing out that he was thinking it was - and, apparently, diagnosing it as - a two-stroke when in fact it was a four-stroke. If someone were to ask a question concerning a gasoline engine, and the answer came back, "A plugged diesel injector would cause a cylinder to miss...".....would YOU consider that to be a sensible answer? While a plugged fuel injector would certainly cause a gasoline engine to also miss, the diesel-oriented answer is non-sensical - suggesting that the person commenting was not in tune with the situation......much the same as a two-stroke-oriented comment while discussing a four-stroke problem. .....Here's your sign!........ And, yes, I DO believe a lean-running two-stroke will destroy itself much quicker than a lean-running four-stroke..... Four-strokes are not at all dependent on fuel/air mixture for lower-end and cylinder wall lubrication as the two-strokes are...... > > Are you saying that lean running will not hurt a 4 stroke? > > Why do you insist on putting words in people's mouths? I didn't put words in anyones mouth, I asked a question. > I was merely pointing out that he was thinking it was - and, apparently, > diagnosing it as - a two-stroke when in fact it was a four-stroke. Irrelevant when the symptom observed is carburetor float bowls that won't fill up with fuel. > If someone were to ask a question concerning a gasoline engine, and the > answer came back, "A plugged diesel injector would cause a cylinder to > miss...".....would YOU consider that to be a sensible answer? Could simply be a typo. Makes me think back to my first GM Diesel training class 25-26 years ago; if you said the word "injector" more than once in class, the instructor would whack you upside the head with a hammer. > While a plugged fuel injector would certainly cause a gasoline engine to > also miss, the diesel-oriented answer is non-sensical - suggesting that the > person commenting was not in tune with the situation......much the same as > a two-stroke-oriented comment while discussing a four-stroke problem. Well, um... We're not supposed to bring such things up. Wins you the name of know it all and a.shole. ;-) > .....Here's your sign!........ > > And, yes, I DO believe a lean-running two-stroke will destroy itself much > quicker than a lean-running four-stroke..... Even a Detroit? > Four-strokes are not at all dependent on fuel/air mixture for lower-end and > cylinder wall lubrication as the two-strokes are...... Not all two strokes carry lubrication in the air/fuel mixture, then again when discussing two strokes, one needs to recognize that there are two distinctly different modes of running lean, lean on fuel and lean on lubrication. aarcuda69062 <nonelson@sbcglobal.net> wrote in article <nonelson-E7E0F1.22212307062006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>... > > > Are you saying that lean running will not hurt a 4 stroke? > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > class, the instructor would whack you upside the head with a > hammer. By the tone of your post, I'd say you used the word just once too often! > > While a plugged fuel injector would certainly cause a gasoline engine to > > also miss, the diesel-oriented answer is non-sensical - suggesting that the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > that there are two distinctly different modes of running lean, > lean on fuel and lean on lubrication. Looks like you just took over the title "Know-it-all/a.shole!!" I guess you put me in my place!!! Happy? It is quite obvious that you're itching for some sort of confrontation.....But, you are knocking on the wrong door this time, Bunky! > Looks like you just took over the title "Know-it-all/a.shole!!" > > I guess you put me in my place!!! > > Happy? I think you have a lock on the title of "Know-it-all/a.shole!!" You're also the only "PERFECT" a.shole here > Looks like you just took over the title "Know-it-all/a.shole!!" I wasn't aware that I had lost it in the first place. > I guess you put me in my place!!! We have places? > Happy? Yes, but it has nothing to do with you. > It is quite obvious that you're itching for some sort of > confrontation.....But, you are knocking on the wrong door this time, Bunky! You're free to take my posts however you see fit. >> Looks like you just took over the title "Know-it-all/a.shole!!" > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >You're free to take my posts however you see fit. I put your *technical* information into my notebook. 36 years experience is good enough for me. You dah man. Lg >aarcuda69062 <nonelson@sbcglobal.net> wrote in article ><nonelson-E7E0F1.22212307062006@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>... [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] >It is quite obvious that you're itching for some sort of >confrontation.....But, you are knocking on the wrong door this time, Bunky! Odd thing is, *, that aarcuda DOES know it all. And he's not an a.shole about it. Consider yourself LUCKY you have him in the n/g as a resource. Lg > If I remove the hose that feeds the carburetor and remove the float > bowl drain screw and blow into the hose as hard as I can it is apparent > that the path is blocked (on all four carbs). I perform this same > experiment on the good engine and I can blow air right pass the needle > valve and out the drain. Try treating it like a clueless hooker... "don't blow, SUCK". That's assuming you can poke something up the drain hole to lift the float off the seat. > Hopefully someone has a thought on this. > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > to take the carburetors off, of course I will. But all four are an > assembly and not a trivial thing to do. If it were below freezing where you are I would say you have ice in the lines. A slug of water pumped into the lines and left to sit and freeze would fit your description perfectly. Given that you have good fuel supply to the lines and presumably a good filter keeping anything solid out, I can't think of any thing else that would be able to get into the lines as a liquid and then solidify. -jim >Hopefully someone has a thought on this. > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >Any thoughts, >--Mike If you are blowing in before the filter, you may have a slug of water in the filter. Some filters are good enough that they will block water after being soaked in fuel and will not allow water to pass thereby blocking fuel from flowing. You may just need a new filter. If this turns out to be the case, make sure you dump some alchohol like gas dry or a similar product into the system to help disperse the water. Lugnut |
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