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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / General Car Topics / May 2007Malibu vs Camry - have Chevy dealers grown a pair?
Autoblog http://snipurl.com/1kkoi ..some Chevy dealers have grown a pair and are trying a radical move. They're bringing enemy No. 1 right into their showrooms. Chevrolet is confident enough in its forthcoming Malibu redesign http://snipurl.com/1kkou that they're willing to have customers paw all over their mid-size offering and Toyota's Camry http://doiop.com/Camry side by side. Instead of just telling potential Malibu customers that Camry ain't all that [great], Chevy's car marketing director, Cheryl Catton, suggests dealers put one of the best- selling Toyotas right there next to Malibus. Production of the new Malibus begins in October, and GM's ad push for the car begins in January. Look for the Malibu/Camry steel cage death match to begin about then. But wouldn't it be a small sales boost to put a Camry in every Chevy dealership? Catton thought of that, and recommends the Toyotas be rented. [Source: Automotive News http://www.autonews.com/ - Sub. Req.] I have owned Chevy's since 88 and their is not one that I have owned that was not taken in for some warranty work. I now have a new 07 Camry and I can't find a thing wrong with it and I am pretty fussy about leaks and squeaks etc... > Autoblog http://snipurl.com/1kkoi > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > [Source: Automotive News http://www.autonews.com/ - Sub. Req.] > I have owned Chevy's since 88 and their is not one that I have owned that > was not taken in for some warranty work. > I now have a new 07 Camry and I can't find a thing wrong with it and I am > pretty fussy about leaks and squeaks etc... I am constatnly amazed that Toyota owners think they are lviing some sort of unique experience when they get a good Toyota. My parent shad many Fords that never required any warranty work. My current Fusion has 8,000 miles and hasn't been near a dealer since I bought it. Likewise for my son's Mustang. I've had bad Fords and a really lousy Toyota, but I've had some really good Fords as well. In the last decade, the largest out of warranty repair for a Ford was for a coil pack on a Ford Expedition. The only other out of warranty repairs were 1 fuel pump on a 12 year old F150, and an alternator on an Expedition with 100,000 miles. My total cost for all repairs on all the Fords I've owned in the last decade is less that $650. One repair on the last Toyota I owned was that much. But I wouldn't claim all Toyota were like the one I owned, but I don't think you can claim all Toyotas are perfect becasue yours is. According to the JD Power 2006 Initial Quality Study the average new Toyota has 1.06 problems in a year, the average new Ford has 1.27. According to the 2006 JD Power Dependability Survey the average 3 year old Toyota has 1.79 problems and the average three year old Ford has 2.24 problems (interstingly, the average three year old Mercury only has 1.51 problems). I doubt if any of these differences is statistically significant. The reality is that most of the major manufacturers are very close in terms of quality. Ed > > I have owned Chevy's since 88 and their is not one that I have owned that > > was not taken in for some warranty work. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Ed In Australia one indication of which cars are reliable and have long endurance, is indicated by the Taxi companies. They used to buy lots of Chryslers with the Australian Hemi 6 cyl, then when they were bought out by Mitsubishi, they used Fords,..now with the larger Camrys, they are using them. Taxi owners aren't fools :-) Jason > In Australia one indication of which cars are reliable and have long > endurance, is indicated by the Taxi companies. They used to buy lots of > Chryslers with the Australian Hemi 6 cyl, then when they were bought out > by > Mitsubishi, they used Fords,..now with the larger Camrys, they are using > them. Taxi owners aren't fools :-) Using that theory in the US, Fords must be by far the best cars since a large percentage of US taxi's are Ford Crown Victorias, and another large percentage are Mercury Grand Marquis, and a bunch are Lincoln Town Cars. Actually Crown Vistorias must be nearly indestructible. The local cab companies (Raleigh NC) buy lots of used Highway Patrol Cars which have around 75,000 to 100,000 miles, repaint them, and drive them for many many more miles. Ed >>In Australia one indication of which cars are reliable and have long >>endurance, is indicated by the Taxi companies. They used to buy lots of [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Ed Yeah, and those RDU Airport Taxi guys can't drive worth a damn. Jeff DeWitt >>>In Australia one indication of which cars are reliable and have long >>>endurance, is indicated by the Taxi companies. They used to buy lots of [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Yeah, and those RDU Airport Taxi guys can't drive worth a damn. LOL - I think you can say that about a majority of drivers in the area. It is a dangerous mix - Hispanic immigrans, Northrern transplants, and old residents who think the roads past the beltline are dirt paths.... BTW - Did you see the N&O article on speeding? A four part series no less. Ed >>>>In Australia one indication of which cars are reliable and have long >>>>endurance, is indicated by the Taxi companies. They used to buy lots of [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Ed Yep, looks like the N&O is trying to help the local governments with revenue enhancement. Jeff DeWitt > > In Australia one indication of which cars are reliable and have long > > endurance, is indicated by the Taxi companies. They used to buy lots of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > around 75,000 to 100,000 miles, repaint them, and drive them for many many > more miles. I'm talking about smaller fleets of 20 to 30 cars where each cab/taxi is owned by an individual who drives it along with employed drivers,.not a single company operating a fleet driven by drivers. Jason > > > In Australia one indication of which cars are reliable and have long > > > endurance, is indicated by the Taxi companies. They used to buy lots of [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Not sure why you think that would be any different. Where I am located (Raleigh, NC) there are no "big" taxi cab fleets. Almost all the operators have 1 to 10 cabs and the vast majority are Crown Victorias. Lately some of the cab companies are using older mini-vans (I've even seen a Sienna cab) and there are a few Hispanic operators that drive smaller cars (I mean smaller!). When we were in Victoria, BC a couple of years back I saw lots of Toyota Prius's as cabs. When we were in Mexico last year I was wedged into the back of some tiny Chevy being used as a cab (and I mean wedgeed - knees against the front seat, head bowed against the roof). I don't think any of this proves that the cab companies are as smart as you think. I doubt that the operators in BC have enough experience with the Prius to know that over the long haul they are the most cost effective. I suspect the cab operators in my area use CVs becasue used ones are cheap, plentiful, and last forever. I am guessing in Mexico, initial cost is very important. Ed > > In Australia one indication of which cars are reliable and have long > > endurance, is indicated by the Taxi companies. They used to buy lots of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > around 75,000 to 100,000 miles, repaint them, and drive them for many many > more miles. How many more miles? Before retirement,..at least 500,000miles here, some depending on body condition a couple of hundred thousand more. Here many taxi trips are between towns which are minimum 80 to 200 mile 'round trips. Increasing amount of Toyota Camry V6s are doing the job these days. The mix presently is about 60/40 Ford/Toyota. There is always the odd owner who will put a Benz or some other exotic on the road to probably write some tax off with,..but ultimately they want "reliability" first and last, as time off the road = money lost. Jason >>I have owned Chevy's since 88 and their is not one that I have owned that >>was not taken in for some warranty work. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Ed You can update that report in 75k miles, when the Fusion is getting kind of...tired. For people who buy a new car every three years, Fords are ok. >> I have owned Chevy's since 88 and their is not one that I have owned that >> was not taken in for some warranty work. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Ed I'm constantly amazed on how many times you miss the point. He wasnt saying that he's suprised on how flawlessly his Toyota ran. He's doing a comparison on his experiences with both vehicles. Although there are opposite cases where people have better experiences in their Fords than their Toyota, they are the exception, not the rule. This is fact, not opinion. The percentage of Toyota owners who find less trouble with their vehicles than Ford is much greater than the vice versa. You continue to deny the facts. It seems that you're the one that's mesmerized with preaching powers like Jimmy Swaggart's. That's fine though. The rich executives of Ford and GM need your money for their new yachts while they continue to blame the assembly line workers for having too much benefits. I know. My father-in-law is a retired GM executive. Keep buying Fords. Bill Ford Jr's helicopter is over 250 hrs old. He could use a new one. > I'm constantly amazed on how many times you miss the point. He > wasnt > saying that he's suprised on how flawlessly his Toyota ran. He's > doing a comparison on his experiences with both vehicles. He was comparing experiences with a 9 year old Chevy to a new Toyota - hardly apples to apples. > Although > there are opposite cases where people have better experiences in > their > Fords than their Toyota, they are the exception, not the rule. This > is fact, not opinion. Facts require support - where is yours? Calling your opinion a fact, doesn't make it a fact. > The percentage of Toyota owners who find less > trouble with their vehicles than Ford is much greater than the vice > versa. Exactly what do you base this opinion on? BTW, the OP was comapring Chevy's to Toyota's. I am the one with Fords. Comapring a 1988 Chevy to a 2007 Toyota means nothing. Both Chevy and Toyota are building better cars now than 10 years ago. It bugs me when Toyota owners who haven't had a domestic car in a decade, if ever, rave about how much better their new Toyota is than the Chevy their crazyu uncle Bob owned back in the fifties. When I point out that JD Power surveys shows that there is essentially no statistical difference in quality between a 2007 Toyota and a 2007 Chevy or Ford, they claim the JD Powers survey is rigged. Ed The problems I had with GM cars, Saturn, Chevy, were broken seat adjusters, bad brakes (3 times under warranty) , bad alternator, bad fuel injection system, and always sqeaks and rattles and poor fitting interior parts (noe that the dealer could fix) . My Toyotas have had issues, minor rattle (dealer fixed), loose seat track (dealer fixed) , but no powertrain/brake/major electrical system failures. Big difference After warranty the cost soars on the major repairs. Reb >> I have owned Chevy's since 88 and their is not one that I have owned that >> was not taken in for some warranty work. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Ed > The problems I had with GM cars, Saturn, Chevy, were broken seat adjusters, > bad brakes (3 times under warranty) , bad alternator, bad fuel injection [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > After warranty the cost soars on the major repairs. I agree 100%. After the warranty expired on the POS Toyota I owned, the repair costs were outrageous. It only takes the Toyota dealer tryig to stick you up for $500 starters and $400 alternator to convince you to never buy another Toyota. I spent more on out of warranty repiars for one Toyota than I spent on all the other cars I've owned in 38 years combined. Toyota parts are ridiculosly over priced. The biggest out of warranty cost on any of my Fords was a bad coil pack on an Expedition with 100,000 miles. Ed >> The problems I had with GM cars, Saturn, Chevy, were broken seat adjusters, >> bad brakes (3 times under warranty) , bad alternator, bad fuel injection [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Ed hmmm, did the starter myself $52 with core exchange, alterator $42 with core. it ain't rocket science and 3rd party parts on an out of warranty car aren't either. next time they quote you $500, i'll do it for half. and not snicker at you. >>> The problems I had with GM cars, Saturn, Chevy, were broken seat >>> adjusters, [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > next time they quote you $500, i'll do it for half. and not > snicker at you. I actually fixed the starter myself for $0 because a local rebuilder gave me the part I needed. It was Toyota that wanted $500 - they only sold compete starters, no parts, and no one stocked a rebuild back then. Unfortunately nobody gave me a new A/C Condenser or Receiver Dryer, or fixed to crappola transmission for free, or repainted it when the OE paint job fell apart in less tan 3 years. You have to understand, this car wasn't just bad, it was by far the worst car I ever owned - including several British Sports Cars. Not only was it unreliable, it drove like a pick-up truck, was cramped on the inside while being relatively large on the outside, suffer efrom xcessive wind and road noise, didn't even get particularly good gas mileage, the paint literally disintegrated in less than 3 years, and the interior plastic turned milky and warped. I know that current Toyotas are much better (they could hardly be worse), but if it wasn't for my SO, I would not go within 10 miles of a Toyota dealer. However, she likes Toyotas, and since I respect her opinion, I at least considered a Tacoma when I bought my last truck. If the local Toyota dealers weren't such sleezeballs, I probably would have bought a Tacoma last year instead of the Frontier I now have. Ed What is your price of a new power steering pump to fit a 2002 Lexus LS? My dealer charges $1,500, three hours labor @ $110 and an 'environmental charge of $40 > In article <1179437963.563028.326460@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>. >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > next time they quote you $500, i'll do it for half. and not > snicker at you. >What is your price of a new power steering pump to fit a 2002 Lexus LS? My >dealer charges $1,500, three hours labor @ $110 and an 'environmental charge [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> next time they quote you $500, i'll do it for half. and not >> snicker at you. i dunno. let me see what the pump csosts. that does sound retarded, though. called any local parts stores to get their prices? On May 14, 3:11 pm, George Orwell <Use-Author-Supplied-Address- Header@[127.1]> wrote: > Autobloghttp://snipurl.com/1kkoi > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > [Source: Automotive Newshttp://www.autonews.com/- Sub. Req.] If all the Chevy dealers buy a Camty, Camry is sure to stay the #1 nameplate this year.... Ed > On May 14, 3:11 pm, George Orwell <Use-Author-Supplied-Address- > Header@[127.1]> wrote: > > Chevrolet is confident enough in its forthcoming Malibu redesignhttp://snipurl.com/1kkou that they're willing to have customers paw > > all over their mid-size offering and Toyota's Camryhttp://doiop.com/Camryside by side. Instead of just telling potential > > Malibu customers that Camry ain't all that [great], Chevy's car > > marketing director, Cheryl Catton, suggests dealers put one of the best- > > selling Toyotas right there next to Malibus. > If all the Chevy dealers buy a Camty, Camry is sure to stay the #1 > nameplate this year.... I'm sure that there are a lot fewer than 10,000 Chevy dealers. So are you saying that when consumers walk into Chevy dealers and see the Malibu and Camry side by side, enough will choose the Camry to keep that model #1? Camry is loosing sales all on its own. The highest year for Camry sales was 2004 mike >> On May 14, 3:11 pm, George Orwell <Use-Author-Supplied-Address- >> Header@[127.1]> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Malibu and Camry side by side, enough will choose the Camry to keep > that model #1? > >> If all the Chevy dealers buy a Camty, Camry is sure to stay the #1 > >> nameplate this year.... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Malibu and Camry side by side, enough will choose the Camry to keep > > that model #1? > Camry is loosing sales all on its own. The highest year for Camry sales was > 2004 What were the highest years for GM and Ford sales? "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly@my-deja.com> wrote in message > What were the highest years for GM and Ford sales? The Ford numbers were fairly easy to find. The GM numbers were harder - I'll leave that for someone more interested. The best year for Ford sales depends on what you mean when you say "Ford" - If you mean Ford worldwide sales (including Mazda), then 2006 was tops (assuming 2007 will be worse). If you mean worldwide sales not including Mazda, then 2004 was the best (but not by much). If you mean total sales in the US by Ford Motor Company, then it is too complicated for me to figure out today, but I'd guess it was also 2004. If you mean Ford brand US sales only, then 2002 was tops (at least from the data I have - 2002 is as far back as it went). Ford Motor Company Worldwide Sales 2006 Ford - 5,539,455 (51% NA) Lincoln - 130,685 (99% NA) Mercury - 188,579 (97% NA) Aston Martin - 7,000 (30% NA - no longer owned by Ford) Jaguar - 74,953 (29% NA) Volvo - 428,780 (30% NA) Land Rover - 193,640 (26% NA) Mazda - 1,297,966 (not generally included in Ford totals, 28% NA) Total - 6,563,092 (w/o Mazda) / 7,861,058 (w Mazda) 2005 Ford - 5,572,143 (55% NA) Lincoln - 132,496 (99% NA) Mercury - 203,794 (97% NA) Aston Martin - 4,400 (35% NA - no longer owned by Ford) Jaguar - 89,802 (36% NA) Volvo - 443,963 (31% NA) Land Rover - 185,120 (26% NA) Mazda - 1,224,631 (not generally included in Ford totals, 27% NA) Total - 6,631,718 (w/o Mazda) / 7,856,349 (w Mazda) 2004 Ford - 5,548,381 (57% NA) Lincoln - 147,708 (99% NA) Mercury - 200,550 (97% NA) Aston Martin - 2,400 (30% NA - no longer owned by Ford) Jaguar - 118,918 (41% NA) Volvo - 455,950 (34% NA) Land Rover - 162,422 (23% NA) Mazda - 1,188,856 (not generally included in Ford totals, 28% NA) 6,636,329 (w/o Mazda) / 7,825,185 (w Mazda) 2003 Ford - 5,460,935 (60% NA) Lincoln - 169,262 (99% NA) Mercury - 209,072 (98% NA) Aston Martin - 1,514 (33% NA - no longer owned by Ford) Jaguar - 120,570 (48% NA) Volvo - 415,046 (36% NA) Land Rover - 165,163 (25% NA) Mazda - 1,113,219 (not generally included in Ford totals, 29% NA) 6,541,562 (w/o Mazda) / 7,654,781 (w Mazda) 2002 Ford - 5,475,455 (62% NA) Lincoln - 159,651 (99% NA) Mercury - 274,975 (98% NA) Aston Martin - 1,551 (30% NA - no longer owned by Ford) Jaguar - 130,330 (50% NA) Volvo - Not a Ford brand in 2002 Land Rover - Not a Ford brand on 2002 Mazda - 964,800 (not generally included in Ford totals, 36% NA) 6,041,962 (w/o Mazda) / 7,006,761 (w Mazda) Ed GM's record year: 2007, announced 4th May 2007. ;) Ok, I'm otherwise staying outta this one. http://www.autoindustry.co.uk/news/04-05-07_19 GM reports record sales and better automotive profits for first quarter 4th May 2007 General Motors today announced record global sales, and improved automotive profitability and operating cash flow for the for the first quarter of 2007m but net income was $62 million compared with $602 million a year earlier, a fall which GM said was more than accounted for by losses in GMAC's residential mortgage business, driven by continued weakness in the U.S. nonprime mortgage sector. On May 15, 11:10 am, larry moe 'n curly <larrymoencu...@my-deja.com> wrote: > What were the highest years for GM and Ford sales? >> If all the Chevy dealers buy a Camty, Camry is sure to stay the #1 >> nameplate this year.... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Malibu and Camry side by side, enough will choose the Camry to keep > that model #1? I am not sure how many Chevrolet dealerships there are in the US - but I would guess the number is somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000. If they all bought a Camry, this would increase Camry sales by at least 1%. This might be all it takes to stay ahead of the Accord. Of course, many Chevrolet dealerships are part of large dealer groups that already include Toyota stores, so it might be that the actual number of Camry's bought would only be a fraction of the total number of Chevrolet dealers. Ed There's fewer Chevy dealers every day and more Toyota dealers. That's because they sold the only bad one to Ed just to piss him off and charged him triple for maintenance and he paid it. >> On May 14, 3:11 pm, George Orwell <Use-Author-Supplied-Address- >> Header@[127.1]> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Malibu and Camry side by side, enough will choose the Camry to keep > that model #1? > Autoblog http://snipurl.com/1kkoi > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > all over their mid-size offering and Toyota's Camry > http://doiop.com/Camry side by side. Autoblog comments "...you can even put a Toyota sign right next to the Chevy sign on the dealership. Then, once Chevy goes out of business, you can just take down the Chevy sign and move in the rest of the Toyota models....BRILLIANT!" "Wake up GM.... Forget about Camry's customers and try to find yours. I am sure Toyota will be happy with GM's marketing idea; it will work for them more than GM..." "I don't think your average Toyota buyer will even go into a Chevy dealer. What's the point?" |
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