He speaks the truth!  Bilsteins are also good if they are available for
your vehicle, but they are not adjustable and still cost more than you
probably want to spend :/

nate

==================================
I have always trusted, uised and have been satisfied with  Koni,
Blistein and KYB's....  Never had a single problem with any of those
brands ...   However different models of each are available so you
better check your application needs...

Bob Griffiths
68 SS 396 Chevelle
64 & 72 Corvette Ragtops
76 79 95 & 2000 Coirvette Coupes
01 Dodge Truck...

Bruce Chang <bechang@swspambegonebell.net> wrote in article
<lYTTd.57492$iC4.11924@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>...

Because I work extensively with shocks, I have cut apart a wide range of
sealed shocks - including Gabriel and Monroe replacement shocks.

If I were to lay the rods, pistons, base valves, and associated internals
side-by-side - covering up the Gabriel "Red Ryder red" and Monroe "Gas
Matic blue" colors -  I doubt if anybody here could tell me which one was
which.

They are virtually identical in internal design....to the point of being
interchangeable from one manufacturer's inner and outer tubes to the
other's.

As they go up in price, each manufacturer has simply devised methods to
bleed off pressures as they approach given points, reducing some of the
harshness of the stiffer, less staged, cheap shock....but, maintaining the
same basic design.

Konis and Bilsteins, on the other hand, are quite unique in design -  in
both their monotube and twin-tube designs.

Don't believe me???

Go out and buy a Gabriel and a Monroe of equal quality - cheap to expensive
-  and cut them apart, and don't be surprised that there are far more
similarities than differences.

And, here's one more thing - straight from a Monroe shock engineer's
mouth.......

The cheapest shock will give much more aggressive suspension control due to
fewer stages of control while the more expensive shocks are aimed towards
maintaining a "boulevard ride" throughout the range of shock piston
velocities.

The cheapest shocks often incorporate three stages of pressure control
while the expensive shocks often go for ten-or-more.

Tests on my own shock dynamometer have proven this statement to be true
with the cheaper shock developing greater compression/rebound pressures at
a given piston/shaft velocity than the more expensive shocks.

Yes, I'm saying that the more expensive shock usually offers
less-aggressive control, and I'll prove it on my shock dyno to anybody who
wants to bring me the cheapest and the most expensive, same-application
shocks from a given manufacturer.

Those of my race team customers who are required by the rules to run stock
OEM-style shocks are - at my recommendation - all racing, and winning, on
$10 shocks.

Shock advertising has always been - and continues to be - sheer
hyperbole....

"Self adjusting" is one of my favorites.

When shock piston/shaft velocities increase, the shock pressures increase.

If no provision is provided to avoid excessive pressure buildup, you could
easily reach a point of hydraulic lockup where it will create a rigid
resistance to suspension movement because valving cannot pass fluid through
fast enough for the piston's velocity, so stages of pressure relief are
built into the valving.....but, the advertisers love to call this logical
engineering factor, "....self-adjusting to conditions."

All shocks are "self-adjusting." There's no way around that fact.

We sold Gabriel for decades, now sell Monroe because our association
requires it.  Both are good products.  But if you take a comparable unit
for the same application from both brands and cut them apart, you will
find the Gabriel looks to be better designed.
  I have always had excellent results with Gabriel.
The only time I ever had a bad experience with either was the last set
of Monroe's I bought - in 1978.
   The last shocks I bought were Bilsteins, for my truck.  Having said
that, I'm about to put a set of Monroe's on my wifes VW.
  Short answer - for your needs there are no bad choices between these
two. I'd avoid KYBs for that application.

Had a similar experience with KYBs.  the PO of my car had put KYBs on
the rear just before I bought it, maybe 6 months later they were
rattling and clunking.  Replaced with Bilstein and problem goes away.
The specialty (Porsche) shop that I took the car to (I thought I
actually had a more serious suspension problem, no way could it be the
new struts I thought) tore me a new one for using KYBs until I explained
that I didn't buy them - apparently the owner had had similar problems
in the past.

I believe the PO told me there were Gabriels on the front, obviously I
can't tell without disassembly.  They have been fine although a little
underdamped for the application.  I've been using Gabriels on all my
Studebakers just because they are the only mfgr. that still makes a
direct fit shock (the Konis were discontinued years ago) and they work
fine in that app.

good luck

nate

Gabriels are nice shocks, and the low price makes it economical to change
them every thousand miles when they wear out.

I've never had a problem with Monroe OR with Gabriel. Gabriel (as of the
last time I bought shocks) has a better selection of shocks for vintage
cars than Monroe, who have collapsed their lineup significantly. KYB is
also excellent with good support for vintage cars, but pricier
(generally worth it, though).