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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / General Car Topics / December 2005Battery Frozen
My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the door ajar and the dome light drained it. The battery is totally dead, but my charger is showing a charge going into the battery. Will it charge, and will the ice melt? Or is the battery shot? Like I said, just that one cell is frozen, not the others. That cell is also low on liquid. Thanks Mark > My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still > liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > just that one cell is frozen, not the others. That cell is also low > on liquid. How do you know it's low on liquid if it's frozen? But that indicates to me that that particular cell isnt right. Save grief, get a new one at Walmart.  SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price you pay..DEAL with it! >> My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still >> liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Save grief, get a new one at Walmart. What he said. You have at least one marginal to bad cell. >> My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still >> liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >How do you know it's low on liquid if it's frozen? From looking in the hole (DUH) !!!!!! >But that indicates to me that that particular cell isnt right. I agree...... >Save grief, get a new one at Walmart. No thanks. This IS a Walmart battery. The LAST one I will ever buy. This had a 2 year warranty. It expired one month ago. This is the 4th Walmart battery I have owned, they all last 2 years or less. One time I was lucky and got a replacement because it died before the expiration. Most of the time they last one or two months longer than the warranty, and thats about it. The battery in my other car is 6 years old and still works great. I once had another battery that lasted 9 or 10 years. Walmart batteries are junk. Tomorrow I will go to Napa or another place and get a REAL battery. Mark >>> My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still >>> liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > 2 year warranty. It expired one month ago. This is the 4th Walmart > battery I have owned, they all last 2 years or less. Heh... the opposite of my experience. > Tomorrow I will go to Napa or another place and get a REAL battery. No problem with that. SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price you pay..DEAL with it! >>>My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still >>>liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Mark There is a short list of battery manufacturers that make MOST of the automotive batteries in the US. Exide and Johnson controls make most of them. So the popular names you see out there may actually be made by a OEM and private labeled. I have found a Korean company makes some wallmart batteries. http://www.delkor.com/ Here is a link on batteries: http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/batbrand.htm http://www.pacificpowerbatteries.com/aboutbatts/Car%20Battery%20FAQ/carfaq7.html Bob >>> My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still >>> liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Mark You got a Wal-Mart battery with only a TWO-YEAR WARRANTY??? The cheapest, lowest cost ones they sell here have 60-month warranties. What the hell did you buy? > >>> My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still > >>> liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > What the hell did you buy? I wonder about that also, having used nothing but Wal-Mart batteries for the past 20 years, all (maybe 8) of the batteries in about 6 different vehicles. The one in my little truck went 9 years, and replaced it just 3 years ago as a PM thing, since it was still holding a charge. Wal-Mart's batteries (the "high-priced" $60 ones anyway) are made by Johnson Controls (Energizer, Optima), and they certainly know how to make a battery. Maybe proof that one gets what one pays for....... SignatureERIC GIRONDA Oscar_Lives wrote: > > <maradcliff@UNLISTED.com> wrote in message > news:nk9ip19hp4av32pu5jeqp9q2ee6365k7fv@4ax.com... > > On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 19:09:06 GMT, Backyard Mechanic > > <pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote: > > > >>maradcliff@UNLISTED.com wrote: > >> > >>> My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still > >>> liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the > >>> door ajar and the dome light drained it. The battery is totally dead, > >>> but my charger is showing a charge going into the battery. Will it > >>> charge, and will the ice melt? Or is the battery shot? Like I said, > >>> just that one cell is frozen, not the others. That cell is also low > >>> on liquid. > >>> > >> > >>How do you know it's low on liquid if it's frozen? > > > > From looking in the hole (DUH) !!!!!! > > > >>But that indicates to me that that particular cell isnt right. > >> > > I agree...... > > > >>Save grief, get a new one at Walmart. > > > > No thanks. > > This IS a Walmart battery. The LAST one I will ever buy. This had a > > 2 year warranty. It expired one month ago. This is the 4th Walmart > > battery I have owned, they all last 2 years or less. One time I was > > lucky and got a replacement because it died before the expiration. > > Most of the time they last one or two months longer than the warranty, > > and thats about it. The battery in my other car is 6 years old and > > still works great. I once had another battery that lasted 9 or 10 > > years. Walmart batteries are junk. > > > > Tomorrow I will go to Napa or another place and get a REAL battery. > > > > Mark > > You got a Wal-Mart battery with only a TWO-YEAR WARRANTY??? > > The cheapest, lowest cost ones they sell here have 60-month warranties. > > What the hell did you buy? I wonder about that also, having used nothing but Wal-Mart batteries for the past 20 years, all (maybe 8) of the batteries in about 6 different vehicles. The one in my little truck went 9 years, and replaced it just 3 years ago as a PM thing, since it was still holding a charge. Wal-Mart's batteries (the "high-priced" $60 ones anyway) are made by Johnson Controls (Energizer, Optima), and they certainly know how to make a battery > My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still > liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Mark I'd bet that somewhere in the instructions for your battery charger, they warn against attempting to charge a frozen battery. >> My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still >> liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I'd bet that somewhere in the instructions for your battery >charger, they warn against attempting to charge a frozen battery. That could be true, but they probably rotted over 30 years ago in some landfill. I have had the charger for 35 years or so. Why dont they write stuff like that right on the charger. I bet if I look closely itsays to wear safety glasses though. It says that one everything, thats why I always wear them when I take a sh.t. I'm sure it said that on the toilet instructiions !!!! And i bet almost everyone knows at least one person that was blinded by some kind of flying sh.t.... >>> My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still >>> liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > that on the toilet instructiions !!!! And i bet almost everyone knows > at least one person that was blinded by some kind of flying sh.t.... ROFL! and they sued the toilet manufacturer for it too! If you have a problem with flying sh.t you need to change beers or diet. :0 >>>> My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still >>>> liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >ROFL! and they sued the toilet manufacturer for it too! If you have a >problem with flying sh.t you need to change beers or diet. :0 ROFL You know what happens when the sh.t hits the fan, right? Thats the first rule any good mechanic learns. If you're working on your car with the engine running, NEVER take a sh.t in the radiator, because there's a fan right next to it...... (((And be sure you are wearing your safety glasses when you unroll the toilet paper, you never know when the wall holder might break, thrusting the whole roll into your eye))) *** Official Newsgroup Notice *** Be sure to wear your safety glasses when reading this message. One never knows when a pixel might fly out of their monitor and blind them. That is a bad cell, that is why it was low on both water and charge... Only uncharged cells will freeze. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/index.html?id=2120343242 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still > liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Mark Ah Mike, he left the dome light on so all the cells are discharged, one more than the others. That deep discharge always takes some life from the battery, sometimes fatally. In an emergency, give charging a try. If it's not a newer battery anyway, go shopping at your earliest convenience, tomorrow if not possible today. I have always found that the one cell that boils dry first that or that will freeze first to be a bad cell. Every time any of my batteries or the ones I have serviced over the years that goes low on one cell, it is time to start shopping for a new battery. Topping it up will get you a little longer, but not much. If they all go low, that's fine, top them with distilled water, charge and get new life, same goes for those 'maintenance free' ones. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view! Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/index.html?id=2120343242 (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page) > Ah Mike, he left the dome light on so all the cells are discharged, one > more than the others. > That deep discharge always takes some life from the battery, sometimes > fatally. In an emergency, give charging a try. If it's not a newer > battery anyway, go shopping at your earliest convenience, tomorrow if > not possible today. > I have always found that the one cell that boils dry first that or that > will freeze first to be a bad cell. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>battery anyway, go shopping at your earliest convenience, tomorrow if >>not possible today. I gotta agree with Mike. If a cell in a seemingly good battery (warm temps) freezes or gets low on electrolyte, it's time for a new battery, even if low on charge. Any battery that has been left discharged for more than a few days, even in warm temps, usually has irreversible sulphation on the plates that severely limits it's life. Personally, if any battery lets me down once, except for my own screwup, it gets trashed. I've spent too many years milking old batteries in northern Ohio Winter. Puddin, even though money is short, replace the battery and save yourself a lot of grief and give yourself piece of mind. Winter has just begun, consider it an investment in your ability to get to work. FWIW, I've had great luck with Auto Zone Duralast brand batteries. $59-$69 for will get you one of the mid range ones that, from what I've seen, may outlast the car. I don't know who makes them and don't know about long term (>4.5years) reliability. I've had terrible luck with Interstate, Champion, NAPA (what a real disappointment!!) and Crown batteries personally, all within about 2 years of new,YMMV. >> I have always found that the one cell that boils dry first that or that >> will freeze first to be a bad cell. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > Champion, NAPA (what a real disappointment!!) and Crown batteries > personally, all within about 2 years of new,YMMV. Sorry, this was aimed at mradcliff, not puddin. I goofed. I was just reading a post from mr. puddin and got confused. Frozen batteries are, in my humble experience, problems waiting to happen. In a discharged cell, the electrolyte is about as close to water as it's going to get. The also permeates the plates in the battery. When water freezes, it crystallizes and expands.... this is going to damage the plates (which are much like sponges but not flexible). FWIW.... the ice will melt eventually.... much more quickly if the battery is in a warm place while it is being charged. It may even offer a period of useful service. So... now the question becomes one regarding your expectations. If you opt to keep the battery in service, we can be sure that it's going to fail at some time soon. If the inconvenience is no big deal, you can delay the purchase of a replacement. I, personally, have neither patience nor time for unscheduled problems and would much rather address them at my convenience rather than have my loving bride stranded along side a cold, winter highway. Bottom line... some guys have had good luck with frozen batteries... some guys haven't... > My truck battery has ice in the front hole. The others are still > liquid. I have been working on the truck and I must have left the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Mark >Frozen batteries are, in my humble experience, problems waiting to happen. > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Bottom line... some guys have had good luck with frozen batteries... some >guys haven't... I undstand what you are saying, and I noticed the battery was bulging on the sides, so I am sure the plates were damaged some. I took it off the charger and brought it in the house to thaw. It's back in the garage now, being charged (I wont do it in the house). I'll see if it works now. This is just a farm truck, so it's not real critical, but I do take it out in the field and on short road trips, so I do plan to get a new battery, cuz like you said, I dont care to break down in the cold. But at this point I just want to see if it still works. I have another junker battery to use for a "core". That one is totally shot. I'll keep this one for a spare for the tractors if it still holds a charge. There is one thing I have never understood about batteries. Why does the water in a charged battery not freeze? It's still water..... What does charging do to a battery that prevents the freezing? I just dont understand that concept. Obviously it's not the acid, because the acid is till in an uncharged battery. The other thing, is why dont they use some sort of antifreeze instead of water in them? Batteries do get drained in cold weather, and then they will freeze if left unattended. Even a brand new battery can get drained if (for example) someone gets stuck in a snow bank and needs to leave their headlights on to dig themselves out, or someone had engine problems and keeps cranking till the battery is dead. These things do happen, which means the next thing, while the car is still alongside the road, or in the parking lot at the repair shop, the battery will freeze in winter. So, the age of the battery dont really matter. It just seems using antifreeze would save alot of needlessly ruined batteries in cold climates. Thanks for your help Mark > >Frozen batteries are, in my humble experience, problems waiting to happen. > > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > dont understand that concept. Obviously it's not the acid, because > the acid is till in an uncharged battery. Actually, the liquid in a charged battery *is* a sulphuric acid solution. In a fully charged battery, it's a strong solution. As the battery discharges, the acid solution becomes weaker and weaker, approaching that of water. This is how a hygrometer is able to measure the condition of a battery. Sulphuric acid is denser than plain water, so the float level changes according to the battery charge. The chemical reaction in a battery converts lead + sulphuric acid into lead sulphate + water. Charging a battery reverses this process, just as long as the process hasn't progressed too far and you have an unchargeable 'sulphated' battery. > The other thing, is why dont they use some sort of antifreeze instead > of water in them? Batteries do get drained in cold weather, and then [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > matter. It just seems using antifreeze would save alot of needlessly > ruined batteries in cold climates. There's "dead" (battery below 10 volts and unable to crank the starter) and then there's "really dead" (sulphated). A dead, partially discharged battery still has a strong enough acid solution to prevent freezing. > Thanks for your help > > Mark Bob >> >Frozen batteries are, in my humble experience, problems waiting to >happen. [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > >Bob Thanks Bob I learned something new from your reply, and also know how a hygrometer works too. THANK YOU ! Mark |
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