Car Forum / Chevrolet / Chevrolet Corvette / February 2005
Restoration question
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Scubabix - 13 Feb 2005 20:17 GMT Can someone please explain why someone would spend well over $20,000 to restore a 40 or 50 year old Corvette and intentionally cause overspray to mimic the poor quality control GM allowed? I can understand making it as original as possible with parts, types of paint, fabrics etc., but to do crappy work because they did it that way originally just baffles me.
Rob
richard - 13 Feb 2005 21:00 GMT > Can someone please explain why someone would spend well over $20,000 to > restore a 40 or 50 year old Corvette and intentionally cause overspray to > mimic the poor quality control GM allowed? I can understand making it as > original as possible with parts, types of paint, fabrics etc., but to do > crappy work because they did it that way originally just baffles me. > Rob Rob, you have answered your own question. Restore means to return to it's original condition and it's it's original condition included such things as overspray due the methods used at the factory. Not so much sloppiness or poor quality (for the times) but in many cases the motor was painted after it was in the car. Pretty hard not to get a little extra paint here and there. Purists like them original or "restored" to original which includes the overspray. Sounds a little crazy to some but ya gotta give due credit... original IS original. Works for me! Richard
Scubabix - 13 Feb 2005 21:48 GMT >> Can someone please explain why someone would spend well over $20,000 to >> restore a 40 or 50 year old Corvette and intentionally cause overspray to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > original IS original. Works for me! > Richard Thanks for the insight, I can see what you're saying.
Rob
Dad - 14 Feb 2005 02:31 GMT >> Can someone please explain why someone would spend well over $20,000 to >> restore a 40 or 50 year old Corvette and intentionally cause overspray to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > factory. Not so much sloppiness or poor quality (for the times) but in > many cases the motor was painted after it was in the car. Never heard of them painting the engine after it was in the car, are you sure?
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richard - 14 Feb 2005 05:07 GMT >>Rob, you have answered your own question. >>Restore means to return to it's original condition and it's it's original [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Never heard of them painting the engine after it was in the car, are you > sure? I didn't mean the entire engine but in many cases there was spraying of parts going on after the engine was in, a manifold or a bracket etc ... the list is long. The factory originally painted the engines fully assembled using selective masks and spraying away. So you got a little overspray on various other engine components than say just the orange block. Painting the individual components you get some point deductions because some things like edges of gaskets aren't going to have paint coverage and you'll lose some originality points. Moreover, When you start looking around older Corvettes you find all kinds of things that are more than a little different than the way they are done now. A particular example I get a chuckle out of if the car colour on C1 cars up until mid 60 (I think that's the cut off date) they put the car colour on the cab side of the trunk wall in chalk (usually green is what I've seen) and then as the car progressed through assembly and the it got a few dabs of paint this chalk was painted over. So, as there were no tank stickers etc. and you want to know what the original colour was you can quite often scrap off the paint behind the passenger side seat and you'll find the readable marking for colour under it. Strange things happen. It's all part of originality and it's interesting, I think.
Richard
Dad - 14 Feb 2005 06:03 GMT >>>Rob, you have answered your own question. >>>Restore means to return to it's original condition and it's it's original [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > parts going on after the engine was in, a manifold or a bracket etc ... > the list is long. I don't think so.
> The factory originally painted the engines fully assembled using selective > masks and spraying away. So you got a little overspray on various other > engine components than say just the orange block. Painting the individual > components you get some point deductions because some things like edges of > gaskets aren't going to have paint coverage and you'll lose some > originality points. I'm aware of how picky it can get right down to the runs, chalk marks, locations, hanger shadows, and the drip that formed on some brackets, but never saw a painted component that had overspray because of already being on the engine.
> Moreover, When you start looking around older Corvettes you find all kinds > of things that are more than a little different than the way they are done [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Richard >  Signature Dad 05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51 72 Shark Black/Black/4spd
RicSeyler - 17 Feb 2005 20:47 GMT Look at a NCRS restored one with an aluminum intake.. It will have overspray all over the intake.
>I'm aware of how picky it can get right down to the runs, chalk marks, >locations, hanger shadows, and the drip that formed on some brackets, but >never saw a painted component that had overspray because of already being on >the engine. > >
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Dad - 17 Feb 2005 22:11 GMT I'm aware of that, notice I said "a painted component that had overspray" on it. Just another example of how picky it gets.
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> Look at a NCRS restored one with an aluminum intake.. > It will have overspray all over the intake. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>never saw a painted component that had overspray because of already being >>on the engine. RicSeyler - 17 Feb 2005 22:44 GMT LOL Ahhh I see. :-)
>I'm aware of that, notice I said "a painted component that had overspray" on >it. Just another example of how picky it gets. >
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richard - 18 Feb 2005 05:26 GMT >>I didn't mean the entire engine but in many cases there was spraying of >>parts going on after the engine was in, a manifold or a bracket etc ... >>the list is long. > > I don't think so. Sorry Dad, it happened. Trust me on this one... there was painting going on after the engine was in the car.
> I'm aware of how picky it can get right down to the runs, chalk marks, > locations, hanger shadows, and the drip that formed on some brackets, but > never saw a painted component that had overspray because of already being on > the engine. Neither have I but I won't infer it never happened. Weird things happened on the earlier cars
Richard
CardsFan - 14 Feb 2005 13:25 GMT > >>Rob, you have answered your own question. > >>Restore means to return to it's original condition and it's it's original [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Strange things happen. It's all part of originality and it's > interesting, I think. No disrespect intended at all, but I think it's insane.
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Tom in Missouri - 14 Feb 2005 06:26 GMT You need to follow a bit of history to understand it all.
Prior to the '70s, the Antique Automobile Club of America (AACA) (I think, not positive - anyway the guys who did Hershey) restored all sorts of antique cars and did their best to represent how the cars were built originally. Problem is that many of these cars were often extremely low numbers total run (maybe 50) and often even more rare surviving cars (like often one of two) so parts were often non-existent or were often not the same from car to car. So while they strived to have the car like it was built, they knew there were allowances for things no one knew were right or wrong.
Corvettes, being far too modern, were not involved in that, although in the '60s a group formed to preserve the '53-'57(?). Several members broke off from that and in 1974 formed National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS). The goal of both groups at the time was to preserve cars in an original condition to avoid the problems AACA faced and the fact that many straight axle Corvettes were deemed virtually worthless and were slowly being eliminated in original or stock form. They didn't get much support because Corvettes were still too much of the American hot rod and groups like National Council of Corvette Clubs (NCCC) flourished with autocrosses and high speed events. Look at early to mid '70s Hot Rod Magazine to see how Corvettes were modified and customized. At that point, a '63 was only 10 years old, old enough to be affordable by a lot of 20 to 30 year olds and not old enough to be considered valuable by any serious collectible group.
By the end of the '70s, people realized Corvettes were going up in price, and restored cars came into their own in the market. But many were like the customized versions, only basically stock. In other words, bodies were block sanded to perfection, paint was mirror-like ten miles deep, and many parts that wore out were replaced with new and better parts.
But a funny thing happened. Corvettes that had survived unscathed had always received more demand and more money, because they were not abused and destroyed. And with Bloomington Gold growing outrageously, this became confused with restored, as they looked virtually the same to most people. This is when NCRS began to really take off.
Both require originality like the factory did it, but there are differences. But to do it like the factory means duplicating an untouched car that survived that heyday, and the goal is to duplicate the known factory finished product, right down to the errors and flaws the factory produced.
Not everyone wants that. Some just want a Corvette that looks like new, and really don't care about the details to factory originality. And some want it to look new, and drive like new. This is where you see the old Corvettes on C4, C5 and Paul Newman chassis.
Btu history has shown, that while customized cars often bring big bucks at some times, restored cars has a greater consistency in price, and a much longer staying power of the prices they reach. A custom Corvette may reach up to $20,000 when a similar model stock or restored may only go $15,000, but in the long run, that custom will usually drop back to a figure much lower while the stock or restored car continues to climb. Examples are the many custom Greenwood/Eckler style Corvettes of the mid to late '70s.
> Can someone please explain why someone would spend well over $20,000 to > restore a 40 or 50 year old Corvette and intentionally cause overspray to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Rob dave - 17 Feb 2005 19:11 GMT wow. great post. thanks Tom === you must first take out MYUGLYSISTER to email me privately ===
> You need to follow a bit of history to understand it all. > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > > > Rob Bob G. - 14 Feb 2005 14:34 GMT >Can someone please explain why someone would spend well over $20,000 to >restore a 40 or 50 year old Corvette and intentionally cause overspray to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Rob =============================== First a $20,000 restoration IS darn cheap... But I understand where you are coming from and I tend to agree....
BUT
RESTORATION means RESTORATION...put back into original configuration flaws and all... IF you can really call overspray a flaw ...overspray it is the result of the method GM used to build the car...
Just my 3 cents adjusted for inflation...
Bob G
john smith - 19 Feb 2005 01:36 GMT It is all in the eye of the beholder. I like perfection and since I never plan to sell mine I go for perfect and make changes like better insulation and such. But, there are those out there that like 100 point cars and if you want to compete you have to have the overspray and imperfections.
> Can someone please explain why someone would spend well over $20,000 to > restore a 40 or 50 year old Corvette and intentionally cause overspray to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Rob
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