Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / General Car Topics / August 2005
Spontaneous Windshield Cracking?
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TJ - 10 Jul 2005 21:13 GMT A friend of mine said the windshield of her 2001 Pathfinder cracked overnight, just sitting inside her closed garage. The car has never been in an accident or anything. It wasn't excessively hot inside the garage or anything. It's like a single line crack emanating from the top of the windshield down about a foot or so.I'm thinking, something must have happened, windshields don't just crack like that for no reason.
She said, "yes they do, it happened to my celica before, in the same place."
I told her I've never heard of windshields spontaneously cracking before like that, that I thought it was really strange.
*Then* she goes on arguing (sort of) with me about it, telling me it has happened to *4* of the vehicles owned by her and her husband, always in the same spot. She thinks it's something that just happens to cars sometimes.
This is a husband she is in the process of divorcing for some fairly serious domestic violence reasons, but she still currently lives with him (he's on probation).
Now, I'm thinking, ok this guy has anger problems, and it occurs to me maybe he's prone to taking it out on some windshields.
So my question is, is it common for windshields to crack seemingly spontaneously like this? I've never really heard of such a thing. I mean, I'm sure it happens from time to time that the reason isn't readily apparent, but to 4 out of about 6 cars these two have owned?
Ok any thoughts appreciated!
TJ
Professor - 10 Jul 2005 21:55 GMT Windshields just don't crack for no reason... it was either hit with something... or had some sort or torsional stress.
Professor Check out FlashAlert at www.telstar-electronics.com
> A friend of mine said the windshield of her 2001 Pathfinder cracked > overnight, just sitting inside her closed garage. The car has never [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > TJ Garry - 10 Jul 2005 23:02 GMT i will go with the Professor, they don't crack for no reason.
gzuckier@snail-mail.net - 12 Jul 2005 04:35 GMT > i will go with the Professor, they don't crack for no reason. Actually, I've had three crack "for no reason". Well, one of them was obviously distorted in curvature and had been just brute forced into place and evnetually gave up. And no, it wasn't an American car!
But the three did not crack for no reason, all in the same parking spot. Now that is weird.
Sly - 10 Jul 2005 23:34 GMT actually on checking service bulletins on my 94 pathfinder, it seems windshields in fact can crack for no reason, it didnt say why or how
> Windshields just don't crack for no reason... it was either hit with > something... or had some sort or torsional stress. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > > > TJ gary - 10 Jul 2005 22:34 GMT The cause might be reasonable, but hidden. I had an old Pulsar NX that had a stone hit the windshield, left a little nick in the glass. Over the next day I got a crack over a foot long. At one point I tapped the glass and it grew an inch. Could have happened the same way to her, she may not have noticed the stone hit. (Windshields by nature are "pre-stressed" by the tempering processes used.).
In some cases heat/cooling can trigger a crack also.
Gary K
If you know what to look for, a hammer leaves a different type/size mark at the start of cracks.
>A friend of mine said the windshield of her 2001 Pathfinder cracked > overnight, just sitting inside her closed garage. The car has never [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > TJ Steve T - 11 Jul 2005 01:59 GMT > In some cases heat/cooling can trigger a crack also. One cold morning I pulled a car into the heated shop and the rear glass EXPLODED so yes they can crack from this.
 Signature Steve
http://www.atlantaracing.com
HLS@nospam.nix - 10 Jul 2005 22:40 GMT I have seen them crack for no obvious reason. Clearly there is a scientific reason, but it need not be so obvious as a hammer, stone peck, etc.
My Reatta split from the top seal about 1 inch. I 'repaired' it to keep it from running but there was no mechanical damage which initiated it. ( A new replacement, when they are available, is about $1800)
My SAAB blew out a rear glass sitting in a parking place. No rock, no damage, no nothing.
When you stress a piece of glass, and if it is not perfectly bedded, it can crack. And it may be nobody's fault...
(Now, shitteaux husbands, and wives, have been known to promote events which stress may have favored in the first place.)
If you cant prove it, it didnt happen.
223rem - 10 Jul 2005 23:27 GMT Someone reported the spontaneous shattering of a rear windshield on that silly "Car talk" show on NPR today. It was very hot, and the guys said that because glass expands, if there is a flaw in the glass, it will break. Seems weak to me, glass will expand much less than the metal of the vehicle, so I dont see where the stress on the glass came from.
HLS@nospam.nix - 10 Jul 2005 23:40 GMT > Someone reported the spontaneous shattering of a rear windshield > on that silly "Car talk" show on NPR today. It was very hot, > and the guys said that because glass expands, if there is > a flaw in the glass, it will break. Seems weak to me, glass > will expand much less than the metal of the vehicle, so I > dont see where the stress on the glass came from. I can assure you from personal experience that it DOES happen. I suspect that the fit into the window port and the gasket, with contraction and expansion due to temperature, may place undue stresses on the glass.
Now, I had an 84 Fiero that gave me tons of problems with the front OEM windshield fit and seal. Finally, after numerous attempts to fix it, I asked the dealership if the glass itself could be faulty..
Guess what! It was. They replaced it under warranty and it never gave another problem.
Erik - 11 Jul 2005 02:14 GMT > > Someone reported the spontaneous shattering of a rear windshield > > on that silly "Car talk" show on NPR today. It was very hot, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Guess what! It was. They replaced it under warranty and it never > gave another problem. Windshields on occasion do bust on their own, always have. It's rare though, and not a big problem by any means.
Big fast temperature changes are hard on glass, like summer in the hot sun, and splashing it with cold water. Even thats not such a big problem... but if you have a windshield with a flaw, damage, or one that wasn't tempered correctly and still has some internal stresses, that would be a prime time for it to go.
Even after saying all that, by far the biggest killer is mechanical shock... as in road debris, accidents, vandalism...
Erik
PS, a little off topic, but years ago I picked up the front end of a late 60 something Caddy with a floor jack, and the windshield busted just as the front wheels left the ground... wow, you should have heard the foul language that generated.
E
Ed White - 11 Jul 2005 13:50 GMT The glass is glued to the metal. So differential expansion of the glass and metal increasea the stress in the glass. The "rear windshield" is most likely tempered glass (not laminated safety glass like the front windshield). One little flaw can lead to a crack. A small crack in tempered glass can casue the entire sheet to crumble. Where I work we used to sell cabinets with glass front doors. The doors were made from tempered glass. Ordinarily you can beat the crap out of them and nothing happens. But rarely you get one with a flaw. I've seen those litteraly fall apart with just a little flexing of the door.
Ed
Zebra - 11 Jul 2005 14:35 GMT Professor is right. 4 out of 6 in the same garage, different brand and model. I think it is time for CSI to do some investigation.
Zebra
> The glass is glued to the metal. So differential expansion of the glass > and metal increasea the stress in the glass. The "rear windshield" is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Ed Richard Tomkins - 12 Jul 2005 05:12 GMT I had a windshield crack spontaneously.
The vehicle was a Plymouth Voyageur. The metal supporting the windshield had developed some rust in one lower corner. The oxide build-up put stress on the windshield and it cracked one day, and the crack progressed rapidly over three days to the far side of the windshield.
When I ad it replaced, the rusted area was cut out and the metal liberally painted with a rust inhibitor.
So far, so good.
> Professor is right. 4 out of 6 in the same garage, different brand and > model. I think it is time for CSI to do some investigation. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > > > Ed Hugo Schmeisser - 11 Jul 2005 14:43 GMT > A friend of mine said the windshield of her 2001 Pathfinder cracked > overnight, just sitting inside her closed garage. The car has never [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > something must have happened, windshields don't just crack like that > for no reason. Don't know where she lives, but rust in the pinchweld can cause localised pressure that can lead to a crack.
Has the windshield ever been replaced? If so, failure to patch the nicks in the paint will cause rapid rusting if the vehicle is in a Northeastern area of North America.
John S. - 11 Jul 2005 14:47 GMT The glass would have to have been weakened at some point. A small stone or something else thrown up by the vehicle in front is the most likely cause. A tiny chip can spread into a window spanning crack in no time.
Hugo Schmeisser - 12 Jul 2005 15:34 GMT > The glass would have to have been weakened at some point. A small > stone or something else thrown up by the vehicle in front is the most > likely cause. A tiny chip can spread into a window spanning crack in > no time. Chips in the edge of the glass will have the same effect. You can't see them because they're under the trim.
Thermal flexing and vibration will eventually turn the chip into a crack.
Jason - 19 Aug 2005 18:50 GMT After working in a glass shop for several years, I've seen some wierd things that can shatter glass, or even cause laminated to crack and then run. The 3 basic types of glass are laminated(used in windshields), tempered(used in the other windows) and plate. Tempered is very damage resistant, however when it does break it just explodes into thousands of tiny pieces. Tempered has to be manufactured at the size needed, it can not be cut after the fact, unlike both plate and laminated. Plate glass when it breaks leaves larger jagged pieces(many older homes windows are plate). Laminated is just 2 pieces of 1/8" plate glass with an adhesive sandwiched between them. During installation, there are rubber shims placed at the edges of the windshield for proper alignment and to keep it from shifting. Between the glass and the lip of the body a rubber based sealant is used to both weatherproof and provide sufficient expansion. Its unusual for factory windshields to leak or crack from the edges, but they can if there is a thin spot in the sealant allowing the glass to impact the lip. However, this would most likely manifest itself within a few days of manufacture, not several years down the line.
Glass is fairly stable thermally as long as the changes are gradual, however rapid changes can crack it(or worse in the case of tempered). Driving out of a heated garage into sub zero weather can cause a rapid enough rate of thermal contraction to crack it. Even running the defrost at the hottest setting when its below zero can be bad, it causes the inner layer to expand while the outer layer stays contracted. When this happens, typically the inner sheet will buckle and crack.
The other windows on the car are a different matter. The rear glass is usually tempered(as are the side windows), especially if it has an electric defrost. Laminated won't work here as the heat produced will melt the adhesive. Tempered glass usually breaks from the edges inward. The 2 biggest reasons for tempered glass to fail are overpressure caused by high powered stereo systems, and objects striking at a high rate of speed, both of which are fairly common problems.
I've had 8 vehicles since I started driving, ranging from a 68 Mustang to a 93 Ram diesel. I've logged better than 1.5 million miles total, did 740k on the ram before it got totaled in sept 96. Out of that I've changed 2 windshields(the mustang and the ram), a couple of side windows, and one rear window(an 89 Escort I put in a spin on gravel and hit rear first on an embankment, the rear window came out in one piece and shattered when it hit the mud). The ram has been to almost every state in the lower 48(never hit Maine, Vermont or New Hampshire), and covered a good chunk of Canada also.
In your friends case, the most likely cause was her husband hitting the roof of the vehicles near the lip of the windshield. I bet there are slight dents in the roof, though it could have happened from the inside. The chances of 4 out of 6 cracking in the same spot are astronomical, or she has gremlins in her garage. I bet that after he leaves, she won't crack anymore windshields, except for rocks.
>A friend of mine said the windshield of her 2001 Pathfinder cracked > overnight, just sitting inside her closed garage. The car has never [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > TJ Dan_Thomas_nospam@yahoo.com - 20 Aug 2005 00:40 GMT I wonder if their kids are climbing onto the car to reach something in the ceiling, maybe. Or a really big cat. Or a radiant heater? Got to be some common cause if four cars, in the same garage, have suffered a reather uncommon failure.
Dan
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