Just bought a dozen 11-ounce cans at Sam's Club for $88.52. Comes out
to $7.38 a can. Still a far cry from about $25 that I paid for the
previous case I bought there a couple of years ago. :(. The 30-pound
cylinders were selling for about $230, if anyone's interested.

Thanks for the input.

Surely, the price will go down on r-134a when Dupont's
Corpus Christie unit comes back on line.

Meanwhile, prices on a 30 lb. jug of it are around $250.00!
Ridiculous.

"On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 01:46:08 -0700, "Ted Mittelstaedt"
"<tedm@toybox.placo.com> wrote:
"
">
">"Ashton Crusher" <Hello@nowhere.net> wrote in message
">news:luv3d1p81t9ftccm74c3q2m72u42pof4mk@4ax.com...
">> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 02:43:42 GMT, Jim
<aeschelon@hotmail.com> wrote:
">>
">> >What has happened to the skyrocketing prices of R-134a?
">> >Is there an alternative on the horizon and if so, what
is
">> >the name and expected release date and expected price?
">> >
">>
">> Europe has switched to a different refrigerant and no
one over there
">> makes it anymore so the US is the only remaining large
market for 134a
">> so the supply has gone down and the price has gone up.
">
">Ah, no.
"
"My info was what was printed in Motor Magazine last month.
They said
"the euro factories stopped making 134 leaving only the US
factories..
"Supply and Demand.  Same demand, less supply, higher price.
"
"
" Europe doesen't have to switch over to R744 until 2011
And
">don't be surprised if at the last minute that gets
jettisoned.  One of the
">biggest problems with R744 is that there's no way to leak
detect it
">except for using dye.  (R744 is basically CO2 and as
that's present in
">the air already, a leak detector can't tell the
difference)  And dye is
">unacceptable for automotive servicing - people aren't
going to put up
">with being told to come back to the A/C shop 4-6 times
after service
">work just to tighten a few fittings.
">
">It also has to be run at thousands of PSI which makes it a
real problem
">for long term life of flexible lines.  And charging it is
going to be a
">bitch
">since your going to have to be buying it in pressure
bottles like you
">would buy welding gasses.
">
">This is typical Europe tree-hugging.  Your not going to
see China and
">India fool around with this sort of thing for many many
years, if ever.
">Hell they just barely stopped making stuff with R12 in it.
">
">Here's a good link on this problem:
">
">http://www.macsw.org/pdf/refrig.pdf
">
">The reason there is a shortage is:
">
">1) DuPont had a "production interruption" (rumor is a
fire) last year in one
">of it's
">major R134a production plants and
">it shut down production for some time as a result.
">
">2) The worldwide demand for R134a has jumped tremendously
because China
">and India are converting over to R134a from R12, also in
Europe now, most
">vehicles are being produced with A/C, a few years ago most
didn't come with
">A/C from the factory.
">
">3) The refrigerant gas manufacturers didn't project the
sudden spike in
">demand
">and as a result there's no new R134a production facilities
coming online in
">the
">near future.
">
">4) More R134a is being diverted from the auto market
(where the margins are
">rather thin) to the propellant markets (paint cans,
hairspray, etc.) where
">the
">margins are much bigger.
">
">5) A number of factories that make R134a also can
switchover to making
">HFC125
">and when the prices of those gasses is higher than R134a,
they stop
">producing R134a
">and produce HFC125 until the price of HFC125 comes down
and R134a goes up.
">
">HFC125 is used to make R407c, which is the alternative
refrigerant for R22
">systems, much like R134a is the alternative for R12
systems.  Right now
">there is
">a big push for getting the large systems (like the A/C
used in your home)
">converted over to R407c because in 2010 manufacturers will
be prohibited
">from
">making R22 systems.
">
">6) There is significant price gouging in the retail market
driven mainly by
">the lack of information out there, also people are
panicing and are hoarding
">the stuff right now.
">
">See http://www.dupont.com/suva/na/usa/index.html for more
info.
">
">The high prices will likely continue until 2006.
">
">Ted
">