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Car Forum / Driving, Maintenance, Tuning / General Car Topics / August 2008Check oil when engine is hot or cold?
On my 15 year old Accord, I get different dipstick readings when the engine has been sitting overnight vs. checking 10 minutes or so after the engine was running for a while. Most probably due to settling of oil into the pan over long time periods. When is it best to check oil. In the morning after the engine sits overnight, or after being driven for a while? <piclistguy@yahoo.com> wrote: (Honda Accord) I get different dipstick readings when the engine has been sitting overnight vs. checking soon after running the engine. When is it best to check oil? ___________________________________________________ Check the oil at any time after the engine has been stopped for at least an hour. This gives the oil time to drain down and settle in the pan. Rodan. > On my 15 year old Accord, I get different dipstick readings when the > engine has been sitting overnight vs. checking 10 minutes or so after [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > When is it best to check oil. In the morning after the engine sits > overnight, or after being driven for a while? RTFM :-) > > On my 15 year old Accord, I get different dipstick readings when the > > engine has been sitting overnight vs. checking 10 minutes or so after [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > RTFM :-) What does the "FM" say these days? When I learned how to drive, the procedure was to: 1) start the engine when it is cold 2) let it run for 1 minute 3) shut it off 4) check the oil 1 minute after you shut it off Is that still the current ideal procedure? In reality, as long as you are not too high and not too low, you are probably OK, so it likely doesn't matter too much how you check it. -john-  Signature====================================================================== John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 john@johnweeks.com Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com ====================================================================== "John A. Weeks III" <john@johnweeks.com> wrote in news:john- C3EF8A.21523508082008@comcast.dca.giganews.com: >> > On my 15 year old Accord, I get different dipstick readings when the >> > engine has been sitting overnight vs. checking 10 minutes or so after [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Is that still the current ideal procedure? That makes no sense. Why would you run settled oil through an engine that's of variable ambient temperature, allow the oil to drip back down into the pan at some indeterminate and variable rate, then attempt to measure the variable product of your activity? If your oil consumption is normal (+4,000mi/qt), all you need to do is make sure you're well above the minimum level. For this, a quick check at the gas station is sufficient. If your consumption is high (as mine is; ~2,000mi/qt), and/or you're trying to determine _precisely_ what your consumption level is, you need to be far more rigorous. And this means checking first thing in the morning, before the engine is cranked, and with the car sitting in the exact same attitude for each check. The comparative validity of any measurements lie in the consistency of method from instance to instance. SignatureTegger "Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message > The comparative validity of any measurements lie in the consistency of > method from instance to instance. > Tegger Good point. I think you should check it after it is completely drained down too. You want to know that it is above the minimum level, and ***not too far above the maximum***. And you can only know that for sure when it is completely drained into the pan. > "Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > drained > into the pan. And, I have found, that only happens completely if the engine sits undisturbed overnight. I've spent the last seven months (covering some 8,400 miles) doing extremely precise measurements of my oil consumption. Each and every check (seven recorded checks so far, many more unrecorded) has been done in exactly the same manner. Precision is critical for anything like this. Now, I am confounded by one imprecise factor, and that is the actual stick reading, which is done visually against a millimeter-graduated scale I devised for the purpose. I have found that, not only does oil take all night to fully drip down into the pan, but the stick reading is different from front to rear on the stick. In addition, each time you pull the stick to check and put it back, the next reading may vary by as much as 1/2 a millimeter from the previous one unless you wait five minutes or so between stick pulls. In addition to all that, the level indicated on the stick may not be a flat line, but may be concave or convex, this apparently random, but surely tied to something I haven't discovered yet. All this means it is difficult to pin oil level to an exact reading, or consumption down to anything finer than 50 or 100 mile increments. These are my readings. Odometer is in kilometers, all else is US Imperial: Jan 23/08 - 477,832 to 479,441 - 2,500 mi/qt - avg temp about 10 - 1st thousand on oil Feb 20/08 - 479,624 to 481,233 - 2,175 mi/qt - avg temp about 10 - 2nd thousand on oil Mar 28/08 - 481,975 to 483,551 - 2,500 mi/qt - avg temp about 30 - 1st thousand on oil Apr 17/08 - 483,583 to 485,268 - 2,350 mi/qt - avg temp about 40 - 2nd thousand on oil May 11/08 - 485,721 to 487,373 - 1,650 mi/qt - avg temp about 50 - 3rd thousand on oil Jun 14/08 - 487,963 to 489,663 - 2,150 mi/qt - avg temp about 65 - 1st thousand on oil Jul 03/08 - 489,699 to 491,418 - 1,800 mi/qt - avg temp about 75 - 2nd thousand on oil This gives me an average consumption of about 2,100 miles per quart. Oil age seems to be a factor in consumption, as does ambient temperature. In a year or so I should have enough data to determine more convincingly the most important factors governing my oil consumption. SignatureTegger >This gives me an average consumption of about 2,100 miles per quart. >Oil age seems to be a factor in consumption, as does ambient >temperature. In a year or so I should have enough data to determine more >convincingly the most important factors governing my oil consumption. You are trying to be too precise. Many things can affect oil consumption, especially on a worn engine. Acceleration, traffic conditions, driving practices in general, temps, etc, etc. Here's something to ponder. I rebuilt a 352, jobbing only the case bath, cam bearing insertion and the heads. Ran perfect, but was using a quart of oil every 500 miles or so with the mostly city driving I was doing. I suspected the valve guides, since I had jobbed the heads. This was confirmed when I took a trip to Yellowstone, driving about 4000 miles total, and used no more than 1/2 quart of oil for the trip. Back home in the city, pulling vacuum when backing off for lights and stop signs started sucking the oil through the guides at the same quart per 500 miles. --Vic On 8/8/08 9:52 PM, in article john-C3EF8A.21523508082008@comcast.dca.giganews.com, "John A. Weeks III" <john@johnweeks.com> wrote: >>> On my 15 year old Accord, I get different dipstick readings when the >>> engine has been sitting overnight vs. checking 10 minutes or so after [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Is that still the current ideal procedure? Never heard that one before & I've been driving for 43 years. Where did you hear this procedure? It really is non-repeatable engine to engine, varies with temperature, etc. Lots of reasons this is not an ideal procedure. > In reality, as long as you are not too high and not too low, you > are probably OK, so it likely doesn't matter too much how you > check it. > > -john- > > What does the "FM" say these days? When I learned how to drive, > > the procedure was to: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > hear this procedure? It really is non-repeatable engine to engine, varies > with temperature, etc. Lots of reasons this is not an ideal procedure. My father was a master mechanic and instructor at a major Army base near Washington DC in the 1950s, and, as you know, the Army has a process and procedure for everything. For oil, this was they way you did it. -john- Signature====================================================================== John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 john@johnweeks.com Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com ====================================================================== On 8/11/08 9:49 AM, in article john-72F942.09494911082008@comcast.dca.giganews.com, "John A. Weeks III" <john@johnweeks.com> wrote: >>> What does the "FM" say these days? When I learned how to drive, >>> the procedure was to: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > -john- OK. It makes more sense in that context. I was in the Army in the 70's. Saw lots of weird stuff in those manuals. > On 8/11/08 9:49 AM, in article > john-72F942.09494911082008@comcast.dca.giganews.com, "John A. Weeks III" [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > OK. It makes more sense in that context. I was in the Army in the 70's. > Saw lots of weird stuff in those manuals. It is not a completely dumb procedure. With the engine running you don't want too much oil because the crank will whip it like an egg beater and you don't want too little or the pump will suck air. So a test that takes into account how fast it can get back to the pan does make some sense. -jim ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- >>> On my 15 year old Accord, I get different dipstick readings when the >>> engine has been sitting overnight vs. checking 10 minutes or so after [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > -john- Warm engine, level ground, a few minutes after turning it off (e.g. after fueling). If you want to know your burn rate, you want a /consistent/ and /convenient/ method. If you are driving across the country, you can't wait for the engine to cool each time you check the oil, so you do it when the engine is warm. Get it? as for hot engine vs sitting over night. i don't think it matters much, just make sure you change the oil every 5,000 km or 3,000 miles It actually does. I noticed sometimes a huge difference in dipstick level vs. one hour of sitting vs. overnight. My owners manual doesn't provide advice on when to check it. On Aug 3, 9:37 am, box...@sasktel.net wrote: > as for hot engine vs sitting over night. i don't think it matters > much, just make sure you change the oil every 5,000 km or 3,000 miles piclistguy@yahoo.com wrote in news:511ed7f5-faf3-4759-b2ba- d322091d7d8c@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com: > On Aug 3, 9:37 am, box...@sasktel.net wrote: >> as for hot engine vs sitting over night. i don't think it matters [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > level vs. one hour of sitting vs. overnight. > My owners manual doesn't provide advice on when to check it. This is a favorite subject of mine, and I've conducted extensive studies on it. I have found that oil splash/pull up the dipstick tube, plus oil temperature, plus residual that has not dripped down yet, does definitely affect the dipstick reading. Also important is what part of the stick touches what part of the tube during insertion and removal, and this will vary slightly with each insertion/removal. I have even found that on my engine the dipstick will read differently from one side to the other, on account of the fact that the dipstick enters the oil pan at a slight angle. If your oil consumption is normal (+4,000mi/qt), all you need to do is make sure you're well above the minimum level. For this, a quick check at the gas station is sufficient. If your consumption is high (as mine is; ~2,000mi/qt), and/or you're trying to determine _precisely_ what your consumption level is, you need to be far more rigorous. And this means checking first thing in the morning, before the engine is cranked, and with the car sitting in the exact same attitude for each check. The comparative validity of any measurements lie in the consistency of method from instance to instance. SignatureTegger On Aug 3, 1:59 pm, piclist...@yahoo.com wrote: > It actually does. I noticed sometimes a huge difference in dipstick > level vs. one hour of sitting vs. overnight. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Check your oil first thing in the morning before you start your motor. Make sure you are on level ground. Just pull out the dipstick and look at it. No need to wipe it. On 8/2/08 8:11 PM, in article b05980e8-4e94-49d3-8792-5bebb5a263b7@a3g2000prm.googlegroups.com, > On my 15 year old Accord, I get different dipstick readings when the > engine has been sitting overnight vs. checking 10 minutes or so after [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > When is it best to check oil. In the morning after the engine sits > overnight, or after being driven for a while? I have always heard that it should be checked in the morning or when you get gas, as the last thing before you start the engine back up. Most owners manuals don't say anything one way or the other. My new Nissan Altima manual says check it hot after waiting longer than 10 minutes & that's the first printed info I've seen on the matter. >On my 15 year old Accord, I get different dipstick readings when the >engine has been sitting overnight vs. checking 10 minutes or so after [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >When is it best to check oil. In the morning after the engine sits >overnight, or after being driven for a while? Damn. What do you do when you gas up on the highway and check you oil? Get a motel room so you can wait overnight? Just gas up and then check the oil. That's plenty of time for it to drain down and give you a good reading. Just make sure you're not confusing the trans stick with the oil stick. --Vic >> On my 15 year old Accord, I get different dipstick readings when the >> engine has been sitting overnight vs. checking 10 minutes or so after [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > --Vic I would say to just do it under the similar conditions each time, so someone can be aware of /changes/ in the level and appearance. > On my 15 year old Accord, I get different dipstick readings when the > engine has been sitting overnight vs. checking 10 minutes or so after [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > When is it best to check oil. In the morning after the engine sits > overnight, or after being driven for a while? It isnt that critical... You need to be above the fill line, and below the overfull line. This is not rocket science. I never said it was rocket science. But atleast twice in the 250K miles I have owned the car. A measurement a few minutes after engine is stopped yielded a measurement slightly below the lower mark. And when I let the car sit overnight, the measurement was slightly above the mark. Both times I checked each measurement atleast twice to confirm. Both times I was on level ground. This was very strange and I just wanted to know what could be the cause behind it. > <piclist...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > overfull line. > This is not rocket science. A: Because it ruins the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? > I never said it was rocket science. > But atleast twice in the 250K miles I have owned the car. A [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> overfull line. >> This is not rocket science. <piclistguy@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:cc94ef48-9b9f-47eb-818b-\ This was very strange and I just wanted to know what could be the cause behind it. It isnt strange at all. Oil expands when hot and contracts when cold, but also the engine parts do the same. There will be some volumetric diffences due to temperature. Mainly the oil will drain out of the remote crevices overnight and it may give a reading that is slightly more than a short stop reading. Now, if you are using something like Amsoil and change it only infrequently, you may see large differences. I have seen some of this crap that is so viscous you need to drain the engine for a LONG time just to change the oil. Otherwise a 5 quart fill may give you 5 and a half quarts in the crankcase. ><piclistguy@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:cc94ef48-9b9f-47eb-818b-\ > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >viscous you need to drain the engine for a LONG time just to change the oil. >Otherwise a 5 quart fill may give you 5 and a half quarts in the crankcase. If there's a noticeable change in how fast the oil drains down from the heads it might be worth looking for clogged oil passages. Think that was a problem with some Camry heads, and it could happen with any car with lots of miles. Don't have enough info to know if that change in draindown time happened. --Vic > If there's a noticeable change in how fast the oil drains down from > the heads it might be worth looking for clogged oil passages. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > --Vic The Amsoil situation I quoted was on a little import type pickup (dont remember the maker at present), and the owner went 12-14,000 miles between changes. When I changed the oil on it, I couldnt believe how viscous and mucky it was. When it stopped draining, I replaced the filter, and refilled the crankcase with the "correct" amount of oil....and found I was a half quart too full. I should have let it drain for several hours, it turns out. But no harm done. I wouldnt run that crap, nor that change interval, in anything I own. Some heads that I can remember did have smaller than optimum drain holes. In particular, the 2.5 litre Iron Duke gave me some problems with oil leakage around the valve cover gaskets because it would not drain properly. I "fixed" that by opening the drain holes with a grinder, and machining the head sealing surfaces flat (they were cast, rough, crappo pieces). Then I installed a cast aluminum valve cover for rigidity and the problem was solved. But, you never solve all the problems with that particular engine. On 8/3/08 10:28 PM, in article cc94ef48-9b9f-47eb-818b-eedeeb2bd43e@1g2000pre.googlegroups.com, > I never said it was rocket science. > But atleast twice in the 250K miles I have owned the car. A [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > level ground. This was very strange and I just wanted to know what > could be the cause behind it. If your problem is that it shows slightly above or slightly below the fill mark, the answer is the same - add some oil. You want it to be well into the gap between fill and max whenever you check it. Small differences due to temperature expansion/contraction or weirdness with the oil filter bypass don't count. >> <piclist...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> overfull line. >> This is not rocket science. |
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