Car Forum / Chevrolet / Chevrolet Corvette / May 2004
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Diode - 23 May 2004 04:07 GMT Well, the deed is done. The car went back together today (finally). The bottom line is that although the inner bearing was starting to show some signs of wear, the real culprit was the parking brake return spring that broke off. It was jammed between one of the brake shoes and the "drum". That's what was making all of the scraping, grinding and squealing noise. Everything went back together fairly easily, but I wouldn't exactly call it a day at the beach. It was good practice for when it's time to swap out the rear though. Who was the genius that came up with the piece of information about the two holes for adjusting the parking brake? Was that Tom? That was crucial knowledge for getting the rotor on in the right location. Thank you whoever that was. Anyway, I took it out for a test drive and nothing (like the wheel for instance) fell off, so I guess I did a good job. Thanks to everybody else for the "moral support". It was almost like you guys were under the car with me, except not as crowded :o)
 Signature -|>|- Diode -|<|- '68 L-79 Coupe '79 Triumph Bonneville Shut up, Dave.
Fly-by-Night CC - 23 May 2004 05:28 GMT > Anyway, I took it out for a test drive and nothing (like the wheel > for instance) fell off, so I guess I did a good job. Thanks to > everybody else for the "moral support". It was almost like you guys > were under the car with me, except not as crowded :o) Good to hear. In my opinion, rear bearing and spindle work is the most difficult thing you'll ever encounter on the '63-'82's. After that everything else'll seem like a piece of cake.
 Signature Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design. <http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com> <http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html>
RicSeyler - 24 May 2004 21:47 GMT Great!!!! I got mine on the road Saturday also.
> Well, the deed is done. The car went back together today (finally). > The bottom line is that although the inner bearing was starting to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > nothing (like the wheel for instance) fell off, so I guess I did a > good job.
> Thanks to everybody else for the "moral support". It was almost like > you guys were under the car with me, except not as crowded :o) And nobody to help lift....... :-)
 Signature Ric Seyler
Diode - 24 May 2004 22:28 GMT RicSeyler spoke thusly:
> Great!!!! > I got mine on the road Saturday also. And you'd be REALLY pissed to see just how easily the pivot bolt went back in. Everything else wasn't bad either, just time consuming. The only part I had to do twice was the caliper. I tried to put the pads back in after it was mounted. No way to hold the pistons back and slide the pads in. So I popped the caliper back off, loaded it and put it back on. Then I went to change my shirt because it was soaked in brake fluid by then :o) No, I don't have the "special tool" to hold the pistons and I wasn't about to run out and buy one either. I just wanted to get it done and get my leg in the hot tub. Did yours come out OK too, Ric?
 Signature Shut up, Dave.
-|>|- Diode -|<|- '68 L-79 Coupe '79 Triumph Bonneville
RicSeyler - 24 May 2004 22:46 GMT > RicSeyler spoke thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > hold the pistons and I wasn't about to run out and buy one either. I > just wanted to get it done and get my leg in the hot tub. LOLOLOL
> Did yours come out OK too, Ric? I'm very very happy, I'll post some pics and a description when I get a chance.
 Signature Ric Seyler
Jai - 25 May 2004 07:04 GMT I'm not done yet!! That strut thing took up a lot of time.....then the yard needed to be mowed! hahahahah....got the new spring placed today.....any suggestions on how to cause the new spring to co-operate in placing it on it outboard mounts.....there at the trailing arm end.....this new spring is waaaaaaaayyyyyyyy flexed.....looks kinda like "Popeye"........verry strong! Thanks......
> RicSeyler spoke thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > to get it done and get my leg in the hot tub. Did yours come out OK > too, Ric? Diode - 25 May 2004 15:01 GMT Jai spoke thusly:
> any > suggestions on how to cause the new spring to co-operate in placing it on it > outboard mounts.....there at the trailing arm end.....this new spring is Real easy...put a vice grip on the spring a little ways inboard to keep the jack from sliding up. Put the jack (I'm talking floor jack here) right next to the vice grips and pump it up. Just make sure that you leave yourself enough room at the end to get the rubber grommet and metal cup on the spring. Make the vice grips plenty tight too. You DON'T want that spring to slip...it will take your head off.
 Signature Shut up, Dave.
-|>|- Diode -|<|- '68 L-79 Coupe '79 Triumph Bonneville
Jai - 25 May 2004 20:54 GMT Thanks Diode. Does it matter if I have the Vette up on stands or should I have it resting on its tires?
> Jai spoke thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > metal cup on the spring. Make the vice grips plenty tight too. You > DON'T want that spring to slip...it will take your head off. Diode - 25 May 2004 22:06 GMT Jai spoke thusly:
> Thanks Diode. Does it matter if I have the Vette up on stands or should I > have it resting on its tires? Up on stands so the suspension is hanging as low as possible.
 Signature Shut up, Dave.
-|>|- Diode -|<|- '68 L-79 Coupe '79 Triumph Bonneville
Jai - 27 May 2004 08:06 GMT Finally...........now I'm ready to find the "D" measurement.....the difference between the elevations of the strut mount point outboard to inboard....I have no clue what the distance should be? help? Also....when doing all this alignment stuff...I am assuming I have to have the Vette still up on stands huh? Then I have another question.....my Left side half shaft yoke came out along with the arm project...shouldn't this yoke have been kept at the differential with a keeper....I ask because the right side half shaft yoke stayed put at arm removal. Now the left side assembly tends to back out away from the differential.....I haven't torked down the cam bolt yet. Any technical reason why the Left side was able to be removed and the right side wasn't? Maybe during the bearing burnout enough stress was put on the keeper inside the differential and it came off? I don't even know if there was such a keeper ring. Thanks..............
> Jai spoke thusly: > > > Thanks Diode. Does it matter if I have the Vette up on stands or should I > > have it resting on its tires? > > Up on stands so the suspension is hanging as low as possible. Diode - 27 May 2004 15:07 GMT Jai spoke thusly:
> Finally...........now I'm ready to find the "D" measurement.....the <snip>
You got a problem, buddy. No, the yoke should not come out and you need to fix that. It's held in with a "C" ring. You have to undo what you just did to get at it. You have to open up the rear, and to do that you have to get the spring out of the way. Look at it this way, as long as you're getting into the rear, it would be a good time to drop those 4.11 gears in there. It's possible that the yoke problem caused the bearing problem (instead of the other way around). The half shaft takes the place of an upper control arm. So if the yoke is sliding out, it's going to make the top of the tire tip out and everything is now on the wrong plane. I could see that putting considerable stress on the bearings.
 Signature Shut up, Dave.
-|>|- Diode -|<|- '68 L-79 Coupe '79 Triumph Bonneville
Tom in Missouri - 27 May 2004 15:51 GMT ROFL!
Close, but no cigar. Yes, there should be a clip in there holding the yoke. But that clip won't prevent the tire from tipping out, gravity does in normal driving. There is about 3000-3500 dry pounds in a Corvette depending on year and model, and one-fourth is on that tire approximately. Because of the camber angle on the rear tires, pressure is always pushing IN at the yoke. You'd have to be pulling some hefty lateral acceleration to make the axle pull out.
Still, it is good to have that clip installed and to get the old one out of the bottom before the gears eat it.
Assumptions: 3500 lb car (car, occupants, gas, etc.) .8 G max lat acc. (typical of C3)
At .8 G, you would have 1280 lb force at the rear tire inward, creating 640 ft. lb of torque (moment). The weight would create 875 lb force at the rear tire upward, creating 510 ft.lb of torque (moment).
So at .8 G, the point just before the tires break away, you would create enough force to pull the top of the tire outward. However, we don't have forces for the pivot bolt of the torque arm and we don't have forces of the shock absorber, both which would resist the tire pulling out.
At .4 G, still very spirited driving, you would have 510 ft lb rotating the trailing arm assembly into the diff and 320 ft lbs rotating it out, meaning the axle stays in.
Plus what you said about planes is true. As the tire tips out, the moment to push it in increases because the moment arm on the weight force increases as the line the weight force passes through moves outward from the pivot point (strut rod). Also, as the tire "tips", the inside lip lifts and reduces the lateral acceleration it can achieve, reducing the force, and letting the tire go back to a normal position.
The bearing is blissfully unaware of this. What affects the bearing is wide wheels with improper offset (backspacing) that allows the weight to achieve a greater moment on the bearings. An extreme deep dish wheel creates a lot of extra force on the bearings. Kind of like grabbing a ball bat, then hanging a bucket of water on the bat. The further out that bucket goes, the harder it is for your wrists to hold the weight. This is something the coffee can, slot car wheel boys with the rice burners haven't studied.
> Jai spoke thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > '68 L-79 Coupe > '79 Triumph Bonneville Diode - 27 May 2004 17:44 GMT Tom in Missouri spoke thusly:
> ROFL! <snip>
Tom:
While all of that math is quite impressive, and I don't doubt the validity of it, as soon as that tire hits a bump, it all goes out the window...
 Signature Shut up, Dave.
-|>|- Diode -|<|- '68 L-79 Coupe '79 Triumph Bonneville
Diode - 27 May 2004 19:16 GMT Diode spoke thusly:
> While all of that math is quite impressive, and I don't doubt the > validity of it, as soon as that tire hits a bump, it all goes out the > window... Just for the record, that last post wasn't supposed to sound snotty, it just kind of came out that way...sorry.
 Signature Shut up, Dave.
-|>|- Diode -|<|- '68 L-79 Coupe '79 Triumph Bonneville
Jai - 27 May 2004 22:30 GMT Bummer...........back under the car I go then huh? 4:11 huh? Good hiway gears.
Learn by doing. Thanks!
> Diode spoke thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Just for the record, that last post wasn't supposed to sound snotty, it > just kind of came out that way...sorry. Diode - 28 May 2004 15:00 GMT Jai spoke thusly:
> Bummer...........back under the car I go then huh? 4:11 huh? Good hiway > gears. Um, no. 4.11:1 are not good "highway" gears. They're good stoplight to stoplight gears.
 Signature Shut up, Dave.
-|>|- Diode -|<|- '68 L-79 Coupe '79 Triumph Bonneville
Jai - 29 May 2004 06:10 GMT hahahahahah....4:11 exactly! I'm not building a stoplight to stoplight car here ........hahahahahah.....
Just trying to get my Vette back on the road...suggestions for hiway gears? How about what's in there already? and I have no clue what they are...do you know? Or how can I find out.........
> Jai spoke thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Um, no. 4.11:1 are not good "highway" gears. They're good stoplight to > stoplight gears. 194377'n'1Z37W2 - 29 May 2004 07:01 GMT > Just trying to get my Vette back on the road...suggestions for hiway gears? > How about what's in there already? and I have no clue what they are...do > you know? Or how can I find out......... I've got 3.08s in both my BB cars and they're both definitely top end cruisers but still pull really hard off the line. Pretty darned good gas mileage for the lack of computerized, high displacement engines: 22-24 on the highway.
You can tell what's *supposed* to be inside by a two-letter code with date on the differential housing. I believe it's on a flat portion of the lower flange where the coverplate and housing mate but it's been a few years since I had the desire to look.
Codes for '72-'75 should be as follows:
AV - 2.73 AW - 3.08 AX - 3.36 LR - 3.36 AA - 3.55 AB - 3.70 AC - 4.11
For good highway performance I'd look for 2.73 up to 3.36 - a decent compromise between stoplight to stoplight and highway performace would be 3.36 or 3.55.
Here's waving to ya - \||||
Owen
Diode - 30 May 2004 05:41 GMT 194377'n'1Z37W2 spoke thusly...
> Codes for '72-'75 should be as follows: > > AV - 2.73 <snip>
Owen:
Could you please tell me the codes for 68? Thanks. Are you getting this from the "black book"? If so, I got to get me one of those things...
 Signature -|>|- Diode -|<|- '68 L-79 Coupe '79 Triumph Bonneville Shut up, dave. Professional driver on a closed course. Do not attempt. Actual mileage may vary.
194377'n'1Z37W2 - 30 May 2004 06:17 GMT > Could you please tell me the codes for 68? Thanks. Are you getting > this from the "black book"? If so, I got to get me one of those things... My copy of Black Book is out in the glove box - way too far to go at 11 P.M in my socks... I used a '53-'79 "Chevrolet Corvette Chassis and Body Parts Catalog" for Jai's '75 but for your question I'll go to my NCRS pocket guide ('53-'72):
1968 & 1969: AK - 3.36 (Std Smallblock) AS - 3.70 (Std Smallblock) AL - 3.08 Positraction (Smallblock) AM - 3.36 Positraction (Smallblock) AN - 3.55 Positraction (Smallblock) AO - 3.70 Positraction (Smallblock) AP - 4.11 Positraction (Smallblock)
AT - 3.08 H.D. Positraction (427) AU - 3.36 H.D. Positraction (427) AV - 3.08 Positraction (427) AW - 3.08 H.D. Positraction (427) AY - 2.73 HD Positraction (427 Auto) AZ - 3.55 H.D. Positraction (427) FA - 3.70 H.D. Positraction (427) FB - 4.11 H.D. Positraction (427) FC - 4.56 H.D. Positraction (L-88 only)
To narrow further one would need to know the original setup as to engine size, HP and transmission.
Here's waving to ya - \||||
Owen
Diode - 30 May 2004 17:53 GMT 194377'n'1Z37W2 spoke thusly...
> AN - 3.55 Positraction (Smallblock) Now that I'm looking at the choices, I'm leaning more toward the 3.55. That sounds like it should be a good compromise. It's a little taller than what I have now (3.36), and I don't think it would be as obnoxious as the 3.70 for cruising at a constant 70-75 MPH.
 Signature -|>|- Diode -|<|- '68 L-79 Coupe '79 Triumph Bonneville Shut up, dave. Professional driver on a closed course. Do not attempt. Actual mileage may vary.
Diode - 30 May 2004 05:27 GMT Jai spoke thusly...
> hahahahahah....4:11 exactly! I'm not building a stoplight to stoplight <etc.>
You can find out what you have very easily. There should be a tag on the rear with a series of numbers. Post the numbers here and one of the guys with the proper book (I don't have it) will be able to tell you what you have. Ratios are pretty much a matter of "taste". I have 3.36 gears now. I was planning on stepping up 3.70 for a little more zip. Now I'm not so sure. My friend went from 3.36 to 3.90 on his 67 small block and he's not happy. Yea, the car will leave 30 feet of rubber in second gear, but he's turning 4500 RPM at highway speed. That kind of blows when the side pipes are screaming in your ears when you just want to cruise. He's stepping back down to 3.42. I'll wait to see how that works out for him before I make a decision...4.42 or 3.70 or anything in between if there is anything in between. It's tough to pick that perfect ratio. When you're blowing off a coffee can fart car, you want nice tall gears to really spank him good. When you're on a 3 hour open road cruise, you want some fairly short gears. If I were a rich man I'd resolve the whole issue with an underdrive/overdrive unit and have the best of both worlds. How about some of you other guys that have small blocks...what gears do you have?
 Signature -|>|- Diode -|<|- '68 L-79 Coupe '79 Triumph Bonneville Shut up, dave. Professional driver on a closed course. Do not attempt. Actual mileage may vary.
Tom in Missouri - 29 May 2004 14:16 GMT Hey, we are all friends here, at least most.
I shouldn't have ROFL. But it just hit me right at the time.
Like yesterday I wished everyone at work a safe and good Memorial Day weekend, and included it was a very good one for me as I just won $250,000 (attached a piece of the spam lottery winnings).
One person wrote back thinking it was real, then two minutes later wrote back with the "oops" message. I broke out laughing and the wife came in. She told me it wasn't THAT funny.
Like everything else in life, things just hit people differently at different times.
> Diode spoke thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > '68 L-79 Coupe > '79 Triumph Bonneville
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