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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / General Car Topics / October 2008Asian brands dominate reliability list; Ford Motor is best domestic
Asian brands dominate reliability list; Ford Motor is best domestic Chrysler brand leads decliners; Kia, Hyundai show major gains Chrissie Thompson Automotive News October 23, 2008 - 4:11 pm ET DETROIT -- Most Ford Motor Co. vehicles now show average or better reliability, Consumer Reports' 2008 car reliability survey said, although Japanese carmakers still hold their lead in the study's rankings of 34 brands. No Ford Motor brand has cracked the survey's top 10 list of predicted reliable makes, but the automaker's steady improvement in the rankings over recent years backs Ford executives' oft-stated desire to meet or exceed the quality of Asian automakers. "Ford's three nameplates -- Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury -- lead the domestic automakers and continue to pull away from the rest of Detroit," the report said. Ford Motor is "extremely close to Toyota and Honda in terms of reliability," said David Champion, head of the magazine's auto-testing division, at today's meeting here of the Automotive Press Association. Ford's models with below-average reliability are older, truck-based models such as the Ford F-150, Explorer and Explorer Sport Trac and the Mercury Mountaineer V-8, he said. The survey ranked Scion, Acura, Honda and Toyota highest on its list of brands predicted to produce reliable models in 2009. The top 10 were all Asian brands. Kia joined the top 10 with the greatest improvement in the survey, finishing 10th and gaining 12 places on the list compared with last year. Sister brand Hyundai moved up seven spots to finish eighth in the rankings. Chrysler, Saturn and Land Rover ranked last on the 2009 predicted reliability list. The Chrysler brand showed the steepest decline in the rankings, losing 13 spots. Saturn was next, dropping 10 places. Porsche, after gaining 20 spots in the 2008 predicted rankings, fell 10 spots this year. The magazine completes the survey via questionnaires sent in the spring to 5 million of its subscribers. Consumer Reports then recommends vehicles that perform well in its testing, show at least average reliability in the survey and score well in safety studies. Fuel-efficient vehicles rank among the most reliable, Champion said, citing Toyota's Prius and manual transmission Yaris, the Smart ForTwo, the manual Scion xD and the 2008 manual Honda Fit. "A lot of people are worried about hybrid vehicles' being unreliable, having battery problems," Champion said. But most hybrids are more reliable than their nonhybrid counterparts, he said. And some hybrid models -- the 2001 Prius and the 2000 Honda Insight -- are still performing well after years on the road, Champion said. Ford Motor's high-reliability ranking is not a "flash in the pan," he said. "If they only had models that were slightly more exciting for the public to buy, they'd be in a lot better place." General Motors' models have the appeal Ford lacks, Champion said, but trail in reliability. Chrysler's case is "a little more desperate," he said. "Their reliability is down from last year. The products that we've tested have all been mediocre at best, and they're all recently redesigned models." The survey of predicted reliability for 2009 brands ranked Lincoln No. 11, Mercury No. 15 and Ford No. 17. Buick was the top-finishing GM brand, ranking No. 18. Chrysler, Jeep and Dodge all fell in the bottom 20 percent in the ranking. Consumer Reports last year chastised Toyota Motor Corp. for producing three below-average vehicles: the Toyota Camry V-6 and Tundra four-wheel-drive V-8 and the Lexus all-wheel-drive GS. Those vehicles now have reached average reliability, the survey found. But the magazine has not restored its automatic recommendation for all new Toyota vehicles. > Asian brands dominate reliability list; Ford Motor is best domestic > [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > magazine has not restored its automatic recommendation for all new > Toyota vehicles. Hopefully today's Ford is better than the 1997 F-150 I had. There were so many rattles and shakes in that truck that it was driving me crazy. The dealer service manager asked me what my other car is and I told him a 1994 Camry. He said "This is not a Toyota, get used to the rattles." I knew then I couldn't live with a Ford. > Hopefully today's Ford is better than the 1997 F-150 I had. There were > so many rattles and shakes in that truck that it was driving me crazy. > The dealer service manager asked me what my other car is and I told him > a 1994 Camry. He said "This is not a Toyota, get used to the rattles." > I knew then I couldn't live with a Ford. You are full of more bullshit then a *normal* Toyota nutjob...And that's a lot of sh.t. > > Hopefully today's Ford is better than the 1997 F-150 I had. There > > were so many rattles and shakes in that truck that it was driving [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > You are full of more bullshit then a normal Toyota nutjob...And > that's a lot of sh.t. What I wrote is absolutely true. Maybe it didn't help that the 1997 F-150 was three years old at the time. Why do you not believe me, are you a Ford owner? Has Ford gotten rid of the shimmy and "square wheel" ride? That would be a step forward. Powers surveys, which surveys a far greater number of buyers, rates some Ford models ABOVE Toyota and Honda > Asian brands dominate reliability list; Ford Motor is best domestic > [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > have reached average reliability, the survey found. But the magazine has > not restored its automatic recommendation for all new Toyota vehicles. > Powers surveys, which surveys a far greater number of buyers, rates some > Ford models ABOVE Toyota and Honda And more telling, the C.R. top-scoring Scion is way below industry average on the 2008 JD Power Vehicle Dependability Study, which was released in August. For the first time I can recall, the C.R. study is way out of whack with the JD Power results. There are other brands which don't match the way they used to. Derek > "Ford's three nameplates -- Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury -- lead the > domestic automakers and continue to pull away from the rest of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > models such as the Ford F-150, Explorer and Explorer Sport Trac and > the Mercury Mountaineer V-8, he said. If only they still made the decently-sized Excursion. That'd be a great little truck with the 6.4L under the hood.  Signaturewww.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org government is a process which utilizes 45.5% gut reaction, 45.5% laws and statutes and 1% logic >> "Ford's three nameplates -- Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury -- lead the >> domestic automakers and continue to pull away from the rest of [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > great > little truck with the 6.4L under the hood. Ford replaced the Excursion with Expedition XL (nearly the same interior room and a lot better ride). The 300 HP 5.4L V-8 should be enough for most users. It is not rated to tow as much as a maxed out Excursion, but it still is pretty good. Ed I seldom see Toyota cars on the road in my country because our country encourage the people to use our national car. Since its my school semester break I have been using my free time playing games like <a href=http://www.gamestotal.com> http://www.gamestotal.com </a> <a href=http://uc.gamestotal.com> http://uc.gamestotal.com </a> <a href=http://gc.gamestotal.com> http://gc.gamestotal.com </a> <a href=http://3700ad.gamestotal.com> http://3700ad.gamestotal.com </a> <a href=http://manga.gamestotal.com> http://manga.gamestotal.com </a> > Asian brands dominate reliability list; Ford Motor is best domestic The term "asian brands" is misleading and reflects the stereotyping of asian ethnicities which is comprised of the ignorance of asian nations at best and latent racism at worst. The Japanese have been building cars since the 1950s, exporting to the US since the 1960s and have been global players in the field to the extent of actually threatening the US auto industry by the early 1980s. Since then all US auto makers have worked in collaboration with the top Japanese auto makers to varying degrees and with the advent of US factories starting in the 1980s the vast majority of "Japanese cars" we see on our roads today are made here in the United States. The Korean auto industry started later when Hyundai obtained technical assistance from Mitsubishi Motors in the 1970s. Coming from behind it took a good decade for South Korean cars to penetrate the US market and to produce cars of a level that the American consumers would readily accept. To date South Korea has one auto plant in the United States. As to Chinese cars, well now that China's export driven economy is hitting the brakes as their main customers' economies are going down the toilet, the concern now is whether China's domestic economy will be such that Chinese auto makers can grow without an export market. So to call these cars "Asian cars" is like calling all wines from Europe "European Wines" and lumping the French products together with the Lithuanian and Hungarian ones. Frankly it was far more accurate to call them "Japanese Cars" like we did when we use to smash them in the early 1980s. Although today, they ought to be called "American made Japanese cars" to be precise. >> Asian brands dominate reliability list; Ford Motor is best domestic > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Japanese have been building cars >since the 1950s, That will be news to DATSUN! Or do the first 40 years of car manufacture count for nothing? Or are you implying that they didn't make cars until the USA showed them how? Again not true considering that they produced Austin A and B series engines under license in the 50's. http://www.datsunhistory.com/home.html >exporting to the US since the 1960s and have been global >players in the field to the extent >of actually threatening the US auto industry by the early 1980s. <snip> SignaturePeter Hill Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header Can of worms - what every fisherman wants. Can of worms - what every PC owner gets! > That will be news to DATSUN! Or do the first 40 years of car > manufacture count for nothing? Or are you implying that they didn't > make cars until the USA showed them how? Again not true considering > that they produced Austin A and B series engines under license in the > 50's.http://www.datsunhistory.com/home.html They didn't make cars *well* until they copied British and American designs. To be accurate, these designs were given to them.They didnt build engines under license or pay royalties. After getting clobbered in WW2, The Japanese were given the ideas and technology that they used to build their auto industry as part of our reconstruction of their country. So, yes, they kinda didnt build cars until we showed them how. Ben > Frankly it was far > more accurate to call them "Japanese Cars" > like we did when we use to smash them in the early 1980s. Although today, > they ought to be called > "American made Japanese cars" to be precise. The domestic content of the popular vehicles with Japanese nameplates (Accord, Camry, Civic, Corolla, etc.) is now almost at par with the domestic content of U.S. name plates. And remember, this doesn't include any of the labor, which is the largest single value item that goes into the vehicle. Some models produced by the big three have lower domestic content than vehicles produced in the U.S. by foreign-owned companies like Honda and Toyota. For example, in model year 2006, the Ford Mustang had 65% domestic content and the Chevrolet Suburban had 67% domestic content, while the Honda Accord was at 70% and the Toyota Camry was at 80%. There are multiple ways of measuring domestic content, depending on what you're trying to prove. The EPA considers a vehicle as domestic if 75% or more of its content is produced in North America (not just the U.S. but all of North America including Canada and Mexico). The U.S. Treasury says that if 50% of the content is from the U.S. or Canada then it can be considered a domestically produced vehicle. The American Automobile Labeling Act (AALA) says that a vehicle is domestic if 85% or more of its parts are from the U.S. or Canada. Bottom line is that the domestic content laws are so convoluted that the best way to support U.S. workers is to simply ensure that the vehicle is assembled in the U.S. (not in Canada or Mexico). All the "transplant" factories are working to increase the domestic parts content because it's more economical to use parts produced in the U.S. than to ship them halfway around the world. You can feel good about keeping American workers in their jobs, and about buying a vehicle with high domestic content, and about encouraging the domestic content to increase even more. Furthermore, many of the vehicles manufactured in the U.S. are also designed in U.S. design centers. When Chrysler was owned by Mercedes, no one claimed that Chryslers were suddenly German cars simply because the corporation was foreign-owned. A Toyota Camry assembled in Kentucky with 80% domestic content is as much an American car as anything from Ford, GM, or Chrysler. So why do the automakers love Canada and Mexico so much? In Canada they don't have to provide health care benefits since Canada has universal coverage. In Mexico they are free from the burdensome environmental regulations, besides having much lower cost labor. >> Frankly it was far more accurate to call them "Japanese Cars" >> like we did when we use to smash them in the early 1980s. Although today, [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > coverage. In Mexico they are free from the burdensome environmental > regulations, besides having much lower cost labor. Careful; in Canada, the companies pay corporate taxes and workers pay premiums that fund the health care. No free lunch here, either. The lunch may cost less, though. Canada is not the U.S.'s problem in NAFTA. SignatureAndrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) >> Frankly it was far >> more accurate to call them "Japanese Cars" [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > any of the labor, which is the largest single value item that goes into > the vehicle. then there's my Chevy Avalanche - made entirely in Mexico. Arriba! Arriba! Andele! Andele! Signaturewww.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org Clean out a corner of your mind and creativity will instantly fill it. - Dee Hock > Chrysler, Saturn and Land Rover ranked last on the 2009 predicted > reliability list. The Chrysler brand showed the steepest decline in the > rankings, losing 13 spots. Saturn was next, dropping 10 places. Saturn and Land Rover have always been extremely unreliable brands. I didn't realize that Chrysler was so bad, though after renting one of their minivans for the first time in July/August, I'm not surprised at the results; I didn't realize that there were still vehicles as bad as that around. Interesting that such a large percentage of the Asian branded vehicles sold in the U.S. are actually built here as well, and a lot of them are designed in the U.S. as well. So it's not the assembly workers that are the cause of the unreliability, and it's not that U.S. car designers are unable to design reliable vehicles. It's a corporate problem of reliability being given minimal importance in the design process. |
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