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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / General Car Topics / April 2008Driving With Two Brakes - Part Two
Thanks to everyone for the excellent advice that's been given regarding our situation. We're definitely going to get the car fixed or else just park it. But now there's a slight situation. I talked to the shop that gave the quote, and it was $130, not $110, which is fine. Only thing is, I asked him what would be replaced. He said the wheel cylinders. I asked about the brake shoes, and he said that they just have a little brake fluid on them, so he would just clean them off. I asked, "What if they're soaked in brake fluid?" And he said that he would still just clean them off. As long as they're not falling apart, he said, they should be fine. Does that sound right to you? Leave the brake shoes and just clean them off? I took the car in this morning to another place to get a second opinion. He was going to give me a free brake inspection for the rear brakes. But then, when he got to it, he said that the rear drum had bearings, and he would have to repack the bearings, which would be a half hour of labor, and would have to charge me for that. So he didn't take the drum off. But, he said that he saw brake fluid leaking out of the drum which, he said, indicated that brake fluid was definitely in the drum, and, therefore, on the shoes. (Since that was all I needed to know, I didn't need for him to take the drum off.) So, if there's so much brake fluid in the drum that it's leaking out the other side, there must be a fair amount of fluid on the shoes. Would just cleaning the shoes be enough? Thanks! >Thanks to everyone for the excellent advice that's been given regarding our >situation. We're definitely going to get the car fixed or else just park it. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Does that sound right to you? Leave the brake shoes and just clean them off? Sounds iffy to me. Cleaning them off will get the fluid on the surface. As your son drives the car, the shoes will wear down and if the fluid has permeated into the shoes, he'll be back -almost- to square one with the brakes (just that the cylinders should not be leaking). >I took the car in this morning to another place to get a second opinion. He >was going to give me a free brake inspection for the rear brakes. But then, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Thanks! I'm not sure if cleaning would be enogh, but brakes are the one system you should never take chances with. I'd play it safe and go ahead and replace the shoes and possiblly the drums also if they have been soaked in the fluid. -- -- "Foley, we should have known it was you...." --From the movie Beverly Hills Cop. > Thanks to everyone for the excellent advice that's been given regarding our > situation. We're definitely going to get the car fixed or else just park it. > But now there's a slight situation. Don't know what advice was given - This looks like a new thread > I talked to the shop that gave the quote, and it was $130, not $110, which > is fine. Only thing is, I asked him what would be replaced. He said the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Does that sound right to you? Leave the brake shoes and just clean them off? If you pay for new shoes I would think they would be happy to replace. I would guess that it will be OK because the guy probably doesn't want you to crash into the tree across the road as you are leaving the shop. Brake fluid can be cleaned off pads. Or he may just be getting you in the door and he intends to tell you you will need new pads no matter what they look like once he has the car in the shop Get an additional quote for the pads before you start. If he stutters when you ask that go elsewhere. -jim > I took the car in this morning to another place to get a second opinion. He > was going to give me a free brake inspection for the rear brakes. But then, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Thanks! ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- >So, if there's so much brake fluid in the drum that it's leaking out the >other side, there must be a fair amount of fluid on the shoes. Would just >cleaning the shoes be enough? > >Thanks! I would replace the shoes. I don't know what kind of car you are referring to, but brake shoes are usually pretty cheap and the labor shouldn't change much since they have to pull the drum and most of the shoe hardware to replace the leaking wheel cylinders anyway. Steve B. >>So, if there's so much brake fluid in the drum that it's leaking out the >>other side, there must be a fair amount of fluid on the shoes. Would just [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Steve B. Sorry -- the other thread is named the same as this one, but without the "Part Two." The car is a 91 Volkswagon Golf. >>>So, if there's so much brake fluid in the drum that it's leaking out the >>>other side, there must be a fair amount of fluid on the shoes. Would just [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Sorry -- the other thread is named the same as this one, but without the >"Part Two." The car is a 91 Volkswagon Golf. Autozone has those for $14. I'm sure a mechanic will want $30 for them but I would want new ones. Maybe you could buy a set and have them replace them when they do the other work. Steve B. >>>>So, if there's so much brake fluid in the drum that it's leaking out the >>>>other side, there must be a fair amount of fluid on the shoes. Would [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > them but I would want new ones. Maybe you could buy a set and have > them replace them when they do the other work. Just checked the AutoZone website, and they have them, but they're not stocked at my local store or any nearby store (can buy them from the web site and have them shipped in two days). Guess they don't stock old VW parts. My ex is planning on taking the car in on Monday for the repair, so can't really order them from the website. Do you know of any other stores that might stock these older parts? The other option would be to just have the place put the shoes on and pay their price, which shouldn't be too much. Also, since, if they replace the shoes instead of cleaning the old ones they save on the cost of a can of cleaner as well as the labor in cleaning the old shoes, one would think they wouldn't charge too much for labor for putting on the shoes, especially since they'll be in there anyway. >> So, if there's so much brake fluid in the drum that it's leaking out the >> other side, there must be a fair amount of fluid on the shoes. Would just [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Steve B. Neil, This is good advice, as long as they are taking the thing apart anyway replace the shoes. If a little brake fluid gets on a shoe it can be cleaned off and it's not a problem, but if they are soaked, and it sounds like they would be, they should be replaced. I doubt those shoes are that rare, if Autozone doesn't have them Advance, Pep Boys or NAPA should, besides that's the mechanics concern. Jeff DeWitt > I doubt those shoes are that rare, if Autozone doesn't have them Advance, > Pep Boys or NAPA should, besides that's the mechanics concern. Thanks. The reason I was looking to pick them up was to give them to the mechanic and avoid markup on the part. Not a big deal, though. >>I doubt those shoes are that rare, if Autozone doesn't have them Advance, >>Pep Boys or NAPA should, besides that's the mechanics concern. > > Thanks. The reason I was looking to pick them up was to give them to the > mechanic and avoid markup on the part. Not a big deal, though. Good idea, but most mechanics don't want to have customers bring in parts. Partly because they can't mark them up but also they are guaranteeing their work and if you bring a part they may not be sure of how good it is. > Good idea, but most mechanics don't want to have customers bring in > parts. Partly because they can't mark them up but also they are > guaranteeing their work and if you bring a part they may not be sure of > how good it is. Nobody takes their own eggs to Denny's and asks for a discount..... >> Good idea, but most mechanics don't want to have customers bring in >> parts. Partly because they can't mark them up but also they are >> guaranteeing their work and if you bring a part they may not be sure of >> how good it is. > > Nobody takes their own eggs to Denny's and asks for a discount..... Denny's doesn't charge for parts separate from labor. > Thanks to everyone for the excellent advice that's been given regarding our > situation. We're definitely going to get the car fixed or else just park it. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Thanks! No ! Do the job properly and replace the shoes, you can never get all the brake fluid out of the friction material. If any brake fluid remains in the friction material it can cause all sorts of odd problems down the road. >Would just > cleaning the shoes be enough? > > Thanks! No. Neither shop sounds reputable at all. If there is *any* fluid on the shoes, replace them. >>Would just >> cleaning the shoes be enough? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Neither shop sounds reputable at all. > If there is *any* fluid on the shoes, replace them. Tried to get ahold of them to tell them to replace the shoes ($15 at AutoZone). Couldn't get the mechanic on the phone. The guy who answered kept saying, "He'll call you if there's a problem with the shoes." >>Would just >> cleaning the shoes be enough? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Neither shop sounds reputable at all. > If there is *any* fluid on the shoes, replace them. Here's part three. My son picked up his car after having the wheel cylinder replaced. They said the shoes didn't need replacing; they just cleaned them. However, the original item -- that his parking brake didn't work, which the shop said was because there was brake fluid on the rear shoes, still isn't resolved! He's bringing it back into the shop tomorrow. When he had gone in there, the guy checked the parking brake, and told him that it was adjusted correctly (3-4 clicks). However, the brake still isn't holding the car. With the brake fluid out of the drum and the shoes cleaned, it should worked. Something about this shop doesn't smell right. > <benteac...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Something about this shop doesn't smell right. Do you feel comfortable pulling a rear wheel yourself? I'd be curious to see what you find when you finally get in there. Maybe the cables are binding up? I know that I did have to replace the cables on my GTI. nate > > <benteac...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > nate More thoughts... if this were *my* car I'd want to find out if the parking brake issue is symptomatic of a problem with the service brakes or is separate. Can you simply jack the whole rear of the car up, place it on stands, and see if the service brakes are working? (spin the rear wheels, have a helper apply the brake pedal, see if they stop well.) If the service brakes are not working either, you either need to replace the shoes or there is some kind of mechanical problem with the brakes. If they *ARE* working, you probably need new parking brake cables. Also VW's of "a certain age" (not sure if yours falls in this category) had a load sensitive prop valve mounted near the "beam" of the rear axle. If this seizes up, and it sounds like your son's car was neglected long enough that this might be a possibility, you'll have full pressure to the rear brakes which can result in premature rear lockup. I'd like to crawl under there and see if the mechanical linkage from the prop valve to the axle beam is free or if it is seized. If it is seized, you need to replace the prop valve. That may not be a DIY job - it wasn't on my '89 GTI. Theoretically it is, but I couldn't get the brake lines loose from it without using a torch, and that's far easier and safer in a proper shop with a lift and fire extinguishers handy etc. nate >>>Would just >>> cleaning the shoes be enough? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Something about this shop doesn't smell right. I agree! hmmmmmm You firmly pull up the parking brake and it does not hold? I am not sure which VW it is, but that does not seem right to me either! A very light coating of brake fluid can be cleaned off the shoes if done BEFORE the fluid soaks in. So if the brake fluid touches the shoes quickly clean it off! I think that these shoes might have soaked up some brake fluid and may need replacing. Kinda cheap stopping insurance. > > > On Apr 5, 11:17 am, "Neil" <nos...@nospam.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Something about this shop doesn't smell right. > When a brake shoe is contaminated with brake fluid, it needs to be replaced. It can not be cleaned. It's a cheap part. Get new ones.  SignatureLife is too short to play cheap guitars. > Thanks to everyone for the excellent advice that's been given regarding our > situation. We're definitely going to get the car fixed or else just park it. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Thanks! jeez, once you got inside it far enough to replace the cylinders, how cheap would a person have to be to not replace the shoes? or maybe he's hoping to double his labor charge when you come back to replace them later? >> Thanks to everyone for the excellent advice that's been given regarding our >> situation. We're definitely going to get the car fixed or else just park it. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > he's hoping to double his labor charge when you come back to replace > them later? The mechanic who did ours charged a flat rate for the caliper swap. He did not charge extra for cleaning the shoes and I watched him do a really nice job on them. He said 'either' a clean or replace labour was included in the flat rate. He is now our new mechanic and hasn't disappointed us or our friends. It hard to find an honest one. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com On Apr 5, 2:17 pm, "Neil" <nos...@nospam.net> wrote: > Thanks to everyone for the excellent advice that's been given regarding > our [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Thanks! jeez, once you got inside it far enough to replace the cylinders, how cheap would a person have to be to not replace the shoes? or maybe he's hoping to double his labor charge when you come back to replace them later? Maybe. Or he sincerely thinks it's not necessary. Either way, I'll trust his judgment that they won't be unsafe. Doubt I'll go back to that shop again.
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