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Car Forum / Chevrolet / Chevrolet Corvette / February 2005

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Restoration question

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Scubabix - 13 Feb 2005 20:17 GMT
Can someone please explain why someone would spend well over $20,000 to
restore a 40 or 50 year old Corvette and intentionally cause overspray to
mimic the poor quality control GM allowed?  I can understand making it as
original as possible with parts, types of paint, fabrics etc., but to do
crappy work because they did it that way originally just baffles me.

Rob
richard - 13 Feb 2005 21:00 GMT
> Can someone please explain why someone would spend well over $20,000 to
> restore a 40 or 50 year old Corvette and intentionally cause overspray to
> mimic the poor quality control GM allowed?  I can understand making it as
> original as possible with parts, types of paint, fabrics etc., but to do
> crappy work because they did it that way originally just baffles me.
> Rob

Rob, you have answered your own question.
Restore means to return to it's original condition and it's it's
original condition included such things as overspray due the methods
used at the factory. Not so much sloppiness or poor quality (for the
times) but in many cases the motor was painted after it was in the car.
Pretty hard not to get a little extra paint here and there.
Purists like them original or "restored" to original which includes the
overspray. Sounds a little crazy to some but ya gotta give due credit...
original IS original. Works for me!
Richard
Scubabix - 13 Feb 2005 21:48 GMT
>> Can someone please explain why someone would spend well over $20,000 to
>> restore a 40 or 50 year old Corvette and intentionally cause overspray to
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> original IS original. Works for me!
> Richard

Thanks for the insight, I can see  what you're saying.

Rob
Dad - 14 Feb 2005 02:31 GMT
>> Can someone please explain why someone would spend well over $20,000 to
>> restore a 40 or 50 year old Corvette and intentionally cause overspray to
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> factory. Not so much sloppiness or poor quality (for the times) but in
> many cases the motor was painted after it was in the car.

Never heard of them painting the engine after it was in the car, are you
sure?

Signature

Dad
05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd

richard - 14 Feb 2005 05:07 GMT
>>Rob, you have answered your own question.
>>Restore means to return to it's original condition and it's it's original
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Never heard of them painting the engine after it was in the car, are you
> sure?

I didn't mean the entire engine but in many cases there was spraying of
parts going on after the engine was in, a manifold or a bracket etc ...
the list is long.
The factory originally painted the engines fully assembled using
selective masks and spraying away. So you got a little overspray on
various other engine components than say just the orange block. Painting
the individual components you get some point deductions because some
things like edges of gaskets aren't going to have paint coverage and
you'll lose some originality points.
Moreover, When you start looking around older Corvettes you find all
kinds of things that are more than a little different than the way they
are done now. A particular example I get a chuckle out of if the car
colour on C1 cars up until mid 60 (I think that's the cut off date) they
 put the car colour on the cab side of the trunk wall in chalk (usually
green is what I've seen) and then as the car progressed through assembly
and the it got a few dabs of paint this chalk was painted over. So, as
there were no tank stickers etc. and you want to know what the original
colour was you can quite often scrap off the paint behind the passenger
side seat and you'll find the readable marking for colour under it.
Strange things happen. It's all part of originality and it's
interesting, I think.

Richard
Dad - 14 Feb 2005 06:03 GMT
>>>Rob, you have answered your own question.
>>>Restore means to return to it's original condition and it's it's original
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> parts going on after the engine was in, a manifold or a bracket etc ...
> the list is long.

I don't think so.

> The factory originally painted the engines fully assembled using selective
> masks and spraying away. So you got a little overspray on various other
> engine components than say just the orange block. Painting the individual
> components you get some point deductions because some things like edges of
> gaskets aren't going to have paint coverage and you'll lose some
> originality points.

I'm aware of how picky it can get right down to the runs, chalk marks,
locations, hanger shadows, and the drip that formed on some brackets, but
never saw a painted component that had overspray because of already being on
the engine.

> Moreover, When you start looking around older Corvettes you find all kinds
> of things that are more than a little different than the way they are done
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Richard
>
Signature

Dad
05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd

RicSeyler - 17 Feb 2005 20:47 GMT
Look at a NCRS restored one with an aluminum intake..
It will have overspray all over the intake.

>I'm aware of how picky it can get right down to the runs, chalk marks,
>locations, hanger shadows, and the drip that formed on some brackets, but
>never saw a painted component that had overspray because of already being on
>the engine.
>
>  

Signature

Ric Seyler

Dad - 17 Feb 2005 22:11 GMT
I'm aware of that, notice I said "a painted component that had overspray" on
it. Just another example of how picky it gets.
Signature

Dad
05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd

> Look at a NCRS restored one with an aluminum intake..
> It will have overspray all over the intake.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>never saw a painted component that had overspray because of already being
>>on the engine.
RicSeyler - 17 Feb 2005 22:44 GMT
LOL
Ahhh I see. :-)

>I'm aware of that, notice I said "a painted component that had overspray" on
>it. Just another example of how picky it gets.
>  

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richard - 18 Feb 2005 05:26 GMT
>>I didn't mean the entire engine but in many cases there was spraying of
>>parts going on after the engine was in, a manifold or a bracket etc ...
>>the list is long.
>
> I don't think so.

Sorry Dad, it happened. Trust me on this one... there was painting going
on after the engine was in the car.

> I'm aware of how picky it can get right down to the runs, chalk marks,
> locations, hanger shadows, and the drip that formed on some brackets, but
> never saw a painted component that had overspray because of already being on
> the engine.

Neither have I but I won't infer it never happened. Weird things
happened on the earlier cars

Richard
CardsFan - 14 Feb 2005 13:25 GMT
> >>Rob, you have answered your own question.
> >>Restore means to return to it's original condition and it's it's original
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> Strange things happen. It's all part of originality and it's
> interesting, I think.

No disrespect intended at all, but I think it's insane.

AJM
'93 Ruby coupe, 6 sp
Tom in Missouri - 14 Feb 2005 06:26 GMT
You need to follow a bit of history to understand it all.

Prior to the '70s, the Antique Automobile Club of America (AACA) (I think,
not positive - anyway the guys who did Hershey) restored all sorts of
antique cars and did their best to represent how the cars were built
originally. Problem is that many of these cars were often extremely low
numbers total run (maybe 50) and often even more rare surviving cars (like
often one of two) so parts were often non-existent or were often not the
same from car to car. So while they strived to have the car like it was
built, they knew there were allowances for things no one knew were right or
wrong.

Corvettes, being far too modern, were not involved in that, although in the
'60s a group formed to preserve the '53-'57(?).  Several members broke off
from that and in 1974 formed National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS). The
goal of both groups at the time was to preserve cars in an original
condition to avoid the problems AACA faced and the fact that many straight
axle Corvettes were deemed virtually worthless and were slowly being
eliminated in original or stock form.  They didn't get much support because
Corvettes were still too much of the American hot rod and groups like
National Council of Corvette Clubs (NCCC) flourished with autocrosses and
high speed events.  Look at early to mid '70s Hot Rod Magazine to see how
Corvettes were modified and customized.  At that point, a '63 was only 10
years old, old enough to be affordable by a lot of 20 to 30 year olds and
not old enough to be considered valuable by any serious collectible group.

By the end of the '70s, people realized Corvettes were going up in price,
and restored cars came into their own in the market. But many were like the
customized versions, only basically stock. In other words, bodies were block
sanded to perfection, paint was mirror-like ten miles deep, and many parts
that wore out were replaced with new and better parts.

But a funny thing happened. Corvettes that had survived unscathed had always
received more demand and more money, because they were not abused and
destroyed. And with Bloomington Gold growing outrageously, this became
confused with restored, as they looked virtually the same to most people.
This is when NCRS began to really take off.

Both require originality like the factory did it, but there are differences.
But to do it like the factory means duplicating an untouched car that
survived that heyday, and the goal is to duplicate the known factory
finished product, right down to the errors and flaws the factory produced.

Not everyone wants that.  Some just want a Corvette that looks like new, and
really don't care about the details to factory originality.  And some want
it to look new, and drive like new. This is where you see the old Corvettes
on C4, C5 and Paul Newman chassis.

Btu history has shown, that while customized cars often bring big bucks at
some times, restored cars has a greater consistency in price, and a much
longer staying power of the prices they reach. A custom Corvette may reach
up to $20,000 when a similar model stock or restored may only go $15,000,
but in the long run, that custom will usually drop back to a figure much
lower while the stock or restored car continues to climb. Examples are the
many custom Greenwood/Eckler style Corvettes of the mid to late '70s.

> Can someone please explain why someone would spend well over $20,000 to
> restore a 40 or 50 year old Corvette and intentionally cause overspray to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Rob
dave - 17 Feb 2005 19:11 GMT
wow. great post. thanks Tom
=== you must first take out MYUGLYSISTER to email me privately ===

> You need to follow a bit of history to understand it all.
>
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
> >
> > Rob
Bob G. - 14 Feb 2005 14:34 GMT
>Can someone please explain why someone would spend well over $20,000 to
>restore a 40 or 50 year old Corvette and intentionally cause overspray to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Rob

===============================
First  a $20,000 restoration IS darn cheap...   But I understand where
you are coming from and I tend to agree....

BUT

RESTORATION means RESTORATION...put back into original configuration
flaws and all...   IF you can really call overspray a flaw
...overspray  it is the  result of the method GM used to build the
car...

Just my 3 cents adjusted for inflation...  

Bob G
john smith - 19 Feb 2005 01:36 GMT
It is all in the eye of the beholder.  I like perfection and since I
never plan to sell mine I go for perfect and make changes like better
insulation and such.  But, there are those out there that like 100 point
cars and if you want to compete you have to have the overspray and
imperfections.

> Can someone please explain why someone would spend well over $20,000 to
> restore a 40 or 50 year old Corvette and intentionally cause overspray to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Rob
 
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