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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / General Car Topics / July 2007GM Shifts to Manual Transmissions for Global Warming
GM Shifts to Manual Transmissions for Global Warming Responding to growing concerns over global warming, General Motors (GM) announced today that it would make all of its vehicles with standard transmissions, starting in 2009. Manual transmissions generally get better fuel mileage than automatics. GM CEO Rick Wagoner described the initiative at a press conference at the company headquarters in Detroit: "We've been coddling our lazy fellow Americans for too long. It's time everyone started using their left foot. This is what Jesus would do." Wagoner said that manual transmissions typically get 2-3 mpg better mileage than the same vehicle equipped with an automatic, and that in some cases the difference can be as much as 5 mpg. GM plans to focus on high-efficiency manuals to minimize the company's output of greenhouse gases. Manuals are also generally considered more fun to drive and less expensive to manufacture and maintain. The GM announcement received a mixed reaction. The late Jerry Falwell rose from his grave to insist that Jesus would have driven a large van with an automatic, because he would need to carry so many of his followers. Other religious leaders hailed the effort to reduce global warming. On the environmental side, NRDC President Frances Beineke applauded the move and encouraged other auto manufacturers to follow suit. http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s8i21068 Well, it's all A SPOOF! You knew it, right? You know that, although making a lot of sense, nothing will make the HUNGRY CORPORATIONS get into a diet. Well, nothing but THE REVOLUTION... http://atom.smasher.org/streetparty/?l1=Coming+Soon%3A&l2=the&l3=Banana+Revoluti on%21&l4= WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote > GM CEO Rick Wagoner described the initiative at a press conference at > the company headquarters in Detroit: "We've been coddling our lazy > fellow Americans for too long. It's time everyone started using their > left foot. This is what Jesus would do." LOL ! It's what most of the world already does. Graham >> GM CEO Rick Wagoner described the initiative at a press conference at >> the company headquarters in Detroit: "We've been coddling our lazy [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Graham Most of the world also bathes once a week or less too, but that doesn't mean a more advanced society like ours needs to do the same thing. Jeff DeWitt > >> GM CEO Rick Wagoner described the initiative at a press conference at > >> the company headquarters in Detroit: "We've been coddling our lazy [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Most of the world also bathes once a week or less too, but that doesn't > mean a more advanced society like ours needs to do the same thing. A more advanced society burns three times as much fuel as Germany and Japan, and still gets no fun out of it? Funny. >>>> GM CEO Rick Wagoner described the initiative at a press conference at >>>> the company headquarters in Detroit: "We've been coddling our lazy [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > A more advanced society burns three times as much fuel as Germany and > Japan, and still gets no fun out of it? Funny. The US is also a Hell of a lot bigger than Germany or Japan... and most folks either don't like stick shifts or don't even know how to use them. And the fact of that matter is that modern automatics are pretty damn good and the gas mileage difference is pretty minor. Jeff DeWitt > The US is also a Hell of a lot bigger than Germany or Japan... and most > folks either don't like stick shifts or don't even know how to use them. > > And the fact of that matter is that modern automatics are pretty damn > good and the gas mileage difference is pretty minor. Actually, a modern computer-controlled automatic is probably better than most stick drivers in terms of fuel economy. However, automatics are more complex and a lot more expensive to fix, and do not last as long as manuals due to the complexity. Ted >> The US is also a Hell of a lot bigger than Germany or Japan... and most >> folks either don't like stick shifts or don't even know how to use [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > However, automatics are more complex and a lot more expensive to > fix, and do not last as long as manuals due to the complexity. I don't know how the stats overall go, but based upon my life experiences there's nothing wrong with an automatic. I've owned a dozen car with autos, one auto getting 160k miles on it while two others got more than 90k miles. None ever required repair and none had an oil/filter change. Dodge Caravans however, were known to have transmission failures, at least back in the 90s. Robert This is utter B.S. because the move to computerized automatics was to better control the engine and shifting, since many people stay in loer gears too long or bluntly don't know haw to drive a standard. As for repairs, I had a friend that priced a manual rebuild, and it was around $1400 at the time, approaximately the same as for an automatic. Roy >> The US is also a Hell of a lot bigger than Germany or Japan... and most >> folks either don't like stick shifts or don't even know how to use them. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Ted > This is utter B.S. because the move to computerized automatics was to better > control the engine and shifting, since many people stay in loer gears too [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> >> Ted The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to worry about shifting at the right time, starting off on hills, down shifting for coming down steep hills, lugging the engine or riding the clutch. And it's hard to steer, shift, hold a cup of coffee and a cell phone all at the same time! But then there are a few oddballs like me who pretty much only drive sticks... my last car with an automatic was also my first car, a Studebaker Hawk. My current car is a Jeep Cherokee and the clutch was still working perfectly when the throwout bearing went out at 300,000 miles. Jeff DeWitt "Jeff DeWitt" <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com> wrote in message > The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to > worry about shifting at the right time, starting off on hills, down > shifting for coming down steep hills, lugging the engine or riding the > clutch. And it's hard to steer, shift, hold a cup of coffee and a cell > phone all at the same time! You got that right. And you have to watch for that light on the dashboard that tells you when to shift. What government agency came up with that dumb idea? Probably 10% of the people driving today should never have been given a license in the first place. Of the rest, a huge number would never pass the test if they had to drive a standard. Hmmm, that should be a requirement. > "Jeff DeWitt" <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com> wrote in message >> The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > license in the first place. Of the rest, a huge number would never pass the > test if they had to drive a standard. Hmmm, that should be a requirement. I suspect it wasn't the government that directly came up with that light, if you pay attention to the light and shift when it says to then your mileage goes up a bit, and if they do that during the EPA test the rated mileage improves. My Jeep doesn't have that light anymore, one time when I was changing some bulbs I took that one out. Jeff DeWitt > "Jeff DeWitt" <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com> wrote in message >> The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > license in the first place. Of the rest, a huge number would never pass the > test if they had to drive a standard. Hmmm, that should be a requirement. Hi... Agreed, but add to that have a car equipped with; and demonstrate the ability to use a hand crank to start it. And be strong and supple enough to change a tire without the use of a jack. Take care. Ken > > "Jeff DeWitt" <JeffDeW...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message > >> The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > And be strong and supple enough to change a tire without the use of > a jack. Maybe the latter is a requirement in Bangla Desh, but the rules of the road as applied in Germany and other civilized countries make more sense... General laws and enforcement The minimum age to drive in Germany is 18. Traffic drives on the right and passes on the left (not the other way around, as some Americans inexplicably think.) Seatbelts must be worn by all passengers. Children under 12 years old or shorter than 1.5 meters may not sit in the front seat unless they are in an approved child safety seat. However, you may not use a child safety seat in the front seat if there is an active airbag. You must leave your doors unlocked while driving to facilitate rescue in an accident. Drivers must have third-party liability insurance. Vehicles must carry a warning triangle (Warndreieck) and a super-duper highway first aid kit (Pkw-Verbandkasten) in which I defy you to find any band-aids. Germany does not require a fire extinguisher (Feuerl?scher), but you may want one anyway. You must place the warning triangle 100 meters behind your vehicle if it is disabled (200 meters on the Autobahn), although I have yet to see anyone actually put it that far back. It is illegal to drive with your parking lights only; you must use your headlights at night and during inclement weather. Motorcyclists must ride with helmets and headlights on at all times. The police are allowed to collect fines (Verwarnungsgeld) for most traffic offenses on the spot. If you don't have enough cash on hand, your vehicle may be impounded (at additional cost to you, of course.) You need not fear when paying spot fines-- the German police are very professional and corruption is very rare, and you will be given a receipt for the payment. Beware of enforcement cameras. Germany probably uses such cameras more than anyone else (except possibly Britain). Automatic cameras are stationed to catch speeders, red-light violators, and tailgaters. Sometimes an obscure sign will warn you of the existence of such a camera, but it's usually too late by then. You'll sometimes spot temporary cameras setup along the side of the Autobahn or on an overpass watching for tailgaters or speeders. Tickets are mailed to the registered owner of the vehicle within a few weeks. http://gettingaroundgermany.home.att.net/regeln.htm#gen >>> "Jeff DeWitt" <JeffDeW...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message >>>> The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > http://gettingaroundgermany.home.att.net/regeln.htm#gen Most of that makes a lot of sense except for the bit about leaving our doors unlocked. Keeping your doors locked makes the vehicle stronger in the event of an accident and the doors are less likely to come open. Jeff DeWitt > >http://gettingaroundgermany.home.att.net/regeln.htm#gen > > Most of that makes a lot of sense except for the bit about leaving our > doors unlocked. Keeping your doors locked makes the vehicle stronger in > the event of an accident and the doors are less likely to come open. I think our public transportation experts deserve a trip to Germany. Hopefully one way. THE AUTOBAHN The Autobahn is the pinnacle of the German driving experience, perhaps the ultimate in driving altogether. Virtually all of the world's serious drivers have heard of it and longed to take their shot at conquering it. Teutonic cars are known for their precise engineering and craftsmanship; the Autobahn completes the driving equation. Some people are disappointed the first time they drive on the Autobahn. They come with visions of a twenty-lane superhighway where cars are barely a blur as they whiz by. In reality, the Autobahn looks like a typical freeway, and despite rumors to the contrary, not everyone is hurtling along at the speed of sound. The stories of speed anarchy are only half correct-- many sections of Autobahn do in fact have speed limits. Still, the Autobahn offers the transcendent driving experience. The roads are superbly designed, built and maintained, even now in the east where the German government had to undo 40 years of Communist "maintenance". Amenities are numerous, and drivers are well-trained and cooperative. It's literally life in the fast lane on the Autobahn (don't tell me you didn't see that coming!) (a lot of stuff here --for Americans) For example... Passing on the right is strictly prohibited! Slower vehicles must move to the right to allow faster traffic to pass, and drivers should stay in the right lane except to pass. When passing, you must do so as quickly as possible, and it's in your best interest to do so lest you become a hood ornament on that Porsche that was just a speck in your mirror a second ago and now is close enough for you to see the look of distain on the driver's face. You are, however, allowed to pass on the right in heavy traffic when vehicles have started queuing, but only at a slow speed. http://gettingaroundgermany.home.att.net/autobahn.htm >>> http://gettingaroundgermany.home.att.net/regeln.htm#gen >> Most of that makes a lot of sense except for the bit about leaving our [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > http://gettingaroundgermany.home.att.net/autobahn.htm I've got no problem at all with banning passing on the right as long as people get out of the way of faster traffic. If a highway has no speed limit then you don't have the problem of left lane bandits self righteously parking themselves in the left lane at exactly the speed limit while traffic flows past them on the right. Jeff DeWitt > >>>http://gettingaroundgermany.home.att.net/regeln.htm#gen > >> Most of that makes a lot of sense except for the bit about leaving our [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > righteously parking themselves in the left lane at exactly the speed > limit while traffic flows past them on the right. Of course, it's all a package. Once you fix one thing, you can't leave the other stuff to the Law of the Jungle. VIGILANTES GOT NO PLACE ON OUR ROADS. > Most of that makes a lot of sense except for the bit about leaving our > doors unlocked. Keeping your doors locked makes the vehicle stronger in > the event of an accident and the doors are less likely to come open. Marginally so Jeff. If the collision is minor enough, then perhaps the locks may help. But, in that kind of collision you're not so likely to be ejected anyway. In more major collisions, the lock is immaterial. When cars tear in half, or doors blow open because the unibody distorts, the locks do nothing.  Signature-Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net >> Most of that makes a lot of sense except for the bit about leaving our >> doors unlocked. Keeping your doors locked makes the vehicle stronger in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cars tear in half, or doors blow open because the unibody distorts, the > locks do nothing. True enough, but if the car is torn in half the problem of rescue personnel being able to open the doors becomes moot. Keeping the doors locked also makes you a bit safer from people with evil intent... it's a lot harder to carjack someone if your doors are locked. Jeff DeWitt <Snip> > Probably 10% of the people driving today should never have been given a > license in the first place. That I can probably agree with. > Of the rest, a huge number would never pass the test if they had to drive > a standard. Hmmm, that should be a requirement. No offence Ed, but that's like making it a requirement to know how to hook up your new HD-TV/DVD before you buy one (which most people don't). It's rather pointless. If someone wants to drive a manual transmission car, sure, they need to know what they are doing. For those who like there automatic's, why bother them? Let them have what they want, the same as you can. "80 Knight" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message >> Of the rest, a huge number would never pass the test if they had to drive >> a standard. Hmmm, that should be a requirement. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > automatic's, why bother them? Let them have what they want, the same as > you can. It was said in jest, but it would weed out a lot of un-coordinated drivers. The driving test in most states is rather easy and not representative of real life. Sure, it takes some time to develop some skills, but turning loose a 16 year old with a 3000 pound hunk of iron traveling at 70 mph is dangerous. Of course, when I was 16 that was not a problem. > "80 Knight" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >> Of the rest, a huge number would never pass the test if they had to drive [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > loose a 16 year old with a 3000 pound hunk of iron traveling at 70 mph is > dangerous. Of course, when I was 16 that was not a problem. Also factor in that there's a minimum score on the driving test (70% in MO) to be achieved ONCE to be licensed for life othr than the eye test and the fees. The driving rules change over time, but I bet 98% of the drvers never pick up the latest driver manual from the state. 16-year-old drivers in my earlier years were quite level-headed and better-trained than that age group now, since drivers ed has been eliminated in a lot of schools. The catch: in my time of originally getting my license, the nationwide SL was 55. I was out of college by the time of the Fed. increase to 65 and near 40 by the time of reverting to state control. > "80 Knight" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message >>> Of the rest, a huge number would never pass the test if they had to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > traveling at 70 mph is dangerous. Of course, when I was 16 that was not a > problem. I think that all depends on the 16 year old. I know 16 year olds who should have the full right to drive. I also know much older adults who shouldn't be allowed within 50 feet of a vehicle. Here in Ontario, we have a "Graduating Licensing" program. At age 16 you start off with a G1, which allows you to drive with someone with a full license only (with other restrictions as well, such as no more then 2(?) other teenagers with you). A G2 means you can drive alone, but there are time-of-day is a factors. A full G means you can drive where you want, when you want, and with whom you want. Does this system work? I can't really say. "80 Knight" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message > I think that all depends on the 16 year old. I know 16 year olds who > should have the full right to drive. I also know much older adults who [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > full G means you can drive where you want, when you want, and with whom > you want. Does this system work? I can't really say. Of course there are exceptions. The graduated license is a good idea IMO, but it has to be enforced by both police and parents. In NY a couple of weeks ago, 5 girls were killed in a head-on. The driver had a junior license and was not allowed to have passengers. She was also text messaging on her cell phone at the time. > "80 Knight" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > in a head-on. The driver had a junior license and was not allowed to have > passengers. She was also text messaging on her cell phone at the time. Text messaging has to be 20 times worse then actually talking on the phone while driving. Though I know text messaging has been out for several years, it seems to have gotten much bigger recently, and I think people need to understand the consequences of not paying attention to the road. Should the Police ticket anyone seen driving with a cell phone in there hands? I don't know, but I think people need to be aware, and most aren't. >> "80 Knight" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message >>>> Of the rest, a huge number would never pass the test if they had to [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > have the full right to drive. I also know much older adults who shouldn't be > allowed within 50 feet of a vehicle. You'd not even let them be a passenger or travel in a bus or taxi? For shame. :-) Cheers, Rich > Here in Ontario, we have a "Graduating > Licensing" program. At age 16 you start off with a G1, which allows you to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > can drive where you want, when you want, and with whom you want. Does this > system work? I can't really say. >allowed within 50 feet of a vehicle. Here in Ontario, we have a "Graduating >Licensing" program. At age 16 you start off with a G1, which allows you to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >can drive where you want, when you want, and with whom you want. Does this >system work? I can't really say. The purpose of the system is to limit insurance companies' exposure to risk while still providing them with their full premium for having a teen driver in the household. It works great for that. SignatureThere's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one. On Jul 23, 10:16 pm, russo...@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote: > In article <TMWdnZkx8YBWlT7bnZ2dnUVZ_j-dn...@giganews.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > risk while still providing them with their full premium for having a > teen driver in the household. It works great for that. Allstate ad says 6,000 teens never come back. So I guess 18 years would a much safer age than 16. > On Jul 23, 10:16 pm, russo...@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. > Russotto) wrote: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Allstate ad says 6,000 teens never come back. So I guess 18 years > would a much safer age than 16. All you are going to get is older unskilled drivers. Start them off at 13 or 14 off road or on tracks, then by the time they are old enough for a licence, they know how to drive! It worked for me and my 14 year old is competent enough to drive around in paddocks.......... BrianNZ <brian@itnz.co.nz> said in rec.autos.driving: >All you are going to get is older unskilled drivers. Start them off at >13 or 14 off road or on tracks, then by the time they are old enough for >a licence, they know how to drive! Now there's an idea I haven't heard before. Give the kiddies weekly practice at the go-kart track until they are old enough for a permit. At the very least they will know how to avoid collisions. :) SignatureMFFYCam Videos Galore: http://www.geocities.com/mffycam/ http://slothkills.blip.tv/ On Jul 24, 6:18 am, Scott en Aztl?n <scottenazt...@yahoo.com> wrote: > BrianNZ <br...@itnz.co.nz> said in rec.autos.driving: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > MFFYCam Videos Galore:http://www.geocities.com/mffycam/http://slothkills.blip.tv/ A lot more than just that. Handling, momentum, judging distance/ speed, etc. Drawback is that they will know how to get max performance out of machine and may try it on the road...oh, that is what teens tend to do anyhow without any of that early practice. Harry K > The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to > worry about shifting at the right time, starting off on hills, down > shifting for coming down steep hills, lugging the engine or riding the > clutch. Yes these are shocking challenges for citizens of the richest nation on earth. Elsewhere on the planet it seems not to be seen as a problem. Graham >> The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to >> worry about shifting at the right time, starting off on hills, down [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Graham They just don't know any better. Jeff DeWitt >>> The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to >>> worry about shifting at the right time, starting off on hills, down [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > They just don't know any better. Could have fooled me...Korean pickups are more practical than the american ones. Any fool that has trouble using a standard transmission is an uncoordinated syphilitic monkey. I've the coordination of a B movie zombie and I can handle a standard in almost any situation...haven't had the opportunity to drive arctic ice or live lava flows. I agree with a couple others here, people who can't drive a standard are pussies. SignatureKeith Schiffner Reality is motorcycles all else is fantasy. If you don't want to give her a hard ride you aren't a real man. Straight or gay she gets your to grinning and acting like a fool kid. >>>> The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to >>>> worry about shifting at the right time, starting off on hills, down [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I agree with a couple others here, people who can't drive a standard are > pussies. I don't really disagree, but I feel better knowing that the ass-twat in front of me juggling cellphone and coffee mug isn't also contending with a clutch and h-shifter. (I also agree with the consensus; it won't sell here, for the simple reason that freshly applied mascara is vitally important to the masses, for reasons we don't fully understand.) > >>>> The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to > >>>> worry about shifting at the right time, starting off on hills, down [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > for the simple reason that freshly applied mascara is vitally important to > the masses, for reasons we don't fully understand.)- Or maybe we should ban cell phones (and coffee) like they do in Germany (that northern European country)... "Use of mobile phones is prohibited while your vehicle is in operation. The only time you are permitted to use a mobile phone is if you are parked and the engine is turned-off. You may use a hands- free mobile phone when driving if it does not impede your hearing (i.e. one earphone only)." >>>>>> The average driver is better off with an automatic. The don't have to >>>>>> worry about shifting at the right time, starting off on hills, down [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > free mobile phone when driving if it does not impede your hearing > (i.e. one earphone only)." No, NOT COFFEE!!! ANYTHING BUT THAT! However it is a really bad idea to use a regular cell phone while driving... requiring someone to be parked with the engine turned off is a bit extreme but you should at least be stopped. Now banning coffee is something else again, thems fightin words! Jeff DeWitt > > "Use of mobile phones is prohibited while your vehicle is in > > operation. The only time you are permitted to use a mobile phone is [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Now banning coffee is something else again, thems fightin words! You can try one of those hydration systems, right? ;) I was just watching "Littleman" and one soccer mom changes the pampers while driving. It' a comedy but perhaps not too far from real life. >>> "Use of mobile phones is prohibited while your vehicle is in >>> operation. The only time you are permitted to use a mobile phone is [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I was just watching "Littleman" and one soccer mom changes the pampers > while driving. It' a comedy but perhaps not too far from real life. A caffeine IV would be more like it! <G> Jeff DeWitt > Could have fooled me...Korean pickups are more practical than the american > ones. Any fool that has trouble using a standard transmission is an [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I agree with a couple others here, people who can't drive a standard are > pussies. Does it make you feel more like a man to be able to drive a manual? Sounds like someone has a complex. >> Could have fooled me...Korean pickups are more practical than the american >> ones. Any fool that has trouble using a standard transmission is an [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Does it make you feel more like a man to be able to drive a manual? Sounds > like someone has a complex. When it comes right down to it this is the early 21st century and modern automatics are pretty damn good, and with 4 or 5 speeds and lock up torque converters are about as economical as a stick. They are also a lot better when dealing with towing or extreme conditions such as snow. Modern cars have cruise control, keep your brakes from locking up, your wheels from spinning with traction control, keep you cool when it's hot, warm when it's cold, and some cars will even recognize you and set the seats, climate control and audio systems the way you like them. In this world stick shifts are a pretty small deal, and the clutch mechanisms add complexity. I like sticks myself, it's about all I've ever had, but if I keep working where I am my next daily driver is going to have an automatic, a stick shift in stop and go traffic is a PAIN. Jeff DeWitt Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com> said in rec.autos.driving: >In this world stick shifts are a pretty small deal, and the clutch >mechanisms add complexity. And require less maintenance. And are less trouble-prone. SignatureMFFYCam Videos Galore: http://www.geocities.com/mffycam/ http://slothkills.blip.tv/ > Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com> said in rec.autos.driving: > >>In this world stick shifts are a pretty small deal, and the clutch >>mechanisms add complexity. > > And require less maintenance. And are less trouble-prone. So what? Computers are complex too. Do you want to go back to a manual typewriter and adding machine? The only reason that manual transmission is so popular in some countries is that automatics are not as good power wise in smaller cars with small engines. They also have small narrow roads and need small cars. Choice is nice. One transmission over the other does not make you more or less of a man or more or less of an energy hog. The thread was started as a joke and has evolved into a silly name calling match. I think we need to get a life. "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> said in rec.autos.driving: >>>In this world stick shifts are a pretty small deal, and the clutch >>>mechanisms add complexity. >> >> And require less maintenance. And are less trouble-prone. > >So what? So I can understand why some people prefer them. >Computers are complex too. Do you want to go back to a manual >typewriter and adding machine? Even a Cray isn't as complex as your argument. >The only reason that manual transmission is so popular in some countries is >that automatics are not as good power wise in smaller cars with small [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >joke and has evolved into a silly name calling match. I think we need to >get a life. You first. You're the only one who is foaming at the mouth here. SignatureMFFYCam Videos Galore: http://www.geocities.com/mffycam/ http://slothkills.blip.tv/ > "Scott en Aztl?n" <scottenazt...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:63l5a35770fme6imglcv8bpeo601jt87st@4ax.com... > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > that automatics are not as good power wise in smaller cars with small > engines. They also have small narrow roads and need small cars. Fine, let's turn to smaller cars. There's no need for bigger car other that to satisfy your ego, right? > Choice is nice. One transmission over the other does not make you more or > less of a man or more or less of an energy hog. The thread was started as a > joke and has evolved into a silly name calling match. I think we need to > get a life. Choice is nice. All those small, efficient European cars should be allowed here. But they aren't. Too many regulations keep 'em out. >>> Could have fooled me...Korean pickups are more practical than the >>> american ones. Any fool that has trouble using a standard transmission [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > where I am my next daily driver is going to have an automatic, a stick > shift in stop and go traffic is a PAIN. That is the only point I am trying to make. Manual or automatic is a preference. People shouldn't be rated as "good or bad, smart or not-so" based on which transmission they prefer. > > I like sticks myself, it's about all I've ever had, but if I keep working > > where I am my next daily driver is going to have an automatic, a stick [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > preference. People shouldn't be rated as "good or bad, smart or not-so" > based on which transmission they prefer.- Do you also support that cell phone use should be a preference? "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message > Do you also support that cell phone use should be a preference? There are times it can be used safely, there are times it should not be turned on. Good drivers know the difference, but it has no bearing on the type of tramsission you shoose to use. > "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > turned on. Good drivers know the difference, but it has no bearing on the > type of tramsission you shoose to use. AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking leads to cancer. >> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking > leads to cancer. Wow, again. You need to put your tin-foil hat back on and leave mommy's basement more often. > > AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking > > leads to cancer. > > Wow, again. You need to put your tin-foil hat back on and leave mommy's > basement more often. Ok, show me that stick shift drivers are as reckless as automatic ones. >> > AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking >> > leads to cancer. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Ok, show me that stick shift drivers are as reckless as automatic > ones. Seriously, get a grasp on reality. >>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Wow, again. You need to put your tin-foil hat back on and leave mommy's > basement more often. I can loan you my foil hat, it keeps the aliens away. I used to get abducted and gang probed all the time, but with mt new, specially designed foil hat that as a Global warming guru/UFOligist engineered. But wait... if you order NOW you get not one but two foil hats, yes the one with the ex-caliber corona vein and the new dress up design that looks like a Derby... great for those special occasions. SignatureAn ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out http://OutSourcedNews.com The problem with the global warming theory, is that a theory is like a bowl of ice-cream, it only takes a little dab of bullshit to ruin the whole thing. "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message > AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking > leads to cancer. Amazing. Just amazing. I've come up with tall tales at times, but I don't think I can top that one just yet. > "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Amazing. Just amazing. I've come up with tall tales at times, but I don't > think I can top that one just yet. I can "Eating yellow snow is good for you" >> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>> AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > "Eating yellow snow is good for you" I don't know if it's true or not, but I have seen accidents caused by talking on the cell phone and you can't do this when driving a manual transmission. And it's true that automatic drivers are shiftless, ain't it? :-) Cheers, Rich >>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>> AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > talking on the cell phone and you can't do this when driving a manual > transmission. !!?? What makes you think you can't talk on a cellphone in a manual car? It takes no more effort than changing radio stations....... > And it's true that automatic drivers are shiftless, ain't it? :-) > > Cheers, > > Rich Automatics shift.....otherwise you'd have a long day sitting in 'PARK' :) "Rich" <someone@someplace.not> wrote in message > I don't know if it's true or not, but I have seen accidents caused by > talking on the cell phone and you can't do this when driving a manual > transmission. Sorry to hear about your limitations. >>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>> AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > talking on the cell phone and you can't do this when driving a manual > transmission. May I ask why not? >>>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > May I ask why not? Need one hand for the steering wheel, one for the gearshift, no hands left for the phone. I imagine if you had one of those handsfree devices you could work around this little problem, but I don't have one. Cheers, Rich >>>>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>> AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Rich Either cradle the phone on your neck when changing, steer with your knees or say 'hang on a sec.' and change gear with the phone in your hand......... > >>>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >>>>> AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > devices you could work around this little problem, but I don't have > one. Soccer moms wouldn't be driving weren't if it weren't for automatics. They wouldn't attend the soccer games either. "Rich" <someone@someplace.not> wrote in message > Need one hand for the steering wheel, one for the gearshift, no > hands left for the phone. I imagine if you had one of those handsfree > devices you could work around this little problem, but I don't have > one. > > Cheers, Thanks for the laugh. Want me to give you a call from my cell phone while driving a standard and drinking a cup of coffee? It may not be sensible, but there are people doing just that, every day. > "Rich" <someone@someplace.not> wrote in message >> Need one hand for the steering wheel, one for the gearshift, no [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Thanks for the laugh. Want me to give you a call from my cell phone while > driving a standard and drinking a cup of coffee? Errr, I think I'll pass. Driving safely with three kids in the car is enough for me most of the time. If I need to make a call I'll give the phone to my wife. > It may not be sensible, but there are people doing just that, every day. I also don't eat in the car. Maybe I'm weird. Cheers, Rich > "Rich" <some...@someplace.not> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > It may not be sensible, but there are people doing just that, every day. And once moving, just how often does one change gears. Stop lights is about it. Harry K >> "Rich" <some...@someplace.not> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > And once moving, just how often does one change gears. Stop lights is > about it. You've never driven in 580 during rush hour, it's stop and go. And there's no telling when or where you'll have to stop and go. Maybe in Kansas you can leave it in gear and just drive, but here it's unlikely. Cheers, Rich > Harry K >>>>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>> AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > devices you could work around this little problem, but I don't have > one. Come on Rich, be serious here. If someone is a bad driver, it's the driver's fault, not the transmission. Like others stated, it is still conceivable to drive a manual, talk on the phone and steer at the same time, and you know what? That sounds a hell of a lot more dangerous then talking on the phone, steering and not having to worry about changing gears. > >>>>> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >>>>>> AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > what? That sounds a hell of a lot more dangerous then talking on the phone, > steering and not having to worry about changing gears.- I don't blame him. If we had more than one life, I wouldn't mind, but we don't. I do ride the scooter in traffic though. It's risk assessment. Perhaps we should send our bicycle planners to Germany... Bicycles In many places in Germany, bicycles are not only a form of recreation or sport, but also an essential method of transportation. It's common to see adults in business suits riding their bike through the city, perhaps with groceries in the basket behind their seat. Cyclists are generally permitted to ride on the street, even if no bike lane is marked. http://www.dw-world.de/popups/popup_printcontent/0,,2481918,00.html If you had to pay $7 a gallon for gas as well as several thousands of dollars a year in taxes on you car, to help pay for "free" medical care, you would likely ride a bike as well. LOL mike > I don't blame him. If we had more than one life, I wouldn't mind, but > we don't. I do ride the scooter in traffic though. It's risk [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > http://www.dw-world.de/popups/popup_printcontent/0,,2481918,00.html > > Need one hand for the steering wheel, one for the gearshift, no > > hands left for the phone. I imagine if you had one of those handsfree [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > what? That sounds a hell of a lot more dangerous then talking on the phone, > steering and not having to worry about changing gears.- OK, I dare you to show to me that those engaged on the phone were driving stick shift in any significant number. And that's as dangerous as DUIs... DRIVERS ON CELL PHONES ARE AS BAD AS DRUNKS UTAH PSYCHOLOGISTS WARN AGAINST CELL PHONE USE WHILE DRIVING HTTP://WWW.UNEWS.UTAH.EDU/P/?R=062206-1 Complete University of Utah Research Paper (http://www.hfes.org/Web/ PubPages/celldrunk.pdf) June 29, 2006 -- Three years after the preliminary results first were presented at a scientific meeting and drew wide attention, University of Utah psychologists have published a study showing that motorists who talk on handheld or hands-free cellular phones are as impaired as drunken drivers. "We found that people are as impaired when they drive and talk on a cell phone as they are when they drive intoxicated at the legal blood- alcohol limit" of 0.08 percent, which is the minimum level that defines illegal drunken driving in most U.S. states, says study co- author Frank Drews, an assistant professor of psychology. "If legislators really want to address driver distraction, then they should consider outlawing cell phone use while driving." Psychology Professor David Strayer, the study's lead author, adds: "Just like you put yourself and other people at risk when you drive drunk, you put yourself and others at risk when you use a cell phone and drive. The level of impairment is very similar." "Clearly the safest course of action is to not use a cell phone while driving," concludes the study by Strayer, Drews and Dennis Crouch, a research associate professor of pharmacology and toxicology. The study was set for publication June 29 in the summer 2006 issue of Human Factors: The Journal of the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society. http://talk.ocregister.com/archive/index.php/t-20618.html Perhaps we can work out an equation here: AUTOMATIC CAR=CELL PHONE=DUI > >> "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >>> AUTOMATIC LEADS TO PHONE USE AND RECKLESS DRIVING, just like smoking [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > And it's true that automatic drivers are shiftless, ain't it? :-) Call it "profiling," but Mrs. Hen is a soccer mom that drives an oversized AUTOMATIC SUV while yapping away on the phone. And if you are in a vehicle smaller than hers you are deep s... SUV vs. Scooter "Dedicated to all those injured, mutilated or killed by the Hen and her SUV." I've always wondered what would happen in an accident between SUV an Scooter. It's not so simple. The SUV being so high could totally miss the scooter. Well, I guess this SUV wasn't high enough... Preventing Motorcycle, Scooter Accidents a Matter of Awareness By Ryan Taylor - 17 Jul 2007 In March a BYU student, driving a scooter died of injuries suffered in an accident with an SUV. Adam Cox was riding in the outside lane of University Parkway just behind a car that was driving in the inside lane when an SUV going the opposite direction, turned left and hit Cox, said Capt. Michael Harroun, of the BYU Police Department. Just like Cox's case, most motorcyclists are not at fault when accidents happened, Harroun said. "But they will get the worst of it," he said. Even though Cox was wearing a helmet, he suffered severe head trauma and died after being taken to Utah Valley Regional Medical Center. http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/64865 And remember, you SUV drivers, your distraction can spoil someone's life. Well, I don't mean to offend you, just try not to talk so much on the phone, and if you do, do like the Hen... http://www.thehenshouse.com/index.html DON QUIXOTES OF THE ENVIRONMENT http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote6 "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message > Call it "profiling," but Mrs. Hen is a soccer mom that drives an > oversized AUTOMATIC SUV while yapping away on the phone. And if you > are in a vehicle smaller than hers you are deep s... No, that is not profiling. It is drawing dumb conclusions. If her SUV was blue, you can say it happened because it was blue. No one should drive blue SUV's because they are accident prone. It could have happened even if it was stick shift. Sorry, but since you have little common sense, nothing logical will matter to you. > "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > stick shift. Sorry, but since you have little common sense, nothing logical > will matter to you. He may be a blithering idiot, BUT. His assessment of the mentality of mini-van drivers in general and their attitude to EVERYONE else on the road. That is in my experience a demonstrable FACT. That you've not been assaulted by those c.nts and their cuckolded husbands weaving around the road like they aren't the criminals they are. Then again I've not a shred of respect or care about cagers...that is people who don't ride motorcycles. A proven superior breed of mankind. SignatureKeith Schiffner Reality is motorcycles all else is fantasy. If you don't want to give her a hard ride you aren't a real man. Straight or gay she gets your to grinning and acting like a fool kid. >Then again I've not a shred of respect or care about cagers...that is people who >don't ride motorcycles. A proven superior breed of mankind. Every once in a while, though, some motorcycle rider proves that there is more to superiority than just being a rider. Today, for example, I'm at the head of the queue at a light in the middle of three lanes in my direction. Two left and middle lanes are left turn only and after the turn there is an on-ramp to the right. Behind the cage to my left is the idiot rider. The light goes green and the cage and I proceed, pretty much side-by-side. Halfway though the turn, with no signal or other indication, sh.t-for-brains decides to split between the cage and me yo head for the on-ramp. I had to brake hard to avoid a collision. I don't know whether he heard me express my opinion of his technique. Signature======================================================================== Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make | two, one and one make one." mrkesti at hotmail dot com | - The Who, Bargain "Michael R. Kesti" <michaelkesti@nospam.net> wrote in message > Every once in a while, though, some motorcycle rider proves that there > is more to superiority than just being a rider. Today, for example, I'm [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > on-ramp. I had to brake hard to avoid a collision. I don't know whether > he heard me express my opinion of his technique. If you have a problem with that, don't ever try driving in Rome, or any large city in Italy for that matter. Things like that happen at every light, every day. That yellow line down the center is just a suggestion, not a rule. >>Then again I've not a shred of respect or care about cagers...that is people >>who [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > on-ramp. I had to brake hard to avoid a collision. I don't know whether > he heard me express my opinion of his technique. Hmm, know what. He was ignoring a STUPID law. As such I'd say he demonstrated his superiority to the cagers. <shrug> Except for not using his turn signals he did nothing wrong. There is law and justice...the two rarely meet in the courts. SignatureKeith Schiffner Reality is motorcycles all else is fantasy. If you don't want to give her a hard ride you aren't a real man. Straight or gay she gets your to grinning and acting like a fool kid. >>>Then again I've not a shred of respect or care about cagers...that is people who >>>don't ride motorcycles. A proven superior breed of mankind. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >his superiority to the cagers. <shrug> Except for not using his turn signals he >did nothing wrong. It's not a great surprise to learn that you find no fault with one rider cutting off another. > There is law and justice...the two rarely meet in the courts. Well, sure, but these have little to do with boneheaded stunts in traffic. And yes, Edwin, I've witnessed traffic in Italy. It's about as ridiculous as Schiffner's bullshit. Signature======================================================================== Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make | two, one and one make one." mrkesti at hotmail dot com | - The Who, Bargain on Monday 23 July 2007 04:22 pm, someone posing as Edwin Pawlowski took a rock and etched into the cave: > "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Amazing. Just amazing. I've come up with tall tales at times, but I > don't think I can top that one just yet. And I have no idea what that has to do with global warming! Every time I accidently drive over a Honda Civic or a motorcycle in my Avalanche while talking on the phone and writing a message on my blackberry, I am very sorry about it. Well, usually, anyway. After all, I often get the fenders a bit scratched up. Signaturewww.perfectreign.com >> > I like sticks myself, it's about all I've ever had, but if I keep >> > working [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Do you also support that cell phone use should be a preference? What on earth does that have to do with the preference of transmissions? You really need to think before you post. > >> Could have fooled me...Korean pickups are more practical than the american > >> ones. Any fool that has trouble using a standard transmission is an [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > warm when it's cold, and some cars will even recognize you and set the > seats, climate control and audio systems the way you like them. But they won't prevent the driver from wandering mentally. Actually, the aid it. > In this world stick shifts are a pretty small deal, and the clutch > mechanisms add complexity. > > I like sticks myself, it's about all I've ever had, but if I keep > working where I am my next daily driver is going to have an automatic, a > stick shift in stop and go traffic is a PAIN. Driving in those conditions is a pain no matter what. Try Public Transportation. >>>> Could have fooled me...Korean pickups are more practical than the american >>>> ones. Any fool that has trouble using a standard transmission is an [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > But they won't prevent the driver from wandering mentally. Actually, > the aid it. Well yes and no. The audio system can be a big help in keeping a driver awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate I've been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. >> In this world stick shifts are a pretty small deal, and the clutch >> mechanisms add complexity. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Driving in those conditions is a pain no matter what. Try Public > Transportation. Not an option. Depending on traffic it takes me 30-45 minuites to get to or from work. If I were to take the bus I'd still have to drive a few miles to get to a bus stop, then change busses twice to get to work and three times to get home. My daily commute time would increase from about 90 minutes to over 5 hours. It just ain't gonna happen. Jeff DeWitt > awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate I've > been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. The problem is that the problem-drivers are unaware that *they* *are* the problem. >> awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate I've >> been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. > > The problem is that the problem-drivers are unaware that *they* *are* > the problem. So what's your point? Are you saying I'm a problem driver because I like listening to books on long drives? Jeff DeWitt >>> awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate I've >>> been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > So what's your point? Are you saying I'm a problem driver because I like > listening to books on long drives? Does that need much explanining? Inalert and inattentive drivers are problems. >>>> awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate >>>> I've been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Does that need much explanining? Inalert and inattentive drivers are > problems. Yep, and that's why audiobooks and things like talk radio are can be really helpful on long trips. Jeff DeWitt >>>>> awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate I've >>>>> been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Yep, and that's why audiobooks and things like talk radio are can be > really helpful on long trips. I didn't really hold out much hope my two simple sentences would break through the bony resolve and denial. It's worth repeating, though: problem-drivers just don't know that they are the problem. > >>>>> awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate I've > >>>>> been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Either that or they don't care (or both). They do provide plenty of examples for MFFY comments and Darwin temptations. >>>>>> awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate >>>>>> I've been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > through the bony resolve and denial. It's worth repeating, though: > problem-drivers just don't know that they are the problem. Cute, this is like asking "Have you stopped beating your wife?". Jeff DeWitt >>>>>>> awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring Interstate >>>>>>> I've been on where a good audiobook has helped keep me alert. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Cute, this is like asking "Have you stopped beating your wife?". Do you really think so, Jeff? My complaint is with unalert and inattentive drivers. "A good audiobook has helped keep me alert," you said. Am I taking you too literally? Nope. The entire concept is foreign to my mental patterns while driving. The fact of the matter is, very few of us can account for every minute we spent on the road. Almost everyone out there just zips along in their stupor. So just shrug your shoulders, make note of the possibility if you wish, and then move on. What do you care what I think? After 30+ years of dawning awareness and a few moments of clarity, do you think I still hold hopes of changing the world overnight? Phhht. >>>>>>>> awake. I can't tell you how many miles of long boring >>>>>>>> Interstate I've been on where a good audiobook has helped keep [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > years of dawning awareness and a few moments of clarity, do you think I > still hold hopes of changing the world overnight? Phhht. When you are burning concrete with the miles streaming by no you can't account for every minute. It is part of the way we are built to go into automatic mode when we are repeating the same repetitious actions hour after hour. Anything that helps keep your mind busy helps keep you alert, plus I LIKE listening to books, and generally listen to books that I'd never read. On a long road trip I make a habit of stopping once an hour or so to stretch my legs and I'll usually get something to drink such as a Coke or cup of coffee. If I really start feeling tired I'll pull into a rest stop and sleep for a while. I LOVE doing what I call road thrashes, that is driving really long distances without any planned stops, such as last summer when I drove from Raleigh NC to St. Louis, and that's just what I did. Jeff DeWitt <snip> > I LOVE doing what I call road thrashes, > that is driving really long distances without any planned stops, such as > last summer when I drove from Raleigh NC to St. Louis, and that's just > what I did. > > Jeff DeWitt A motorcyclist trapped in a car drivers body!......A transvehicle? LOVE is a such a strong word. :) > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > LOVE is a such a strong word. :) It fits, what I'd REALLY like to do is get in my Studebaker pickup (after considerable work of course!) along with my big goofy dog and drive north... ALL the way north to Alaska. Motorcycles are cool, but b |
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