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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / General Car Topics / May 2005

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Motor Oil

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DartmanX - 29 Mar 2005 21:30 GMT
I have just purchased a 2004 Ford Explorer XLT, and have promised to
take much better care of it than the Chrysler Voyager minivan it
replaced.

Of course, one of my resolutions is keep on top of oil changes, every
5000 miles per manufacturer schedule. I need to decide what type of oil
to use. Due to cost, synthetic is probably out of the question.

Rather than start a flamewar, does anyone have a link to a good
consumer-reports or similar type of site so I can compare types and
decide for myself?

All I currently know is what a trusted friend told me: don't use
Penzoil (though I have no idea why not).

Jason
countryroadrage - 29 Mar 2005 21:54 GMT
> I have just purchased a 2004 Ford Explorer XLT, and have promised to
> take much better care of it than the Chrysler Voyager minivan it
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> 5000 miles per manufacturer schedule. I need to decide what type of oil
> to use. Due to cost, synthetic is probably out of the question.

I have found that using a synthetic "Mobil 1" is really cost effective
because how much farther and longer I can drive before needing to change.

> Rather than start a flamewar, does anyone have a link to a good
> consumer-reports or similar type of site so I can compare types and
> decide for myself?

As long as you buy an SAE marked oil that the required data that is found
in your user manual you can't miss.

> All I currently know is what a trusted friend told me: don't use
> Penzoil (though I have no idea why not).

Again if Penzoil is marked SAE and they have a product that meets your user
manual requirments for oil I see no reason to fear one brand over an other.

> Jason
Peter D. Hipson - 30 Mar 2005 00:16 GMT
>> I have just purchased a 2004 Ford Explorer XLT, and have promised to
>> take much better care of it than the Chrysler Voyager minivan it
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>I have found that using a synthetic "Mobil 1" is really cost effective
>because how much farther and longer I can drive before needing to change.

If you wish to keep the warranty in force, you CANNOT stretch the oil
change interval when using synthetic oil. Therefor with an engine
under warranty synthetic is somewhat more expensive. The most
important thing is to make regular oil, and filter, changes! I change
my diesel engine's oil ever 3K, the gas truck at about 4K and the
other cars at 3 to 5K.

>> Rather than start a flamewar, does anyone have a link to a good
>> consumer-reports or similar type of site so I can compare types and
>> decide for myself?
>
>As long as you buy an SAE marked oil that the required data that is found
>in your user manual you can't miss.

ANd you keep your warranty in force! <g>

>> All I currently know is what a trusted friend told me: don't use
>> Penzoil (though I have no idea why not).
>
>Again if Penzoil is marked SAE and they have a product that meets your user
>manual requirments for oil I see no reason to fear one brand over an other.

Gosh, not that debate again! <bg> Some love the stuff, some hate it.
Penzoil and Quaker State are usually 'lumped together' in the
love/hate war. I've used Quaker State more often in gas engines than
any other oil. Never had a problem. For diesel, I use Lucas in my
trucks, and try to sell others on it too. It is expensive, however.
I've torn down diesel engines that have been changed at 3K regularlly
and have seen no measureable wear in teh cyulinders. The factory
crosshatching is still perfect and even.

>> Jason

Virtually every 'bad' engine that I've met has died because the owner
didn't change oil as necessary. Either lazy, cheap, or just don't know
better. At 80K they smoke so much that they are a hazard, then the
people badmouth the maker saying they make crud for engines.
countryroadrage - 30 Mar 2005 00:37 GMT
> >> I have just purchased a 2004 Ford Explorer XLT, and have promised to
> >> take much better care of it than the Chrysler Voyager minivan it
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> my diesel engine's oil ever 3K, the gas truck at about 4K and the
> other cars at 3 to 5K.

Under normal driving conditions meaning not real dusty conditions it's a waste
of money and oil to change a late model engines oil under 7,500 Min. and most
user manuals state higher miles then back in the 40s and 50s where the 1000/3000
change got ingrained in people minds. The oil companies just loved people
changing their oil so often. $$$$ Using a quality synthetic oil  is really cost
effective just do the math.
DartmanX - 30 Mar 2005 14:31 GMT
Unfortunately, I have to follow Ford's Maintenance Schedule, which says
oil change and tire rotation every 5,000 miles, or, as was pointed out
earlier, I'll void the warranty (which I paid a fair amount for).

If Ford changes their Schedule to say 7,500 miles, then synthetic might
be the way to go.
Roadraging - 30 Mar 2005 17:51 GMT
> Unfortunately, I have to follow Ford's Maintenance Schedule, which says
> oil change and tire rotation every 5,000 miles, or, as was pointed out
> earlier, I'll void the warranty (which I paid a fair amount for).

> tire rotation every 5,000 miles Yeah thats a good idea I will buy into
> that.

Warranty's just another way dealers stick it to the buyers for more money.
I have only seen one really stupid guy who drove his auto when it was
overheating use his warranty and then he only got about half what he paid
for it. But if it lets you sleep better knowing you have this "warranty"
happy sleeping. Me I have better things to do with my hard earned money.

> If Ford changes their Schedule to say 7,500 miles, then synthetic might
> be the way to go.

If Ford GM and Chy... Crapler don't start making better engines and the
rest of the auto and truck they are going to need to change more then a
Maint. schedule to stay in business. Hey even Kia is making better quality
autos and truck now then they do.
Peter D. Hipson - 30 Mar 2005 15:09 GMT
>Under normal driving conditions meaning not real dusty conditions it's a waste
>of money and oil to change a late model engines oil under 7,500 Min. and most
>user manuals state higher miles then back in the 40s and 50s where the 1000/3000
>change got ingrained in people minds. The oil companies just loved people
>changing their oil so often. $$$$ Using a quality synthetic oil  is really cost
>effective just do the math.

Your engine your choice(s). My engine my choice. May the best choice
win! If I spend 35K for a truck (my cheapest one, too.) I want the
thing to last... Saving a few dollars pushing oil changes to the max
(and beyond) seems to me to be poor economy.
Mike Romain - 30 Mar 2005 16:12 GMT
> >Under normal driving conditions meaning not real dusty conditions it's a waste
> >of money and oil to change a late model engines oil under 7,500 Min. and most
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> thing to last... Saving a few dollars pushing oil changes to the max
> (and beyond) seems to me to be poor economy.

You have that right!

My Cherokee now has 310,000 Km on it and still only uses the same 1
liter per oil change as it always has.  My CJ7 uses none but only has
about 50,00 miles on the 1978 engine block.

Regular changes with an approved oil works for us!  The cheapest 10/30
oil on the rack usually too!  Never anything special.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Roadraging - 30 Mar 2005 17:53 GMT
> >Under normal driving conditions meaning not real dusty conditions it's a waste
> >of money and oil to change a late model engines oil under 7,500 Min. and most
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> thing to last... Saving a few dollars pushing oil changes to the max
> (and beyond) seems to me to be poor economy.

Like you posted it's all about choice's some make poor choice's
Rudy Hiebert - 05 Apr 2005 06:30 GMT
"...Under normal driving conditions meaning not real dusty conditions
it's a waste of money and oil to change a late model engines oil under
7,500 miles and most user manuals state higher miles then back in the
40s and 50s where the 1000/3000 change got in-grained in people minds.
The oil companies just loved people changing their oil so often. $$$$
Using a quality synthetic oil  is really cost effective just do the
math..."

The oil companies that pushed the 5,000 mile oil change now are
promoting their their new fangled ideas of a longer oil change that
they popoed. I sent in a sample of synthetic and it came back after
13,000 kilometers still OK. If I had taken it to 15,000 kms. I would
have broke even but it started in the coldest of winter and saved me a
couple bucks at the gas pump. At the price we're paying now, I'm happy
and that's what counts.
Bob G. - 05 Apr 2005 21:58 GMT
>"...Under normal driving conditions meaning not real dusty conditions
>it's a waste of money and oil to change a late model engines oil under
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>couple bucks at the gas pump. At the price we're paying now, I'm happy
>and that's what counts.
=================
Not a darn thing wrong with your statements..

BUT  I am still "stuck in the 50's"...and change my oil between 3 and
4000 miles...on my daily used vehicles... My toys...(5 Corvettes and a
Chevelle) get oil changes 4 times a year...even if they only have 500
miles on them since their last change...

Bob Griffiths

walkingtallwithstick - 07 Apr 2005 17:10 GMT
> >"...Under normal driving conditions meaning not real dusty conditions
> >it's a waste of money and oil to change a late model engines oil under
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Bob Griffiths

Hey it's you'r money you'r auto's I could care less.
Bob G. - 08 Apr 2005 13:35 GMT
>> Not a darn thing wrong with your statements..
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Hey it's you'r money you'r auto's I could care less.

==============
That is quite allright.... it is my money, and they are my cars

I do not blame you at all for caring less....you have no reason to...

Bob Griffiths
Bearracing - 23 May 2005 16:34 GMT
> &nbsp;>> Not a darn thing wrong with your statements..
> &nbsp;>>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Bob Griffiths

Its interesting to note that the majority of vehicle manufacturers
currently state (in their owner’s manual) a oil change frequency of
5,000 to 12,500 mile intervals. This is rather curious considering the
oil manufacturers only need to comply to a 4,000 mile interval to meet
the current API SL rating.

It should also be understood that the actual tests performed by the
API (American Petrouleum Institute) are numerous, but the 3 tests of
importance are the TFOUT (Thick Film Oxidation Uptake Test), the
Sequential IIIF test, and the test oil’s TBN (Total Base Number)
rating.

TFOUT measures an oil’s time to failure based on its oxygen absorbtion
rate, the Sequential IIIF tests the oil viscosty increase after 4,000
miles of continous subjection to heat, and the TBN rates that oil’s
level of reserve alkalinity.

Extending your oil change interval from 3,000 miles to 5,000 may seem
reasonable, but the truth is anyone that does this will only increase
the cost of vehicle ownership because the drop in your fuel economy
will far exceed the savings of changing oil less frequently. Extending
your oil change interval from 3,000 to 5,000 miles can result in as
much as a 20% drop in fuel mileage and considering the cost of
gasoline today this is nothing to ignore.

The vehicle manufacturers have increased their oil change mileage
intervals for no reason other than for the purpose of marketing their
cars and trucks. You need to look into what each manual states, as the
mileage interval listed is almost always stated for those vehicles
driven under their description of "Normal" driving. The general
description of "Normal" driving is those vehicles driven with a
single person, on a level surface at sea level, a steady state 55 mph,
and for trip lengths of no less than 50 miles at a time. If you drive
your vehicle outside any one of those previously stated conditions,
then you need to refer to the service intervals listed under
"Severe" driving conditions, which for Ford is 3,000 miles between
oil changes (the same is true for Chrysler, GM, Toyota, Honda, and
just about every one else).

Someone mentioned they ran their oil for 13,000 miles and had it
tested and it tested as good as new(?). I guarantee you that oil had
failed and was all but useless, as the lab he sent it into only tested
for contamination. The cost of performing a TFOUT, Sequential IIIF
test, and then measure an oil’s TBN would cost roughly $6,000 to
$7,000 to complete. (as an example, the Sequential IIIF test uses up a
GM 3.8L V-6 for each test)

Bottom line, change your oil every 3,000 to 4,000 miles or every 6
months, which ever comes first and only go beyond that mileage
interval if you’re using a high quality synthetic such as Mobil1 (even
then I would suggest you change your oil every 5,000 miles).

Bearracing
 
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