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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / General Car Topics / April 2006Fuel Not Getting There, Troubleshoot How?
Ford Ranger 2001, fuel injected 3L engine The engine will start if I shoot gas in the air intake, but it won't continue to run. Thus, the cylinders aren't getting fuel. Since the truck had in the recent past ran out of gas (it might even have ran out of gas on *this* occasion; but that's not the prob now; I put in a quarter tank when I arrived), I suspected the fuel filter. Perhaps it clogged with the sludge from the bottom of the tank. I changed the filter where the truck stalled, but it didn't fix the problem. I now have the truck home. When the truck stalled, a cute female with compelling breasts was driving. As I understand, several guys came by and played with things under the hood. I don't know if they did anything. Since the parts stores, which I can't get to easily, were about to close when I came on the scene, as a precaution, I bought a fuel pump relay, but I haven't identified that as the problem. Anyway, I suppose my next step is to take off the fuel line from the back (going to the tank) of the filter, turn on the engine electric, and see if anything is coming out of the fuel line. I haven't done this yet because it's dark now and a storm came up. But while I'm waiting for tomorrow, I'd like to educate myself. For starters, which relay in the fuse box under the hood goes to the fuel pump? The replacement one I have could go in three places where there are similar looking relays. There's no indication on the fuse box cover which relay goes to what, and I don't have a manual. And if anybody can provide any other advice or even sympathy :-), please do. I really (repeat "really" three times) need to get this truck running tomorrow. And tomorrow is Sunday, a bad day for buying parts or calling businesses. To give all the conditions of the problem, I suppose I should also confess that the budget is limited. -- (||) Nehmo (||) Who cares about the car, What about the cute female with the compelling breasts Is she still OK ? Is she your girl friend or sister ? Age ? Anyway....... Have somebody turn ignition on (don't start) and listen for fuel pump coming on briefly Check for fuel press. on fuel rail shredder valve ( BE CAREFUL) Take big hammer and slam bottom of fuel tank a couple of times and see if pump starts up Pump is probably fried, the gasoline helps to cool it down and without fuel press it over revs and overheats Hmmmm, over heats..... gas tank.......DON'T EVER RUN OUTTA FUEL !!!!! > Ford Ranger 2001, fuel injected 3L engine > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > -- > (||) Nehmo (||) So there's a "shredder valve" on the fuel rail? I'll go look right now. What's this valve normally for? Is it just there so you can check pressure? Why is it called "shredder"? And regarding the girl, I'm afraid I can't do much for you. But I wasn't kidding. This is what I was talking about: http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/2562/picture0075vo.jpg -- (||) Nehmo (||) That's Schrader valve (also spelled Schraeder valve)... designed by a man named August Schrader... It's sole purpose in life (in the case of your car) is to allow access to the fuel rail for the purpose of fuel pressure testing, injector flow testing, etc. It looks much like the valve on your tire and should have a platic cap on it to keep dirt and debris out of the connection. If your fuel filter was retricted for any length of time, expect fuel pump concerns.... just like water can erode rocks, fuel can erode pump members..... also, high amp draws associated with heavy pumping can affect the pump motors... The "hammer on the gas tank trick"... use a rubber mallet.... have an assistant try to start the truck while you are tapping the bottom of the tank.... if the truck starts, there is a concern with the pump motor internal connections or (less likely) a concern with the wiring to the pump motor or the bulkhead connector in the pump mounting flange. And Johan.... spelling means EVERYTHING... Google "shredder" valve and see what you get.... FWIW, I dropped out of school in grade 8.... I like to present myself correctly (perhaps not politically correctly, but correctly never-the-less). And I even know when I can safely use "colour" instead of "color" and "centre" in place of "center".... While many search engines are starting to use "fuzzy" logic for spelling, they can only go so far as to deciding what you mean. And... as for what some German name means to us - without this particular German name, how on earth would you get the air into your bicycle tire... Feelin' frisky and <SIGH>, heading for work.... makes over 30 days without a full day off - my loving bride and the taxman are very pleased with me... > So there's a "shredder valve" on the fuel rail? I'll go look right now. > What's this valve normally for? Is it just there so you can check [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > (||) Nehmo (||) Don't take this wrong Nehmo, but the last thing I would advise someone to do would be to take a big hammer and go after the gas tank! Zero that idea altogether! I would although have someone turn the key to the run position just before the starter starts to crank and have someone listen at the gas tank area to see if they here to pump make a niose. It will be like a one second vibrator type noise. ;)... It will not sound like a rear shock air compressor... Yes that Shredder valve will look like a tire valve normally it will have a cap on it similair to a tire valve. The "BE CAREFUL" comes from when you push it in it is going to fly into the air causing your cigarette to cause an explosion! No smoking during this operation, but if you do get pressure at this point you have other problems. If it does end up being the fuel pump; find another car for tomorrow, Easter Sunday. Happy Easter! Gerald > Don't take this wrong Nehmo, but the last thing I would advise someone > to do would be to take a big hammer and go after the gas tank! Zero > that idea altogether! Why not ??? Works about 5 out of 10 times and its a hellofalot easier then pushing the car to your stall :-) I hear you man but allot of people will take a hammer and WAM the gas tank... Do you really want to see this on CNN? I have done allot of stupid things in my life, I have even posted them here, but I don't know the differance between someone that has a clue and someone that does not, so I have to play on the safe side... I would hope that we as good people take what we say here responsibly, if we do not we are going to get people hurt trying to help. > Don't take this wrong Nehmo, but the last thing I would advise someone > to do would be to take a big hammer and go after the gas tank! Zero > that idea altogether! Why not ??? If I didn't know better I would say you are my brother Tim... 5 out of 10 times if you know what you are doing (maybe)... No even if you did know what you were doing it would be a ZERO. Sorry... PLEASE DO NOT SLAM YOUR GAS TANK WITH ANYTHING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gerald !!!!!!!!!!! > I hear you man but allot of people will take a hammer and WAM the gas > tank... Do you really want to see this on CNN? I have done allot of [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Gerald !!!!!!!!!!! Care is always in order with a fuel tank, but I believe you can safely bang on the tank with your open palm or the side of your fist, never a hammer. This procedure has helped me get cars off the highway or shopping mall lot without a tow or on-scene repair. All it takes is a slight jolt to get those brushes in the pump to respond enough to start. Once the pump is running it will likely stay running until the motor is shut down. It may even restart, but once you know the problem, you better to replace it. OK, maybe I should have said "tap" carefully on fuel tank....... > > I hear you man but allot of people will take a hammer and WAM the gas > > tank... Do you really want to see this on CNN? I have done allot of [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > motor is shut down. It may even restart, but once you know the problem, > you better to replace it. I douldn't hear the pump running while I was under there and when someone turned the ignition on and off. I hit the tank several times with the palm of my hand (one area has kind of a curl of a ridge. I guessed that was where the pick-up tube was, and that's where I pounded). Nothing happened. -- (||) Nehmo (||) Whap the freakin gas tank on the bottom with the FLAT side of a board! 2x4 okay, 1x6 even better! Not a hammer, not a mallet, Palm of hand if desperate. It's the 'concussion' effect that gets it started again, if it's going to. Here's what I suggest as a caveat.. "Be aware it's relatively easy to punch a hole in the tank! Self- immolation that may result from penetration of tank is never a good thing." -end of- > I hear you man but allot of people will take a hammer and WAM the gas > tank... Do you really want to see this on CNN? I have done allot of [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Gerald !!!!!!!!!!!  SignatureYeh, I'm a Krusty old Geezer, putting up with my 'smartass' is the price you pay..DEAL with it! > "Be aware it's relatively easy to punch a hole in the tank! Self- > immolation that may result from penetration of tank is never a good > thing." Worse yet, you could lose that overpriced gasoline! SignatureAll relevant people are pertinent. All rude people are impertinent. Therefore, no rude people are relevant. -- Solomon W. Golomb > Yes that Shredder valve Nobody knows how to spell "Schrader"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrader_valve > Don't take this wrong Nehmo, but the last thing I would advise someone > to do would be to take a big hammer and go after the gas tank! Zero [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Gerald Uhmm, Guys... It's called a Schrader valve, after the company that originally made them. It is ok to "hammer" on the tank if you use a rubber mallet. Have someone crank the engine while you smack the tank with the mallet. This will sometimes jar a stuck pump enough to get the car running. It's NOT a "fix". >> Don't take this wrong Nehmo, but the last thing I would advise someone >> to do would be to take a big hammer and go after the gas tank! Zero >> that idea altogether! By the way,did you happen to check the Inertia switch? It's in the passenger kick panel area. Some Ranger owners complain that they trip too easily. I found the inertia switch. I can't seem to press the recessed reset button though. I think it's all the way down already. I don't know if it means anything, but a small stripe of red shows when you look straight at it. When the engine is running, it the switch normally open of normally closed? Signature(||) Nehmo (||) If you can't press the switch so that it stays in place, it means that it hasn't tripped. When the switch trips, while pressing on the button it should lock and stay in place. To be honest, these switches are designed to break contact in an accident or hard impact in a collision so that the fuel pump shuts off and does not pump gas all over the wreckage, as well as the could-be trapped occupants of the car. I would check elsewhere, did you find the fuel pump relay? Sharky Sharky > I would check elsewhere, did you find the fuel pump relay? Nehmo - There are 3 relays similar to the replacement one I bought (assuming that's the right one). The back one clicks when the ignition it turned on. Each one has a little circuit diagram on it - enabling me to test. I bench checked all three, and they all passed. There are also 5 smaller relays. I don't know what they go to. -- (||) Nehmo (||) OK, so aside from the relay, have you checked the manual for a fuse in the fuel pump circuit? Refer to the manual for its' location. I'm not saying that there is one, but if there is it would either be in the fuse panel under the dash or in the distribution block under the hood. If the fuse is good, check the circuit with a test light to see if there is power on it. If you have power, the fuse is not blown, and you can verify that the relay is working, then that pretty much points to a burned out fuel pump in the tank. Or a loose/corroded connection at the top of the sending unit going into the tank Good luck, Sharky I don't have a manual, but I think all the fuses look OK. I'd like to find out which one it is, though. I called the Ford dealership, Midway Ford, but they weren't helpful. I'll try another dealer Monday. Ford really should put basic repair and maintenance info on the web. The fuse box cover has each fuse numbered. Does anybody have a diagram? Signature(||) Nehmo (||) > I don't have a manual, but I think all the fuses look OK. I'd like to > find out which one it is, though. I called the Ford dealership, Midway > Ford, but they weren't helpful. I'll try another dealer Monday. Ford > really should put basic repair and maintenance info on the web. > > The fuse box cover has each fuse numbered. Does anybody have a diagram? There is a fuse diagram in the vehicle owners manual. The manual is available online fron Ford and Helm. What more do you want. Tom Adkins > There is a fuse diagram in the vehicle owners manual. The manual is available online > fron Ford and Helm. What more do you want. Nehmo - You don't mean "available online"; you mean available for *purchase* online. If that's not what you mean, please provide the link. I'd like to go to the Ford site and look up my wiring diagram or power distribution box layout. Many companies provide the entire service information for their products online. This isn't the case with the auto companies. But the issue is moot for me now. I'll be able to get the info today. -- (||) Nehmo (||) It turned out the parts store sold me the wrong relay, but the correct one in the truck tests OK. If anybody wants the Ford Ranger 2001 3.0L Battery Junction Box Fuse and Relay Diagram: http://img424.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fordranger20013lfuse9zr.gif It's in the rear of the box, the second position from the left (first position, the corner, is empty). The fuse is F1.23 , on the right, the second position from the rear. [right and left are the same as the driver's] Signature(||) Nehmo (||) Red seems like trip to me as in a curcuit breaker... Gerald > Don't take this wrong Nehmo, but the last thing I would advise someone > to do would be to take a big hammer and go after the gas tank! Zero [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Yes that Shredder valve will look like a tire valve Schrader valve. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrader_valve I wondered what a shredder valve was! I don't see a Schrader valve on the fuel rail. I'll take a pic and post it. Signature(||) Nehmo (||) I found it. I didn't recognize it because of the cap. Anyway, there's no pressure. Signature(||) Nehmo (||) > Ford Ranger 2001, fuel injected 3L engine > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > To give all the conditions of the problem, I suppose I should also > confess that the budget is limited. Sounds like your outa gas! try this - 1st check and see if the fuel pump reset switch is tripped!!? if that's not the case then Turn your ignition on for 10 seconds then off again and on again for an additional 10 seconds do this about 10 times. then try and start the engine Where is the "fuel pump reset switch" on a 2001 Ranger? Is this a circuit breaker with a button on it? Actually, I can't even figure out which fuse or circuit breaker goes to the fuel pump. The circuit breakers I do find in the under-hood fuse box are the kind without reset buttons. And I don't understand. What's the ten-on-off operation going to do? Is that how you reset some kind of circuit breaker? But it sounds simple enough. I certainly could try it. -- (||) Nehmo (||) The location of the fuel trip reset button is indicated in you owners manual mike hunt > Where is the "fuel pump reset switch" on a 2001 Ranger? Is this a > circuit breaker with a button on it? Actually, I can't even figure out [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > (||) Nehmo (||) Cycling the ignition on and off as Backbone suggested, if the fuel pump is not in fact burned out, should prime the fuel system. All you are doing is turning the fuel pump on and off so as to pump fuel into the fuel lines. As far as the fuel pump relay, on my 1991 Ranger, it is under the distribution block on the passenger side of the truck. Now realizing that my truck is 10 years older than yours, the relay should look the same, and hopefully be in relatively the same spot. Look for a green and black relay that are the same beside each other under the distribution block. The green relay is the fuel pump relay. The inertia switch, or "fuel pump reset", is under the dash on the passenger side, again this is on my 1991, I don't know if they changed the location or not. It may be hidden under the carpet, should look similar to a relay with a reset button on the top of it. If you can't find it, check the index in your owners manual for "inertia switch", it should tell you the location. I agree with Jonah as well though. Too many times if you run the vehicle low on fuel, you will overheat the fuel pump in the gas tank and it will die. The idea behind the pump being mounted so low on the pickup is to try and keep it covered with fuel so as to cool it off, but eventually if the truck is driven long enough without a fill-up, there will be a period where it is not submersed in gas. BTW, your friend has a nice rack :-) Good luck Sharky > Ford Ranger 2001, fuel injected 3L engine > > The engine will start if I shoot gas in the air intake, but it won't > continue to run. Thus, the cylinders aren't getting fuel. Unlikely this is the problem, but it's worth a check. Somewhere (probably on the passenger side foot well or up towards the dash) there's a fuel pump shut off switch. It may be partly enclosed in a plastic housing, but should have an opening in it. It's designed to trip if the truck is wacked. They occasionally trip for no good reason. There's a button on it to push to reset it. RCE Tried that. I can't depress the recessed button. Another poster told me that means it is not tripped. Signature(||) Nehmo (||) Hi Nehmo, Anything new? Did you figure out the problem? Listen... The best way to see this problem though is as follows. We know that you checked the " (German) Schradrer valve" <Possible spelling error... No pressure here... You did find the enertia switch; you tried it and it seemed ok but you mentioned a red color looking like tripped to me. As Temporary meaure I would bypass this switch. Hot leads across the Enertia switch... Do a test and see if the fuel pump works or not, as noted in other emails here you will hear a noise from the gas tank, you will also be able to test at the Valve of the fuel rail. You will at this point also try a test start of the truck. Try to start it... Nothing yet? Zero? Find the wires feeding the fuel pump.... At the gas tank... There is a connector back there... Disconnect and see if you have voltage when someone turns the ignition to run. If you have voltage then your pump has probably failed. If you do not then on to other ideas but we have taken many problems out of the loop... Let me know what is happening... Gerald A mechanic at the Ford dealer didn't know anything about the red stripe on the inertia switch but assured me "if you can't push the button, then it isn't tripped". The red might mean there still is danger of fuel pumping. Yes, I'd like to test the connector for electricity, but where the connector is isn't obvious. I did learn that the parts stores were quoting me on the wrong pump. I looked it up myself on http://www.airtexproducts.com/ . The 8th character in the VIN (either V or U) is important to ID the pump. It refers to the ability of the vehicle to take alcohol-mix fuel. Apparently I need the Airtex E2258 pump, a V, mix-fuel-capable, type. I've been delayed on working on the truck. I needed to work, and had to waste this morning in court. I got a citation for 5 tires and a clothes dryer being in the back yard (visible only to the alley and one neighbor). I was already fined $140 for the same dryer being in the *front* yard, and the inspector, Richard Felix of Kansas City, Kansas, told me I could move it to the back. Now he wrote me again for the same dryer plus the tires. There's no point in arguing these things in court. Unless you bribe someone, or you're connected, you can't win in municipal court. It's no wonder most places around here are vacant. Between the government and the other criminals, it's impossible to live here. I realize this is irrelevant to the thread, but you understand it's on my mind. [And thank you for the concerned post. I needed it.] -- (||) Nehmo (||) The nine year old and I were out for a bike ride yesterday. We came to a busy intersection and as we approached a 93 Tempo stalled out in the right turn lane. I tried a couple quick things and then went for the inertial switch in the trunk. The button appeared to be OK as the red reset was depressed quite a bit. I pushed it hard anyway and then the motor started right up. I suspected the switch itself may have been bad. The vehicle had made no contact with anything although it may have stopped quickly. That would not trip the fuel safety switch, it requires of force of more than one 'G' to disengage mike hunt > The nine year old and I were out for a bike ride yesterday. We came to > a busy intersection and as we approached a 93 Tempo stalled out in the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > bad. The vehicle had made no contact with anything although it may have > stopped quickly. Thanks, you freaking genius. This happens regularly on Ford vehicles. Call it a bad switch or whatever. Anything that exists on a car can malfunction. A hard stop with a certain type of failure mode on the mechanism does set it off. I was there. I pushed the button and the car would then start instantly. Apparently, you know only what you read about the way things are supposed to be theoretically in a textbook. Meanwhile, the rest of us are forced to actually get things done on the road. Your only tool must be your checkbook and your cell phone. Thanks, you freaking genius. This happens regularly on Ford vehicles. Call it a bad switch or whatever. Anything that exists on a car can malfunction. A hard stop with a certain type of failure mode on the mechanism does set it off. I was there. I pushed the button and the car would then start instantly. Apparently, you know only what you read about the way things are supposed to be theoretically in a textbook. Meanwhile, the rest of us are forced to actually get things done on the road. Your only tool must be your checkbook and your cell phone. |
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