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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / General Car Topics / July 2007GM Shifts to Manual Transmissions for Global Warming
GM Shifts to Manual Transmissions for Global Warming Responding to growing concerns over global warming, General Motors (GM) announced today that it would make all of its vehicles with standard transmissions, starting in 2009. Manual transmissions generally get better fuel mileage than automatics. GM CEO Rick Wagoner described the initiative at a press conference at the company headquarters in Detroit: "We've been coddling our lazy fellow Americans for too long. It's time everyone started using their left foot. This is what Jesus would do." Wagoner said that manual transmissions typically get 2-3 mpg better mileage than the same vehicle equipped with an automatic, and that in some cases the difference can be as much as 5 mpg. GM plans to focus on high-efficiency manuals to minimize the company's output of greenhouse gases. Manuals are also generally considered more fun to drive and less expensive to manufacture and maintain. The GM announcement received a mixed reaction. The late Jerry Falwell rose from his grave to insist that Jesus would have driven a large van with an automatic, because he would need to carry so many of his followers. Other religious leaders hailed the effort to reduce global warming. On the environmental side, NRDC President Frances Beineke applauded the move and encouraged other auto manufacturers to follow suit. http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s8i21068 Well, it's all A SPOOF! You knew it, right? You know that, although making a lot of sense, nothing will make the HUNGRY CORPORATIONS get into a diet. Well, nothing but THE REVOLUTION... http://atom.smasher.org/streetparty/?l1=Coming+Soon%3A&l2=the&l3=Banana+Revoluti on%21&l4= WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote > GM CEO Rick Wagoner described the initiative at a press conference at > the company headquarters in Detroit: "We've been coddling our lazy > fellow Americans for too long. It's time everyone started using their > left foot. This is what Jesus would do." LOL ! It's what most of the world already does. Graham >> GM CEO Rick Wagoner described the initiative at a press conference at >> the company headquarters in Detroit: "We've been coddling our lazy [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Graham Most of the world also bathes once a week or less too, but that doesn't mean a more advanced society like ours needs to do the same thing. Jeff DeWitt > >> GM CEO Rick Wagoner described the initiative at a press conference at > >> the company headquarters in Detroit: "We've been coddling our lazy [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Most of the world also bathes once a week or less too, but that doesn't > mean a more advanced society like ours needs to do the same thing. A more advanced society burns three times as much fuel as Germany and Japan, and still gets no fun out of it? Funny. >>>> GM CEO Rick Wagoner described the initiative at a press conference at >>>> the company headquarters in Detroit: "We've been coddling our lazy [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > A more advanced society burns three times as much fuel as Germany and > Japan, and still gets no fun out of it? Funny. The US is also a Hell of a lot bigger than Germany or Japan... and most folks either don't like stick shifts or don't even know how to use them. And the fact of that matter is that modern automatics are pretty damn good and the gas mileage difference is pretty minor. Jeff DeWitt > The US is also a Hell of a lot bigger than Germany or Japan... and most > folks either don't like stick shifts or don't even know how to use them. > > And the fact of that matter is that modern automatics are pretty damn > good and the gas mileage difference is pretty minor. Actually, a modern computer-controlled automatic is probably better than most stick drivers in terms of fuel economy. However, automatics are more complex and a lot more expensive to fix, and do not last as long as manuals due to the complexity. Ted >> The US is also a Hell of a lot bigger than Germany or Japan... and most >> folks either don't like stick shifts or don't even know how to use [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > However, automatics are more complex and a lot more expensive to > fix, and do not last as long as manuals due to the complexity. I don't know how the stats overall go, but based upon my life experiences there's nothing wrong with an automatic. I've owned a dozen car with autos, one auto getting 160k miles on it while two others got more than 90k miles. None ever required repair and none had an oil/filter change. Dodge Caravans however, were known to have transmission failures, at least back in the 90s. Robert This is utter B.S. because the move to computerized automatics was to better control the engine and shifting, since many people stay in loer gears too long or bluntly don't know haw to drive a standard. As for repairs, I had a friend that priced a manual rebuild, and it was around $1400 at the time, approaximately the same as for an automatic. Roy >> The US is also a Hell of a lot bigger than Germany or Japan... and most >> folks either don't like stick shifts or don't even know how to use them. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Ted > This is utter B.S. because the move to computerized automatics was to better > control the engine and shifting, since many people stay in loer gears too [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> >> Ted The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to worry about shifting at the right time, starting off on hills, down shifting for coming down steep hills, lugging the engine or riding the clutch. And it's hard to steer, shift, hold a cup of coffee and a cell phone all at the same time! But then there are a few oddballs like me who pretty much only drive sticks... my last car with an automatic was also my first car, a Studebaker Hawk. My current car is a Jeep Cherokee and the clutch was still working perfectly when the throwout bearing went out at 300,000 miles. Jeff DeWitt "Jeff DeWitt" <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com> wrote in message > The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to > worry about shifting at the right time, starting off on hills, down > shifting for coming down steep hills, lugging the engine or riding the > clutch. And it's hard to steer, shift, hold a cup of coffee and a cell > phone all at the same time! You got that right. And you have to watch for that light on the dashboard that tells you when to shift. What government agency came up with that dumb idea? Probably 10% of the people driving today should never have been given a license in the first place. Of the rest, a huge number would never pass the test if they had to drive a standard. Hmmm, that should be a requirement. > "Jeff DeWitt" <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com> wrote in message >> The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > license in the first place. Of the rest, a huge number would never pass the > test if they had to drive a standard. Hmmm, that should be a requirement. I suspect it wasn't the government that directly came up with that light, if you pay attention to the light and shift when it says to then your mileage goes up a bit, and if they do that during the EPA test the rated mileage improves. My Jeep doesn't have that light anymore, one time when I was changing some bulbs I took that one out. Jeff DeWitt > "Jeff DeWitt" <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com> wrote in message >> The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > license in the first place. Of the rest, a huge number would never pass the > test if they had to drive a standard. Hmmm, that should be a requirement. Hi... Agreed, but add to that have a car equipped with; and demonstrate the ability to use a hand crank to start it. And be strong and supple enough to change a tire without the use of a jack. Take care. Ken > > "Jeff DeWitt" <JeffDeW...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message > >> The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > And be strong and supple enough to change a tire without the use of > a jack. Maybe the latter is a requirement in Bangla Desh, but the rules of the road as applied in Germany and other civilized countries make more sense... General laws and enforcement The minimum age to drive in Germany is 18. Traffic drives on the right and passes on the left (not the other way around, as some Americans inexplicably think.) Seatbelts must be worn by all passengers. Children under 12 years old or shorter than 1.5 meters may not sit in the front seat unless they are in an approved child safety seat. However, you may not use a child safety seat in the front seat if there is an active airbag. You must leave your doors unlocked while driving to facilitate rescue in an accident. Drivers must have third-party liability insurance. Vehicles must carry a warning triangle (Warndreieck) and a super-duper highway first aid kit (Pkw-Verbandkasten) in which I defy you to find any band-aids. Germany does not require a fire extinguisher (Feuerl?scher), but you may want one anyway. You must place the warning triangle 100 meters behind your vehicle if it is disabled (200 meters on the Autobahn), although I have yet to see anyone actually put it that far back. It is illegal to drive with your parking lights only; you must use your headlights at night and during inclement weather. Motorcyclists must ride with helmets and headlights on at all times. The police are allowed to collect fines (Verwarnungsgeld) for most traffic offenses on the spot. If you don't have enough cash on hand, your vehicle may be impounded (at additional cost to you, of course.) You need not fear when paying spot fines-- the German police are very professional and corruption is very rare, and you will be given a receipt for the payment. Beware of enforcement cameras. Germany probably uses such cameras more than anyone else (except possibly Britain). Automatic cameras are stationed to catch speeders, red-light violators, and tailgaters. Sometimes an obscure sign will warn you of the existence of such a camera, but it's usually too late by then. You'll sometimes spot temporary cameras setup along the side of the Autobahn or on an overpass watching for tailgaters or speeders. Tickets are mailed to the registered owner of the vehicle within a few weeks. http://gettingaroundgermany.home.att.net/regeln.htm#gen >>> "Jeff DeWitt" <JeffDeW...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message >>>> The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > http://gettingaroundgermany.home.att.net/regeln.htm#gen Most of that makes a lot of sense except for the bit about leaving our doors unlocked. Keeping your doors locked makes the vehicle stronger in the event of an accident and the doors are less likely to come open. Jeff DeWitt > >http://gettingaroundgermany.home.att.net/regeln.htm#gen > > Most of that makes a lot of sense except for the bit about leaving our > doors unlocked. Keeping your doors locked makes the vehicle stronger in > the event of an accident and the doors are less likely to come open. I think our public transportation experts deserve a trip to Germany. Hopefully one way. THE AUTOBAHN The Autobahn is the pinnacle of the German driving experience, perhaps the ultimate in driving altogether. Virtually all of the world's serious drivers have heard of it and longed to take their shot at conquering it. Teutonic cars are known for their precise engineering and craftsmanship; the Autobahn completes the driving equation. Some people are disappointed the first time they drive on the Autobahn. They come with visions of a twenty-lane superhighway where cars are barely a blur as they whiz by. In reality, the Autobahn looks like a typical freeway, and despite rumors to the contrary, not everyone is hurtling along at the speed of sound. The stories of speed anarchy are only half correct-- many sections of Autobahn do in fact have speed limits. Still, the Autobahn offers the transcendent driving experience. The roads are superbly designed, built and maintained, even now in the east where the German government had to undo 40 years of Communist "maintenance". Amenities are numerous, and drivers are well-trained and cooperative. It's literally life in the fast lane on the Autobahn (don't tell me you didn't see that coming!) (a lot of stuff here --for Americans) For example... Passing on the right is strictly prohibited! Slower vehicles must move to the right to allow faster traffic to pass, and drivers should stay in the right lane except to pass. When passing, you must do so as quickly as possible, and it's in your best interest to do so lest you become a hood ornament on that Porsche that was just a speck in your mirror a second ago and now is close enough for you to see the look of distain on the driver's face. You are, however, allowed to pass on the right in heavy traffic when vehicles have started queuing, but only at a slow speed. http://gettingaroundgermany.home.att.net/autobahn.htm >>> http://gettingaroundgermany.home.att.net/regeln.htm#gen >> Most of that makes a lot of sense except for the bit about leaving our [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > http://gettingaroundgermany.home.att.net/autobahn.htm I've got no problem at all with banning passing on the right as long as people get out of the way of faster traffic. If a highway has no speed limit then you don't have the problem of left lane bandits self righteously parking themselves in the left lane at exactly the speed limit while traffic flows past them on the right. Jeff DeWitt > >>>http://gettingaroundgermany.home.att.net/regeln.htm#gen > >> Most of that makes a lot of sense except for the bit about leaving our [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > righteously parking themselves in the left lane at exactly the speed > limit while traffic flows past them on the right. Of course, it's all a package. Once you fix one thing, you can't leave the other stuff to the Law of the Jungle. VIGILANTES GOT NO PLACE ON OUR ROADS. > Most of that makes a lot of sense except for the bit about leaving our > doors unlocked. Keeping your doors locked makes the vehicle stronger in > the event of an accident and the doors are less likely to come open. Marginally so Jeff. If the collision is minor enough, then perhaps the locks may help. But, in that kind of collision you're not so likely to be ejected anyway. In more major collisions, the lock is immaterial. When cars tear in half, or doors blow open because the unibody distorts, the locks do nothing.  Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >> Most of that makes a lot of sense except for the bit about leaving our >> doors unlocked. Keeping your doors locked makes the vehicle stronger in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cars tear in half, or doors blow open because the unibody distorts, the > locks do nothing. True enough, but if the car is torn in half the problem of rescue personnel being able to open the doors becomes moot. Keeping the doors locked also makes you a bit safer from people with evil intent... it's a lot harder to carjack someone if your doors are locked. Jeff DeWitt <Snip> > Probably 10% of the people driving today should never have been given a > license in the first place. That I can probably agree with. > Of the rest, a huge number would never pass the test if they had to drive > a standard. Hmmm, that should be a requirement. No offence Ed, but that's like making it a requirement to know how to hook up your new HD-TV/DVD before you buy one (which most people don't). It's rather pointless. If someone wants to drive a manual transmission car, sure, they need to know what they are doing. For those who like there automatic's, why bother them? Let them have what they want, the same as you can. "80 Knight" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message >> Of the rest, a huge number would never pass the test if they had to drive >> a standard. Hmmm, that should be a requirement. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > automatic's, why bother them? Let them have what they want, the same as > you can. It was said in jest, but it would weed out a lot of un-coordinated drivers. The driving test in most states is rather easy and not representative of real life. Sure, it takes some time to develop some skills, but turning loose a 16 year old with a 3000 pound hunk of iron traveling at 70 mph is dangerous. Of course, when I was 16 that was not a problem. > "80 Knight" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> Of the rest, a huge number would never pass the test if they had to drive [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > loose a 16 year old with a 3000 pound hunk of iron traveling at 70 mph is > dangerous. Of course, when I was 16 that was not a problem. Also factor in that there's a minimum score on the driving test (70% in MO) to be achieved ONCE to be licensed for life othr than the eye test and the fees. The driving rules change over time, but I bet 98% of the drvers never pick up the latest driver manual from the state. 16-year-old drivers in my earlier years were quite level-headed and better-trained than that age group now, since drivers ed has been eliminated in a lot of schools. The catch: in my time of originally getting my license, the nationwide SL was 55. I was out of college by the time of the Fed. increase to 65 and near 40 by the time of reverting to state control. > "80 Knight" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message >>> Of the rest, a huge number would never pass the test if they had to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > traveling at 70 mph is dangerous. Of course, when I was 16 that was not a > problem. I think that all depends on the 16 year old. I know 16 year olds who should have the full right to drive. I also know much older adults who shouldn't be allowed within 50 feet of a vehicle. Here in Ontario, we have a "Graduating Licensing" program. At age 16 you start off with a G1, which allows you to drive with someone with a full license only (with other restrictions as well, such as no more then 2(?) other teenagers with you). A G2 means you can drive alone, but there are time-of-day is a factors. A full G means you can drive where you want, when you want, and with whom you want. Does this system work? I can't really say. "80 Knight" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message > I think that all depends on the 16 year old. I know 16 year olds who > should have the full right to drive. I also know much older adults who [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > full G means you can drive where you want, when you want, and with whom > you want. Does this system work? I can't really say. Of course there are exceptions. The graduated license is a good idea IMO, but it has to be enforced by both police and parents. In NY a couple of weeks ago, 5 girls were killed in a head-on. The driver had a junior license and was not allowed to have passengers. She was also text messaging on her cell phone at the time. > "80 Knight" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > in a head-on. The driver had a junior license and was not allowed to have > passengers. She was also text messaging on her cell phone at the time. Text messaging has to be 20 times worse then actually talking on the phone while driving. Though I know text messaging has been out for several years, it seems to have gotten much bigger recently, and I think people need to understand the consequences of not paying attention to the road. Should the Police ticket anyone seen driving with a cell phone in there hands? I don't know, but I think people need to be aware, and most aren't. >> "80 Knight" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message >>>> Of the rest, a huge number would never pass the test if they had to [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > have the full right to drive. I also know much older adults who shouldn't be > allowed within 50 feet of a vehicle. You'd not even let them be a passenger or travel in a bus or taxi? For shame. :-) Cheers, Rich > Here in Ontario, we have a "Graduating > Licensing" program. At age 16 you start off with a G1, which allows you to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > can drive where you want, when you want, and with whom you want. Does this > system work? I can't really say. >allowed within 50 feet of a vehicle. Here in Ontario, we have a "Graduating >Licensing" program. At age 16 you start off with a G1, which allows you to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >can drive where you want, when you want, and with whom you want. Does this >system work? I can't really say. The purpose of the system is to limit insurance companies' exposure to risk while still providing them with their full premium for having a teen driver in the household. It works great for that. SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. On Jul 23, 10:16 pm, russo...@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote: > In article <TMWdnZkx8YBWlT7bnZ2dnUVZ_j-dn...@giganews.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > risk while still providing them with their full premium for having a > teen driver in the household. It works great for that. Allstate ad says 6,000 teens never come back. So I guess 18 years would a much safer age than 16. > On Jul 23, 10:16 pm, russo...@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. > Russotto) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Allstate ad says 6,000 teens never come back. So I guess 18 years > would a much safer age than 16. All you are going to get is older unskilled drivers. Start them off at 13 or 14 off road or on tracks, then by the time they are old enough for a licence, they know how to drive! It worked for me and my 14 year old is competent enough to drive around in paddocks.......... BrianNZ <brian@itnz.co.nz> said in rec.autos.driving: >All you are going to get is older unskilled drivers. Start them off at >13 or 14 off road or on tracks, then by the time they are old enough for >a licence, they know how to drive! Now there's an idea I haven't heard before. Give the kiddies weekly practice at the go-kart track until they are old enough for a permit. At the very least they will know how to avoid collisions. :) SignatureMFFYCam Videos Galore: http://www.geocities.com/mffycam/ http://slothkills.blip.tv/ On Jul 24, 6:18 am, Scott en Aztl?n <scottenazt...@yahoo.com> wrote: > BrianNZ <br...@itnz.co.nz> said in rec.autos.driving: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > MFFYCam Videos Galore:http://www.geocities.com/mffycam/http://slothkills.blip.tv/ A lot more than just that. Handling, momentum, judging distance/ speed, etc. Drawback is that they will know how to get max performance out of machine and may try it on the road...oh, that is what teens tend to do anyhow without any of that early practice. Harry K > The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to > worry about shifting at the right time, starting off on hills, down > shifting for coming down steep hills, lugging the engine or riding the > clutch. Yes these are shocking challenges for citizens of the richest nation on earth. Elsewhere on the planet it seems not to be seen as a problem. Graham >> The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to >> worry about shifting at the right time, starting off on hills, down [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Graham They just don't know any better. Jeff DeWitt >>> The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to >>> worry about shifting at the right time, starting off on hills, down [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > They just don't know any better. Could have fooled me...Korean pickups are more practical than the american ones. Any fool that has trouble using a standard transmission is an uncoordinated syphilitic monkey. I've the coordination of a B movie zombie and I can handle a standard in almost any situation...haven't had the opportunity to drive arctic ice or live lava flows. I agree with a couple others here, people who can't drive a standard are pussies. SignatureKeith Schiffner Reality is motorcycles all else is fantasy. If you don't want to give her a hard ride you aren't a real man. Straight or gay she gets your to grinning and acting like a fool kid. >>>> The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to >>>> worry about shifting at the right time, starting off on hills, down [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I agree with a couple others here, people who can't drive a standard are > pussies. I don't really disagree, but I feel better knowing that the ass-twat in front of me juggling cellphone and coffee mug isn't also contending with a clutch and h-shifter. (I also agree with the consensus; it won't sell here, for the simple reason that freshly applied mascara is vitally important to the masses, for reasons we don't fully understand.) > >>>> The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to > >>>> worry about shifting at the right time, starting off on hills, down [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > for the simple reason that freshly applied mascara is vitally important to > the masses, for reasons we don't fully understand.)- Or maybe we should ban cell phones (and coffee) like they do in Germany (that northern European country)... "Use of mobile phones is prohibited while your vehicle is in operation. The only time you are permitted to use a mobile phone is if you are parked and the engine is turned-off. You may use a hands- free mobile phone when driving if it does not impede your hearing (i.e. one earphone only)." >>>>>> The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to >>>>>> worry about shifting at the right time, starting off on hills, down [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > free mobile phone when driving if it does not impede your hearing > (i.e. one earphone only)." No, NOT COFFEE!!! ANYTHING BUT THAT! However it is a really bad idea to use a regular cell phone while driving... requiring someone to be parked with the engine turned off is a bit extreme but you should at least be stopped. Now banning coffee is something else again, thems fightin words! Jeff DeWitt > > "Use of mobile phones is prohibited while your vehicle is in > > operation. The only time you are permitted to use a mobile phone is [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Now banning coffee is something else again, thems fightin words! You can try one of those hydration systems, right? ;) I was just watching "Littleman" and one soccer mom changes the pampers while driving. It' a comedy but perhaps not too far from real life. >>> "Use of mobile phones is prohibited while your vehicle is in >>> operation. The only time you are permitted to use a mobile phone is [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I was just watching "Littleman" and one soccer mom changes the pampers > while driving. It' a comedy but perhaps not too far from real life. A caffeine IV would be more like it! <G> Jeff DeWitt > Could have fooled me...Korean pickups are more practical than the american > ones. Any fool that has trouble using a standard transmission is an [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I agree with a couple others here, people who can't drive a standard are > pussies. Does it make you feel more like a man to be able to drive a manual? Sounds like someone has a complex. >> Could have fooled me...Korean pickups are more practical than the american >> ones. Any fool that has trouble using a standard transmission is an [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Does it make you feel more like a man to be able to drive a manual? Sounds > like someone has a complex. When it comes right down to it this is the early 21st century and modern automatics are pretty damn good, and with 4 or 5 speeds and lock up torque converters are about as economical as a stick. They are also a lot better when dealing with towing or extreme conditions such as snow. Modern cars have cruise control, keep your brakes from locking up, your wheels from spinning with traction control, keep you cool when it's hot, warm when it's cold, and some cars will even recognize you and set the seats, climate control and audio systems the way you like them. In this world stick shifts are a pretty small deal, and the clutch mechanisms add complexity. I like sticks myself, it's about all I've ever had, but if I keep working where I am my next daily driver is going to have an automatic, a stick shift in stop and go traffic is a PAIN. Jeff DeWitt Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com> said in rec.autos.driving: >In this world stick shifts are a pretty small deal, and the clutch >mechanisms add complexity. And require less maintenance. And are less trouble-prone. SignatureMFFYCam Videos Galore: http://www.geocities.com/mffycam/ http://slothkills.blip.tv/ > Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com> said in rec.autos.driving: > >>In this world stick shifts are a pretty small deal, and the clutch >>mechanisms add complexity. > > And require less maintenance. And are less trouble-prone. So what? Computers are complex too. Do you want to go back to a manual typewriter and adding machine? The only reason that manual transmission is so popular in some countries is that automatics are not as good power wise in smaller cars with small engines. They also have small narrow roads and need small cars. Choice is nice. One transmission over the other does not make you more or less of a man or more or less of an energy hog. The thread was started as a joke and has evolved into a silly name calling match. I think we need to get a life. "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> said in rec.autos.driving: >>>In this world stick shifts are a pretty small deal, and the clutch >>>mechanisms add complexity. >> >> And require less maintenance. And are less trouble-prone. > >So what? So I can understand why some people prefer them. >Computers are complex too. Do you want to go back to a manual >typewriter and adding machine? Even a Cray isn't as complex as your argument. >The only reason that manual transmission is so popular in some countries is >that automatics are not as good power wise in smaller cars with small [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >joke and has evolved into a silly name calling match. I think we need to >get a life. You first. You're the only one who is foaming at the mouth here. SignatureMFFYCam Videos Galore: http://www.geocities.com/mffycam/ http://slothkills.blip.tv/ > "Scott en Aztl?n" <scottenazt...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:63l5a35770fme6imglcv8bpeo601jt87st@4ax.com... > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > that automatics are not as good power wise in smaller cars with small > engines. They also have small narrow roads and need small cars. Fine, let's turn to smaller cars. There's no need for bigger car other that to satisfy your ego, right? > Choice is nice. One transmission over the other does not make you more or > less of a man or more or less of an energy hog. The thread was started as a > joke and has evolved into a silly name calling match. I think we need to > get a life. Choice is nice. All those small, efficient European cars should be allowed here. But they aren't. Too many regulations keep 'em out. >>> Could have fooled me...Korean pickups are more practical than the >>> american ones. Any fool that has trouble using a standard transmission [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > where I am my next daily driver is going to have an automatic, a stick > shift in stop and go traffic is a PAIN. That is the only point I am trying to make. Manual or automatic is a preference. People shouldn't be rated as "good or bad, smart or not-so" based on which transmission they prefer. > > I like sticks myself, it's about all I've ever had, but if I keep working > > where I am my next daily driver is going to have an automatic, a stick [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > preference. People shouldn't be rated as "good or bad, smart or not-so" > based on which transmission they prefer.- Do you also support that cell phone use should be a preference? "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message > Do you also support that cell phone use should be a preference? There are times it can be used safely, there are times it should not be turned on. Good drivers know the difference, but it has no bearing on the type of tramsission you shoose to use. > "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > turned on. Good drivers know the difference, but it has no bearing on the > type of tramsission you shoose to use. AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking leads to cancer. >> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking > leads to cancer. Wow, again. You need to put your tin-foil hat back on and leave mommy's basement more often. > > AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking > > leads to cancer. > > Wow, again. You need to put your tin-foil hat back on and leave mommy's > basement more often. Ok, show me that stick shift drivers are as reckless as automatic ones. >> > AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking >> > leads to cancer. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Ok, show me that stick shift drivers are as reckless as automatic > ones. Seriously, get a grasp on reality. >>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Wow, again. You need to put your tin-foil hat back on and leave mommy's > basement more often. I can loan you my foil hat, it keeps the aliens away. I used to get abducted and gang probed all the time, but with mt new, specially designed foil hat that as a Global warming guru/UFOligist engineered. But wait... if you order NOW you get not one but two foil hats, yes the one with the ex-caliber corona vein and the new dress up design that looks like a Derby... great for those special occasions. SignatureAn ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out http://OutSourcedNews.com The problem with the global warming theory, is that a theory is like a bowl of ice-cream, it only takes a little dab of bullshit to ruin the whole thing. "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message > AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking > leads to cancer. Amazing. Just amazing. I've come up with tall tales at times, but I don't think I can top that one just yet. > "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Amazing. Just amazing. I've come up with tall tales at times, but I don't > think I can top that one just yet. I can "Eating yellow snow is good for you" >> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>> AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > "Eating yellow snow is good for you" I don't know if it's true or not, but I have seen accidents caused by talking on the cell phone and you can't do this when driving a manual transmission. And it's true that automatic drivers are shiftless, ain't it? :-) Cheers, Rich >>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>> AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > talking on the cell phone and you can't do this when driving a manual > transmission. !!?? What makes you think you can't talk on a cellphone in a manual car? It takes no more effort than changing radio stations....... > And it's true that automatic drivers are shiftless, ain't it? :-) > > Cheers, > > Rich Automatics shift.....otherwise you'd have a long day sitting in 'PARK' :) "Rich" <someone@someplace.not> wrote in message > I don't know if it's true or not, but I have seen accidents caused by > talking on the cell phone and you can't do this when driving a manual > transmission. Sorry to hear about your limitations. >>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>> AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > talking on the cell phone and you can't do this when driving a manual > transmission. May I ask why not? >>>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > May I ask why not? Need one hand for the steering wheel, one for the gearshift, no hands left for the phone. I imagine if you had one of those handsfree devices you could work around this little problem, but I don't have one. Cheers, Rich >>>>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>> AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Rich Either cradle the phone on your neck when changing, steer with your knees or say 'hang on a sec.' and change gear with the phone in your hand......... > >>>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >>>>> AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > devices you could work around this little problem, but I don't have > one. Soccer moms wouldn't be driving weren't if it weren't for automatics. They wouldn't attend the soccer games either. "Rich" <someone@someplace.not> wrote in message > Need one hand for the steering wheel, one for the gearshift, no > hands left for the phone. I imagine if you had one of those handsfree > devices you could work around this little problem, but I don't have > one. > > Cheers, Thanks for the laugh. Want me to give you a call from my cell phone while driving a standard and drinking a cup of coffee? It may not be sensible, but there are people doing just that, every day. > "Rich" <someone@someplace.not> wrote in message >> Need one hand for the steering wheel, one for the gearshift, no [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Thanks for the laugh. Want me to give you a call from my cell phone while > driving a standard and drinking a cup of coffee? Errr, I think I'll pass. Driving safely with three kids in the car is enough for me most of the time. If I need to make a call I'll give the phone to my wife. > It may not be sensible, but there are people doing just that, every day. I also don't eat in the car. Maybe I'm weird. Cheers, Rich > "Rich" <some...@someplace.not> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > It may not be sensible, but there are people doing just that, every day. And once moving, just how often does one change gears. Stop lights is about it. Harry K >> "Rich" <some...@someplace.not> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > And once moving, just how often does one change gears. Stop lights is > about it. You've never driven in 580 during rush hour, it's stop and go. And there's no telling when or where you'll have to stop and go. Maybe in Kansas you can leave it in gear and just drive, but here it's unlikely. Cheers, Rich > Harry K >>>>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>> AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > devices you could work around this little problem, but I don't have > one. Come on Rich, be serious here. If someone is a bad driver, it's the driver's fault, not the transmission. Like others stated, it is still conceivable to drive a manual, talk on the phone and steer at the same time, and you know what? That sounds a hell of a lot more dangerous then talking on the phone, steering and not having to worry about changing gears. > >>>>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >>>>>> AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > what? That sounds a hell of a lot more dangerous then talking on the phone, > steering and not having to worry about changing gears.- I don't blame him. If we had more than one life, I wouldn't mind, but we don't. I do ride the scooter in traffic though. It's risk assessment. Perhaps we should send our bicycle planners to Germany... Bicycles In many places in Germany, bicycles are not only a form of recreation or sport, but also an essential method of transportation. It's common to see adults in business suits riding their bike through the city, perhaps with groceries in the basket behind their seat. Cyclists are generally permitted to ride on the street, even if no bike lane is marked. http://www.dw-world.de/popups/popup_printcontent/0,,2481918,00.html If you had to pay $7 a gallon for gas as well as several thousands of dollars a year in taxes on you car, to help pay for "free" medical care, you would likely ride a bike as well. LOL mike > I don't blame him. If we had more than one life, I wouldn't mind, but > we don't. I do ride the scooter in traffic though. It's risk [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > http://www.dw-world.de/popups/popup_printcontent/0,,2481918,00.html > > Need one hand for the steering wheel, one for the gearshift, no > > hands left for the phone. I imagine if you had one of those handsfree [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > what? That sounds a hell of a lot more dangerous then talking on the phone, > steering and not having to worry about changing gears.- OK, I dare you to show to me that those engaged on the phone were driving stick shift in any significant number. And that's as dangerous as DUIs... DRIVERS ON CELL PHONES ARE AS BAD AS DRUNKS UTAH PSYCHOLOGISTS WARN AGAINST CELL PHONE USE WHILE DRIVING HTTP://WWW.UNEWS.UTAH.EDU/P/?R=062206-1 Complete University of Utah Research Paper (http://www.hfes.org/Web/ PubPages/celldrunk.pdf) June 29, 2006 -- Three years after the preliminary results first were presented at a scientific meeting and drew wide attention, University of Utah psychologists have published a study showing that motorists who talk on handheld or hands-free cellular phones are as impaired as drunken drivers. "We found that people are as impaired when they drive and talk on a cell phone as they are when they drive intoxicated at the legal blood- alcohol limit" of 0.08 percent, which is the minimum level that defines illegal drunken driving in most U.S. states, says study co- author Frank Drews, an assistant professor of psychology. "If legislators really want to address driver distraction, then they should consider outlawing cell phone use while driving." Psychology Professor David Strayer, the study's lead author, adds: "Just like you put yourself and other people at risk when you drive drunk, you put yourself and others at risk when you use a cell phone and drive. The level of impairment is very similar." "Clearly the safest course of action is to not use a cell phone while driving," concludes the study by Strayer, Drews and Dennis Crouch, a research associate professor of pharmacology and toxicology. The study was set for publication June 29 in the summer 2006 issue of Human Factors: The Journal of the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society. http://talk.ocregister.com/archive/index.php/t-20618.html Perhaps we can work out an equation here: AUTOMATIC CAR=CELL PHONE=DUI > >> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >>> AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > And it's true that automatic drivers are shiftless, ain't it? :-) Call it "profiling," but Mrs. Hen is a soccer mom that drives an oversized AUTOMATIC SUV while yapping away on the phone. And if you are in a vehicle smaller than hers you are deep s... SUV vs. Scooter "Dedicated to all those injured, mutilated or killed by the Hen and her SUV." I've always wondered what would happen in an accident between SUV an Scooter. It's not so simple. The SUV being so high could totally miss the scooter. Well, I guess this SUV wasn't high enough... Preventing Motorcycle, Scooter Accidents a Matter of Awareness By Ryan Taylor - 17 Jul 2007 In March a BYU student, driving a scooter died of injuries suffered in an accident with an SUV. Adam Cox was riding in the outside lane of University Parkway just behind a car that was driving in the inside lane when an SUV going the opposite direction, turned left and hit Cox, said Capt. Michael Harroun, of the BYU Police Department. Just like Cox's case, most motorcyclists are not at fault when accidents happened, Harroun said. "But they will get the worst of it," he said. Even though Cox was wearing a helmet, he suffered severe head trauma and died after being taken to Utah Valley Regional Medical Center. http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/64865 And remember, you SUV drivers, your distraction can spoil someone's life. Well, I don't mean to offend you, just try not to talk so much on the phone, and if you do, do like the Hen... http://www.thehenshouse.com/index.html DON QUIXOTES OF THE ENVIRONMENT http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote6 "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message > Call it "profiling," but Mrs. Hen is a soccer mom that drives an > oversized AUTOMATIC SUV while yapping away on the phone. And if you > are in a vehicle smaller than hers you are deep s... No, that is not profiling. It is drawing dumb conclusions. If her SUV was blue, you can say it happened because it was blue. No one should drive blue SUV's because they are accident prone. It could have happened even if it was stick shift. Sorry, but since you have little common sense, nothing logical will matter to you. > "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > stick shift. Sorry, but since you have little common sense, nothing logical > will matter to you. He may be a blithering idiot, BUT. His assessment of the mentality of mini-van drivers in general and their attitude to EVERYONE else on the road. That is in my experience a demonstrable FACT. That you've not been assaulted by those c.nts and their cuckolded husbands weaving around the road like they aren't the criminals they are. Then again I've not a shred of respect or care about cagers...that is people who don't ride motorcycles. A proven superior breed of mankind. SignatureKeith Schiffner Reality is motorcycles all else is fantasy. If you don't want to give her a hard ride you aren't a real man. Straight or gay she gets your to grinning and acting like a fool kid. >Then again I've not a shred of respect or care about cagers...that is people who >don't ride motorcycles. A proven superior breed of mankind. Every once in a while, though, some motorcycle rider proves that there is more to superiority than just being a rider. Today, for example, I'm at the head of the queue at a light in the middle of three lanes in my direction. Two left and middle lanes are left turn only and after the turn there is an on-ramp to the right. Behind the cage to my left is the idiot rider. The light goes green and the cage and I proceed, pretty much side-by-side. Halfway though the turn, with no signal or other indication, sh.t-for-brains decides to split between the cage and me yo head for the on-ramp. I had to brake hard to avoid a collision. I don't know whether he heard me express my opinion of his technique. Signature======================================================================== Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make | two, one and one make one." mrkesti at hotmail dot com | - The Who, Bargain "Michael R. Kesti" <michaelkesti@nospam.net> wrote in message > Every once in a while, though, some motorcycle rider proves that there > is more to superiority than just being a rider. Today, for example, I'm [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > on-ramp. I had to brake hard to avoid a collision. I don't know whether > he heard me express my opinion of his technique. If you have a problem with that, don't ever try driving in Rome, or any large city in Italy for that matter. Things like that happen at every light, every day. That yellow line down the center is just a suggestion, not a rule. >>Then again I've not a shred of respect or care about cagers...that is people >>who [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > on-ramp. I had to brake hard to avoid a collision. I don't know whether > he heard me express my opinion of his technique. Hmm, know what. He was ignoring a STUPID law. As such I'd say he demonstrated his superiority to the cagers. <shrug> Except for not using his turn signals he did nothing wrong. There is law and justice...the two rarely meet in the courts. SignatureKeith Schiffner Reality is motorcycles all else is fantasy. If you don't want to give her a hard ride you aren't a real man. Straight or gay she gets your to grinning and acting like a fool kid. >>>Then again I've not a shred of respect or care about cagers...that is people who >>>don't ride motorcycles. A proven superior breed of mankind. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >his superiority to the cagers. <shrug> Except for not using his turn signals he >did nothing wrong. It's not a great surprise to learn that you find no fault with one rider cutting off another. > There is law and justice...the two rarely meet in the courts. Well, sure, but these have little to do with boneheaded stunts in traffic. And yes, Edwin, I've witnessed traffic in Italy. It's about as ridiculous as Schiffner's bullshit. Signature======================================================================== Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make | two, one and one make one." mrkesti at hotmail dot com | - The Who, Bargain on Monday 23 July 2007 04:22 pm, someone posing as Edwin Pawlowski took a rock and etched into the cave: > "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Amazing. Just amazing. I've come up with tall tales at times, but I > don't think I can top that one just yet. And I have no idea what that has to do with global warming! Every time I accidently drive over a Honda Civic or a motorcycle in my Avalanche while talking on the phone and writing a message on my blackberry, I am very sorry about it. Well, usually, anyway. After all, I often get the fenders a bit scratched up. Signaturewww.perfectreign.com >> > I like sticks myself, it's about all I've ever had, but if I keep >> > working [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Do you also support that cell phone use should be a preference? What on earth does that have to do with the preference of transmissions? You really need to think before you post. > >> Could have fooled me...Korean pickups are more practical than the american > >> ones. Any fool that has trouble using a standard transmission is an [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > warm when it's cold, and some cars will even recognize you and set the > seats, climate control and audio systems the way you like them. But they won't prevent the driver from wandering mentally. Actually, the aid it. > In this world stick shifts are a pretty small deal, and the clutch > mechanisms add complexity. > > I like sticks myself, it's about all I've ever had, but if I keep > working where I am my next daily driver is going to have an automatic, a > stick shift in stop and go traffic is a PAIN. Driving in those conditions is a pain no matter what. Try Public Transportation. >>>> Could have fooled me...Korean pickups are more practical than the american >>>> ones. Any fool that has trouble using a standard transmission is an [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > But they won't prevent the driver from wandering mentally. Actually, > the aid it. Well yes and no. The audio system can be a big help in keeping a driver awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate I've been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. >> In this world stick shifts are a pretty small deal, and the clutch >> mechanisms add complexity. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Driving in those conditions is a pain no matter what. Try Public > Transportation. Not an option. Depending on traffic it takes me 30-45 minuites to get to or from work. If I were to take the bus I'd still have to drive a few miles to get to a bus stop, then change busses twice to get to work and three times to get home. My daily commute time would increase from about 90 minutes to over 5 hours. It just ain't gonna happen. Jeff DeWitt > awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate I've > been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. The problem is that the problem-drivers are unaware that *they* *are* the problem. >> awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate I've >> been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. > > The problem is that the problem-drivers are unaware that *they* *are* > the problem. So what's your point? Are you saying I'm a problem driver because I like listening to books on long drives? Jeff DeWitt >>> awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate I've >>> been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > So what's your point? Are you saying I'm a problem driver because I like > listening to books on long drives? Does that need much explanining? Inalert and inattentive drivers are problems. >>>> awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate >>>> I've been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Does that need much explanining? Inalert and inattentive drivers are > problems. Yep, and that's why audiobooks and things like talk radio are can be really helpful on long trips. Jeff DeWitt >>>>> awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate I've >>>>> been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Yep, and that's why audiobooks and things like talk radio are can be > really helpful on long trips. I didn't really hold out much hope my two simple sentences would break through the bony resolve and denial. It's worth repeating, though: problem-drivers just don't know that they are the problem. > >>>>> awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate I've > >>>>> been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Either that or they don't care (or both). They do provide plenty of examples for MFFY comments and Darwin temptations. >>>>>> awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate >>>>>> I've been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > through the bony resolve and denial. It's worth repeating, though: > problem-drivers just don't know that they are the problem. Cute, this is like asking "Have you stopped beating your wife?". Jeff DeWitt >>>>>>> awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate >>>>>>> I've been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Cute, this is like asking "Have you stopped beating your wife?". Do you really think so, Jeff? My complaint is with unalert and inattentive drivers. "A good audiobook has helped keep me alert," you said. Am I taking you too literally? Nope. The entire concept is foreign to my mental patterns while driving. The fact of the matter is, very few of us can account for every minute we spent on the road. Almost everyone out there just zips along in their stupor. So just shrug your shoulders, make note of the possibility if you wish, and then move on. What do you care what I think? After 30+ years of dawning awareness and a few moments of clarity, do you think I still hold hopes of changing the world overnight? Phhht. >>>>>>>> awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring >>>>>>>> Interstate I've been on where a good audiobook has helped keep [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > years of dawning awareness and a few moments of clarity, do you think I > still hold hopes of changing the world overnight? Phhht. When you are burning concrete with the miles streaming by no you can't account for every minute. It is part of the way we are built to go into automatic mode when we are repeating the same repetitious actions hour after hour. Anything that helps keep your mind busy helps keep you alert, plus I LIKE listening to books, and generally listen to books that I'd never read. On a long road trip I make a habit of stopping once an hour or so to stretch my legs and I'll usually get something to drink such as a Coke or cup of coffee. If I really start feeling tired I'll pull into a rest stop and sleep for a while. I LOVE doing what I call road thrashes, that is driving really long distances without any planned stops, such as last summer when I drove from Raleigh NC to St. Louis, and that's just what I did. Jeff DeWitt <snip> > I LOVE doing what I call road thrashes, > that is driving really long distances without any planned stops, such as > last summer when I drove from Raleigh NC to St. Louis, and that's just > what I did. > > Jeff DeWitt A motorcyclist trapped in a car drivers body!......A transvehicle? LOVE is a such a strong word. :) > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > LOVE is a such a strong word. :) It fits, what I'd REALLY like to do is get in my Studebaker pickup (after considerable work of course!) along with my big goofy dog and drive north... ALL the way north to Alaska. Motorcycles are cool, but bugs, rocks thrown up from trucks and idiots in cars aren't. I've put 4 windshields in my Jeep (and need one in my truck) because of rocks from trucks, anything that hits hard enough to crack that thick glass would have to HURT if it hit you. Jeff DeWitt >> <snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > of rocks from trucks, anything that hits hard enough to crack that thick glass > would have to HURT if it hit you. You would be surprised how rarely that happens. Bird strikes on the other hand...... >> <snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > (after considerable work of course!) along with my big goofy dog and > drive north... ALL the way north to Alaska. Sounds like fun, but ditch the dog for a young hardbelly to keep you warm at nights..... :) > Motorcycles are cool, but bugs, rocks thrown up from trucks and idiots > in cars aren't. I've put 4 windshields in my Jeep (and need one in my > truck) because of rocks from trucks, anything that hits hard enough to > crack that thick glass would have to HURT if it hit you. > > Jeff DeWitt Most of the stones Iv'e been hit with have been from the back wheel of the bike in front of me! I always have a headlight protector now..... The biggest hurt from being hit was from a duck to my left shoulder. That was a meaty thud that nearly knocked me off. Bugs are OK unless they are the stinging type and in my helmet. >> <snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Jeff DeWitt Been on Scooters since I was 15 and it's fun, but it's better on back roads, away from the 18 wheelers that lose tires and leave scrap all over the road. I've been hit by big bugs... they sting but the worst had to be an empty plastic trash bag at 70mph, it flew up and nearly tore me off the bike. SignatureAn ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out http://OutSourcedNews.com The problem with the global warming theory, is that a theory is like a bowl of ice-cream, it only takes a little dab of bullshit to ruin the whole thing. > >>>> awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate > >>>> I've been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Personally, I find that listening to talk radio is does affect my driving awareness. Especially if the debate is on a subject I care about. Without radio it is rare to glance in a mirror and find a vehicle around that I didn't know about. With radio, it is common. I don't run the radio much any more. Harry K >>>>>> awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate >>>>>> I've been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Harry K I very rarely find a vehicle near me that I wasn't aware of, radio or not. Jeff DeWitt > >>>> Could have fooled me...Korean pickups are more practical than the american > >>>> ones. Any fool that has trouble using a standard transmission is an [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > It just ain't gonna happen. I know lousy Public Transportation drives you into driving a car, but we are talking about fixing that too. And bicycling also. For example, you can catch a bus with a foldable bike (I own one of those), which you then use for shorter distances, and fold it when you get to the office. Of course, we need to create Bike Lanes too. >>>>> Does it make you feel more like a man to be able to drive a manual? Sounds >>>>> like someone has a complex. If everything were so easy like building a bridge or house or driving a stick.... Women and children would be building and driving them. SignatureAn ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out http://OutSourcedNews.com The problem with the global warming theory, is that a theory is like a bowl of ice-cream, it only takes a little dab of bullshit to ruin the whole thing. > >>>>> Does it make you feel more like a man to be able to drive a manual? Sounds > >>>>> like someone has a complex. > > If everything were so easy like building a bridge or house or driving a > stick.... Women and children would be building and driving them. I know, but some say American car companies can't build a decent one. >>>>>>> Does it make you feel more like a man to be able to drive a manual? Sounds >>>>>>> like someone has a complex. >> If everything were so easy like building a bridge or house or driving a >> stick.... Women and children would be building and driving them. > > I know, but some say American car companies can't build a decent one. "Some say" a lot of things... shall I tell you about my Jeep Cherokee with 300,000+ miles? Or how about the Ford Granada I had that the only thing I had to replace in 100,000 miles was a water pump, and that was it's SECOND 100,000 miles. Jeff DeWitt "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message > I know lousy Public Transportation drives you into driving a car, but > we are talking about fixing that too. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and fold it when you get to the office. Of course, we need to create > Bike Lanes too. Well get busy. There are days I'd like to sit back and read the paper on a bus or train, but I don't have that option. Drive, bike, or walk the 26 miles each way. . >When it comes right down to it this is the early 21st century and modern >automatics are pretty damn good, and with 4 or 5 speeds and lock up >torque converters are about as economical as a stick. They are also a >lot better when dealing with towing or extreme conditions such as snow. Snow? Having full control over when your car shifts is better in the snow than having an automatic which might shift (and break the wheels loose) when you don't want it to. >In this world stick shifts are a pretty small deal, and the clutch >mechanisms add complexity. The clutch mechanism is far less complex than the clutch mechanisms in an automatic. SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. "Matthew T. Russotto" <russotto@grace.speakeasy.net> wrote in message > Snow? Having full control over when your car shifts is better in the > snow than having an automatic which might shift (and break the wheels > loose) when you don't want it to. I can do that with my Hyundai Sonata 5 speed auto. Second shift start too. >> When it comes right down to it this is the early 21st century and modern >> automatics are pretty damn good, and with 4 or 5 speeds and lock up [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > snow than having an automatic which might shift (and break the wheels > loose) when you don't want it to. You can lock the transmission in gear if you need too, but it's a lot easier to apply gentle amounts of power with a automatic than it is a clutch... someone who knows what they are doing can do that with a clutch too, but your likely to smoke some expensive parts if you do it too much. >> In this world stick shifts are a pretty small deal, and the clutch >> mechanisms add complexity. > > The clutch mechanism is far less complex than the clutch mechanisms in > an automatic. Yep, but those clutches last the life of the transmission, while the clutch in a stick shift car tends to wear out long before the transmission, especially with an unskilled driver... like the idiots who sit on hills at lights holding the car on the clutch. Jeff DeWitt >>> When it comes right down to it this is the early 21st century and modern >>> automatics are pretty damn good, and with 4 or 5 speeds and lock up [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >easier to apply gentle amounts of power with a automatic than it is a >clutch... Far easier with a standard than with an automatic which can't be prevented from downshifting (the Hyundai mentioned upthread is unusual in this regard). With the automatic, you can be applying a little bit of power getting moving on a slick surface and it decides to shift and breaks you loose. >> The clutch mechanism is far less complex than the clutch mechanisms in >> an automatic. > >Yep, but those clutches last the life of the transmission, while the >clutch in a stick shift car tends to wear out long before the >transmission, especially with an unskilled driver... The AT clutches last the life of the transmission because when they fail, the transmission's life is over -- it's replace-or-rebuild time. SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. >>>> When it comes right down to it this is the early 21st century and modern >>>> automatics are pretty damn good, and with 4 or 5 speeds and lock up [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > of power getting moving on a slick surface and it decides to > shift and breaks you loose. Why would it shift if your just applying a little bit of power? >>> The clutch mechanism is far less complex than the clutch mechanisms in >>> an automatic. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The AT clutches last the life of the transmission because when they > fail, the transmission's life is over -- it's replace-or-rebuild time. True enough, but the automatic can take a LOT of abuse that a stick and a clutch won't. It's tough to grind gears with an automatic and if some doofus holds the car on a hill by giving it a bit of gas all that's going to do is waste some gas, the same stunt with a stick (slipping the clutch) will fry it in short order. Jeff DeWitt >>>>> When it comes right down to it this is the early 21st century and >>>>> modern automatics are pretty damn good, and with 4 or 5 speeds and [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Jeff DeWitt U-Joints... they take a beating in a standard trans. SignatureAn ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out http://OutSourcedNews.com Our constitution protects aliens, drunks and U.S. Senators. The problem with the global warming theory, is that a theory is like a bowl of ice-cream, it only takes a little dab of bullshit to ruin the whole thing. >>>>>> When it comes right down to it this is the early 21st century and >>>>>> modern automatics are pretty damn good, and with 4 or 5 speeds and [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > U-Joints... they take a beating in a standard trans. Potentially yes, I've still got my original ones though. Jeff DeWitt >> Far easier with a standard than with an automatic which can't be >> prevented from downshifting (the Hyundai mentioned upthread is unusual [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Why would it shift if your just applying a little bit of power? Damned if I know; that's sort of the point; it shifts when it wants to, not when you want it to. SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. >>> Far easier with a standard than with an automatic which can't be >>> prevented from downshifting (the Hyundai mentioned upthread is unusual [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Damned if I know; that's sort of the point; it shifts when it wants > to, not when you want it to. In a word... No. Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net > > In article <46a2c2f9$0$16571$4c368...@roadrunner.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Jeff DeWitt I get the impression that you haven't driven a manual very much. Clutches do not wear out in any reasonable amount of time unless they are heavily abused. I have been driving them for 60 years now and have only replaced one clutch plate and one pilot bearing and that only because I was replacing an engine and it was a smart thing to do. As to applying a 'little bit of power' - why would you slip the clutch to do it? It is done just like an auto, step on the gas just a little bit. You might also want to gear up to a faster gear, 2nd normally for starting, and just feather the go pedal. The nice thing about a manual in snow is that I can feel what is happening at the wheels. Can't do it with an auto. Harry K >>> In article <46a2c2f9$0$16571$4c368...@roadrunner.com>, >>>> When it comes right down to it this is the early 21st century and modern [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Harry K Who ME? The last car I had with an automatic was my first car, a 1960 Studebaker Hawk, everything since has had a stick, including a Ford Granada with a 4 speed. The original clutch in my Jeep Cherokee lasted 300,000 miles when the throwout bearing started squalling, but the clutch was still working perfectly. As far as the friction surface goes I have NEVER worn out a clutch in the 30 years I've been driving. I can and have pulled my (2 wheel drive open rear end) Jeep out of some really nasty stuff using second gear and a very gentle touch on the clutch and gas, but most people would have a much harder time of it. Jeff DeWitt >> Could have fooled me...Korean pickups are more practical than the american >> ones. Any fool that has trouble using a standard transmission is an [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Does it make you feel more like a man to be able to drive a manual? Sounds > like someone has a complex. No rather I have the satisfaction of another skill set. 8^) The more you can do the less you need someone to do it for you...I could get by without a government even. SignatureKeith Schiffner Reality is motorcycles all else is fantasy. If you don't want to give her a hard ride you aren't a real man. Straight or gay she gets your to grinning and acting like a fool kid. On Jul 21, 3:42 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to > > worry about shifting at the right time, starting off on hills, down [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Elsewhere on the planet it seems not to be seen as a problem. The right to be reckless and wasteful should never be challenged so lightly. Carry a little American flag (or bigger if you want to impress) on your SUV to show your patriotism. > On Jul 21, 3:42 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > lightly. Carry a little American flag (or bigger if you want to > impress) on your SUV to show your patriotism. Your assuming having an automatic is "reckless and wasteful", it's neither. Just keeping your tire pressure right would make about as much difference. And yes, I have small American flags on both my SUV and my pickup, both of which have sticks and both of which get 20 mpg or better... and the truck is a 48 year old Studebaker with a Stude V8. Jeff DeWitt > > On Jul 21, 3:42 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > of which have sticks and both of which get 20 mpg or better... and the > truck is a 48 year old Studebaker with a Stude V8. Well, I'm talking about the proliferation of flag-waving SUVs, which you saw right after the invasion of Iraq. They are mostly gone though, as they are not happy with the higher gas prices and perhaps with the fact that the war didn't go right. But, yes, any way you can PROVE your patriotism is great, whether that's keeping the tires full, or driving a stickshift. Also using more Public Transportation and bikes... (from the EPA itself) Give your car a break Use public transportation , carpool or walk or bike whenever possible to avoid using your car. Leaving your car at home just two days a week will reduce greenhouse gas emissions by an average of 1,600 pounds per year. Whenever possible, combine activities and errands into one trip. For daily commuting, consider options like telecommuting (working from home via phone or over the Internet) that can reduce the stress of commuting, reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and save you money. http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/wycd/actionsteps.html >>> On Jul 21, 3:42 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com> >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/wycd/actionsteps.html The next time I take advice from the EPA will be the first time... Jeff DeWitt > >http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/wycd/actionsteps.html > > The next time I take advice from the EPA will be the first time... It's a government agency... Or you don't trust the government? Well, I don't either, but that makes sense. >>> http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/wycd/actionsteps.html >> The next time I take advice from the EPA will be the first time... > > It's a government agency... Or you don't trust the government? > > Well, I don't either, but that makes sense. I trust the government about as far as I can throw it... and I especially don't trust it when it comes to "climate change". Jeff DeWitt > >>>http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/wycd/actionsteps.html > >> The next time I take advice from the EPA will be the first time... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I trust the government about as far as I can throw it... and I > especially don't trust it when it comes to "climate change". I don't even need to listen to their arguments. My common sense tells me it's happening. And I'm already doing my share (when I can) to fight Global Warming. For example... Can you make it to the market on a bike? Well, I thought I'd never live long enough to do such a thing in America. It keeps me fit, and hungry enough to enjoy all that great (and not so great) food, as well as keeps me away from the crowd that uses an SUV to go and get a gallon of milk --or worse, cigarettes. Luckily in my new place I can do such a thing, if not by design by chance. I can ride leisurely my cruiser with huge baskets to the supermaket through some quiet, safe streets, about 0.7 mile. I bet most American are not so lucky, and I don't think the share of bicycle use for shopping and similar real life errands is any higher than the percentage that commutes by bike, about 1% or so, right? Regrettably, my happiness ends at this point as going any further places me right on major roads, where the major predators rule. And that's a jungle that makes me nervous. Great places are within biking distance, up to 15 miles, along parks, beaches and scenic places, but NO BIKE LANES are provided, and I just play it safe. As a matter of fact the need to enjoy all this made me found another way to get out there in the open air without being at the very bottom of the food chain. So I just got a scooter that allows me to drive with traffic, if not strictly pollution free, at least rewarding me with a good 80MPG. So this is my modest effort to fight Global Warming, and I hope I live long enough in these Darwinian roads to tell my offspring. And now off I go with my bike (buying nothing in particular, just going to the market for the hell of it)... WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote BIKE FOR PEACE http://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace > I don't even need to listen to their arguments. My common sense tells > me it's happening. And I'm already doing my share (when I can) to > fight Global Warming. For example... It may be happening, but the government and the control freaks tell you it's CO2 and they have the solution to save you, only if you do what they tell you. Only if you obey them. The entire solar system is heating up, there are no SUVs on Mars or the moons of the gas giants. Solar output is up. This next solar max will likely be the highest on record. Something is happening, but it has nothing to do with CO2. Plus, the core of CO2 global warming theory was long ago blown to bits when further analysis showed that first temp went up FOLLOWED by CO2. > Can you make it to the market on a bike? I can walk to the closest one. >> I don't even need to listen to their arguments. My common sense tells >> me it's happening. And I'm already doing my share (when I can) to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > ago blown to bits when further analysis showed that first temp went up > FOLLOWED by CO2. Don't bother mentions that any one volcano produce signifigantly more CO2 than homo sapiens ever could. >> Can you make it to the market on a bike? > > I can walk to the closest one. ditto and my nearest bar(s) are even closer and pretty much any place I need. On Jul 23, 9:59 am, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote: > In article <1185195966.691535.288...@m3g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, donquijote1954 wrote: > > I don't even need to listen to their arguments. My common sense tells [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > ago blown to bits when further analysis showed that first temp went up > FOLLOWED by CO2. Do you believe in Science? Or you still believe the Earth is flat... "While evidence suggests fluctuations in solar activity can affect climate on Earth, and that it has done so in the past, the majority of climate scientists and astrophysicists agree that the sun is not to blame for the current and historically sudden uptick in global temperatures on Earth, which seems to be mostly a mess created by our own species." http://www.livescience.com/environment/070312_solarsys_warming.html > > Can you make it to the market on a bike? > > I can walk to the closest one. You can, but do you? Maybe you SUV there, right? > On Jul 23, 9:59 am, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P) > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Do you believe in Science? Or you still believe the Earth is flat... I believe in science. Science, if you look at all of it, discredits the CO2 global warming theory. You however are believer of the CO2 global warming religion. > "While evidence suggests fluctuations in solar activity can affect > climate on Earth, and that it has done so in the past, the majority of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > http://www.livescience.com/environment/070312_solarsys_warming.html I'm sorry, that's not science. That's religion or at best politics. >> > Can you make it to the market on a bike? >> >> I can walk to the closest one. > > You can, but do you? Maybe you SUV there, right? I wouldn't drive an SUV if you paid me to drive one. I see you're still a stupid troll. >>>>> GM CEO Rick Wagoner described the initiative at a press conference at >>>>> the company headquarters in Detroit: "We've been coddling our lazy [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Jeff DeWitt American fat heads need their fat cars for their fat wallets. SignatureCockamamie Khomeini Leader of the known (Islamic) world. >>>>>> GM CEO Rick Wagoner described the initiative at a press conference at >>>>>> the company headquarters in Detroit: "We've been coddling our lazy [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> >> Jeff DeWitt\ > American fat heads need their fat cars for their fat wallets. 8^) Yet again you prove how pig ignorant you are...at least once a month my grocery drive is over 130 miles, decent coffee is directly the opposite direction and the same difference. One of those little pissant euro cars wont work, neither does the small stuff from Asia. They wear out and blow up in less than 150,000 miles. BTDT wore out a geo metro in central Texas and those are short drives...wore out two motors at less than 80,000 miles each. So please don't patronize me...that boat don't float junior. CVT's are nice but wont hold up, the new automatics are getting as good or better than the manuals and a motorcycles is THE perfect transport for two people. You madam are a compleate whack job. SignatureKeith Schiffner f.ck THE REVOLUTION!! Reality is motorcycles all else is fantasy. If you don't want to give her a hard ride you aren't a real man. Straight or gay she gets your to grinning and acting like a fool kid. Your ID says all that needs to be said about you. Jeff DeWitt >>>>>> GM CEO Rick Wagoner described the initiative at a press conference at >>>>>> the company headquarters in Detroit: "We've been coddling our lazy [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> Jeff DeWitt > American fat heads need their fat cars for their fat wallets. > American fat heads need their fat cars for their fat wallets. I'd put it in other words: American car companies need fat wallets to keem their hunger satisfied. When will they make something cute and smart like this... http://forums.europeancarweb.com/70/6239725/open-forum/new-fiat-500/index.html Never. Not enough to eat, right? >> American fat heads need their fat cars for their fat wallets. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Never. Not enough to eat, right? When there is a market for it. Cars that small have always have a tough time here, we are big people and this is a big country. A car like that is perfect for buzzing around Italy and the cities of Europe with streets designed for oxen but in the US they make a lot less sense. Driving that car in my daily commute would be almost as scary as driving a Smart, on an Interstate highway with heavy traffic made up of SUV's, Freightliners, and Minivan people all moving at 70-80 mph is not a happy thought! And THAT car, at least with the Fiat name on it, would have an especially hard time here, Fiat throughly trashed their reputation here years ago. A pity, because from everything I've read the new Fiat 500 is a VERY nice piece of work. If they bring it over here with the Abarth name as they have been talking about it might sell, although not in huge numbers. Jeff DeWitt > > Never. Not enough to eat, right? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > around Italy and the cities of Europe with streets designed for oxen but > in the US they make a lot less sense. Wait a minute, you tell me you don't trust the government for climate change, but you trust it enough to keep a little car off the market? Have you thought that some people may actually benefit from such little cars in city traffic? > Driving that car in my daily commute would be almost as scary as driving > a Smart, on an Interstate highway with heavy traffic made up of SUV's, > Freightliners, and Minivan people all moving at 70-80 mph is not a happy > thought! OK, at least here you admit there's a Darwinian jungle out there where bigger is better. > And THAT car, at least with the Fiat name on it, would have an > especially hard time here, Fiat throughly trashed their reputation here > years ago. A pity, because from everything I've read the new Fiat 500 > is a VERY nice piece of work. If they bring it over here with the > Abarth name as they have been talking about it might sell, although not > in huge numbers. Well, as far as me goes, Toyota is a dirty name after my experience with a Tercel. Does that make Toyota a piece of junk? Well, maybe it does but let other people vote with their wallet. Just don't let the government tell you Fiat is no good for you. >>> Never. Not enough to eat, right? >> When there is a market for it. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Have you thought that some people may actually benefit from such > little cars in city traffic? I'm not saying that at all. If Fiat thinks it can sell the 500 here by all means bring it on, it makes more sense than a Smart. Our automobile market is the most open in the world, and so the most competitive... it's TOUGH to be a success in this market. >> Driving that car in my daily commute would be almost as scary as driving >> a Smart, on an Interstate highway with heavy traffic made up of SUV's, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > does but let other people vote with their wallet. Just don't let the > government tell you Fiat is no good for you. Yes, OK you had a bad Tercel, and Toyota had a really bad (but well covered up) problem with sludged up engines but Fiat didn't just have one lemon, they were pretty much ALL lemons. I had a 128 and it was a neat little car... when it worked. The X-19 was the coolest little thing around at the time, but mechanically it was a world class POS. Fiat EARNED ever bit of their bad reputation. All of that being said I still love the little 2000 Spiders... absolutely beautiful little cars, and for Fiats they were pretty good. Jeff DeWitt >> American fat heads need their fat cars for their fat wallets. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Never. Not enough to eat, right? Incorrect. It's ugly as can be. > >> American fat heads need their fat cars for their fat wallets. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Incorrect. It's ugly as can be. Ugly ducking. But not ugly monster... http://www.marketingshift.com/images/internationalSUV-7300cxt.gif >>>> American fat heads need their fat cars for their fat wallets. >>> I'd put it in other words: American car companies need fat wallets to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > http://www.marketingshift.com/images/internationalSUV-7300cxt.gif Now THAT'S cool! I see one of those once in a while, it's absolutely absurd, makes no sense at all, and I love it! Jeff DeWitt SNIP >> http://www.marketingshift.com/images/internationalSUV-7300cxt.gif > > Now THAT'S cool! I see one of those once in a while, it's absolutely absurd, > makes no sense at all, and I love it! > > Jeff DeWitt Still has at least one wheel too many. Motorcycles and sidecars promote togetherness and trust...no cage (car) can ever do that. on Friday 20 July 2007 05:07 am, someone posing as Cockamamie Khomeini took a rock and etched into the cave: >> And the fact of that matter is that modern automatics are pretty damn >> good and the gas mileage difference is pretty minor. >> > American fat heads need their fat cars for their fat wallets. You sure you're not talking about how Arabs need fat cars for their fat wallets? Signaturewww.perfectreign.com > on Friday 20 July 2007 05:07 am, someone posing as Cockamamie Khomeini took > a rock and etched into the cave: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You sure you're not talking about how Arabs need fat cars for their fat > wallets? Only those who are American clients. on Monday 23 July 2007 09:25 am, someone posing as donquijote1954 took a rock and etched into the cave: >> on Friday 20 July 2007 05:07 am, someone posing as Cockamamie Khomeini >> took a rock and etched into the cave: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Only those who are American clients. Ahh, another response from a google groups poster... ...google groups, the web tv of usenet... Thank you for playing. HTH HAND FOAD Next! Signaturewww.perfectreign.com > on Monday 23 July 2007 09:25 am, someone posing as donquijote1954 took a > rock and etched into the cave: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > ...google groups, the web tv of usenet... usenet - midnight basketball for lib-turds. > GM Shifts to Manual Transmissions for Global Warming > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE > http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote And CVT's get even better so why not go with that? SignatureCockamamie Khomeini Leader of the known (Islamic) world. > And CVT's get even better so why not go with that? CVTs are notoriously unreliable. Graham > > And CVT's get even better so why not go with that? > > CVTs are notoriously unreliable. > > Graham In the past, yes. Just as the automatic was back when. Technology does improve you know. Harry K > > > And CVT's get even better so why not go with that? > > > > CVTs are notoriously unreliable. > > In the past, yes. Just as the automatic was back when. Technology > does improve you know. So where's this new reliable CVT transmission to be found then ? Graham On Jul 20, 9:13 am, Eeyore > So where's this new reliable CVT transmission to be found then ? Perhaps CVTs are a solution in search of a problem - they are get talked up every so often (since the 1950s DAF, which I believe was the first production vehicle having them), but checking out their history of CVTs on Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuously_variable_transmission#History, it seems checkered - like 1 step forward, 1 step back. Looks like every major mfr has released some models using CVTs, but they never seem to really take off across the mfr's line. OK, there's a decent list of current production vehicles which use CVTs, but it seems to be heavy on the Hybrids. Wiki's contributors do claim CVTs are popular among smaller engines like for lawn care equipment, tractors, and go-karts... > On Jul 20, 9:13 am, Eeyore > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Wiki's contributors do claim CVTs are popular among smaller engines > like for lawn care equipment, tractors, and go-karts... And my brand new scooter. They have it, right? Still looking for the power and flexibility of a regular geared motorcycle. Vespa makes one though. Now shopping for a base car with stick shift. Probably an AVEO or something like that. >>>> And CVT's get even better so why not go with that? >>> CVTs are notoriously unreliable. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Graham The Nissan Altima uses a CVT as does some Hondas and other makes. SignatureCockamamie Khomeini Leader of the known (Islamic) world. > >>>> And CVT's get even better so why not go with that? > >>> CVTs are notoriously unreliable. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > The Nissan Altima uses a CVT as does some Hondas and other makes. Is the CVT that good? I quote here since I haven't driven one... Have you ever driven a car with a CVT? I have, and they're awful - I felt like I was driving a boat (the way the revs sometimes stay the same as the car gains speed). Notice how Audi, Nissan, Lexus - all program their CVT's to emulate a car with gears - so obviously I'm not the only one who doesn't like the way they behave. Best to get a stick in a small car like the Fit, but if you must have an auto, the Fit has a good 5 speed auto - and if you get the sport model it even has the paddle shifters for when you feel like shifting yourself. Don't wait for that transmission, that's for sure. http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index.php?qid=20070628224217AAUS4Hj > > >>>> And CVT's get even better so why not go with that? > > >>> CVTs are notoriously unreliable. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > - Show quoted text - So drive one long enough to get used to it. I hated autos until I had driven one awhile. To condemn something because _you_ don't like it is pretty juvenile. Harry K >>>>>> And CVT's get even better so why not go with that? >>>>> CVTs are notoriously unreliable. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index.php?qid=20070628224217AAUS4Hj I would only get a CVT is I can control the speed ratio, no automatic sh.t for me. SignatureCockamamie Khomeini Leader of the known (Islamic) world. On Jul 22, 5:29 am, Cockamamie Khomeini <Khome...@camalcock.com> wrote: > >>>>>> And CVT's get even better so why not go with that? > >>>>> CVTs are notoriously unreliable. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Your choice, your opinion. Worth squat to me due to your other posts. Harry K >> > > And CVT's get even better so why not go with that? >> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > So where's this new reliable CVT transmission to be found then ? Squint real hard at a Prius. >>> > > And CVT's get even better so why not go with that? >>> > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Squint real hard at a Prius. Never seen one here in the real world. Not the lala land of huge metro areas where everybody secretly hates each other but never says so. SignatureKeith Schiffner Reality is motorcycles all else is fantasy. If you don't want to give her a hard ride you aren't a real man. Straight or gay she gets your to grinning and acting like a fool kid. >>>>>> And CVT's get even better so why not go with that? >>>>> CVTs are notoriously unreliable. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Never seen one here in the real world. Not the lala land of huge metro areas > where everybody secretly hates each other but never says so. Couple of reasons for that, one is that a Prius is as much or more a political statement than anything else. The other is that the Prius actually gets better gas millage in city traffic than it does on the road... out in the real world. Jeff DeWitt >>>> > > And CVT's get even better so why not go with that? >>>> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Never seen one here in the real world. Not the lala land of huge metro areas >where everybody secretly hates each other but never says so. Dang. At Lockheed, the other day I was parked between two of them. They're getting common here in the SF Bay Area. Al Moore DoD 734 >>>>>>> And CVT's get even better so why not go with that? >>>>>> CVTs are notoriously unreliable. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Dang. At Lockheed, the other day I was parked between two of them. > They're getting common here in the SF Bay Area. I suspect this popularity has ended. The free stickers that allows driving in the carpool lane have all been given out and new Prius' won't be able to drive there without 2 or more passengers. Cheers, Rich > Al Moore > DoD 734 >>>>>>>> And CVT's get even better so why not go with that? >>>>>>> CVTs are notoriously unreliable. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >in the carpool lane have all been given out and new Prius' won't be able >to drive there without 2 or more passengers. Maybe. On the other hand, a recent newspaper report says that Prius is the top selling model this season. at least in this area. Al Moore DoD 734 Alan Moore <alan.s.moore@comcast.net> said in rec.autos.driving: >>> Dang. At Lockheed, the other day I was parked between two of them. >>> They're getting common here in the SF Bay Area. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Maybe. On the other hand, a recent newspaper report says that Prius is >the top selling model this season. at least in this area. In SoCal, they are stacking up on dealers' lots. This is the same car that once had a months-long waiting list and commanded a $5K markup over MSRP; now they dealers are offering (gasp!) DISCOUNTS to move them off the lots. The phasing out of the carpool lane stickers has something to do with it, but also people are waking up to the fact that it takes a LONG time to recoup the added cost of a hybrid in fuel savings, even with the $3.50/gallon gas prices we have here. People are also starting to hear the horror stories from owners who have had to replace batteries costing many thousands of dollars. Perhaps the final nail in the Prius coffin is that they are no longer fashionable. Now the Hollywood celebrities are taking the MTA instead of driving in their hybrids. :) SignatureMFFYCam Videos Galore: http://www.geocities.com/mffycam/ http://slothkills.blip.tv/ >>> So where's this new reliable CVT transmission to be found then ? >> >> Squint real hard at a Prius. > >Never seen one here in the real world. Not the lala land of huge metro areas >where everybody secretly hates each other but never says so. The Prius doesn't exactly have what most would recognize as a CVT. It's a conventional planetary gear set. The variable drive ratio is provided by the electic part of the system, so the system is limited to hybrids. SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. >>>> So where's this new reliable CVT transmission to be found then ? >>> Squint real hard at a Prius. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > is provided by the electic part of the system, so the system is > limited to hybrids. Which is why CVTs have been found in Honda Civics, Audi A4s, Ford Five-Hundred, etc. >>>>> So where's this new reliable CVT transmission to be found then ? >>>> Squint real hard at a Prius. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Which is why CVTs have been found in Honda Civics, Audi A4s, Ford >Five-Hundred, etc. I didn't say CVTs in general couldn't be used in conventional cars. Only that the type of CVT used by the Prius couldn't. SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. > > > > And CVT's get even better so why not go with that? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Graham Ford 500 (rebadged (mostly) Volvo) for one. I haven't heard of any problems with it yet but then it hasn't been out all that long. I test drove one before buying a 2x with standard auto tranny. Driving a CVT would take some getting used to. Drive train noise (what little there was) remained almost constant as speed varied - weird. Harry K So you say Fiat is no good for America, would you say that about your own cars designed for Europe? Well, maybe you should consider GM Opel then... (look at the features of the Corsa, including an ingenious bicycle rack that pops out) http://www.opel.com/flash.html http://www.opel.com/brand_sites/corsacmon/ Stylish, huh? And their advertising is even imaginative! Look at the commercial for the GT. Or maybe is it that America is no good for European cars? Some hope in the future. Someone gives me this update about GM-Opel. I comment below... On Jul 23, 3:00 pm, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Or maybe is it that America is no good for European cars? now you're digressing but into an area that really interests me. Take a look at this article: http://wardsauto.com/ar/saturn_opel_integration/ GM is fighting for it's life and saturn's existence and has (maybe?) finally seen the light. To hell with what the survey groups say, GM's euro offerings are more exciting than ours. I give them credit but saturn is dying on the vine so they better make it fast. Now look at this ford UK site. The fiesta isn't supposed to make it here (in spite of the cult following the old one has). The CMAX and SMAX are cars in a growing niche, but neither are slated to be exported here either. Their focus has been continuously updated and even features a convertible in the lineup. The KA won't come here either. IMO, ford remains completely out of touch and in particular has really ruined the potential of the focus here in how they've mishandled the lineup. Mr. Ford, people are no longer looking for fake-wood sided, fake tonneau top wearing, whitewall tired cars. Step into the 21st century. *** Smart move. I'm looking for a base car and none seems to have good rating and style at the same time. More basic cars are needed. In that segment I'm sure Opel can beat the stupid Japanese cars. > Some hope in the future. Someone gives me this update about GM-Opel. I > comment below... [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > rating and style at the same time. More basic cars are needed. In that > segment I'm sure Opel can beat the stupid Japanese cars. You spoke too soon about Ford. Ford Imports Some Flair Small cars, crossovers will be based on European versions By AMY WILSON | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS AutoWeek | Published 07/23/07, 11:20 am et At the urging of CEO Alan Mulally, Ford Motor Co. is preparing to commonize the small cars and crossovers that it sells in Europe and America. Ford plans to use the next-generation C1 platform to build replacements for the Focus and Escape, say suppliers and industry sources. The vehicles would be engineered largely in Europe, but U.S. versions would be manufactured in North America. The bottom line: Ford's U.S. lineup of small cars and crossovers will be more European. For example, the Escape replacement and a new Lincoln are expected to be second-generation versions of the Kuga, a crossover that goes on sale in Europe next year. And the U.S. market will get a version of the European C-Max crossover. The vehicles have yet to get final approval. Ford spokeswoman Sara Tatchio declined to comment. In the United States, Ford is expected to launch the Focus and C-Max no later than 2011; the Escape replacement and the Lincoln crossover are expected no later than 2012. Mulally has been eager to transplant the company's successful lineup of European cars to the United States. If he carries out his plans, Ford's U.S. and European operations will derive their small cars from the same platform. That would mean an upgrade for Ford's American lineup. The U.S. Focus is based on an older version no longer sold in Europe. Likewise, the current Escape - an aging vehicle first introduced in 2000 - is built on a larger platform loosely derived from the now-discontinued Mazda 626. The new American vehicles probably will be produced in two assembly plants. Candidates include the Wayne, Mich., plant where the current Focus is made; a plant near Kansas City, where the current Escape is made; and a plant in Cuautitlan, Mexico. http://autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070723/FREE/70723008/1024/VEHIC LEREVIEWS > You spoke too soon about Ford. Jesus was a FORD man........thats why he ended up walking everywhere....... :) >> You spoke too soon about Ford. > >Jesus was a FORD man........thats why he ended up walking >everywhere....... :) Yeh, but he never got caught in a flood ! SignatureClick here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/ >>> You spoke too soon about Ford. >> >> Jesus was a FORD man........thats why he ended up walking >> everywhere....... :) > > Yeh, but he never got caught in a flood ! Hey, you that goofy thing that was going around a while back, "What would Jesus drive?". Well he was a carpenter, so he would be driving a pickup... and since the most popular pickup is Ford's F series odd are He would be driving a Ford! =) Jeff DeWitt >>>> You spoke too soon about Ford. >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Jeff DeWitt I heard he was fond of amphibious vehicles ..... SignatureClick here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/ > >>>> You spoke too soon about Ford. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > I heard he was fond of amphibious vehicles ..... Jesus would never ride a... http://blogs.salon.com/0001561/images/2002/11/20/jesussaveongas%20copy.jpg >>>> You spoke too soon about Ford. >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and since the most popular pickup is Ford's F series odd are He would be > driving a Ford! =) The Jesus I used to know drove a Chevrolet because he thought fords were sh.t and dodge was composted sh.t. >Hey, you that goofy thing that was going around a while back, "What >would Jesus drive?". Well he was a carpenter, so he would be driving a >pickup... and since the most popular pickup is Ford's F series odd are >He would be driving a Ford! =) Could be a van instead, and those seem to be weighted to Dodge in my area (not that I've done a scientific survey). Maybe a Unimog, seeing as the roads were pretty bad? SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. >> Hey, you that goofy thing that was going around a while back, "What >> would Jesus drive?". Well he was a carpenter, so he would be driving a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Maybe a Unimog, seeing as the roads were pretty bad? I doubt it would be a Unimog, as much as anyone in those days Jesus was middle class, and Unimogs are EXPENSIVE! Jeff DeWitt > >> Hey, you that goofy thing that was going around a while back, "What > >> would Jesus drive?". Well he was a carpenter, so he would be driving a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I doubt it would be a Unimog, as much as anyone in those days Jesus was > middle class, and Unimogs are EXPENSIVE! Naaah. Older Unimogs can be had for relatively cheap. There was a guy in Boulder who would go out in his to where the rednecks in their monster trucks were playing in the dirt. He'd drive around till he found one stuck in the mud, pull him out, and charge him a hundred bucks. Unimogs rule. http://www.rockymountainmoggers.com/unimogs.html Well, these are cheap: http://www.unimogsales.com/unimogforsale-404.html http://www.mogsrus.com/ http://www.expeditionimports.zoovy.com Oh, I better stop now or I'll find myself buying a mobile shed for my R1100GS. SignatureTimberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml It's easy to say a war is so important your neighbor should go fight it for you. >> >> Hey, you that goofy thing that was going around a while back, "What >> >> would Jesus drive?". Well he was a carpenter, so he would be driving a [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > Oh, I better stop now or I'll find myself buying a mobile shed for my > R1100GS. That's nice. But I prefer the M35A2...the bed is a bit higher though. 8^) I know it MIGHT have problems where a Unimog can go...but I seriously doubt it. 8^) I know it will go where so called experts (who've driven it) say it wont go. A large turbo-diesel that give audio cues like a 2-stroke helps as does a 10 speed transmission (5 speed transmission with a 2 speed transfer case and yes you can split shift it.) Can be had for less than the price of a new car. It's the only cage I love. SignatureKeith Schiffner Reality is motorcycles all else is fantasy. If you don't want to give her a hard ride you aren't a real man. Straight or gay she gets your to grinning and acting like a fool kid. I don't think so. Let's see... Accident Forgiveness After an accident, insurance rates can rise by up to 40%. But with this feature, your rates won't go up just because of an accident, even if it is your fault... Says Allstate. And who pays for it? The ones that have had no accidents at all. We all do. Insurance costs an arm and a leg because of the high rate of accidents and because the guilty parties don't pay for it. And the SUVs who put others at a much higher risk? They don't pay for it either. Actually they pay less. In Germany those factors result in higher rates. But not here. I don't think we are in good hands. SUVs welcome... http://atom.smasher.org/gas-station/?p1=%243.00&p2=%243.25&p3=%243.50&l1=Gas-guz zling+&l2=SUVs&l3=feed+Big+Oil&l4=Global+Warming&l5=and+Terrorism%21 On Jul 24, 4:53 pm, Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote: > > And the SUVs who put others at a much higher risk? They don't pay > > their share either. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > They don't make you buy their insurance, but then you were only > looking for a reason to post your link anyway.- You pay for it all. When you own a frugal, relatively harmless car, you pay more than your should if SUVs paid their share and if accident prone people in particular and accident rates in general were brought into check. I cite a couple of sources... Book "High and Mighty"... 'Among his revelations is that insurance for the (SUV) vehicles is subsidized by everyone else's premiums.' (http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?isbn=1586482033) "Premiums correlate directly to the accident rate. Therefore the most effective way to reduce Massachusetts automobile insurance premiums is to focus on reducing the state's alarmingly high rate of accidents, which is the primary cost driver of our system." And yes, you do pay too for those accident prone soccer moms yapping away on their phone, which is why they propose to... "Prohibiting the use of cell phones while driving" (http://www.masspirg.org/news-releases/auto-insurance/auto-insurance- news/consumer-advocates-urge-legislative-committee-to-lower-auto-rates- by-reducing-highest-in-the-nation-accident- rate#0PK5axRyJHAxpMqUyCkNxg) Here's another flaw with automatic cars: People tend to drive them TOO SLOW. Haven't you seen them sitting down at 40MPH on highways, causing major chaos and confusion around? And how about who travel down the street at 20MPH while talking to their passenger like there's no one around them? Well, all of them can have my banana, I mean my finger. http://cafepress.com/peacebanana On Jul 19, 9:39 am, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote: > GM Shifts to Manual Transmissions for Global Warming > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > WELCOME TO THE JUNGLEhttp://webspawner.com/users/donquijote Jesus must be rolling in his grave... On Jul 27, 11:34 am, Tony Raven <tra...@gotadsl.co.uk> wrote: > Hmmmm, Deaths per million vehicle kms; USA 2.5, UK 2.0 looks pretty much > like driving to me and looks pretty similar to me. YMMV Well, sorry, but you seem to be out of touch with reality... "Sweden and Britain each reported about 35 deaths for every billion kilometers driven in 1970, more than the 30 in the United States. But in 2005 both European countries reported about 6 deaths for every billion kilometers, compared with 9 in the United States." and... "Bella Dinh-Zarr, the North American director of Make Roads Safe, a nonprofit organization based in London, said other countries had stricter laws, better enforcement, more accessible public transportation, greater awareness, public support and more rigorous training and licensing standards." This article is quite enlightening... Safety First? True Once, but U.S. Now Lags in Road Deaths By TANYA MOHN Published: July 22, 2007 DRIVING has never been safer. Cars, which once had just one air bag, can now have six or more, and there are crumple zones to protect occupants in a crash and electronic stability control to avoid crashes in the first place. There are run-flat tires and antilock brakes. The rate of highway fatalities has plummeted since 1970, when the United States led the world in road safety. Still, despite its head start and that cocoon of technology, the nation has steadily slipped behind other countries, becoming comparatively one of the most dangerous places to drive in the industrialized world. The United States ranks 42nd of the 48 countries measured in the number of fatalities per capita, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development and the International Transport Forum. Australia, Britain, France, Germany and Japan all did significantly better. And in what many safety experts consider a more precise measure, fatalities per distance driven, the United States was No. 1 in 1970 with the lowest death rate among industrialized countries reporting data. It now ranks 11th, with some countries reporting rates that are 25 percent lower. "Here we are, probably the richest country in the world," said Barbara L. Harsha, executive director of the Governors Highway Safety Association, which represents state highway safety offices. "Why are other countries doing a better job than we are?" Safety experts said the reasons were many. One, they said, was inadequate driver training. Some countries require that teenagers have 100 hours behind the wheel before they receive a license, compared to about 6 in the United States. But expert after expert said the real problem was one of culture. With personal freedom being a cornerstone of the United States, many states are loath to pass legislation that curtails them, even when it comes to road safety. So while the governments of other countries can easily pass laws to make driving safer, like a national ban on hand-held cellphone use, those laws here are left up to the states to impose, and that is often not so easy. New Hampshire, for example, is the only state with no seat belt law for adults, and in May its state Senate rejected a bill that would have mandated the use of belts. "The citizens of New Hampshire don't like to be told by anyone else what to do," said State Senator Robert E. Clegg Jr. Fred Wegman, managing director of the National Institute for Road Safety Research in the Netherlands, said attitudes were different in Europe. There, he said, safety is not just about the individual, but is the responsibility of society as a whole. "European countries fundamentally pay more political attention to road safety," he said. more... http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/22/automobiles/22SAFETY.html |
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