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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / General Car Topics / August 2005

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Spontaneous Windshield Cracking?

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TJ - 10 Jul 2005 21:13 GMT
A friend of mine said the windshield of her 2001 Pathfinder cracked
overnight, just sitting inside her closed garage.  The car has never
been in an accident or anything.  It wasn't excessively hot inside the
garage or anything. It's like a single line crack emanating from the top
of the windshield down about a foot or so.I'm thinking, something must
have happened, windshields don't just crack like that for no reason.

She said, "yes they do, it happened to my celica before, in the same
place."

I told her I've never heard of windshields spontaneously cracking before
like that, that I thought it was really strange.

*Then* she goes on arguing (sort of) with me about it, telling me it has
happened to *4* of the vehicles owned by her and her husband, always in
the same spot.  She thinks it's something that just happens to cars
sometimes.

This is a husband she is in the process of divorcing for some fairly
serious domestic violence reasons, but she still currently lives with
him (he's on probation).  

Now, I'm thinking, ok this guy has anger problems, and it occurs to me
maybe he's prone to taking it out on some windshields.

So my question is, is it common for windshields to crack seemingly
spontaneously like this?  I've never really heard of such a thing.  I
mean, I'm sure it happens from time to time that the reason isn't
readily apparent, but to 4 out of about 6 cars these two have owned?

Ok any thoughts appreciated!

TJ
Professor - 10 Jul 2005 21:55 GMT
Windshields just don't crack for no reason... it was either hit with
something... or had some sort or torsional stress.

Professor
Check out FlashAlert at www.telstar-electronics.com

> A friend of mine said the windshield of her 2001 Pathfinder cracked
> overnight, just sitting inside her closed garage.  The car has never
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> TJ
Garry - 10 Jul 2005 23:02 GMT
i will go with the Professor, they don't crack for no reason.
gzuckier@snail-mail.net - 12 Jul 2005 04:35 GMT
> i will go with the Professor, they don't crack for no reason.

Actually, I've had three crack "for no reason". Well, one of them was
obviously distorted in curvature and had been just brute forced into
place and evnetually gave up. And no, it wasn't an American car!

But the three did not crack for no reason, all in the same parking
spot. Now that is weird.
Sly - 10 Jul 2005 23:34 GMT
actually on checking service bulletins on my 94 pathfinder, it seems
windshields in fact can crack for no reason, it didnt say why or how

> Windshields just don't crack for no reason... it was either hit with
> something... or had some sort or torsional stress.
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> >
> > TJ
gary - 10 Jul 2005 22:34 GMT
The cause might be reasonable, but hidden.  I had an old Pulsar NX that had
a stone hit the windshield, left a little nick in the glass.  Over the next
day I got a crack over a foot long.  At one point I tapped the glass and it
grew an inch.  Could have happened the same way to her, she may not have
noticed the stone hit.  (Windshields by nature are "pre-stressed" by the
tempering processes used.).

In some cases heat/cooling can trigger a crack also.

Gary K

If you know what to look for, a hammer leaves a different type/size mark at
the start of cracks.

>A friend of mine said the windshield of her 2001 Pathfinder cracked
> overnight, just sitting inside her closed garage.  The car has never
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> TJ
Steve T - 11 Jul 2005 01:59 GMT
> In some cases heat/cooling can trigger a crack also.

One cold morning I pulled a car into the heated shop and the rear glass
EXPLODED so yes they can crack from this.

Signature


Steve

http://www.atlantaracing.com

HLS@nospam.nix - 10 Jul 2005 22:40 GMT
I have seen them crack for no obvious reason.
Clearly there is a scientific reason, but it need not be so obvious as a
hammer, stone peck, etc.

My Reatta split from the top seal about 1 inch.  I 'repaired' it to keep it
from running but there
was no mechanical damage which initiated it.  ( A new replacement, when they
are available, is
about $1800)

My SAAB blew out a rear glass sitting in a parking place.  No rock, no
damage, no nothing.

When you stress a piece of glass, and if it is not perfectly bedded, it can
crack.  And it may be
nobody's fault...

(Now, shitteaux husbands, and wives, have been known to promote events which
stress may
have favored in the first place.)

If you cant prove it, it didnt happen.
223rem - 10 Jul 2005 23:27 GMT
Someone reported the spontaneous shattering of a rear windshield
on that silly "Car talk" show on NPR today. It was very hot,
and the guys said that because glass expands, if there is
a flaw in the glass, it will break. Seems weak to me, glass
will expand much less than the metal of the vehicle, so I
dont see where the stress on the glass came from.
HLS@nospam.nix - 10 Jul 2005 23:40 GMT
> Someone reported the spontaneous shattering of a rear windshield
> on that silly "Car talk" show on NPR today. It was very hot,
> and the guys said that because glass expands, if there is
> a flaw in the glass, it will break. Seems weak to me, glass
> will expand much less than the metal of the vehicle, so I
> dont see where the stress on the glass came from.

I can assure you from personal experience that it DOES happen.
I suspect that the fit into the window port and the gasket, with
contraction and expansion due to temperature, may place
undue stresses on the glass.

Now, I had an 84 Fiero that gave me tons of problems with the front
OEM windshield fit and seal.  Finally, after numerous attempts to fix it,
I asked the dealership if the glass itself could be faulty..

Guess what!  It was.   They replaced it under warranty and it never
gave another problem.
Erik - 11 Jul 2005 02:14 GMT
> > Someone reported the spontaneous shattering of a rear windshield
> > on that silly "Car talk" show on NPR today. It was very hot,
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Guess what!  It was.   They replaced it under warranty and it never
> gave another problem.

Windshields on occasion do bust on their own, always have. It's rare
though, and not a big problem by any means.

Big fast temperature changes are hard on glass, like summer in the hot
sun, and splashing it with cold water. Even thats not such a big
problem... but if you have a windshield with a flaw, damage, or one that
wasn't tempered correctly and still has some internal stresses, that
would be a prime time for it to go.

Even after saying all that, by far the biggest killer is mechanical
shock... as in road debris, accidents, vandalism...

Erik

PS, a little off topic, but years ago I picked up the front end of a
late 60 something Caddy with a floor jack, and the windshield busted
just as the front wheels left the ground... wow, you should have heard
the foul language that generated.

E
Ed White - 11 Jul 2005 13:50 GMT
The glass is glued to the metal. So differential expansion of the glass
and metal increasea the stress in the glass. The "rear windshield" is
most likely tempered glass (not laminated safety glass like the front
windshield). One little flaw can lead to a crack. A small crack in
tempered glass can casue the entire sheet to crumble. Where I work we
used to sell cabinets with glass front doors. The doors were made from
tempered glass. Ordinarily you can beat the crap out of them and
nothing happens. But rarely you get one with a flaw. I've seen those
litteraly fall apart with just a little flexing of the door.

Ed
Zebra - 11 Jul 2005 14:35 GMT
Professor is right. 4 out of 6 in the same garage, different brand and
model. I think it is time for CSI to do some investigation.

Zebra

> The glass is glued to the metal. So differential expansion of the glass
> and metal increasea the stress in the glass. The "rear windshield" is
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Ed
Richard Tomkins - 12 Jul 2005 05:12 GMT
I had a windshield crack spontaneously.

The vehicle was a Plymouth Voyageur. The metal supporting the windshield had
developed some rust in one lower corner. The oxide build-up put stress on
the windshield and it cracked one day, and the crack progressed rapidly over
three days to the far side of the windshield.

When I ad it replaced, the rusted area was cut out and the metal liberally
painted with a rust inhibitor.

So far, so good.

> Professor is right. 4 out of 6 in the same garage, different brand and
> model. I think it is time for CSI to do some investigation.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> >
> > Ed
Hugo Schmeisser - 11 Jul 2005 14:43 GMT
> A friend of mine said the windshield of her 2001 Pathfinder cracked
> overnight, just sitting inside her closed garage.  The car has never
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> something must have happened, windshields don't just crack like that
> for no reason.

Don't know where she lives, but rust in the pinchweld can cause
localised pressure that can lead to a crack.

Has the windshield ever been replaced? If so, failure to patch the
nicks in the paint will cause rapid rusting if the vehicle is in a
Northeastern area of North America.
John S. - 11 Jul 2005 14:47 GMT
The glass would have to have been weakened at some point.  A small
stone or something else thrown up by the vehicle in front is the most
likely cause.  A tiny chip can spread into a window spanning crack in
no time.
Hugo Schmeisser - 12 Jul 2005 15:34 GMT
> The glass would have to have been weakened at some point.  A small
> stone or something else thrown up by the vehicle in front is the most
> likely cause.  A tiny chip can spread into a window spanning crack in
> no time.

Chips in the edge of the glass will have the same effect. You can't see
them because they're under the trim.

Thermal flexing and vibration will eventually turn the chip into a
crack.
Jason - 19 Aug 2005 18:50 GMT
After working in a glass shop for several years, I've seen some wierd things
that can shatter glass, or even cause laminated to crack and then run.  The
3 basic types of glass are laminated(used in windshields), tempered(used in
the other windows) and plate.  Tempered is very damage resistant, however
when it does break it just explodes into thousands of tiny pieces.  Tempered
has to be manufactured at the size needed, it can not be cut after the fact,
unlike both plate and laminated.  Plate glass when it breaks leaves larger
jagged pieces(many older homes windows are plate). Laminated is just 2
pieces of 1/8" plate glass with an adhesive sandwiched between them.  During
installation, there are rubber shims placed at the edges of the windshield
for proper alignment and to keep it from shifting.  Between the glass and
the lip of the body a rubber based sealant is used to both weatherproof and
provide sufficient expansion.  Its unusual for factory windshields to leak
or crack from the edges, but they can if there is a thin spot in the sealant
allowing the glass to impact the lip.  However, this would most likely
manifest itself within a few days of manufacture, not several years down the
line.

Glass is fairly stable thermally as long as the changes are gradual, however
rapid changes can crack it(or worse in the case of tempered).  Driving out
of a heated garage into sub zero weather can cause a rapid enough rate of
thermal contraction to crack it.  Even running the defrost at the hottest
setting when its below zero can be bad, it causes the inner layer to expand
while the outer layer stays contracted.  When this happens, typically the
inner sheet will buckle and crack.

The other windows on the car are a different matter.  The rear glass is
usually tempered(as are the side windows), especially if it has an electric
defrost.  Laminated won't work here as the heat produced will melt the
adhesive.  Tempered glass usually breaks from the edges inward. The 2
biggest reasons for tempered glass to fail are overpressure caused by high
powered stereo systems, and objects striking at a high rate of speed, both
of which are fairly common problems.

I've had 8 vehicles since I started driving, ranging from a 68 Mustang to a
93 Ram diesel.  I've logged better than 1.5 million miles total, did 740k on
the ram before it got totaled in sept 96.  Out of that I've changed 2
windshields(the mustang and the ram), a couple of side windows, and one rear
window(an 89 Escort I put in a spin on gravel and hit rear first on an
embankment, the rear window came out in one piece and shattered when it hit
the mud).  The ram has been to almost every state in the lower 48(never hit
Maine, Vermont or New Hampshire), and covered a good chunk of Canada also.

In your friends case, the most likely cause was her husband hitting the roof
of the vehicles near the lip of the windshield.  I bet there are slight
dents in the roof, though it could have happened from the inside.  The
chances of 4 out of 6 cracking in the same spot are astronomical, or she has
gremlins in her garage.  I bet that after he leaves, she won't crack anymore
windshields, except for rocks.

>A friend of mine said the windshield of her 2001 Pathfinder cracked
> overnight, just sitting inside her closed garage.  The car has never
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> TJ
Dan_Thomas_nospam@yahoo.com - 20 Aug 2005 00:40 GMT
           I wonder if their kids are climbing onto the car to reach
something in the ceiling, maybe. Or a really big cat. Or a radiant
heater? Got to be some common cause if four cars, in the same garage,
have suffered a reather uncommon failure.

    Dan

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