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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / General Car Topics / August 2005

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Retained Accessory Power Help

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lantel@gmail.com - 27 Jul 2005 03:09 GMT
I was wondering if anybody can give me some information on Retained
Accessory Power (RAP).

I'm trying to find a way to wire my XM radio to turn off as how the
current stock radio in my 2000 Chevrolet Cavalier turns off.

The current stock radio that's in there stays on after I turn off the
car and until I open the door, and I would like my XM radio to get its
power that way as well.

I'm not able to find a fuse that stays on after I turn off the car and
turns off after I open the door, and I'm not sure where to look or how
to do this.

Does anybody know where I can tap off of so I can wire my XM radio to
use the Retained Accessory Power feature?

Any helps or hints are appreciated.
Scott Gardner - 27 Jul 2005 03:41 GMT
>I was wondering if anybody can give me some information on Retained
>Accessory Power (RAP).
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>Any helps or hints are appreciated.

If you have power windows, are they on the RAP circuit as well?  If
they are, that would help narrow down your search, since there are
only a few wires that go into the door, and one of them should stay
powered with the car off until the door is opened.

If not, I'd suggest turning off your car, pulling the stock radio out
(leaving the wiring harness connected), and probe all the wires until
you find the ones that have power (there should be at least two).
Then open the door and re-test the wires that had power previously.
One of them should have lost power when you opened the door, and that
would be the one to tap into.
Signature

Scott Gardner

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the most discoveries, is not Eureka! (I found it!) but 'That's funny..." (Isaac Asimov)

Paradox - 27 Jul 2005 05:22 GMT
Actually the power wires going into the radio are always powered, the radio
shuts off internally like how SS said, the databus tells them to shut itself
off.

Using the power window RAP wires might work though.

I'd also look for the external amp if there is one, there should be a power
wire leading to that....

I'm surprised GM didn't see this coming and have an ACC Wire that was
attached to the RAP system.

> >I was wondering if anybody can give me some information on Retained
> >Accessory Power (RAP).
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> One of them should have lost power when you opened the door, and that
> would be the one to tap into.
Asimov)
lantel@gmail.com - 27 Jul 2005 19:08 GMT
Guys, thanks for the replies. I was aware that the radio was using
Class 2 databus to turn off and that there was no accessory wire that
turns off when the door opens.

But I heard that if I tap off the brown wire of the ignition harness
that it behaves like RAP.
Can anyone help me confirm this? I'm not great with locating things in
cars so I don't want to be splicing things useless and doing any
damage. I have the ALLDATA cd's for the 2000 cavalier but it's awful
and does not show the ignition harness and what the wires are.

Here is the result of some research I made which I stored in a .txt
file, but no concrete answers to my problem:

2 people have suggested the brown wire in the ignition harness,
apparently that wire stays on until the door opens but I want to
confirm this with some sort of manual.

I also found this circuit:
http://www.the12volt.com/relays/page5.asp#drto

---------------
Retained Accessory Power (RAP) Operation
Serial Data Control of Retained Accessory Power, RAP
The Radio receives a RAP message from the Body Control Module, BCM over
the serial data circuits. The BCM module monitors the ignition switch
position, battery condition and passenger compartment door status to
determine whether RAP should be initiated. The BCM module then sends a
message to the Radio telling it that it is in RAP power mode.

RAP will end when one of the following conditions are met:

The BCM module receives an input from the drivers door jam switch.
The BCM module receives a message from its internal timer indicating
the end of the RAP period after 10 minutes.
The BCM module detects a decrease in battery capacity below a
prescribed limit.
The transition from OFF to RUN/ON or ACC of the ignition switch.
The BCM module then sends a serial data message to the Radio ending the
RAP function.

Based on this you may want to find an ignition controlled line to tap
into versus the radio voltage.
---------
"In the left side of the dash, there is a fuse block.

There is a RAP Relay, or Retained Accessory Power relay.

It has a 30A circuit breaker - off the back of the fuse block there is
a yellow wire that feeds off this breaker.

This power source turns off after 10 minutes or when you open the
door."
---------
" After much research, I found that the only things truly powered by
the RAP circuit are the sunroof and power windows. I tapped into the
power window wires for 12V power. It's a 25A fuse and I'm sure it can
take another 1A maximum load. The radio has constant power. It turns
off by a serial data signal telling it do so, along with the HUD and
many other systems in the car. "
---------
"2000+ GM/Chevy vehicles with RDS capable radios do *not* have a
switched ignition power lead behind the radio.

Instead, the radio is hooked into the Class 2 Serial data line. When
the door opens, a signal gets sent that tells the radio to power down.
That's how it works.

Now, nearly all Chevy vehicles have an aux. power adapter somewhere in
the passenger cabin. On the Impala's, for example, it's under the dash
in front of the passenger seat. This adapter usually has four wires
going to it. Ground (black), hot (red or orange), switched (yellow),
and data (purple). The yellow wire is key controlled, and will lose
power when the ignition is turned to "off". It won't stay on until the
door opens.

No third parties yet make a device to really talk properly to the
serial line and thus be able to do things like provide a switched
power mechanism that works like the radio / door opening thing does.
So there's really no easy way to do what you want to do. But, it's
entirely possible for it to be done, it's just that there's no
equipment to do it."
---------
"You may want to check the fuse box. I know that a lot recent GM's
have a fuse in the box labeled RAP(Retained Accessory Power). I have
my SkyFi tapped on that fuse and it turns off when I open the door not
when the key comes out of the ignition."
---------
"The newer GM radios have a built in relay for switch (ingn. accy.
power) how it works I really don't know or care. Find the main harness
coming in from the car(firewall) and test the thick brown wire.
Usually theres only one thick one. Run your wire fuse it and it's
done. I have to do that for almost all new GM's when installing
radios."
KaeZoo - 27 Jul 2005 19:41 GMT
> Guys, thanks for the replies. I was aware that the radio was using
> Class 2 databus to turn off and that there was no accessory wire that
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> damage. I have the ALLDATA cd's for the 2000 cavalier but it's awful
> and does not show the ignition harness and what the wires are.

I can tell you that the brown accessory wire does NOT work with the RAP
system.  It's an ignition switch output wire, and therefore works with the
ignition switch.

You might be able to find a RAP relay above the fuse box.  It's present in
some newer GMs with data bus/RAP systems, but I don't know if it's there in
a Cavalier.

I've used the brown accessory wire for quite a few aftermarket head unit
installs in Cavaliers and Sunfires, and it loses power as soon as the key
switches off.
Silver Surfer - 27 Jul 2005 04:41 GMT
Please note that the radio gets the RAP signal over the class 2 serial data
line from the Body Control Module.  Unless you get inside the radio and
somehow tap off its internal power bus I don't think your XM plans are going
to come to fruition.  See description from the service manual below.

Document ID# 853000
2000 Chevrolet/Geo Cavalier
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Retained Accessory Power (RAP) Description

Serial Data Controlled Retained Accessory Power, RAP
Retained accessory power, RAP is a vehicle power mode that permits the
operation of selected customer convenience items after the ignition switch
is turned OFF. These selected items will remain in operation until a
passenger compartment door is opened or until the RAP function timer reaches
its shut-off limit.

The Audio system on this vehicle is the only device that is controlled by
RAP.

>I was wondering if anybody can give me some information on Retained
> Accessory Power (RAP).
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Any helps or hints are appreciated.
chrisn@relais-intl.com - 24 Aug 2005 21:08 GMT
i just soldered a wire to the wiper fuse for my 12v acc wire for the
new stereo and all works fine
this was for a sunfire but same for cavalier
 
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