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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / General Car Topics / June 2008

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'Like house of cards,' used trucks fall

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C. E. White - 23 Jun 2008 18:18 GMT
'Like house of cards,' used trucks fall

Donna Harris
and Arlena Sawyers

Automotive News

June 23, 2008 - 12:01 am ET

Dealer Poncho Redfern sees big used trucks that were worth $20,000 just a
few months ago valued today at $12,000. And he winces.

"It's not like prices are just a little soft," says Redfern, president of
Thomason Auto Group, of San Francisco, which owns seven dealerships in
California and Texas. "The values have dropped extraordinarily. We are
having a hard time adjusting."

Many new-vehicle dealers grew accustomed to raking in big profits on large
used pickups and SUVs. But now those trucks are sucking out cash as they
gather dust.

Soaring fuel prices have toppled the market for big used trucks "like a
house of cards," says Tom Kontos, executive vice president of analytical
services for the ADESA auction company.

In the past three months, values of large used trucks have depreciated more
than ordinarily would be expected in a year, according to CarMax Inc., the
largest used-vehicle retailer in the United States. Some full-sized used
trucks now fetch as little as half their wholesale book value.

Dealers say they can't offer customers much for trade-ins of big trucks -
and some are refusing to take those pickups and SUVs at all.
Sales and prices of large used trucks continue to slump.

Last month, used full-sized pickups sold at auction for an average price of
$9,343 - a 21.3 percent decline from May 2007, ADESA says. The average
wholesale price of large SUVs plunged 19.7 percent to $11,271.

The market for big used trucks shifted "overnight," says Patrick Walsh, a
Ford dealer in rural Atwater, Minn. "I don't think any of us were ready for
that."

Truck dump

Wholesale prices of used big pickups and SUVs plunged by one-fifth last
month.

                                          Change
                   AVG. Price     FROM
                   MAY '08        MAY '07
Full-sized
pickups           $9,343         -21.3%
Large SUVs   $11,271        -19.7%
Source: ADESA Analytical Services

Earnings plunge

Late last week, Ford Motor Credit Co. said it will take a pretax loss this
year, mainly because of "further weakness in large truck and SUV auction
values."

Last week, CarMax said its net income for the three months that ended May 31
fell 55 percent from the year-ago period, to $29.6 million. Company CEO Tom
Folliard cited a 25 percent drop in wholesale prices of big trucks in the
quarter.

The steep decline has continued in June, Folliard said. "This is the
longest-lasting depreciation of a large segment we've ever seen," he said
during an earnings call last week.

DCH Auto Group, of South Amboy, N.J., owns 31 dealerships in California, New
York, New Jersey and Connecticut. Last year, sales of large pickups and SUVs
accounted for 25 to 30 percent of the private group's used-vehicle sales.
Now it's 15 to 20 percent, the company says.

"This collapse is a major issue for us," says DCH CEO Susan Scarola.

Big losers

How wholesale prices of some used big trucks fell between January and June.
All vehicles are 2005 models.

                                      15-Jun      Jan. 1   CHANGE
BMW X5 4.4i                $24,200  $31,400  -22.9%
Toyota Tundra Ltd. -
Double 4wd                   $16,525  $21,425  -22.9%
Ford F-150 Lariat -
SuperCrew 4wd             $16,100  $20,500  -21.5%
Chevrolet Silverado -
1500 LT Crew 4wd        $15,675  $19,875  -21.1%
Infiniti QX56 awd           $23,800  $30,000  -20.7%
Nissan Armada SE awd  $15,150  $18,800  -19.4%
Source: Black Book

Wreaking havoc

Dealer Redfern says his dealerships typically have earned gross profits of
$1,500 to $2,000 on the sale of a used truck, not including finance and
insurance. On a new car, he says, the typical profit margin is $300 to $700.
The collapse of used-truck sales is especially painful, he says.

"You can't outrun it in F&I," Redfern says. "There's only so much you can
honestly earn in that department. This wreaks havoc on the bottom line."

In May, an informal Automotive News survey found that one out of 10 dealers
no longer accepted big SUVs and pickups as trade-ins. Other dealers said
they didn't have that option but were offering far lower trade-in prices.

"We can't turn them away," says Ken Cooper, sales manager of Alex Chevrolet
in rural Charles Town, W.Va. "We are in a small town. If it gets around that
we weren't taking trucks as trade-ins, we wouldn't be doing any business."

Customers who want to trade in a big truck for a fuel-efficient new car are
having the hardest time, Redfern says. Some new trucks carry factory
incentives of several thousand dollars, he notes, while the incentive on a
car might be just a few hundred dollars.

Owners who owe money on their sharply depreciated big trucks are in for an
even bigger shock, he adds.

"We see people with $10,000 in negative equity," Redfern says. "A dealer
does not have enough room to help the customer out of it."

Alysha Webb contributed to this report
Jim Higgins - 23 Jun 2008 19:46 GMT
> 'Like house of cards,' used trucks fall
>
[quoted text clipped - 120 lines]
>
> Alysha Webb contributed to this report

And if the June sales forecast is fulfilled it will be a catastrophic
decline in sales and value.

Signature

Civis Romanus Sum

PerfectReign - 23 Jun 2008 20:41 GMT
<snip>

> "We see people with $10,000 in negative equity," Redfern says. "A dealer
> does not have enough room to help the customer out of it."

That's insane!

I've done the calculations. I figure if - instead of commuting in my
mid-size Avalanche at 15MPG - I inherited a small econobox that got 25MPG,
I could potentially save about $2K/year in gas.

That would be nice.

However, if I were looking at replacing said Avalanche with said econobox I
wouldn't even think about loosing $10K in negative equity. It would take
five years of driving the econobox just to make up for it.

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Ted Mittelstaedt - 26 Jun 2008 12:18 GMT
> <snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> wouldn't even think about loosing $10K in negative equity. It would take
> five years of driving the econobox just to make up for it.

You don't understand how the majority of people think, financially.  If
you really looked at the housing credit crisis and why it happened you
might understand.

30 years ago, people would save up money for the big ticket items.
They would make sure that their income was higher than their expenses
by a fairly wide margin and would sock away as much as they could -
because they knew that they had to have a savings to cover those
unexpected expenses.  Like a set of new tires, or a trip to the
emergency room to set a broken leg, etc.

Today, people don't want to save.  They have been taught by a
generation of shysters that they want to spend as much as they make
because somehow if their money sits in a bank somewhere it gets
smaller and smaller.  (apparently nobody understands compound
interest anymore)

Of course, the problem then is that for this to work it's -imperative-
that your expenses are the -same- every month.  You cannot have
any large unexpected shock expenses.

People will go out and buy a new car that's under warranty and
also buy an extended warranty - because doing that, you can finance
it all, and your car+warranty payment is now the same every month.
You won't have unexpected car expenses because the warranty
takes care of that.

Obviously, doing it this way costs people more in the long run,
but they would rather pay more as long as the costs are the
same every month, than pay less and save the difference to use
for the unexpected expenses.

The people replacing Avalanchs with econoboxes are doing
it because the fuel price rises are unexpected, and have
broken their budget.  So, the trade in the Avalanch, get a
new econobox, and finance everything.  Then their uncontrolled
variable expenses - fuel - drop.  And their non-variable
expenses rise, but not as much because they have financed it
and thus pushed the additional expenses into the future.

Look at President Bush.  He has pushed most of the Iraq
war expenses into the future for Obama to deal with when
he becomes president.   And I will bet that by then the
debt will be so large and the deficit so high that even if he
wanted to, Obama will have no choice but to push it into
the future for the next president to deal with.  And so on
and so on.

And your amazed that the common citizen is watching this
financial gamesmanship and doesen't want to try copying it
himself?  Where have YOU been?

Ted
Ted Mittelstaedt - 26 Jun 2008 12:21 GMT
> <snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> wouldn't even think about loosing $10K in negative equity. It would take
> five years of driving the econobox just to make up for it.

You don't understand how the majority of people think, financially.  If
you really looked at the housing credit crisis and why it happened you
might understand.

30 years ago, people would save up money for the big ticket items.
They would make sure that their income was higher than their expenses
by a fairly wide margin and would sock away as much as they could -
because they knew that they had to have a savings to cover those
unexpected expenses.  Like a set of new tires, or a trip to the
emergency room to set a broken leg, etc.

Today, people don't want to save.  They have been taught by a
generation of shysters that they want to spend as much as they make
because somehow if their money sits in a bank somewhere it gets
smaller and smaller.  (apparently nobody understands compound
interest anymore)

Of course, the problem then is that for this to work it's -imperative-
that your expenses are the -same- every month.  You cannot have
any large unexpected shock expenses.

People will go out and buy a new car that's under warranty and
also buy an extended warranty - because doing that, you can finance
it all, and your car+warranty payment is now the same every month.
You won't have unexpected car expenses because the warranty
takes care of that.

Obviously, doing it this way costs people more in the long run,
but they would rather pay more as long as the costs are the
same every month, than pay less and save the difference to use
for the unexpected expenses.

The people replacing Avalanchs with econoboxes are doing
it because the fuel price rises are unexpected, and have
broken their budget.  So, the trade in the Avalanch, get a
new econobox, and finance everything.  Then their uncontrolled
variable expenses - fuel - drop.  And their non-variable
expenses rise, but not as much because they have financed it
and thus pushed the additional expenses into the future.

Look at President Bush.  He has pushed most of the Iraq
war expenses into the future for Obama to deal with when
he becomes president.   And I will bet that by then the
debt will be so large and the deficit so high that even if he
wanted to, Obama will have no choice but to push it into
the future for the next president to deal with.  And so on
and so on.

And your amazed that the common citizen is watching this
financial gamesmanship and doesen't want to try copying it
himself?  Where have YOU been?

Ted
Sir F. A. Rien - 26 Jun 2008 15:57 GMT
"Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com> found these unused words:

>Look at President Bush,
clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy ... !
They have pushed most of the country's expenses into the future for Obama to
deal with when/ IF
>he becomes president.   And I will bet that by then the
>debt will be so large and the deficit so high that even if he
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>And your
"your" what ???

>amazed that the common citizen is watching this
>financial gamesmanship and doesen't want to try copying it
>himself?  Where have YOU been?

He doesn't? Then why are we in this mess, but that Joe Citizen -=did=- copy
the DEMOCRATIC created mode of spend now - pay later? Thank you FDR & JFK!

>Ted
PerfectReign - 26 Jun 2008 15:59 GMT
<snip>

> And your amazed that the common citizen is watching this
> financial gamesmanship and doesen't want to try copying it
> himself?  Where have YOU been?

Valid points.

I should mention that - when I bought the Avalanche, I got it for dealer
invoice + $100 and had a $6000 GM rebate.

Therefore, I got a truck with a sticker of $36,000 for $24,000 and change.
(Plus my contribution to the state and local tax accounts.)

I wouldn't have done otherwise and been further in debt. Yes, I'd love to
drive a Navigator or an Escalade but don't want to mortgage my house in
order to finance such trucks.  

My wife's '05 Vue was paid off in early '06 and I expect the '06 Avalanche
to be paid off sometime later this year.

Yeah, I'd like to get 35 MPG in a large-size truck, but I know it ain't
gonna happen.

Oddly enough, I noticed something lately.  Whereas I used to drive streets
to work in order to avoid the over-congested freeways, I'm now driving the
freeway all the way into work. I do slow down at times but never come to a
complete stop.  That alone boosts my mileage a few points.  

My thanks to all those no longer driving the LA freeways in the AM.  :)

Signature

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remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request

Sir F. A. Rien - 26 Jun 2008 23:30 GMT
PerfectReign <theperfectreign@yahoo.com> found these unused words:

>remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request

In which Sears did you buy your license?
PerfectReign - 27 Jun 2008 15:49 GMT
> PerfectReign <theperfectreign@yahoo.com> found these unused words:
>
>>remember - a turn signal is a statement, not a request
>
> In which Sears did you buy your license?

Heh - you like that one?

I heard it on the radio one day.

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