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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / General Car Topics / November 2009Latest Mis-Leading Tundra Commercial
Has anyone notice the snap shot in the new Tundra Commercial? In the commercial a contractor talks about when he started out 7 years ago he needed a dependable truck and bought a Tundra (this in itself is misleading - I doubt if 1 in a 100 contractor considered a Tunda in 2002). He shows a snap shot of his "first" Tundra. The snap shot is of a current body style Tundra, not the version from 7 years ago. Was this a deliberate attempt to mislead people, or just another bad choice by the clueless idiots that do Tundra commercials? I don't think any vehicle has ever been promoted with so many obviously misleading ads. No matter how good or bad the current Tundra may be, the ads suck. Ed > Has anyone notice the snap shot in the new Tundra Commercial? In the > commercial a contractor talks about when he started out 7 years ago he > needed a dependable truck and bought a Tundra (this in itself is > misleading - I doubt if 1 in a 100 contractor considered a Tunda in > 2002). The only contractor I've used had a Tundra of that era. He still has it with nearly 300K miles on it. His feeling is that it's better to spend a little more for a truck that will not need replacing every few years, but it's true that the Tundra cost more than your standard Ford, Chevy, or Dodge truck. Really? If anyone actually wanted a Tundra they could have had their pick at the Manheim Auto Auctions for as low as $25,000 just last month. I don't know were you live but I'm sure if you look around and you will see plenty of twenty year old F150's still running on the roadways. One old Tundra is an oddity ;) >> Has anyone notice the snap shot in the new Tundra Commercial? In the >> commercial a contractor talks about when he started out 7 years ago he [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > it's true that the Tundra cost more than your standard Ford, Chevy, or > Dodge truck. Those used Tundras being auctioned - were they previously owned by people who used them for work, or people who bought trucks "just because", and gas prices slapped them back to sanity? > Really? If anyone actually wanted a Tundra they could have had their pick > at the Manheim Auto Auctions for as low as $25,000 just last month. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> it's true that the Tundra cost more than your standard Ford, Chevy, or >> Dodge truck. They were brand new never titled, sold by a Toyota distributer, at general auction dummy. Domestics can not do that they can only sell new vehicles to their franchised dealerships. > Those used Tundras being auctioned - were they previously owned by people > who used them for work, or people who bought trucks "just because", and [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >>> but it's true that the Tundra cost more than your standard Ford, Chevy, >>> or Dodge truck. the oddity is finding very many eight to ten year old F150's running the roads > Really? If anyone actually wanted a Tundra they could have had their pick > at the Manheim Auto Auctions for as low as $25,000 just last month. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> it's true that the Tundra cost more than your standard Ford, Chevy, or >> Dodge truck. > the oddity is finding very many eight to ten year old F150's running the > roads You are kidding. I know of plenty of F150s 8 to 10 years old and many more that are over 20 years old. I kept my 1992 F150 for 14 years. It is the Toyota that disintegrate. I can't think of any other manufacturer that had to recall vehicles because the frame rotted out. A good friend always brags about how long his Tacoma lasted but he usually omits that he had to have the transmission rebuilt twice and the engine replaced one. And he didn't think the rust holes were significant. Nothing wrong with Toyotas, but they are not in the same league with an F150 when it comes to toughness. They are great vehicles for people that really needed a car. Ed >> Really? If anyone actually wanted a Tundra they could have had their >> pick at the Manheim Auto Auctions for as low as $25,000 just last month. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >>> but it's true that the Tundra cost more than your standard Ford, Chevy, >>> or Dodge truck. >> the oddity is finding very many eight to ten year old F150's running the >> roads [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Ed By "toughness", do you mean the ability to withstand use by professionals who beat the crap out of a truck, like masons, carpenters, etc? No, I think you are kidding. I see Dodges, Chevys and Fords with rusted frames (steel doesn't "rot) right here in AZ. My 98 Tacoma can run rings around any full sized Amerikan vehicle. It's been offroad every f.cking week for 11 years and there's nothing rebuilt about the drive train and no rust either. American vehicles are good for hauling fat passengers and massive tonnages of cargo but utterly worthless offroad. They do not hold their value and quality is nonexistent. >> the oddity is finding very many eight to ten year old F150's running the >> roads [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >>>> but it's true that the Tundra cost more than your standard Ford, Chevy, >>>> or Dodge truck. This is interesting. Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrk6vsb77xk Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uc4Ksz3nHM&NR=1 Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfZDtC9kjVk&NR=1 > No, I think you are kidding. I see Dodges, Chevys and Fords with rusted > frames (steel doesn't "rot) right here in AZ. My 98 Tacoma can run rings [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >>>>> years, but it's true that the Tundra cost more than your standard >>>>> Ford, Chevy, or Dodge truck. > No, I think you are kidding. I see Dodges, Chevys and Fords with rusted > frames (steel doesn't "rot) right here in AZ. My 98 Tacoma can run rings [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > tonnages of cargo but utterly worthless offroad. They do not hold their > value and quality is nonexistent. The Tundra is a very popular truck for contractors. It's expensive, but it's much tougher than the trucks from Ford like the F150, and they last for a very long time. The F150 is more for the weekend warrior that needs to occasionally tow a boat, or pick up a load of stuff from Home Depot. They were popular car replacements for a long time, but they really can't be considered "work trucks." >> No, I think you are kidding. I see Dodges, Chevys and Fords with >> rusted frames (steel doesn't "rot) right here in AZ. My 98 Tacoma [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > stuff from Home Depot. They were popular car replacements for a long > time, but they really can't be considered "work trucks." Come on, this is total BS. It is almost the exact opposite of reality. I'll bet 80+% plus Tundras are sold to people who never haul or tow anything more significant than a load of potting soil form Home Depot. Most serious contractors/famrer go for F250s ,or Silverado HDs. I use my F150 on my farm and it does jsut fine. I considered an F250, but the F150 jsut seemed to suit me better. If I was goign to tow a 20 ft cattle weekly, then I'd probably have gone for the F250 (or 350), but I only tow something heavy a few times a year, so I decided to go for the F150 (queiter, better ride). I do regulalrly carry pallet loads of seed in my truck (2500#) and it handles that just fine. I know one farmer in my area that owns a Tundra...but for real work he pulls out his F250. The Tundra is his ride around truck. The local Toyota dealer was practically giving them away and he couldn't resist. As for toughness, have you looked under a Tundra? Try it and then look under an F250. The Tundra frame is so whimpy the bed shakes like a bowl of jello if you leave the tailgate open. Go to http://www.fordvehicles.com/2009f150/ and look at the durability test. I know this is a Ford produces advertising film, so I don't doubt it is biased, but there are enough complaints from Tundra owners that I am sure it is a problem and there are aftermarket fixes you can buy, so it must be a significant problem. Ed >>> No, I think you are kidding. I see Dodges, Chevys and Fords with rusted >>> frames (steel doesn't "rot) right here in AZ. My 98 Tacoma can run [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Come on, this is total BS. It is almost the exact opposite of reality. The words you just typed suggest that you're sure of your claim. > I'll bet 80+% plus Tundras are sold to people who never haul or tow > anything more significant than a load of potting soil form Home Depot. But these words say the opposite: You're guessing, wishing or hoping. Maybe ***SOMEONE*** has this information, but you do not, and neither does anyone else in this discussion, including me. > Most serious contractors/famrer go for F250s ,or Silverado HDs. See above. You have no data to back this up, except for what you've seen with your own eyes, and that's just not enough data, unless you failed statistics in college. The only people who **MIGHT** have this information would be the salespeople who sell trucks, assuming they were professional enough to qualify their customers by asking how they intended to use their trucks. But since most car salesman are slobs, even this is a stretch. "JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash@frontiernet.net> found these unused words: >>>> No, I think you are kidding. I see Dodges, Chevys and Fords with rusted >>>> frames (steel doesn't "rot) right here in AZ. My 98 Tacoma can run [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >enough to qualify their customers by asking how they intended to use their >trucks. But since most car salesman are slobs, even this is a stretch. "monthly sales figures announced by the manufacturers aggregate sales of light- and heavy-duty pickups but some news outlets incorrectly report the F-150 as the best-selling vehicle (and pickup) when they are really reporting total F-Series sales." [pickuptrucks.com] AFAIK, only J.D.Powers -=breaks out=- truck sales by category, light, medium and heavy. DETROIT (AP) General Motors' (GM) U.S. sales plunged 21.3% in June and Ford (F) dropped 8.1% while Toyota (TM) reported a 10.2% sales surge compared with a year ago. Light-truck sales were up 11.9%, led by the redesigned Tundra full-size pickup. "Tundra really hit its stride this month, posting a record sales pace," Jim Lentz, executive vice president of Toyota's U.S. division, said in a statement. "In a short five months, the new truck's earned its stripes with both loyal Toyota owners and those new to the brand." [July 2009] > "JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash@frontiernet.net> found these unused words: > [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > both loyal Toyota owners and those new to the brand." > [July 2009] I don't see how that information reveals HOW BUYERS USE THEIR TRUCKS. The category names don't mean a thing in terms of showing who actually uses trucks for work, or just a family vehicle. > DETROIT (AP) - General Motors' (GM) U.S. sales plunged 21.3% in June > and [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > both loyal Toyota owners and those new to the brand." > [July 2009] Check the latest numbers.... For September 2009 Tundra sales were down 21.3% compared to Sept 2008 (6,308 vs 7,696). For 2009 year to date (end of September) Tundra sales were down 50.6% (56,599 vs 115, 026). That doesn't seem like the Tundra is hitting it stride any more.... For September 2009 F Series Sales were UP 3.5 percent campared to Sept 2009 (33,877 vs 32,727). For 2009 year to date (end of September) F Series sales were down 24.8% (295,426 vs 392,698). Toyota can spin things any way they want, but the facts are clear - the Tundra is huge flop. Billion down the tube on an oversized poorly designed pig of a truck. They took a decent design and turned it into a bad clone of a Silverado. I suppose you might argue that it is about as good as a Titan, but when the debate is whether your truck is the fourth or fifth best large pickup in the US, you should just stamp loser on the taillgate and go back to building vehicles you understand. At least they still have the Tacoma to give them some credibility in the pickup world. The Tundra is just a bad joke. Ed > DETROIT (AP) — General Motors' (GM) U.S. sales plunged 21.3% in June and > Ford (F) dropped 8.1% while Toyota (TM) reported a 10.2% sales surge [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > statement. "In a short five months, the new truck's earned its stripes with > both loyal Toyota owners and those new to the brand." The Tundra has always been a favorite of contractors and those that use their trucks for actual work and not just farting around. Last week I was at In 'N Out and parked between an Ford crew cab and a Tundra crew cab. The Tundra was a few years old with steel racks carrying 2x4's and PVC, a tool box in the bed, and a big old vise on the bumper. Three construction workers got into it as I got out of my car. The Ford crew cab had two child seats in the back, and a mom was getting her two toddlers out of the back. The above scenario is very typical. The Ford is a passenger car replacement for those that have occasional need for a truck for towing a boat or trailer, or picking up gardening stuff from the home improvement store. Heck, if I were going to buy a Ford, I'd buy one of their trucks as well. The Tundra customer is buying a truck because they need a reliable work vehicle, not a passenger car. Oh, and as someone pointed out in a previous post, the Tundra has higher domestic content. > But these words say the opposite: You're guessing, wishing or hoping. Maybe > ***SOMEONE*** has this information, but you do not, and neither does anyone > else in this discussion, including me. You're right. Empirical evidence doesn't really prove anything. In my area the Tundra is an extremely popular truck for contractors, while the F150 is more for the person that wants a truck to use as a personal vehicle. If you read the reviews of the Tundra, it makes a poor personal vehicle. Look at the Popular Mechanics review. The Tundra with the V8 had the strongest engine, with the quickest 0-30 (laden with ballast it was still better than the F150 or the Ram, and the crew cab was the best for, well, actually carrying a crew. But it got dinged for its truck-like suspension (well duh, it's actually a truck!). The F150 had a softer, more car-like suspension because its target market is different. It was rated the best for handling. It got dinged for the extra deep bed which made loading more difficult. The engine isn't as powerful so it was a bit slower as well, but nothing to worry about. The biggest problem with the Tundra is that not enough buyers are willing to pay premium for toughness or longevity. Look at how many older F-150's you see on the road versus older Tundra's. It's not an exaggeration to say that you could buy one Tundra for every two F150s, so the upfront savings on the F150 is offset by the longevity of the Tundra. Actually in the PM test the TOYOTA TUNDRA CREWMAX LIMITED had a lower MSRP than the FORD F-150 KING RANCH. The difference is that the F-150 is heavily discounted to well under invoice, while the Tundra is discounted less. > The biggest problem with the Tundra is that not enough buyers are willing > to pay premium for toughness or longevity. When I was pricing trucks last February, the Tundras were heavily discounted. I actually paid more for an F150 than I was qouted for a Tundra with similar equipment (smaller V8, Access Cab). One trip down a rough road convinced me the Tundra was a no go. Try running one over a few bumps with the tailgate down and you wouldn't want one either. It was painfully obvious the Tundra was the inferior truck. Toyota builds some fine vehicle. The Tundra isn't one of them. I probably would be able to get buy with a Tundra, but I prefer something that is overbuilt to something that is just good enough to get buy. A Tundra wouldn't last some farmers I know a year. The frame is too weak, the sheet metal to timmy. And given Toyota mediocre reliabilty record of late and high Toyota repair prices, I couldn't see taking a chance on a Tundra with my money. Ed. > > The biggest problem with the Tundra is that not enough buyers are willing > > to pay premium for toughness or longevity. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Ed. I was at my Toyota dealer today getting my Sienna serviced, oil change. They had a demo board set up showing the difference between the Tundra, F150, Dodge PU, Chev PU and Nissan, showing the tie rod, brake, frame member. The Tundra seemed to have the most heavy duty components compared with the rest. The tie rod and brake disk assy seemed to be the two that stuck out the most. Maybe the Tundra is a pretty good truck after all. The 2010 Prius is a mighty impressive vehicle too. It might be in my future sights a couple years down the road. -- >> > The biggest problem with the Tundra is that not enough buyers are >> > willing [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > the two that stuck out the most. Maybe the Tundra is a pretty good > truck after all. But which Ford, Dodge, or Chevy - HD, SD, 2007, 2008, 2009? Ford did the same thing, and their parts looked better.... When you control the message, you can always make yourself look good. > The 2010 Prius is a mighty impressive vehicle too. It might be in my > future sights a couple years down the road. I was actually suprised how roomy the Prius is. My SO wishes she had one. I don't think it would be at the very top of my list for a new car, butI'd at least be willing to consider one - particaulrly if I changed my life style and had a shorter commute (more city miles). One of the guys at my office has one of the previous generation Prius (actually his wife's) and he is really happy with it - zero problems so far and great gas mileage (even on the highway). My SO's parent also have one of the prior version, and they love theirs too. They are very common around here and I have not heard anyone complaining about them. Ed > >> > The biggest problem with the Tundra is that not enough buyers are > >> > willing [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > Ed 40 to 50 mpg is a big incentive, that is if you need a new car and want something small. I thought of it as engineering excellence which I have high respect for. It does have a lot of cargo space in the rear with seats folded down. It's a very cool vehicle. You have to weigh what you have and what you need. It's maybe not for everyone, but for us I'll keep it in my sights for a few years down the line when as we age and our needs become smaller it may be a vehicle that will meet our lower demands for personal transportation. We want to eventually cut down to one vehicle in a couple years. I see gas prices at the pump only going up in the years ahead. The days of 2.50, 3.00 per gallon are going away. I expect to see $5 or more per gallon gas at the pump in my lifetime. I'm 67 in a month to give you an idea. As for the Tundra as opposed to F and GM I can't say except for what I seen at the Toyota dealership and as you know they puff their vehicles as do Ford and GM. So what ever it's worth. -- ----- Original Message ----- > As for the Tundra as opposed to F and GM I can't say except for what I > seen at the Toyota dealership and as you know they puff their vehicles > as do Ford and GM. So what ever it's worth. Ford uses three different rear ends in F150 (not jsut different gear ratios), three different engines, 3 different transmissions, two different frames, different front and rear springs, etc. Likewise Toyota uses two different rear ends, three different transmissions, and three different engines. Chevy has even more variations. If you carefully pick and chose parts from the various combinations you can create the appearance that one is more heavy duty that another. One thing for sure, none of the parts you saw were from a Super Duty or a Silverado HD. Toyota would like to create the impression that the Tundra is especially heavy duty. The truth is it can't even match up with a properly ordered F150 if you want the a maximum capcity 1/2 ton pick-up. A properly spec'd F150 can tow more, and carry more than the maximum sped'd Tundra. That is the bottom line. I have been disgusted with the Toyota's marketing for the new Tundra from day one. I don't think I have ever seen a more misleading marketing plan. They have tried to cover up the deficiencies of the product with a bunch of misleading commercials. It is sad that such a successful company has resorted to such tactics. Sadder still is the fact that they wasted billions on this dog. Ed I'm still waiting to see a ford off road somewhere (other than in a dirt parking lot) > I'm still waiting to see a ford off road somewhere (other than in a dirt > parking lot) But it says "Off Road©" right on the side of the trucks. Isn't that the absolute truth? Warning: That might've been a sarcastic statement. Toyota used to have a disclaimer in their sales brochure that the Tacoma was built to be used off road. GM used to market their losers as light duty, which I take to mean station wagons with a bed. >> I'm still waiting to see a ford off road somewhere (other than in a dirt >> parking lot) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Warning: That might've been a sarcastic statement. > I'm still waiting to see a ford off road somewhere (other than in a dirt > parking lot) You are going to need to define "off road" My trucks are off road all the time - checking cattle fences, chasing cows, hauling supplies to the planters, pulling equipment out to a field, etc. Now if you are talking about riding around in the mud for fun, well, that is just playing and of no importance to me. I actaully have a lot of problems with people who like to play off road. More than once one of the boys haa had to leave their toy stuck out in the middle of one of my fields. I've had to pull more than one Tacoma out of the mud becasue the idiot driver thought his paly toy could go anywhere. I should start taking pictures. Ed > I'm still waiting to see a ford off road somewhere (other than in a dirt > parking lot) It's just not what they are designed for. Comparing a Ford F150 to a Tundra is like comparing an Explorer to a Land Cruiser. They look similar from the outside, and those that go solely by appearance are the legal prey of salespersons that don't disclose the vehicle's limitations. "dbu`" <nospam@nobama.com.invalid> wrote in message > I was at my Toyota dealer today getting my Sienna serviced, oil change. > They had a demo board set up showing the difference between the Tundra, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the two that stuck out the most. Maybe the Tundra is a pretty good > truck after all. Yes, that's why the Tundras last so long, and have higher resale value. They're built as real commercial trucks, not as a glorified passenger car. ----- Original Message ----- From: "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> Newsgroups: alt.autos,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.toyota.trucks Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 8:16 PM Subject: Re: Latest Mis-Leading Tundra Commercial > "dbu`" <nospam@nobama.com.invalid> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Yes, that's why the Tundras last so long, and have higher resale value. > They're built as real commercial trucks, not as a glorified passenger car. More BS. The Tundra is nothing special. Sure if you do a careful selection of parts you can make a Tundra look good, but I could do the same thing with a Ford or Dodge or Chey and make them look better. Just drive Tundra down a rough road witht he tail gate open and tell me how strong the frame is. It is a joke. Ed >>> > The biggest problem with the Tundra is that not enough buyers are >>> > willing [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > >Ed my best friend buys a new one every other year and says they constantly improve them also. she does a lot of commuting and kid's taxi. she hit the side of a red light runner in a 2003 or 04 and it really kept her and daughter from injury. didn't total it either. pretty rare in a t boning. she won't loan it to me. durn. >> The biggest problem with the Tundra is that not enough buyers are willing >> to pay premium for toughness or longevity. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Ed. the sheet metal is timmy? what about lassie, too? getting buy? you mean by? (i don't proofread either.) ----- Original Message ----- From: <someone@some.domain> Newsgroups: alt.autos,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.toyota.trucks Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:45 PM Subject: Re: Latest Mis-Leading Tundra Commercial >>> The biggest problem with the Tundra is that not enough buyers are >>> willing [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > getting buy? you mean by? > (i don't proofread either.) Worse than that...I let windows spell check for me... Ed >----- Original Message ----- >From: <someone@some.domain> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > >Ed so that's what that smell is? i thought something died next to a heater. let me guess, the new windums 7? vista couldn't spell check it's way out of it's crutch. if you had a Mac you'd have to ride at the back of the bus > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <someone@some.domain> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Ed > >> No, I think you are kidding. I see Dodges, Chevys and Fords with > >> rusted frames (steel doesn't "rot) right here in AZ. My 98 Tacoma [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Ed the tundra is for urban cowboys. F-series is for real work. Tundra is for weekend parenting. > the tundra is for urban cowboys. F-series is for real work. Actually you had it exactly the opposite. The F-150 is a solid workhorse, and Chevy has a strong product as well. Tundra's flimsy engineering is no where near them. The 2009 Tundra sales so far is as weak as in 2006, before it's current generation's launch. So even Dodge Ram from the bankrupt Chrysler is doing better this year. And in "every month of 2009, one or more of the domestic light-duty pickups has sold at a higher price than the Toyota product. This past September, average transaction prices for the Ram 1500 ($35,503) and F-150 ($34,824) were 7% and 5%, respectively, above that of the Tundra ($33,278)." I'm surprised people actually pay $33K for a Tundra. Must be weekenders. Read: http://www.freep.com/article/20091016/BUSINESS01/91015059/1331/business01/After- strong-start--Tundra-stumbles- > The Tundra is a very popular truck for contractors. It's expensive, but > it's much tougher than the trucks from Ford like the F150, and they last > for a very long time. The F150 is more for the weekend warrior that > needs to occasionally tow a boat, or pick up a load of stuff from Home > Depot. They were popular car replacements for a long time, but they > really can't be considered "work trucks." << light-duty pickups well at least they are honest about that part > No, I think you are kidding. I see Dodges, Chevys and Fords with > rusted frames (steel doesn't "rot) right here in AZ. My 98 Tacoma [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > utterly worthless offroad. They do not hold their value and quality > is nonexistent. Well I am not in Az. I am in NC and have a small farm. I know plenty of big farmers with 20+ year old Ford that are still going strong. One of my neighbors uses his to haul cattle trailers on a regular basis. I've also seen him use it to pull a loaded fertilizer car around on a plowed field (you should try that with your Tacoma). I kept my 1992 F150 for 14 years and it never gave me any significant trouble. It is currently being used by the local water meter reader and seems to be holding up just fine. I don't know how you define quality, but to me, my old F150 was about as good as it gets. Ed > Well I am not in Az. I am in NC and have a small farm. I know plenty > of big farmers with 20+ year old Ford that are still going strong. One [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > holding up just fine. I don't know how you define quality, but to me, > my old F150 was about as good as it gets. You problem is so typical of the people who engage in similar diatribes. Yeah your 20 year old Ford may be great for hauling 15,000 pounds of hot horse sh.t around but there are other uses for trucks aren't there? I'd like to see your 20 year old Ford try to shoehorn itself down (or up) some of the mountain goat trails we have here in AZ. I can tell you right now your 20 year old Ford wouldn't get ten feet down half of them. Too wide. Too tall. Too heavy. Fine for hauling all that horse sh.t but not a capable offroad vehicle. BTW, does Ford market their trucks as "light duty" like GM does (or at least did), meaning great for parking lot posing but not good for anything else...... Gotta love that Amerikan customer service, too. If there's a frame rust issue with Tacomas, Toyota extends the warranty and offers a decent buy back. What would GM or Ford do? Let you watch it rust in your drive way. And don't tell me Amerikan made vehicles don't rust. You'll get your a.s laughed off the Internet. > You problem is so typical of the people who engage in similar > diatribes. Yeah your 20 year old Ford may be great for hauling [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > heavy. Fine for hauling all that horse sh.t but not a capable > offroad vehicle. Duh, what are trucks for if not for hauling? For me personally, turning some beat to crap Tacoma into a rock crawler is a waste of time and money. Seems like a good way to ruin a truck to me. And you don't want to get me started on jerks who use their cool off road play toys to tear up other peoples land. I assume you are crawling over rocks on public land where it is permitted and I could care less. But I get tired of idiot boys in their reduced function trucks deciding my fields are the perfect proving grounds for their useless junk. > BTW, does Ford market their trucks as "light duty" like GM does (or > at least did), meaning great for parking lot posing but not good for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > your drive way. And don't tell me Amerikan made vehicles don't rust. > You'll get your a.s laughed off the Internet. Ths its total BS. Toyota fights recalls tooth and nail . The usual Toyota reaction to a design / manufacturing screw ups is to 1) deny there is a problem, 2) when presented with evidence of a massive problem, claim the data is wrong, 3) lie about the cause of the problem, 4) blame the Customer, 5) lie some more, 6) blame the Customer again, 7) just before NHTSA is set to issue a mandatory recall, announce a "voluntary" recall, but say it is really the Customers fault and they are only doing it becasue they are so nice, 8) if necessary, blame a supplier. Look at the history of the truck ball joint recall, or this latest floor mat thing, or the rusting frame problem, or the engine sludge problem. Toyota PR spends more time blaiming Customers than actually trying to get to the bottom of problems. Of all the car companies in the US, Toyota is the most aggressive at fighting off recalls. I don't understand all the Toyota apologists who turn a blind eye to Toyota's many failuings. I am not saying Toyota is unique in having problems, they are not. The biggest difference between Toyota and, say GM, is that in the past Toyota ironed out many of their defect before selling vehicles in the US. Now that many Toyota vehicles are US specific, or introduced in the US at the same time as in the rest of the world, we are now seeing many of the Toyota defects. However, Toyota, more so than other manufacturers, tries to cover up these defects. Partial List of Recent Pickup Truck Investigations: PE09049 TOYOTA TUNDRA 2001 SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC:FOUNDATION COMPONENTS:DIFFERENTIAL PROPORTIONAL VALVE TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION 20091006 FRAME CORROSION THE OFFICE OF DEFECTS INVESTIGATION HAS RECEIVED 20 REPORTS ON THE SUBJECT VEHICLES THAT RELATE TO SPARE TIRE SEPARATION AND BRAKE SYSTEM FAILURES AS A RESULT OF SEVERE FRAME CORROSION.THERE HAVE BEEN 15 REPORTS ALLEGING THE UNDER BODY MOUNTED SPARE TIRE SEPARATED FROM THE REAR CROSSMEMBER AND FIVE REPORTS ALLEGING BROKEN BRAKE LINES AT THE PROPORTIONING VALVE LOCATED ON THE DRIVER'S SIDE OF THE REAR CROSSMEMBER AT THE UPPER SHOCK MOUNT. DP08001 TOYOTA TACOMA 2007 VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL:ACCELERATOR PEDAL TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION 20080131 20080827 SUDDEN AND UNCONTROLLED ACCELERATION THE PETITIONER OWNS A MODEL YEAR (MY) 2006 TOYOTA TACOMA EQUIPPED WITH A V6 ENGINE AND AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION.IN A PETITION SENT TO NHTSA'S OFFICE OF DEFECTS INVESTIGATION (ODI) DATED JANUARY 10, 2008, HE ALLEGES HE EXPERIENCED TWO INCIDENTS OF UNWANTED ACCELERATION WHILE DRIVING HIS TACOMA.THE PETITIONER REPORTED THAT DURING BOTH INCIDENTS, WHILE APPLYING THE BRAKE, THE ENGINE SPEED INCREASED OF ITS OWN ACCORD (WITHOUT ACCELERATOR APPLICATION), CAUSING SUDDEN AND UNCONTROLLED ACCELERATION.THE PETITIONER REQUESTED THAT THE AGENCY COMMENCE A PROCEEDING TO DETERMINE THE EXISTENCE OF A DEFECT RELATED TO MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY INVOLVING THE ELECTRONICALLY ACTUATED THROTTLE CONTROL SYSTEM.ODI REVIEWED THE PETITION, ASSESSED VOQS, INTERVIEWED PERSONS WHO FILED VOQS, TESTED THE VEHICLE, AND REVIEWED TOYOTA'S RESPONSE TO AN AGENCY INFORMATION REQUEST.THE COMPLAINTS FELL INTO THREE GROUPS.A MAJORITY OF THE COMPLAINTS MAY HAVE INVOLVED THE TACOMA'S THROTTLE CONTROL SYSTEM.SOME COMPLAINTS DID NOT INVOLVE A FAILURE OF THE THROTTLE CONTROL SYSTEM.FOR THE REMAINING REPORTS, ALTHOUGH THERE MAY HAVE BEEN AN ISSUE WITH THE THROTTLE CONTROL SYSTEM AS ONE POSSIBLE EXPLANATION, WE HAVE BEEN UNABLE TO DETERMINE A CAUSE RELATED TO THROTTLE CONTROL OR ANY UNDERLYING CAUSE THAT GAVE RISE TO THE COMPLAINT.FOR THOSE VEHICLES WHERE THE THROTTLE CONTROL SYSTEM DID NOT PERFORM AS THE OWNER BELIEVES IT SHOULD HAVE, THE INFORMATION SUGGESTING A POSSIBLE DEFECT RELATED TO MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY IS QUITE LIMITED.ADDITIONAL INVESTIGATION IS UNLIKELY TO RESULT IN A FINDING THAT A DEFECT RELATED TO MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY EXISTS OR A NHTSA ORDER FOR THE NOTIFICATION AND REMEDY OF A SAFETY-RELATED DEFECT AS REQUESTED BY THE PETITIONER.THEREFORE, IN VIEW OF THE NEED TO ALLOCATE AND PRIORITIZE NHTSA'S LIMITED RESOURCES TO BEST ACCOMPLISH THE AGENCY'S SAFETY MISSION, THE PETITION IS DENIED.PLEASE SEE THEFEDERAL REGISTER NOTICE FOR FURTHER DETAILS. EA97015 TOYOTA TACOMA 1996 EXTERIOR LIGHTING TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 19970722 19980921 TURN SIGNAL FAILURES ALLEGED LEFT AND RIGHT TURN SIGNAL FUNCTIONS FAIL WHILE DRIVING. EA04024 TOYOTA TUNDRA 2002 SUSPENSION:FRONT:CONTROL ARM TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 20040820 20050708 05V225000 BALL JOINT SEPARATION ODI RECEIVED 3 CONSUMER REPORTS OF ALLEGED BALL JOINT SEPARATION ON MY 2002 TUNDRA VEHICLES.THE COMPLAINTS ALLEGE THAT A FRONT SUSPENSION BALL JOINT SEPARATED WHILE DRIVING, WHICH CAUSED THE SUSPENSION TO COLLAPSE AND RESULTED IN A LOSS OF VEHICLE CONTROL.BASED ON THESE COMPLAINTS, ODI OPENED PE02-040 AND LATER UPGRADED TO EA04-024 FOR MY 2002 TUNDRA VEHICLES.DURING EA04-024, ADDITIONAL FAILURE DATA WAS IDENTIFIED AS NOTED IN THE FAILURE REPORT SUMMARY ABOVE. ON MAY 16, 2005, TOYOTA NOTIFIED NHTSA OF A SAFETY DEFECT ON MY 2002-2004 TUNDRA AND SEQUOIA VEHICLES (PRODUCED BETWEEN AUGUST 1, 2001 AND SEPTEMBER 30, 2003), MY 2001-2004 TACOMA VEHICLES (PRODUCED BETWEEN JULY 31, 2001 AND DECEMBER 23, 2003), AND MY 2001-2002 4RUNNER VEHICLES (PRODUCED BETWEEN MAY 22, 2001 AND AUGUST 23, 2002).THE NOTIFICATION STATED THAT DUE TO A MANUFACTURING ISSUE WITH THE FRONT SUSPENSION LOWER BALL JOINTS (WHICH CONNECT THE LOWER CONTROL ARMS TO THE STEERING KNUCKLES OF THE FRONT WHEELS) THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT THE SURFACE OF THE BALL OF THE JOINT MAY HAVE BEEN SCRATCHED.SUCH SCRATCHES MAY RESULT IN SIGNIFICANTLY ACCELERATED WEAR OF THE JOINT. ACCORDING TO TOYOTA, IF THE [SUBJECT] VEHICLE IS OPERATED FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME IN THIS CONDITION, THE BALL JOINT MAY EVENTUALLY EXPERIENCE EXCESSIVE WEAR AND LOOSENESS, RESULTING IN INCREASED STEERING EFFORT, REDUCED VEHICLE SELF-CENTERING, AND NOISE IN THE FRONT SUSPENSION.IN EXTREME CASES, WHEN THE DRIVER CONTINUES TO OPERATE THE VEHICLE IN THIS CONDITION, THE LOWER BALL JOINT MAY SEPARATE FROM THE KNUCKLE CAUSING A LOSS OF VEHICLE STEERING CONTROL. TOYOTA WILL INSTRUCT OWNERS TO RETURN THEIR VEHICLES TO ANY TOYOTA DEALER FOR REPLACEMENT OF THE FRONT SUSPENSION LOWER BALL JOINTS.ODI WILL MONITOR THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE REMEDY AND TAKE FURTHER ACTION IF WARRANTED. Partial List of Recent Pickup Truck Recalls (most of these recalls apply to more years / models than listed - I only included one copy of each recall notice. THe NHTSA database list the same recall repeatedly for the different models / years): 4806 05V254000 TOYOTA TUNDRA 2004 70A AIR BAGS:ON-OFF SWITCH ASSEMBLY TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 20020903 20050422 V 156111 20070112 MFR TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 20050602 20050606 571 225 CERTAIN PICKUP TRUCKS FAIL TO COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARD NO. 225, 'CHILD RESTRAINT ANCHORAGE SYSTEMS.' THESE VEHICLES HAVE A MANUAL AIR BAG ON-OFF SWITCH TO DISABLE THE FRONT PASSENGER AIR BAG AND DO NOT HAVE A CHILD RESTRAINT LOWER ANCHORAGE SYSTEM IN THE FRONT PASSENGER SEAT. THIS SPECIFICATION DOES NOT MEET THE STANDARD REQUIREMENTS. THIS STANDARD ESTABLISHES REQUIREMENTS FOR CHILD RESTRAINT ANCHORAGE SYSTEMS TO ENSURE THEIR PROPER LOCATION AND STRENGTH FOR THE EFFECTIVE SECURING OF CHILD RESTRAINTS, TO REDUCE THE LIKELIHOOD OF THE ANCHORAGE SYSTEMS' FAILURE, AND TO INCREASE THE LIKELIHOOD THAT CHILD RESTRAINTS ARE PROPERLY SECURED AND THUS MORE FULLY ACHIEVE THEIR POTENTIAL EFFECTIVENESS IN MOTOR VEHICLES. DEALERS WILL REMOVE THE MANUAL AIR BAG ON-OFF SWITCH, REPLACE THE OWNER'S MANUAL, AND AFFIX A NEW SUN VISOR AIR BAG WARNING LABEL. THE RECALL BEGAN IN EARLY JANUARY 2007. OWNERS MAY CONTACT TOYOTA AT 1-800-331-4331. TOYOTA RECALL NO. 70A.CUSTOMERS CAN ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION¿S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV. 000022038000111982000000261 5039 08E029000 SOUTHEAST TOYOTA TUNDRA 2007 WHEELS:LUGS/NUTS/BOLTS SOUTHEAST TOYOTA DISTRIBUTORS E 216 20080421 MFR SOUTHEAST TOYOTA DISTRIBUTORS 20080331 20080403 SOUTHEAST TOYOTA IS RECALLING ALLOY WHEEL LUG NUTS USED FOR THE 18" DIAMOND FINISH 5-SPOKE ALLOY WHEELS AND 20" PAINTED ALLOY WHEELS WITH 6-DUAL SPOKES SOLD AS AN UPGRADE PACKAGE FOR 2007 TOYOTA TUNDRA MODEL VEHICLES. THE WHEEL NUTS CAN CRACK AND BREAK IF THE WHEELS ARE NOT INSTALLED CAREFULLY OR NOT CAREFULLY TIGHTENED. THIS WHEEL NUT CONDITION COULD OCCUR AT THE TIME OF WHEEL INSTALLATION, TIRE ROTATION, OR SERVICE. CRACKED OR BROKEN WHEEL NUTS COULD RESULT IN A VEHICLE CRASH. SOUTHEAST TOYOTA WILL NOTIFY OWNERS AND REPLACE THE WHEEL NUTS WITH A MORE ROBUST WHEEL NUT FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL BEGAN ON APRIL 21, 2008. OWNERS MAY CONTACT SOUTHEAST TOYOTA CUSTOMER LOYALTY DEPARTMENT TOLL-FREE AT 800-301-6859. CUSTOMERS MAY CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY: 1-800-424-9153); OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV. 000026400000357626000000312 10930 00V103000 GULF TOYOTA TUNDRA 2000 TRAILER HITCHES GULF STATES TOYOTA, INC. 19990401 20000321 V 7000 20000609 MFR GULF STATES TOYOTA, INC. 20000407 20000428 VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PICKUP TRUCKS EQUIPPED WITH A TEKONSHA TRAILER HITCH WIRING HARNESS AND CONVERTER AND DISTRIBUTED BY GULF STATES TOYOTA (TEXAS, OKLAHOMA, LOUISIANA, ARKANSAS, AND MISSISSIPPI). AN ELECTRICAL SHORT CIRCUIT CAN OCCUR IF WATER ENTERS THE CONVERTER HOUSING. THIS SHORT CIRCUIT COULD CAUSE A FAILURE OF THE CONVERTER, AND IF A TRAILER IS BEING TOWED AT THE TIME, CAN ALSO CAUSE INOPERATIVE TRAILER LIGHTS. THIS RECALL HAS BEEN SUPERSEDED BY RECALL NO. 02V-050. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN JUNE 9, 2000.OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT GULF STATES TOYOTA AT 1-800-444-1074.ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236). 000010453000089175000000316 16033 02V050000 GULF TOYOTA TUNDRA 2001 TRAILER HITCHES GULF STATES TOYOTA, INC. 19990401 20020204 V 8609 20020422 MFR GULF STATES TOYOTA, INC. 20020211 20020305 CERTAIN PICKUP TRUCKS EQUIPPED WITH A TEKONSHA TRAILER HITCH WIRING HARNESS AND CONVERTER AND DISTRIBUTED BY GULF STATES TOYOTA (TEXAS, OKLAHOMA, LOUISIANA, ARKANSAS, AND MISSISSIPPI). THE CIRCUITRY USED IN THE CONVERTER, WHICH IS INADEQUATE TO MANAGE PROPERLY VEHICLE AND/OR TRAILER-SIDE VOLTAGE SPIKES. IF THE CONVERTER IS EXPOSED TO A VOLTAGE SPIKE, IT COULD CAUSE AN ELECTRICAL SHORT OR OPEN CIRCUIT WITHIN THE CONVERTER. THIS SHORT CIRCUIT COULD CAUSE A FAILURE OF THE CONVERTER, AND IF A TRAILER IS BEING TOWED AT THE TIME, CAN ALSO CAUSE INOPERATIVE TRAILER LIGHTS. DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE WIRE HARNESS AND CONVERTER. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN APRIL 22, 2002. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT GULF STATES TOYOTA AT 1-800-444-1074. ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236). 000014755000093220000000316 20736 02V129000 SOUTHEAST TOYOTA TUNDRA 2001 WHEELS SOUTHEAST TOYOTA DISTRIBUTORS 20020520 V 3041 20020715 MFR SOUTHEAST TOYOTA DISTRIBUTORS 20020501 20020514 ON CERTAIN 4X2 VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH AN ALLOY WHEEL TIRE UPGRADE (OPTIONS WM4, WM8, ZL1-ZL4, DH4, OR DH5) INSTALLED BY THE PROCESSING CENTERS IN JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA OR COMMERCE, GEORGIA, A LABEL IDENTIFYING THE SPARE TIRE AS A TEMPORARY USE SPARE TIRE WAS NOT INSTALLED. THE UPGRADE INCLUDES 4 LARGER SIZE TIRES WITH ALLOY WHEELS. THE ORIGINAL SPARE TIRE/STEEL WHEEL IS NOT PART OF THE UPGRADE AND WAS NOT CHANGED. DIFFERENT OPERATING CHARACTERISTICS CAN BE EXPERIENCED WHEN THE SPARE TIRE IS INSTALLED ON THE VEHICLE. OWNERS WILL BE PROVIDED WITH A CAUTION LABEL AND AN INSERT FOR THEIR OWNER'S MANUAL. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN JULY 15, 2002. OWNERS WHO DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT SOUTHEAST TOYOTA AT 1-800-301-6859. CUSTOMERS CAN ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236). 000014890000106044000000309 28020 07V013000 TOYOTA TUNDRA 2004 70B SUSPENSION:FRONT:CONTROL ARM:LOWER BALL JOINT TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 20030815 20061117 V 533124 20070228 ODI TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION 20070119 20070119 ON CERTAIN TRUCKS AND MINI VANS, DUE TO POSSIBLE IMPROPER FINISHING OF THE FRONT SUSPENSION LOWER BALL JOINT, SOME BALL JOINTS MAY EXPERIENCE AN INCIDENTAL DETERIORATION OF THE INTERNAL LUBRICATION. THIS MAY CAUSE THE BALL JOINT TO WEAR AND LOOSEN PREMATURELY, WHICH COULD RESULT IN INCREASED STEERING EFFORT, REDUCED VEHICLE SELF-CENTERING, AND NOISE IN THE FRONT SUSPENSION. IN EXTREME CASES, IF THE VEHICLE IS CONTINUOUSLY OPERATED IN THIS CONDITION, THE LOWER BALL JOINT MAY SEPARATE FROM THE KNUCKLE AND COULD CAUSE A LOSS OF VEHICLE CONTROL. DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE FRONT SUSPENSION LOWER BALL JOINTS. THE RECALL BEGAN ON FEBRUARY 28, 2007. OWNERS MAY CONTACT TOYOTA AT 1-800-331-4331. TOYOTA RECALL NO. 70B.CUSTOMERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV. 000023188000216308000000041 37843 08V080000 SOUTHEAST TOYOTA TUNDRA 2007 WHEELS:LUGS/NUTS/BOLTS SOUTHEAST TOYOTA DISTRIBUTORS V 1716 20080418 MFR SOUTHEAST TOYOTA DISTRIBUTORS 20080225 20080225 SOUTHEAST TOYOTA IS RECALLING 1,555 MY 2007 TUNDRA VEHICLES DUE TO A WHEEL NUT ISSUE. THE RECALLED VEHICLES ARE MY 2007 TUNDRAS EQUIPPED WITH 18" INSTALLED DIAMOND FINISH 5-SPOKE ALLOY WHEELS (OPTION CODE WN1 OR WN4) OR 20" INSTALLED PAINTED ALLOY WHEELS WITH 6 DUAL SPOKES (OPTION CODE WV1 OR WV4). AFFECTED VEHICLES WERE ORIGINALLY SOLD IN FLORIDA, GEORGIA, ALABAMA, NORTH CAROLINA OR SOUTH CAROLINA. WHEN THE VEHICLE WAS PROCESSED AT THE PORT, THE UPGRADED ALLOY WHEELS WERE FASTENED WITH NEW WHEEL NUTS. THE WHEEL NUTS CAN CRACK AND BREAK IF THEY ARE NOT INSTALLED CAREFULLY OR NOT CAREFULLY TIGHTENED. THIS WHEEL NUT CONDITION COULD OCCUR AT THE TIME OF WHEEL INSTALLATION, TIRE ROTATION, OR SERVICE. IF A VEHICLE'S WHEEL HAS A CRACKED OR BROKEN WHEEL NUT CONDITION AND THE WHEEL BECOMES LOOSE AND FALLS OFF THE VEHICLE WITHOUT WARNING, A CRASH COULD OCCUR. DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE ATTACHING WHEEL NUTS. THE RECALL BEGAN ON APRIL 18, 2008. OWNERS MAY CONTACT SOUTHEAST TOYOTA AT 1-800-301-6859. CUSTOMERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV. 000026111000357626000000312 38878 09V388000 TOYOTA TUNDRA 2007 VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL:ACCELERATOR PEDAL TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION V 3800000 20091008 MFR TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION 20091005 20091006 TOYOTA IS RECALLING CERTAIN MODEL YEAR 2004-2010 PASSENGER VEHICLES. THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL CAN GET STUCK IN THE WIDE OPEN POSITION DUE TO ITS BEING TRAPPED BY AN UNSECURED OR INCOMPATIBLE DRIVER'S FLOOR MAT. A STUCK OPEN ACCELERATOR PEDAL MAY RESULT IN VERY HIGH VEHICLE SPEEDS AND MAKE IT DIFFICULT TO STOP THE VEHICLE, WHICH COULD CAUSE A CRASH, SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH. TOYOTA WILL NOTIFY OWNERS OF AFFECTED VEHICLES TO REMOVE ANY DRIVER'S FLOOR MAT AND NOT REPLACE IT WITH ANY OTHER FLOOR MAT PENDING THE DEVELOPMENT OF MODEL-SPECIFIC REMEDIES. TOYOTA WILL MAIL A SECOND NOTIFICATION TO OWNERS OF AFFECTED VEHICLES NOTIFYING THEM OF THE FREE REMEDIES WHEN THEY ARE AVAILABLE. THE FIRST NOTICE IS EXPECTED TO BE MAILED DURING OCTOBER 2009 AND TOYOTA WILL ADVISE NHTSA OF THE ESTIMATED DATE WHEN THE REMEDIES WILL BE AVAILABLE. OWNERS MAY CONTACT TOYOTA AT 1-800-331-4331, LEXUS AT 1-800-255-3987. OWNERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO <A HREF=HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV>HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV</A> . 000033638000222026000000295 49208 01E041000 TOYOTA TRAILER HARNESS CONVERTER 9999 TRAILER HITCHES TOYOTA MOTOR CO., LTD. E 70717 20010827 MFR TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 20010801 20010809 EQUIPMENT DESCRIPTION: THIS RECALL IS FOR TRAILER TOWING WIRE HARNESS CONVERTERS INSTALLED BY DEALERS OR FOR INSTALLATION ON 1999-2000 TOYOTA TUNDRA AND TACOMA VEHICLES. THE CONNECTORS INTEGRATE THE VEHICLE'S TAIL LIGHTS, BRAKE LIGHTS, AND TURN SIGNAL LIGHTS WITH THOSE EQUIPPED ON THE TRAILER, ARE DEFECTIVE. AFFECTED PART NUMBERS ARE: PT207-34000, PT207-34002, PT207-04981, AND PT214-04985. IN THE TUNDRA VEHICLES, THE CIRCUITRY UTILIZED IN THE CONVERTER WAS INADEQUATE TO PROPERLY MANAGE VEHICLE AND/OR TRAILER-SIDE VOLTAGE SPIKES. IF THE CONVERTER IS EXPOSED TO A VOLTAGE SPIKE, IT MAY CAUSE AN ELECTRICAL SHORT OR OPEN CIRCUIT WITHIN THE CONVERTER. IN THE TACOMA VEHICLES, DUE TO DEFICIENT WATERPROOFING AND IMPROPER INSTALLATION LOCATION OF THE CONVERTER, WHICH IS MOUNTED IN THE LOWER PORTION OF THE TAILGATE CAVITY OF THE VEHICLE, AN ELECTRICAL SHORT CIRCUIT WILL OCCUR IF WATER ENTERS THE CONVERTER HOUSING. AN ELECTRICAL SHORT OR OPEN CIRCUIT CAN CAUSE A FAULT IN THE CONVERTER AND A NON-OPERATIONAL CONDITION OF THE TRAILER LIGHTS. IF THE VEHICLE IS DRIVEN WITHOUT TRAILER LIGHTS, IT MAY BE DIFFICULT FOR OTHER DRIVERS TO SEE THE TRAILER, INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH. DEALERS WILL NOTIFY THE CUSTOMERS AND INSTALL A REDESIGNED TRAILER TOWING WIRE HARNESS CONVERTER FREE OF CHARGE. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN AUGUST 27, 2001. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT TOYOTA AT 1-800-331-4331. ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236). 000013997000101205000000316 56213 05V225000 TOYOTA TUNDRA 2002 50J SUSPENSION:FRONT:CONTROL ARM:LOWER BALL JOINT TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 20010801 20030930 V 768379 20050705 ODI TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 20050517 20050517 ON CERTAIN SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES, DUE TO A MANUFACTURING ISSUE IN THE FRONT SUSPENSION LOWER BALL JOINT, THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT THE SURFACE OF THE BALL OF THE JOINT MAY HAVE BEEN SCRATCHED. THE BALL JOINT MAY EVENTUALLY EXPERIENCE EXCESSIVE WEAR AND LOOSENESS, RESULTING IN INCREASED STEERING EFFORT. THE LOWER BALL JOINT MAY SEPARATE FROM THE KNUCKLE CAUSING LOSS OF STEERING CONTROL AND A CRASH COULD OCCUR. DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE FRONT SUSPENSION LOWER BALL JOINTS FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL BEGAN ON JULY 5, 2005. OWNERS MAY CONTACT TOYOTA AT 1-800-331-4331. TOYOTA RECALL NO. 50J.CUSTOMERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV. 000022000000097919000000041 56688 05E077000 TOYOTA 20" ALLOY WHEEL 9999 WHEELS:LUGS/NUTS/BOLTS TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. E 22 20051122 MFR TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 20051222 20051202 CERTAIN TOYOTA TUNDRA AND SEQUOIA TRUCKS EQUIPPED WITH TOYOTA RACING DEVELOPMENT (TRD) 20" ALLOY WHEELS SOLD AND INSTALLED BY TOYOTA DEALERS AS AN AFTERMARKET ACCESSORY WHEEL. DUE TO A MANUFACTURING ERROR, THE LUG-NUT HOLES WERE NOT MACHINED TO THE APPROPRIATE SPECIFICATION WHICH WILL REDUCE THREAD ENGAGEMENT. THESE WHEELS MAY NOT MAINTAIN THE APPROPRIATE TORQUE SPECIFICATION REQUIRED SECURING THE WHEEL TO THE VEHICLE. THIS MAY EVENTUALLY LEAD TO WHEEL FAILURE AND POSSIBLY RESULT IN A VEHICLE CRASH. ALL SIX VEHICLE OWNERS HAVE BEEN CONTACTED BY TELEPHONE AND INSTRUCTED TO RETURN THEIR VEHICLES TO THEIR DEALER FOR REPLACEMENT OF THE TRD ACCESSORY 20" ALLOY WHEELS WITH CORRECTED ONES FREE OF CHARGE. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT TOYOTA AT 1-800-331-4331. CUSTOMERS MAY CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236; (TTY: 1-800-424-9153); OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV. 000022469000214892000000312 58201 07V579000 TOYOTA TUNDRA 2007 70G POWER TRAIN:DRIVELINE:DRIVESHAFT TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 20061109 20070803 V 15616 20080107 MFR TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION 20071218 20071218 ON CERTAIN 4-WHEEL DRIVE PICKUP TRUCKS, DUE TO THE IMPROPER HEAT TREATMENT OF THE SLIP YOKES THAT HAD BEEN REWORKED DURING THE MANUFACTURING PROCESS, THE HARDNESS OF THE SLIP YOKE MAY BE INSUFFICIENT. IN THIS CONDITION, THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT THE YOKE MAY BREAK CAUSING THE PROPELLER SHAFT TO SEPARATE AT THE JOINT AND COME INTO CONTACT WITH THE ROAD SURFACE OR THE FUEL TANK WHICH COULD RESULT IN A LOSS OF VEHICLE CONTROL OR A FUEL LEAK. DEALERS WILL INSPECT THE SLIP YOKE AND REPLACE THE PROPELLER SHAFT IF NECESSARY FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL BEGAN ON JANUARY 7, 2008. OWNERS MAY CONTACT TOYOTA AT 1-800-331-4331. TOYOTA RECALL NO. 70G.CUSTOMERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION¿S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV. 000025636000222026000000192 60135 99V347003 TOYOTA TUNDRA 2000 SSC Y01 EXTERIOR LIGHTING:TAIL LIGHTS TOYOTA MOTOR CO., LTD. 19990204 19990730 V 16472 20000225 ODI TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 20000118 20000203 VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: LIGHT DUTY TRUCKS. THE TAIL LIGHT SOCKET MAY HAVE BEEN IMPROPERLY MOLDED, RESULTING IN THE LOCKING TAB HAVING INSUFFICIENT FORCE TO RETAIN THE BULB. IF THE BULB FALLS OUT OF THE SOCKET, THE BRAKE OR TAIL LAMP FUNCTION CANNOT OCCUR. DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE TAIL LAMP SOCKETS. TOYOTA RECALL NO. SSC Y01.OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN FEBRUARY 25, 2000.OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT TOYOTA AT 1-800-331-4331. ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236). 000010052000086732000000223 70203 09V223000 TOYOTA TUNDRA 2008 EQUIPMENT:OTHER:LABELS TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 20050901 20090504 V 27080 20090918 OVSC TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION 20090615 20090615 571 110 TOYOTA IS RECALLING 27,080 MODEL YEAR 2009 AND 2010 PASSENGER CARS BUILT FROM JUNE 2, 2008 TO MAY 4, 2009. THESE VEHICLES WERE NOT EQUIPPED WITH LOAD CARRYING CAPACITY MODIFICATION LABELS WHICH FAILS TO CONFORM WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARD NO. 110, "TIRE SELECTION AND RIMS." INCORRECT LOAD CARRYING CAPACITY MODIFICATION LABELS COULD RESULT IN THE VEHICLE BEING OVERLOADED, INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH. TOYOTA WILL NOTIFY OWNERS AND PROVIDE THEM WITH A NEW, ACCURATE LABEL TO BE INSTALLED OVER THE INACCURATE LABEL FREE OF CHARGE. THE SAFETY RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN ON OR ABOUT AUGUST 31, 2009. OWNERS MAY CONTACT TOYOTA AT 1-888-270-9371. OWNERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO <A HREF=HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV>HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV</A> . 000031939000360681000000349 77183 05V123000 TOYOTA TUNDRA 2005 50E ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:EXHAUST SYSTEM TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 20030801 20041222 V 5726 20050531 MFR TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 20050330 20050330 CERTAIN PICKUP TRUCKS EQUIPPED WITH BOTH VEHICLE STABILITY CONTROL (VSC) AND THE TRD DUAL EXHAUST SYSTEMS. THE TRD DUAL EXHAUST SYSTEM MET ALL CLEARANCE SPECIFICATIONS ON MODELS WITHOUT VSC, HOWEVER THE DRIVER'S SIDE EXHAUST LOCATED IN A POSITION WHERE CONTACT BETWEEN A BRAKE LINE FOUND ONLY ON VEHICLES WITH VSC AND THE TRD EXHAUST PIPE MIGHT OCCUR. IN THIS CONDITION, THE EXHAUST PIPE FLANGE MAY RUB AGAINST THE RIGHT REAR BRAKE LINE, WHICH COULD CAUSE BRAKE FLUID LEAKAGE. THIS COULD LEAD TO AN INCREASE OF VEHICLE STOPPING DISTANCE, WHICH COULD RESULT IN A CRASH. DEALERS WILL INSPECT AND, IF SO EQUIPPED, WILL REPLACE THE TRD DUAL EXHAUST SYSTEM FREE OF CHARGE. DURING THIS REPLACEMENT, THE DEALER WILL ALSO INSPECT THE SPECIFIC BRAKE LINE TO ASSURE IT HAS NOT BEEN DAMAGED AND REPLACE IT IF NECESSARY. THE RECALL BEGAN ON MAY 31, 2005. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT TOYOTA AT 1-800-331-4331. TOYOTA RECALL NO. 50E.CUSTOMERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV. 000021874000115015000000138 77330 05V328000 TOYOTA TUNDRA 2005 50K AIR BAGS:FRONTAL TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 20050422 20050629 V 2527 20050805 MFR TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 20050720 20050721 571 208 CERTAIN PICKUP TRUCKS EQUIPPED WITH AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS AND OPTIONAL FABRIC FRONT CAPTAIN'S CHAIRS FAIL TO COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARD NO. 208, 'OCCUPANT CRASH PROTECTION.' THESE VEHICLES WERE BUILT WITH AN INCORRECT FRONT PASSENGER OCCUPANT CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM INDICATOR LIGHT LENS WHICH WILL NOT DISPLAY THE STATUS OF THE FRONT PASSENGER AIR BAG. AS A RESULT, THE VEHICLE OCCUPANTS WILL NOT BE MADE AWARE OF WHETHER OR NOT THE AIR BAG IS ACTIVATED AND READY TO PROTECT THE OCCUPANT AS APPROPRIATE. DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE FRONT PASSENGER OCCUPANT CLASSIFICATION SYSTEM INDICATOR LENS. THE RECALL BEGAN AUGUST 5, 2005. OWNERS MAY CONTACT TOYOTA AT 1-800-331-4331. TOYOTA RECALL NO. 50K.CUSTOMERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION¿S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236; (TTY: 1-800-424-9153); OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV. 000022141000115015000000257 4333 96V129000 TOYOTA TACOMA 1996 SUSPENSION:FRONT TOYOTA MOTOR CO., LTD. V 90000 19960906 MFR TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 19960710 19960715 UNDER CERTAIN DRIVING CONDITIONS, THE FRONT SUSPENSION SUPPORT CAN CRACK LEADING TO FAILURE OF THE SUPPORT. THIS CONDITION CAN RESULT IN LOSS OF VEHICLE CONTROL. DEALERS WILL REPAIR THE SUSPENSION SUPPORT. SYSTEM: SUSPENSION; INDEPENDENT; FRONT. VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: LIGHT DUTY PICKUP TRUCK. OWNER NOTIFICATION: OWNER NOTIFICATION IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN IN LATE AUGUST 1996. NOTE: OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT TOYOTA AT 1-800-331-4331. ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-800-424-9393. 000007849000070722000000023 4699 03V189000 TOYOTA TACOMA 2002 SSC 30H FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE:DELIVERY:HOSES, LINES/PIPING, AND FITTINGS TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 20000919 20030227 V 123360 20030603 MFR TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 20030519 20030522 ON CERTAIN PICKUP TRUCKS, DURING SIDE IMPACT NCAP TEST (I.E. LINCAP TEST), A FLANGE AT THE REAR END OF THE DOUBLE CAB BODY DEFORMED AND INTERFERED WITH THE FUEL INLET HOSE THAT CONNECTS THE FUEL FILLER PIPE AND FUEL TANK, RESULTING IN DAMAGE TO THE FUEL INLET HOSE. THIS DAMAGE COULD RESULT IN FUEL LEAKAGE, WHICH COULD RESULT IN A FIRE IF IN THE PRESENCE OF AN IGNITION SOURCE. DEALERS WILL INSTALL A FUEL HOSE PROTECTOR ON THE BODY FLANGE. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN JUNE 3, 2003. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT TOYOTA AT 1-800-331-4331. TOYOTA RECALL NO.SSC 30H.CUSTOMERS CAN ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION¿S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236). 000020373000097358000000153 8189 98V188000 TOYOTA TACOMA 1998 AIR BAGS:ON-OFF SWITCH ASSEMBLY TOYOTA MOTOR CO., LTD. 19980119 19980806 V 84323 19981116 MFR TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 19980806 19980817 571 208 VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES. THE STATEMENT REQUIRED IN THE OWNER'S MANUAL THAT "...THE ON-OFF SWITCH SHOULD ONLY BEN USED WHEN A MEMBER OF A PASSENGER RISK GROUP IDENTIFIED IN THE REQUEST FORM IN APPENDIX B......IS OCCUPYING THE RIGHT FRONT PASSENGER SEATING POSITION..." IS MIS-STATED. THIS DOES NOT COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF FMVSS 208, "OCCUPANT CRASH PROTECTION." IF THE AIR BAG SWITCH IS "OFF," THE SEAT OCCUPANT WHO IS NOT A MEMBER OF THE PASSENGER RISK GROUP WOULD BE SUBJECT TO INCREASED INJURY IN THE EVENT OF A VEHICLE CRASH. OWNERS WILL BE SENT A CORRECTED OWNER'S MANUAL. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN NOVEMBER 16, 1998.OWNERS WHO DO NOT RECEIVE THE CORRECTED OWNER'S MANUAL WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT TOYOTA AT 1-800-331-4331.ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236). 000008765000078620000000261 5911 03V189000 TOYOTA TACOMA 2001 SSC 30H FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE:DELIVERY:HOSES, LINES/PIPING, AND FITTINGS TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 20000919 20030227 V 123360 20030603 MFR TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC. 20030519 20030522 ON CERTAIN PICKUP TRUCKS, DURING SIDE IMPACT NCAP TEST (I.E. LINCAP TEST), A FLANGE AT THE REAR END OF THE DOUBLE CAB BODY DEFORMED AND INTERFERED WITH THE FUEL INLET HOSE THAT CONNECTS THE FUEL FILLER PIPE AND FUEL TANK, RESULTING IN DAMAGE TO THE FUEL INLET HOSE. THIS DAMAGE COULD RESULT IN FUEL LEAKAGE, WHICH COULD RESULT IN A FIRE IF IN THE PRESENCE OF AN IGNITION SOURCE. DEALERS WILL INSTALL A FUEL HOSE PROTECTOR ON THE BODY FLANGE. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN JUNE 3, 2003. OWNERS WHO TAKE THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT TOYOTA AT 1-800-331-4331. TOYOTA RECALL NO.SSC 30H.CUSTOMERS CAN ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION¿S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236). 000020373000092516000000153 That sure was a lot of data in your last message. But there's still some important data missing. You still can't show data which indicates how many people buy trucks "just to have", vs those who buy them because of their work. That data would also need to be broken down by brand. You've made claims which require this data in order to be believable, but you've never shown the data. That's probably because such data doesn't exist. > That sure was a lot of data in your last message. But there's still some > important data missing. You still can't show data which indicates how many > people buy trucks "just to have", vs those who buy them because of their > work. That data would also need to be broken down by brand. You've made > claims which require this data in order to be believable, but you've never > shown the data. That's probably because such data doesn't exist. You have to look at the big picture. Consider that people shopping for a vehicle at a Ford dealer will often purchase the F150 rather than one of Ford's rather poor sedans, coupes, or SUVs. That's how you end up with the F150 often being the "best selling vehicle in the U.S." No one thinks that all those buyers are contractors; those F150s are the daily commute vehicle for most of the buyers. People shopping for a vehicle at a Toyota dealer have a selection of excellent cars, trucks, and SUVs. Few Toyota buyers are going to choose a large pickup truck, with its rather poor MPG, as a passenger vehicle for daily use. That's why Tundra buyers tend to be people that are using their trucks for real work, not weekend warriors hauling bags of potting soil home from Lowe's or Home Depot. The market for personal vehicles is much larger than the market for real work trucks, that's why the F150 sells well. >> That sure was a lot of data in your last message. But there's still some >> important data missing. You still can't show data which indicates how [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > The market for personal vehicles is much larger than the market for real > work trucks, that's why the F150 sells well. Maybe, but without data (which doesn't exist), your theories do nothing but invite yet another detour in the discussion. Hunter should come along shortly, sputtering & drooling with another of his drunken, misspelled opinions. But still, there will be no data. There may be a few dealerships where real sales training is done, and the salespeople proactively ask buyers how they plan on using their trucks. But we'll never know because nobody polls car salesmen on this subject. I wish somebody would prove me wrong, though. It would mean that there was more sales professionalism in the car business than previously thought. That would be a win-win situation in so many ways. >> That sure was a lot of data in your last message. But there's still >> some important data missing. You still can't show data which [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > The market for personal vehicles is much larger than the market for > real work trucks, that's why the F150 sells well. This is sort of weird logic. It seems to me you are saying - People decide they want a Ford, they go to the Ford dealer, and the only decent vehcile is an F150, so they buy it. They don't consider cars from other manufacturers, only Ford, so they feel stuck with F150s. Do you think this is reasonable? Don't you think it is more likely, that for whatever reason a large number of people decide they want a truck, and then once they decide they want a truck, a large percentage decide to buy a Ford F150? This seems much more likely to me. In the last 5 years I have bought five new vehicles (three for me and two for children). Three were cars (Mustang, Fusion, Mazda3) and two were trucks (Frontier, F150). I didn't start out looking to buy a car (say the Fusion) and end up in an F150. I wanted/needed a car and bought a car that I thought best meet the need (or want). Likewise when I decided to get a new farm truck, I looked around and bought a truck. I didn't go to the Toyota dealer and think, hey, they have great cars, I'll buy one. No, I looked at their trucks, and Ford's, and Nissan's, and bought a Nissan (and then after 3 years decided I hated it and bought a Ford). I can buy the arguement that until recently Ford's car offereings were not as attractive relative to their trucks as offering from other manufacturers, and therefore Ford sales were skewed to trucks (i.e., a larger percetnage of Ford's total sales were trucks than cars). I can't buy the arguement that the F150 is the best selling vehicle becasue it is Ford's only decent offering. Ed didn't say a f.cking thing about "rock crawling," you pulled that one out of your arse. trucks are good for a lot more than hauling... or do you equate hauling capacity with penis size? when amerikans make a truck that will last 100,000 miles and not cost you your left nut in pointless repairs, give me a shout. Oh by the way.... how do the "big three" (what a memory that is) handle recalls???? They don't. They let you the dumb a.s consumer suffer with their shitty design and assembly. peace. or maybe since you like ford it should be "pieces" and wasn't ol henry ford a real piece (there's that word again) of work. Today he'd be called a terrorist.... >> You problem is so typical of the people who engage in similar diatribes. >> Yeah your 20 year old Ford may be great for hauling 15,000 pounds of hot [quoted text clipped - 487 lines] > SAFETY ADMINISTRATION¿S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-DASH-2-DOT > (1-888-327-4236). 000020373000092516000000153 ----- Original Message ----- From: "M. Balmer" <boogerpicker@wazoo.net> Newsgroups: alt.autos,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.toyota.trucks Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:05 PM Subject: Re: Latest Mis-Leading Tundra Commercial > didn't say a f.cking thing about "rock crawling," you pulled that one out > of your arse. Sorry about that. I guess I confused riding around off road with rock crawling. A 70 year old jeep can handle riding around in the dirt. I care about the work a truck can do, not how good a play thing it is. > trucks are good for a lot more than hauling... or do you equate hauling > capacity with penis size? No, I equate hauling capacity with usefulness, at least for a truck. What good is a truck that can't haul anything? You would be better off with a car or an old jeep if you don't need a vehicle that has decent cargo capacity.. > when amerikans make a truck that will last 100,000 miles and not cost you > your left nut in pointless repairs, give me a shout. Here is your shout. Ford has been making trucks like that for my entire life. Toyota is still trying to match Ford trucks. They are not even close yet. > Oh by the way.... how do the "big three" (what a memory that is) handle > recalls???? They don't. They let you the dumb a.s consumer suffer with > their shitty design and assembly. Toyota is the most agressive company when it comes to avoiding recalls. The standard Toyota response to a safety investigation is to deny there is a problem. When presented with data indicating there is a common safety problem, Toyota then claims the data is wrong. When confronted with overwhelming evidence that the data is correct, Toyota blames the problem on the Customer,. As a last resort when it appears the NHTSA will issue a mandatory recall, Toyota will issue a voluntary recall, announce how Customer freindly they are and blame the problem on either a supplier ofrthe Customer. While all companies at least initially fight recalls, no company fight recalls hardrer than Toyota. No company is willing to put out as much misinformation as Toyota when it comes to safety problems. Look into the history of the truck ball joint recall, or the recent floor mat recall, or the rusting frame recall..... > and wasn't ol henry ford a real piece (there's that word again) of work. > Today he'd be called a terrorist.... Today Henry Ford is called dead and buried. He has been for over 70 years. Not sure why you think he would be called a terrorist....but it seems irrelevant. Ed That is odd when I drive I see 30+ year old Chevy, GMC, Ford and a Dodge once in a while. Chevy PU's from 73-87 are everywhere, the 88-98 are too as well as the newr chevys I see 80-86 Fords, 87-97 fords and up. Dodges are mostly 94 and up, with a few older 88-ish with a cummins. I do see a few 89-94 Toy PU. The truck they should have kept building. I see a few Pre-Ranger Mazda PU But very few nissans.  SignatureI'm Right, U R Wrong! > the oddity is finding very many eight to ten year old F150's running the > roads [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >>> but it's true that the Tundra cost more than your standard Ford, Chevy, >>> or Dodge truck. > That is odd when I drive I see 30+ year old Chevy, GMC, Ford and a Dodge > once in a while. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > few older 88-ish with a cummins. > I do see a few 89-94 Toy PU. The truck they should have kept building. Toyota really hit their stride with Tundra. It's rather over-built, but that's why it lasts so long. If you want something that's just "good enough" but cheaper truck that will last 1/3 as long. The Tundra has a stronger frame and thicker steel throughout. But it goes beyond just the design, Toyotas are also more reliable, repairs are reasonably priced, and parts availability is excellent. ----- Original Message ----- From: "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> Newsgroups: alt.autos,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.toyota.trucks Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 4:27 AM Subject: Re: Latest Mis-Leading Tundra Commercial >> That is odd when I drive I see 30+ year old Chevy, GMC, Ford and a Dodge >> once in a while. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > design, Toyotas are also more reliable, repairs are reasonably priced, and > parts availability is excellent. Over built? Overbuilt for what - carrying a couple of bags of groceries? Seriously, have you actually driven a current style Tundra? It is clearly inferior to anything form Ford or Chevy or even Dodge. You might be able to convince me it is superior to the Titan, but even that is doubtful. The Tundra isn't even as good as the Tacoma. It is the worst Toyota vehicle in at least a decade. If you were honest, you'd have to admit it was a massive screw-up. It still baffles me Toyota's management would spend so much money and end up with a POS like the Tundra. The only stride Toyota hit with the Tundra was a header off a cliff. Ed > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Seriously, have you actually driven a current style Tundra? It is clearly > inferior to anything form Ford or Chevy or even Dodge. What characteristics of THE RIDE provide clues about the heftiness of the frame, or other aspects of how it's built? <snip> > What characteristics of THE RIDE provide clues about the heftiness of the > frame, or other aspects of how it's built? Yes, that's the big problem with the Tundra; Toyota built a heavy duty truck for commercial use, not a truck that was intended to be a substitute for a passenger car like GM, Ford, and Dodge have been doing (since they make all their money from such vehicles). On Saturday I was at Home Depot. There were four trucks with racks parked by the large roll-up door by the lumber and building materials section being loaded up with supplies by contractors. Three were Tundras of various vintage, one was a Ford F150. Then I went to Trader Joe's across the street and counted trucks, three Fords, one Chevy, one Dodge, and one Tundra. To make a long story short, it's very clear that the Tundra is being purchased by companies and individuals that actually need a truck to do work, not just for going around town. They can't afford to buy a less reliable, less capable truck because any tiny savings in initial price would be lost many times over in the future. Perhaps Toyota is missing out on a profitable market segment by not building a car-like full-size truck. They probably are reluctant to build a light-duty full size truck because they don't see that as a market that they could easily take away from Ford in the areas of the country where such vehicles are used as passenger cars. > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > market that they could easily take away from Ford in the areas of the > country where such vehicles are used as passenger cars. but, but, I went to Home Depot this morning and all I seen on the lot were a couple of late model Fords PU's several beat up older Fords PU's and a couple chevs. Not a Tundra to be found. -- > What characteristics of THE RIDE provide clues about the heftiness of the > frame, or other aspects of how it's built? The way the pick-up bed flexs on a slightly rough road. Tundras beds flex like crazy. Ed >> What characteristics of THE RIDE provide clues about the heftiness of the >> frame, or other aspects of how it's built? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Ed How many Tundras have you driven under those conditions? >>> What characteristics of THE RIDE provide clues about the heftiness >>> of the frame, or other aspects of how it's built? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > How many Tundras have you driven under those conditions? One...that was enough. Ed check your math > That is odd when I drive I see 30+ year old Chevy, GMC, Ford and a Dodge > once in a while. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >>>> but it's true that the Tundra cost more than your standard Ford, Chevy, >>>> or Dodge truck. the oddity is finding very many eight to ten year old F150's running the roads > Really? If anyone actually wanted a Tundra they could have had their pick > at the Manheim Auto Auctions for as low as $25,000 just last month. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> it's true that the Tundra cost more than your standard Ford, Chevy, or >> Dodge truck. > the oddity is finding very many eight to ten year old F150's running the > roads At least those that have been used as work trucks. Many non-professional users buy pick up trucks to use as personal vehicles with only occasional use to haul stuff or to tow a boat or trailer. Any truck can last a long time under that kind of use. The advantage of the Tundra is that they are very tough in terms of the engine and body. You still see a lot of 10 year old (model year 2000) contractor's Tundra's on the road, having had nothing but routine maintenance. I told my contractor, "you need a new truck" because his 00 Tundra has 300K miles on it and is rather beat up on the outside, but he has no interest in spending $30K on another truck while the current one still runs fine. When you look at the big picture, in terms of not only initial cost, but in terms of costs of maintenance and longevity, the cost per year of a Tundra is much less than that of other trucks. You also have to consider the costs of outfitting a new truck more often. Stuff like racks that are truck specific can add thousands in extra cost, and you don't want to be replacing them every three years. Just the mere fact that a contractor is using a Tundra is one indication that they are one of the better contractor's to consider, in terms of price, quality of work, or both. > Just the mere fact that a contractor is using a Tundra is one > indication that they are one of the better contractor's to consider, > in terms of price, quality of work, or both. This may be the silliest thing I have ever heard. I would suggest that the contrator you driving a Tundra likes Toyotas and nothing more. There is no credible evidence that suggest that Tundras last longer than US pick-up. Actually, given all the quality problems associated with Tundras, I'd suggest it implies the Contractor didn't research things at all and just blindly purchased a third rate truck based on a bunch of BS he read on the internet. Ed Does it really matter what commercials Toyota runs for the Tundra? Sales for the "new" tundra have been in the dumper since day one. Look at the industry statistics to see what buyers think of the Tundra. Even Dodge trucks sell far better. Tundra sales were so bad Toyota had to shut down the Texas plant for three months and they were dumping Tundra's to rental fleets and at the Manheim Auto Auctions for months for as low as $25,000 The only Tundra buyers Toyota is getting are current buyers of their small truck who have decide they want a bigger truck. > Has anyone notice the snap shot in the new Tundra Commercial? In the > commercial a contractor talks about when he started out 7 years ago he [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Ed > The only Tundra buyers Toyota is getting are current buyers of their small > truck who have decide they want a bigger truck. You might be right about that. Show your source for that theory. It's interesting. On Oct 19, 7:40 pm, "C. E. White" <cewhite3rem...@mindspring.com> wrote: > Has anyone notice the snap shot in the new Tundra Commercial? Havent seen the add, but then I dont believe anything in adds anyway. I have contractor friends who swear by Tundra's and some who swear at them. Every mfgr has lovers and haters. |
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