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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / General Car Topics / November 2007Connecting an Alternator to horse drawn buggy
I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring a delco with built in regulator is easy. There are two problems. 1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden spoke wheel hub. I can sort of see a means to attach a belt pulley, but the belt would have to connect to a shaft or it would be outside too far. 2. Alternators will not charge until they reach a specific RPM. I doubt the buggy wheels would reach that. This means a gear assembly would be needed to increase the rpm. I also heard that some tractor alternators charge at a lower RPM, so I have to check into that. Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has anyone ever done anything like this? I'm having fun with this project.... Alvin > Anyone have any suggestions? Well I immediatly thought of solar panels but then had an idea about using a small wind turbine. It would work night & day and put out about 2-6 Amps @12v. > How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? If there was enough clearance on the inside of the wheel between it & the body, fix full pully wheels around the diameter and use a long belt. That would give you the gearing you need without much loss in power or slippage. I'll not to draw it in ASCII art HTH  SignatureTerminal_Crazy Mitch - 1995 Z28 LT1 M6 terminal_crazy@sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk Lancashire England http://www.sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk/terminal_crazy/ >I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on > their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Alvin They have LED lights now and they use very little current, all auto stores have them. >I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on >their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Alvin Attack the problem from the other end. Install LED lights. They will draw about 90% less electricity. If you want to get really fancy, you could find a spot on the buggy for a modest solar panel to keep the battery charged. I replaced all the navigation lights on my sailboat and the difference in power consuption is astonishing. I also no longer have to be winched up the mast to replace burnt out incandescent bulbs. The LED's will outlast me and the boat. Alvin, > I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on > their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries > which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish > neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one > of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the > wheels. I don't know much about the Amish, but I thought the idea was to avoid modern technology? Couldn't they use lanterns as was done before electrical lights were available? Otherwise, I'd start with a switch to more efficient lighting so the battery lasts longer. I don't know if they still make them, but once upon a time you could get lights for bicycles that were powered by a little generator that ran on the top of the bike tire. Seems like it would be easy to adapt to a buggy. Otherwise, maybe you could install a small gas powered generator? A hybrid buggy? :) But it seems like it's getting away from the Amish ideals to me? Anthony According to HerHusband <unknown@unknown.com>: > I don't know much about the Amish, but I thought the idea was to avoid > modern technology? Couldn't they use lanterns as was done before electrical > lights were available? It's not so much an avoidance of "modern technology", it's more of an avoidance of depending on outside resources. Electricity isn't as much of an issue as being connected to the grid is. Tho, it depends on "which" Amish you're talking about. There are different levels of interpretation, and different levels of willingness to adapt to the modern world. Eg: they won't have a car. But most won't turn down a ride in one if it's going somewhere they need to go, and some aren't shy about asking for a ride ;-) Eg: many Amish in the US came from Canada (south west Ontario) when Canada imposed refrigeration requirements on dairy production. When the corresponding US states imposed refrigeration, some Amish moved either to states that didn't require it, or to Mexico. Others adapted and stayed where they are. Most Amish, for example, refuse to have a telephone. But as an example of "modern compromise", some will have an outdoor phone for calls pertaining to their dairy operation. My wife and her sister bed-and-breakfasted with Pennsylvania Amish farm families, and recounted the amusing incident where the Amish family's teenage daughter had to stand outside in the rain at the "dairy phone" to talk to one of her friends. I thought of bicycle generators (car-size alternators or generators will sometimes present too much load to the available horse power ;-) too. However, I don't think they'd be terribly effective long-term solutions. They'd always be diddling with them. Something simple and mostly maintenance free is better. Perhaps LED lights and a smallish solar panel. Should allow them to use smaller/cheaper batteries too. SignatureChris Lewis, Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them. > According to HerHusband <unkn...@unknown.com>: > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill > It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them. Sounds like a good community to have a way station with a few solar panels and a few group owned batteries on charge, swap out your discharged battery for a charged one along the way. Wouldn't need to be any bigger than an outhouse. According to beecrofter <beecrofter@yahoo.com>: > > Perhaps LED lights and a smallish solar panel. Should allow them > > to use smaller/cheaper batteries too. > Sounds like a good community to have a way station with a few solar > panels and a few group owned batteries on charge, swap out your > discharged battery for a charged one along the way. Wouldn't need to > be any bigger than an outhouse. Amish communitees are very well spread out. They're not towns, they're farming regions with a mixture of Amish and non-Amish farmers. In many cases the non-Amish outnumber the Amish by a substantial margin. In order to be useful, "way stations" would have to be impractically numerous ;-) SignatureChris Lewis, Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them. I found it amusing when we visited amish country in Indiana. We went to their modern type general store that has gas lights and sunpipes and skylights. So far so good. Then, all around the perimeter of the store are modern refrigerator cases. What runs them??? A/C power made from inverters off a bank of about 100 car batteries being charged by the thermoking reefer unit out on the semi trailer. I goes out to look. Upon this thermoking unit are 6, Yes count them SIX, high output General motors style alternators to charge this bank of batteries. A huge 500 gallon diesel tank stands near by to feed this fuel monster. Now how is that being disconnected from society??? It's rediculous to burn all that diesel when all he'd have to do it hook up to the electricty. s > According to HerHusband <unknown@unknown.com>: > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > Perhaps LED lights and a smallish solar panel. Should allow them > to use smaller/cheaper batteries too. According to Steve Barker <ichasetrains@not.yahoo.com>: > I found it amusing when we visited amish country in Indiana. We went to > their modern type general store that has gas lights and sunpipes and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > disconnected from society??? It's rediculous to burn all that diesel when > all he'd have to do it hook up to the electricty. Nobody said it has to be entirely logical. Or at least to us. Most religions have a number of things in them that seem more than a trifle inconsistent or counter-productive or varies in surprising ways from one place to another. Or at least to outsiders who don't understand what the point of the whole thing is. This will demystify it considerably: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish#Modern_technology There are many things to admire in their way of life. We could all do with a little less advertising for example. I just don't like some of the other facets... SignatureChris Lewis, Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them. >According to HerHusband <unknown@unknown.com>: > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >Perhaps LED lights and a smallish solar panel. Should allow them >to use smaller/cheaper batteries too. You are pretty much correct about the more modern Amish. My neighbors do have an outdoor phone in a small shed and are connected to an answering service. Some of them have small electric generators and will power up a standard trouble light when they shoe their horses after dark. Their local sawmill is a huge diesel powered engine with shafts and pulleys all over the place to power different devices. They can drive a tractor, but not own one. They can not drive a car, but can ride in them, and often do. I give them rides quite often. I charge their batteries too. They are nice people. I find their "rules" a little strange at times, but I accept them for what they are. For example, they can not be hooked to the "grid" (electric service), but they can use most anything electric if it connects to a generator. My neighbor even has an electric razor and shaves in the barn when his generator is running, which is used to run an air compressor connected to a 500gallon LP tank. That air is used to pull water from their community well. They have indoor plumbing, but only cold water. They have to heat it on an outdoor wood burner, or on their kitchen wood stove. They use gasoline or LP for their generator or compressor, but can not have an LP cook stove or furnace. They can smoke cigars, but not cigarettes. You get the picture...... Like I said, they are nice people, but do things in strange ways. Yet, who am I to say. At least they dont have an electric bill, and the whole community shares the phone bill, and that is a good thing. Therefore, an alternator or solar panels would be acceptable in THIS community, but not others. I enjoy their company and they love to come over and watch movies with me. Of course a few of their younger kids have found ways to hide portable DVD players which they power off their 12V battery until dad finds out why the battery is dead...... Alvin > Alvin, > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Anthony I donno. Why don't you go to Amish.com and ask them. http://www.amish.com/ Jim SignatureWhy are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together? >I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on > their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries > of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the > wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring > Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit > from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has > anyone ever done anything like this? Ineresting! What comes t my mind is the old bicycle lights. You know, the ones that run off the spokes hitting the wheels? They generaly stop when you stop, but might that be somesort of lead? I've seen ones for sale that charge a small accessory battery so it runs for a bit when stopped. I'e also seen solar powered bicycle lights, charge during the day stuff. I didnt have much luck with the one I got, but then I only had a west/south facing window to charge it in ad seldom got 'direct sun'. They don't give alot of light, but several of them might do the trick as well as fit the lifestye? > I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on > their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Alvin Hi, How about solar panel? >> I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on >> their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Hi, > How about solar panel? And LED lights which draws very small amount of current. >Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit >from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has >anyone ever done anything like this? Use lanterns. If you're going to live in the bronze age, then electric lighting isn't available. >I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on > their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > I'm having fun with this project.... Remember those bicycle lights that have a generator that rubs on the tire to light the light? They might be AC output, so you'd need some diodes to charge batteries, but they could be a good starting point. Add a "tire" to the generator if the buggy wheels are not rubber. Obviously, the output current is limited, so you either need small bulbs or multiple generators. Bob >>I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on >> their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >Bob It looks like LED lights and solar panels WIN in this thread, and I can surely relate to both as a good alternative. Solar panels are cheap to run too, once they are paid for. I wish they made some bicycle generators that were a higher output. I think those common ones are just 1.5 volts (or less). Too bad they dont make a 12V model (or do they?). Anyone know of any sources on the web for higher output 12v bicycle type generators? What is a good source for both solar panels and bright headlight type LED lights? One thing mentioned were lanterns. I ma not sure just why they dont use them on their buggies. Maybe they do not meet the requirements of the law. or maybe it's the fire hazzard, or just the cost of kerosene? I will have to ask. I do see them sold on websites that sell parts for horsedrawn buggies and wagons, but it seems they are more decoration that useful..... Thanks for all the advice. Alvin >>>I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on >>> their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >type generators? What is a good source for both solar panels and >bright headlight type LED lights? LED lights and solar panels are used extensively on sailboats. You could try the big chains such as West Marine and Defender.com, or save a lot of money by trying Ebay or just doing some google searches. > I wish they made some > bicycle generators that were a higher output. I think those common > ones are just 1.5 volts (or less). Too bad they dont make a 12V model > (or do they?). It's been many years since I checked, but it seems to me the generator on the tire thing I had was more like 6V. Bob >> I wish they made some >> bicycle generators that were a higher output. I think those common [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > It's been many years since I checked, but it seems to me the generator on the > tire thing I had was more like 6V. I just dug one out of a box. With a DVM connected to it, no load, sweeping my arm across the ground (3-6 ft/sec?), I got 3 VDC. So 6 VDC at speed might be right. I would expect that since it produced DC, you could wire more than one in series for higher voltage. For that matter, get a good (lower speed) DC motor, put a small "tire" on the shaft, and see how that works. I would expect that the higher the voltage motor it is, the higher voltage you'd get out. A low speed motor would probably produce more voltage at buggy speeds than a 18000 rpm motor. This would cost way less than solar panels. Bob >I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on >their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Alvin One page PDF file for Amish Buggy LED lights - lumileds.com. http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/AmishBuggy0903F.PDF if they're going to bend the rules enough to put an alternator on the buggy, THEY'd be better off buying some suitably sized solar panels to charge those batteries during the day when not in use. I'm afraid by the time you geared the alternator up with pulleys or gears, you'd have quite the drag on that wheel. A typical GM self exciting alternator needs to spin about 2000 rpm to get anything useful done. steve >I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on > their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Alvin It seems like LED and a solarpanel is a great solution,and in these days when environmental problems is discussed worldwide,it would definitely be a positive solution for that too. No emissions and also it will not need much maintenance so it would be a great solution. Solarpanels has also been improved and still are,next generation solarpanels will be much more efficient then todays. What I've heard they work really fine. Regards >I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on > their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Alvin I would be looking to use LED style lights instead and a bicycle generator with maybe a solar panel too. I also think that using automotive stuff would weight too much and have too much drag. Most modern alternators create way too much current for just lights anyway. Even an older 40A alternator wouldn't be as good as say going to Nashbar's or Performance's website and using bicycle stuff instead. Maybe if these Amish had electrical rear defoggers that they were using then you might be able to justify something like an automotive alternator. To the person who said something about why are they even using electricity in the first place, they aren't always necessarily against it. It's more of a self sufficiency type of thing (meaning that in some Amish communities it's OK to use electricity for certain things as long as you generate it yourself). >I would be looking to use LED style lights instead and a bicycle >generator with maybe a solar panel too. Check out this buggy with amber flashers on front and rear. * Buggy battery safety is important :) * Ohio State University Fact Sheet Buggy Lighting and Marking Recommendations http://ohioline.osu.edu/aex-fact/0596_4.html The following fact sheets are available from Ohio State University Extension: Driving Safely in Amish Country, AEX 596 Buying the Right Battery for Your Buggy, AEX 596.1 Buggy Battery Safety, AEX 596.2 Buggy Highway Safety Tips for You and Your Family, AEX 596.3 Buggy Lighting and Marking Recommendations, AEX 596.4 Pedestrian Safety in Amish Country,AEX 596.5 Bicycle Safety in Amish Country,AEX 596.6 Boosting Visibility of Ag Equipment, AEX 598 Additional Marking of Horse Drawn Vehicles = Additional Safety, AEX 598.1 http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~agsafety/ash/programs/am_pubs.html >I would be looking to use LED style lights instead and a bicycle >generator with maybe a solar panel too. Check out this buggy with amber flashers on front and rear. * Buggy battery safety is important :) * Ohio State University Fact Sheet Buggy Lighting and Marking Recommendations http://ohioline.osu.edu/aex-fact/0596_4.html The following fact sheets are available from Ohio State University Extension: Driving Safely in Amish Country, AEX 596 Buying the Right Battery for Your Buggy, AEX 596.1 Buggy Battery Safety, AEX 596.2 Buggy Highway Safety Tips for You and Your Family, AEX 596.3 Buggy Lighting and Marking Recommendations, AEX 596.4 Pedestrian Safety in Amish Country,AEX 596.5 Bicycle Safety in Amish Country,AEX 596.6 Boosting Visibility of Ag Equipment, AEX 598 Additional Marking of Horse Drawn Vehicles = Additional Safety, AEX 598.1 http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~agsafety/ash/programs/am_pubs.html >I would be looking to use LED style lights instead and a bicycle >generator with maybe a solar panel too. Check out this buggy with amber flashers on front and rear. * Buggy battery safety is important :) * Ohio State University Fact Sheet Buggy Lighting and Marking Recommendations http://ohioline.osu.edu/aex-fact/0596_4.html The following fact sheets are available from Ohio State University Extension: Driving Safely in Amish Country, AEX 596 Buying the Right Battery for Your Buggy, AEX 596.1 Buggy Battery Safety, AEX 596.2 Buggy Highway Safety Tips for You and Your Family, AEX 596.3 Buggy Lighting and Marking Recommendations, AEX 596.4 Pedestrian Safety in Amish Country,AEX 596.5 Bicycle Safety in Amish Country,AEX 596.6 Boosting Visibility of Ag Equipment, AEX 598 Additional Marking of Horse Drawn Vehicles = Additional Safety, AEX 598.1 http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~agsafety/ash/programs/am_pubs.html Actually the solar panels are probably only a reasonable idea if they park the buggy outside, I would think. According to <scott21230@gmail.com>: > Actually the solar panels are probably only a reasonable idea if they > park the buggy outside, I would think. Given how long their trips take, and mostly during the day at that where lighting isn't necessary, it's probably not an issue. Someone would have to do some simple calculations with specs on candidate components to figure out how much daylight they'd need. Can't be too impractical, otherwise, solar lights wouldn't work - usually capable of 8 hours or so using only a square inch or two of collector and a single AA battery. Scale it up to a 4x4 or larger collector, and reasonably well chosen LED lights, I'm sure it'd work quite well. Except after long period of truly abysmal weather. SignatureChris Lewis, Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them. I repair office machines. a guy kept calling and missing me. but said I have no phone. found out later he was amish looking for parts for a old hand crank ditto machine, that I used to service. sadly he quit calling, he was ill in hospital I think he died. >According to <scott21230@gmail.com>: >> Actually the solar panels are probably only a reasonable idea if they [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >sure it'd work quite well. Except after long period of truly >abysmal weather. Actually, their Sunday church services begin around sunrise and they generally do not come home until 9 or 10 pm. It's more than "church". They have a meal or two, the youngers ones play games later in the day, the older ones socialize and discuss their business and horses. They can not do any work on Sundays except to care for their horses and other animals. They work most of the time the other 6 days of the week, so Sunday is their day to relax. My point is that they often come home from their Sunday worship after dark, particularly when the days are shorter. Some travel 10 to 15 miles each way. Those horses do work hard at times. Check out this buggy with amber flashers on front and rear. * Buggy battery safety is important :) * Ohio State University Fact Sheet Buggy Lighting and Marking Recommendations http://ohioline.osu.edu/aex-fact/0596_4.html The following fact sheets are available from Ohio State University Extension: Driving Safely in Amish Country, AEX 596 Buying the Right Battery for Your Buggy, AEX 596.1 Buggy Battery Safety, AEX 596.2 Buggy Highway Safety Tips for You and Your Family, AEX 596.3 Buggy Lighting and Marking Recommendations, AEX 596.4 Pedestrian Safety in Amish Country,AEX 596.5 Bicycle Safety in Amish Country,AEX 596.6 Boosting Visibility of Ag Equipment, AEX 598 Additional Marking of Horse Drawn Vehicles = Additional Safety, AEX 598.1 http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~agsafety/ash/programs/am_pubs.html > I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on > their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Alvin The Amish are fascinating, and there is an excellent website about the "Plain People". http://www.800padutch.com/amish.shtml Jeff DeWitt >> I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on >> their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >Jeff DeWitt Yeah, but don't overlook the really negative things about them. It's not at all pretty and quaint. It's a cult. Women and children are "property" and the accepted way to communicate with them is to beat them. Nice. >>>I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on >>>their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > pretty and quaint. It's a cult. Women and children are "property" and the > accepted way to communicate with them is to beat them. Nice. You could say the same thing about Islam... Jeff DeWitt According to Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com>: > > Yeah, but don't overlook the really negative things about them. It's > not at all > > pretty and quaint. It's a cult. Women and children are "property" and the > > accepted way to communicate with them is to beat them. Nice. > You could say the same thing about Islam... You could say the same thing about individuals/subgroups of just about every religion, and extending it to describe the whole religion is as wrong as it is with the Amish. There are one or two subgroups of the Amish that could potentially be properly described as cults, and others that operate completely differently. As there are (rather more than one or two) of christianity, islam or the jewish faith. Jonestown/Crusades/Inquistion != christianity Wahabi != islam A religious jew that we knew well went on a pilgrimage to Israel, and after he came back remarked on the extreme variation of religious observance between individual congregations of the same group. Eg: fine points of dietary laws in kosher households - like, one microwave or two? One dishwasher or two? He put it rather strongly - "Rabbi personality cults" (based around individual and differing interpretation/concessions of practicality of the same laws). SignatureChris Lewis, Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them. >>> I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on >>> their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >pretty and quaint. It's a cult. Women and children are "property" and the >accepted way to communicate with them is to beat them. Nice. Like ALL religions, there are good and bad. There has been a big thing on the news in the last year about one that beat and had sex with relatives and the whole thing seems to give a bad image of all of them. It's one bad apple...... I have never seen any beatings around here. They have better marriages than most non-Amish from waht I see. On the other hand, when there is a divorce, the woman can never marry again, (unless the man dies). It's not all quaint or pretty. They work hard and work most of the time. Yet, they seem to be happier than most people and dont have all the problems and debt that many others have. Their concepts of sharing the phone bill, the well, etc saves money, and when they need a barn, all of of them work together, which makes for closer families. There's a good and bad side to everything and to all people. Whether it's a cult or not, I really can not say. I think most if not all religions are a cult in some manner. Even those so well accepted in our world, such as the Catholics are cult-like. I am not here to judge anyone's beliefs. If people are happy, then that's what matters. Some of them do leave the Amish too. Either way, they are an interesting people and I enjoy living near them. They are usually the first to help me when I have a problem and that says something about them. >I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on > their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Alvin How about getting them saved? Then they would be free to drive a car instead of being in stupid bondage. Many Amish own and drive vehicles. Driving a buggy instead of a car will not get them to heaven and driving a car will not send them to hell. >>I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on >>their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Driving a buggy instead of a car will not get them to heaven and driving a > car will not send them to hell. Maybe they are right and you are wrong. Jeff DeWitt >> How about getting them saved? Then they would be free to drive a car >> instead of being in stupid bondage. Many Amish own and drive vehicles. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Jeff DeWitt Everytime I have to spend a few hours under the hood or under my car doing something like exhaust work, I think "they are right"..... :) I'd much rather care for my horses than be laying in the dirt with bloody knuckles, under a car cussing at some rusted bolt on a piece of steel, that is pissing me off...... And when I have to pay for the car loan, or spend $100 for a tire, I also think they are right....... On the other hand, when I see them doing laundry in a large tub, over a wood fire, outdoors on a cold winter day, I'll stick to my automatic washer inside the house, even if it does need a costly parts from time to time..... As far as getting them "saved", I'll leave that to the fire dept. or paramedics when they have an accident. I still do not understand the religious aspect of that word, because every religions has their own interpretation...... >>>How about getting them saved? Then they would be free to drive a car >>>instead of being in stupid bondage. Many Amish own and drive vehicles. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > religious aspect of that word, because every religions has their own > interpretation...... Yes, there is a lot to like and respect about their lifestyle, but I'm a BIG fan of modern technology, and things like central heat, AC, refrigators, microwave ovens and of course computers and the internet (of course I also push a mouse for a living!). Jeff DeWitt > alvinamo...@notmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Jeff DeWitt This from a man whose pickup truck was made by a company better known for one- and two-horsepower "vehicles" :) nate (still a little bitter at JP about that one, although it sounds like you've had your share of "issues" with it!) >>alvinamo...@notmail.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > (still a little bitter at JP about that one, although it sounds like > you've had your share of "issues" with it!) Hey, I like old stuff too! Cool gadgets are cool gadgest, no matter what century they are from. Jeff DeWitt >>>How about getting them saved? Then they would be free to drive a car >>>instead of being in stupid bondage. Many Amish own and drive vehicles. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > religious aspect of that word, because every religions has their own > interpretation...... Oh, and I can fix my car when it breaks (or pay someone to do it), and as long as I'm willing to do that I can keep driving it, but I can't fix a horse... plus horses take a lot more care (then there is the pollution thing...) Jeff DeWitt |
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