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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / General Car Topics / May 2005Diesel vs. gasoline???
Know nothing of cars (electrical person) - used public transportation all my life. Why is that 95% of passenger cars in the US are gasoline, yet diesel used in much of Europe? I read somewhere diesel is more efficient, plus unlike gas engine even UNMODIFIED diesel unit can run on "biofuels" (filtered cooking, etc. natural oils), so why diesel not dominating the market? I thought it's even cheaper? However, my primary question is: Is it true Diesel engine causes a much worse pollution, especiall;y carcerogenic (CANCER-causing) exhaust?? If so that would answer questions above. But again I thought new diesels burn as clean as gasoline? I wouldn't bother with all this, if it wasn't for the growing interest in biofuels and several people said "cooking oil", etc. works ONLY in diesel engines, it will NOT run in gasoline - dont even try. Thanks for your time, I might answer your electrical questions in the future, who knows... so it's not a waste of your time. > Know nothing of cars (electrical person) - used public transportation all my > life. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Thanks for your time, I might answer your electrical questions in the future, > who knows... so it's not a waste of your time. They are noisy, they smell, and only the really expensive vehicles with them have comparable performance to gasoline. The latest generations are much improved in all these areas, but still have a way to go. >They are noisy, they smell, and only the really expensive vehicles with them >have comparable performance to gasoline. The latest generations are much >improved in all these areas, but still have a way to go. I think Rick has summed up the typical American feeling about diesels. I'm not saying he is right, however. Today's diesels are rather quieter (that's car diesels, not truck!) They use cat converters, just like a gas engine, and the smell is virtually non-existant now. They lack horsepower, but their low end torque makes up for that generally. However, if you are used to driving a 350 hp Hemi V8, you will feel it is underpowered. Eventually diesels will (have) to become more popular, as diesel fuel from alternative sources is easier to produce than gasoline. But the average American will only go down fighting... <bg> (Yes, I'm American, yes, I have diesels (with cats, too) and I have gas vehicles.) >>They are noisy, they smell, and only the really expensive vehicles with them >>have comparable performance to gasoline. The latest generations are much [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > (Yes, I'm American, yes, I have diesels (with cats, too) and I have > gas vehicles.) I should add that I personally feel that more people should buy diesels. My answer was more of a "why _people_ don't like diesels" than "why _I_ don't like diesels. For instance if one insists (or requires) a huge truck or SUV then I feel the diesel version (if available) is the smarter way to go. Also, if gas prices keep going the way they have been I think a vehicle like the VW Jetta diesel (I think it's the Jetta) would be a better choice for a lot of people over the new hybrids. I'm still a little skeptical of how the resale market is going to treat the hybrids. For me personally the noise is the biggest issue. Many sound too much like a gas engine with bad lifters. >Know nothing of cars (electrical person) - used public transportation all my >life. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >etc. natural oils), so why diesel not dominating the market? I thought it's >even cheaper? There is a perception in thte US that diesel vehicles don't perform well. Also there is the issue of slightly more noise. Neither valid, and many in the US also want passenger diesels but the auto makers won't provide them. >However, my primary question is: >Is it true Diesel engine causes a much worse pollution, especiall;y >carcerogenic (CANCER-causing) exhaust?? If so that would answer questions >above. But again I thought new diesels burn as clean as gasoline? Diesels have always polluted less than gas engines. It is just that some of the pollutants are visible in a diesel (the 'black' exhaust) and that is what people are worried about. They don't realize that this is particular (not gas) matter, which settles out of the air quickly. It is mostly carbon particles. Also diesels rarely produce carbon monoxide, either, and a diesel cannot produce carbon monoxide while idling (it is a physical impossibility!) CO2, NOX, and other pollutants are compariable, or less than gas engines. Diesel engines generally run cooler as well (both good and bad, less NOX, but makes a cat converter difficult) Some diesels are so efficient that you can put your hand on the exhaust a few feet (say a meter or so) back from the exhaust manifold while it is idling and won't get burned! Don't do that under load, or with a gas engine. >I wouldn't bother with all this, if it wasn't for the growing interest in >biofuels and several people said "cooking oil", etc. works ONLY in diesel >engines, it will NOT run in gasoline - dont even try. Biodiesel (processed cooking oil) is getting very popular here in teh US. No conversion, but it is *not* straight oil, it is processed (the technology is simple enough that it can be homemade!) I use bio-diesel 20% in my truck. Runs fine. Cost a few cents more, but I feel better about using it. >Thanks for your time, I might answer your electrical questions in the >future, who knows... so it's not a waste of your time. One final strike: right now diesel in the US is more expensive than premium gas! (this has never been true before) It is only now starting to drop. It was about 5 to 10% less than cheap gas before. Ug. I saw similar responses in all parts except pollution. The partcile matter is precisely th epoint, it's not "harmless" - it's the root of the problem. These partciles are CARCIROGENIC (i.e. cancer-causing), but I would agree new diesel generation cuts it down yet not as good as gasoline. E.g my 2004 Nissan Sentra is PZEV = Partially-zero emissions vehicle, it's even fully SULEV and you cant achieve such clean exhaust in diesel, i can stand near exhaust pipe and feel OK, warm air comes out (I dont put this thing into my mouth or nose, but feel the difference form old Oldsmobile that spelled several blocks away like chemical warfare). So thanks for response, people on rec.autos.tech, Nissan, etc Newsgroups provided many more, thanks >One final strike: right now diesel in the US is more expensive than >premium gas! (this has never been true before) It is only now starting >to drop. It was about 5 to 10% less than cheap gas before. Ug. I haven't thoroughly researched this aspect but it does adversely affect me because I enjoy driving my diesel powered vehicles. The conspiracy theorist in me questions whether this price flop-flop with gasoline vs. diesel has something to do with the current US president paying back his oil company cronies for their assistance in getting him re-elected. Could it be that since biodiesel may be a viable automotive power source, there's some sort of underhanded price fixing going on to cause civilians to now prefer gasoline powered vehicles over bio/diesel ones? After all, the majority of US citizens typically focus on short term costs rather than long term, overall, expense and benefits... especially when factoring in environmental issues. Like I stated, I'm not well-versed enough to make a stand or educated statement regarding this issue, but, something just don't seem right here. Just wondering aloud... "hoodoo" wrote: > >One final strike: right now diesel in the US is more > expensive than [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Just wondering aloud... I live in Britain where sales of Diesel cars now make up over 30% of new car sales, compared with over 50% on Western continental Europe. The modern diesels we have here are nearly comparable in speed and cost of petrol (gasoline) cars while being more powerful and economical. Although diesels still produce carsinogens, so do gasoline cars. My Peugeot 205 diesel made back in 1991 gives over 60 miles per gallon and gets to 60 miles per hour in about 13 seconds. Also it will take 100% proffessionally filtered biodiesel with almost no modification. I love my diesel, it’s fun to drive and can keep up with lots of boys racers. If you want to think about conspiarcies, Isuzzu produce almost no gasoline cars (if any) in this country. The other GM controlled companies, as well as Ford are probably the biggest diesel producers in the EU with only PSA Peugeot Citroen being larger producers. There is no good reason for Diesels to be unpopualr in America, except in the North where you may get gelling problems in winter. |
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