Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / General Car Topics / May 2005
Motor Oil
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DartmanX - 29 Mar 2005 21:30 GMT I have just purchased a 2004 Ford Explorer XLT, and have promised to take much better care of it than the Chrysler Voyager minivan it replaced.
Of course, one of my resolutions is keep on top of oil changes, every 5000 miles per manufacturer schedule. I need to decide what type of oil to use. Due to cost, synthetic is probably out of the question.
Rather than start a flamewar, does anyone have a link to a good consumer-reports or similar type of site so I can compare types and decide for myself?
All I currently know is what a trusted friend told me: don't use Penzoil (though I have no idea why not).
Jason
countryroadrage - 29 Mar 2005 21:54 GMT > I have just purchased a 2004 Ford Explorer XLT, and have promised to > take much better care of it than the Chrysler Voyager minivan it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 5000 miles per manufacturer schedule. I need to decide what type of oil > to use. Due to cost, synthetic is probably out of the question. I have found that using a synthetic "Mobil 1" is really cost effective because how much farther and longer I can drive before needing to change.
> Rather than start a flamewar, does anyone have a link to a good > consumer-reports or similar type of site so I can compare types and > decide for myself? As long as you buy an SAE marked oil that the required data that is found in your user manual you can't miss.
> All I currently know is what a trusted friend told me: don't use > Penzoil (though I have no idea why not). Again if Penzoil is marked SAE and they have a product that meets your user manual requirments for oil I see no reason to fear one brand over an other.
> Jason Peter D. Hipson - 30 Mar 2005 00:16 GMT >> I have just purchased a 2004 Ford Explorer XLT, and have promised to >> take much better care of it than the Chrysler Voyager minivan it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >I have found that using a synthetic "Mobil 1" is really cost effective >because how much farther and longer I can drive before needing to change. If you wish to keep the warranty in force, you CANNOT stretch the oil change interval when using synthetic oil. Therefor with an engine under warranty synthetic is somewhat more expensive. The most important thing is to make regular oil, and filter, changes! I change my diesel engine's oil ever 3K, the gas truck at about 4K and the other cars at 3 to 5K.
>> Rather than start a flamewar, does anyone have a link to a good >> consumer-reports or similar type of site so I can compare types and >> decide for myself? > >As long as you buy an SAE marked oil that the required data that is found >in your user manual you can't miss. ANd you keep your warranty in force! <g>
>> All I currently know is what a trusted friend told me: don't use >> Penzoil (though I have no idea why not). > >Again if Penzoil is marked SAE and they have a product that meets your user >manual requirments for oil I see no reason to fear one brand over an other. Gosh, not that debate again! <bg> Some love the stuff, some hate it. Penzoil and Quaker State are usually 'lumped together' in the love/hate war. I've used Quaker State more often in gas engines than any other oil. Never had a problem. For diesel, I use Lucas in my trucks, and try to sell others on it too. It is expensive, however. I've torn down diesel engines that have been changed at 3K regularlly and have seen no measureable wear in teh cyulinders. The factory crosshatching is still perfect and even.
>> Jason Virtually every 'bad' engine that I've met has died because the owner didn't change oil as necessary. Either lazy, cheap, or just don't know better. At 80K they smoke so much that they are a hazard, then the people badmouth the maker saying they make crud for engines.
countryroadrage - 30 Mar 2005 00:37 GMT > >> I have just purchased a 2004 Ford Explorer XLT, and have promised to > >> take much better care of it than the Chrysler Voyager minivan it [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > my diesel engine's oil ever 3K, the gas truck at about 4K and the > other cars at 3 to 5K. Under normal driving conditions meaning not real dusty conditions it's a waste of money and oil to change a late model engines oil under 7,500 Min. and most user manuals state higher miles then back in the 40s and 50s where the 1000/3000 change got ingrained in people minds. The oil companies just loved people changing their oil so often. $$$$ Using a quality synthetic oil is really cost effective just do the math.
DartmanX - 30 Mar 2005 14:31 GMT Unfortunately, I have to follow Ford's Maintenance Schedule, which says oil change and tire rotation every 5,000 miles, or, as was pointed out earlier, I'll void the warranty (which I paid a fair amount for).
If Ford changes their Schedule to say 7,500 miles, then synthetic might be the way to go.
Roadraging - 30 Mar 2005 17:51 GMT > Unfortunately, I have to follow Ford's Maintenance Schedule, which says > oil change and tire rotation every 5,000 miles, or, as was pointed out > earlier, I'll void the warranty (which I paid a fair amount for).
> tire rotation every 5,000 miles Yeah thats a good idea I will buy into > that. Warranty's just another way dealers stick it to the buyers for more money. I have only seen one really stupid guy who drove his auto when it was overheating use his warranty and then he only got about half what he paid for it. But if it lets you sleep better knowing you have this "warranty" happy sleeping. Me I have better things to do with my hard earned money.
> If Ford changes their Schedule to say 7,500 miles, then synthetic might > be the way to go. If Ford GM and Chy... Crapler don't start making better engines and the rest of the auto and truck they are going to need to change more then a Maint. schedule to stay in business. Hey even Kia is making better quality autos and truck now then they do.
Peter D. Hipson - 30 Mar 2005 15:09 GMT >Under normal driving conditions meaning not real dusty conditions it's a waste >of money and oil to change a late model engines oil under 7,500 Min. and most >user manuals state higher miles then back in the 40s and 50s where the 1000/3000 >change got ingrained in people minds. The oil companies just loved people >changing their oil so often. $$$$ Using a quality synthetic oil is really cost >effective just do the math. Your engine your choice(s). My engine my choice. May the best choice win! If I spend 35K for a truck (my cheapest one, too.) I want the thing to last... Saving a few dollars pushing oil changes to the max (and beyond) seems to me to be poor economy.
Mike Romain - 30 Mar 2005 16:12 GMT > >Under normal driving conditions meaning not real dusty conditions it's a waste > >of money and oil to change a late model engines oil under 7,500 Min. and most [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > thing to last... Saving a few dollars pushing oil changes to the max > (and beyond) seems to me to be poor economy. You have that right!
My Cherokee now has 310,000 Km on it and still only uses the same 1 liter per oil change as it always has. My CJ7 uses none but only has about 50,00 miles on the 1978 engine block.
Regular changes with an approved oil works for us! The cheapest 10/30 oil on the rack usually too! Never anything special.
Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Roadraging - 30 Mar 2005 17:53 GMT > >Under normal driving conditions meaning not real dusty conditions it's a waste > >of money and oil to change a late model engines oil under 7,500 Min. and most [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > thing to last... Saving a few dollars pushing oil changes to the max > (and beyond) seems to me to be poor economy. Like you posted it's all about choice's some make poor choice's
Rudy Hiebert - 05 Apr 2005 06:30 GMT "...Under normal driving conditions meaning not real dusty conditions it's a waste of money and oil to change a late model engines oil under 7,500 miles and most user manuals state higher miles then back in the 40s and 50s where the 1000/3000 change got in-grained in people minds. The oil companies just loved people changing their oil so often. $$$$ Using a quality synthetic oil is really cost effective just do the math..."
The oil companies that pushed the 5,000 mile oil change now are promoting their their new fangled ideas of a longer oil change that they popoed. I sent in a sample of synthetic and it came back after 13,000 kilometers still OK. If I had taken it to 15,000 kms. I would have broke even but it started in the coldest of winter and saved me a couple bucks at the gas pump. At the price we're paying now, I'm happy and that's what counts.
Bob G. - 05 Apr 2005 21:58 GMT >"...Under normal driving conditions meaning not real dusty conditions >it's a waste of money and oil to change a late model engines oil under [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >couple bucks at the gas pump. At the price we're paying now, I'm happy >and that's what counts. ================= Not a darn thing wrong with your statements..
BUT I am still "stuck in the 50's"...and change my oil between 3 and 4000 miles...on my daily used vehicles... My toys...(5 Corvettes and a Chevelle) get oil changes 4 times a year...even if they only have 500 miles on them since their last change...
Bob Griffiths
walkingtallwithstick - 07 Apr 2005 17:10 GMT > >"...Under normal driving conditions meaning not real dusty conditions > >it's a waste of money and oil to change a late model engines oil under [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Bob Griffiths Hey it's you'r money you'r auto's I could care less.
Bob G. - 08 Apr 2005 13:35 GMT >> Not a darn thing wrong with your statements.. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Hey it's you'r money you'r auto's I could care less. ============== That is quite allright.... it is my money, and they are my cars
I do not blame you at all for caring less....you have no reason to...
Bob Griffiths
Bearracing - 23 May 2005 16:34 GMT > >> Not a darn thing wrong with your statements.. > >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Bob Griffiths Its interesting to note that the majority of vehicle manufacturers currently state (in their owner’s manual) a oil change frequency of 5,000 to 12,500 mile intervals. This is rather curious considering the oil manufacturers only need to comply to a 4,000 mile interval to meet the current API SL rating.
It should also be understood that the actual tests performed by the API (American Petrouleum Institute) are numerous, but the 3 tests of importance are the TFOUT (Thick Film Oxidation Uptake Test), the Sequential IIIF test, and the test oil’s TBN (Total Base Number) rating.
TFOUT measures an oil’s time to failure based on its oxygen absorbtion rate, the Sequential IIIF tests the oil viscosty increase after 4,000 miles of continous subjection to heat, and the TBN rates that oil’s level of reserve alkalinity.
Extending your oil change interval from 3,000 miles to 5,000 may seem reasonable, but the truth is anyone that does this will only increase the cost of vehicle ownership because the drop in your fuel economy will far exceed the savings of changing oil less frequently. Extending your oil change interval from 3,000 to 5,000 miles can result in as much as a 20% drop in fuel mileage and considering the cost of gasoline today this is nothing to ignore.
The vehicle manufacturers have increased their oil change mileage intervals for no reason other than for the purpose of marketing their cars and trucks. You need to look into what each manual states, as the mileage interval listed is almost always stated for those vehicles driven under their description of "Normal" driving. The general description of "Normal" driving is those vehicles driven with a single person, on a level surface at sea level, a steady state 55 mph, and for trip lengths of no less than 50 miles at a time. If you drive your vehicle outside any one of those previously stated conditions, then you need to refer to the service intervals listed under "Severe" driving conditions, which for Ford is 3,000 miles between oil changes (the same is true for Chrysler, GM, Toyota, Honda, and just about every one else).
Someone mentioned they ran their oil for 13,000 miles and had it tested and it tested as good as new(?). I guarantee you that oil had failed and was all but useless, as the lab he sent it into only tested for contamination. The cost of performing a TFOUT, Sequential IIIF test, and then measure an oil’s TBN would cost roughly $6,000 to $7,000 to complete. (as an example, the Sequential IIIF test uses up a GM 3.8L V-6 for each test)
Bottom line, change your oil every 3,000 to 4,000 miles or every 6 months, which ever comes first and only go beyond that mileage interval if you’re using a high quality synthetic such as Mobil1 (even then I would suggest you change your oil every 5,000 miles).
Bearracing
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