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Car Forum / Chevrolet / Chevrolet Corvette / November 2005Using Aviation Fuel from your local airport ... in your Vette
Back when i was running 11-1 compression , I sometimes went to my local airport that would sell thier 100 octane gas for high perf. cars and boats. It made a difference . I dont need to do that anymore since the motor was rebuilt to 9.6 cr ...but, i was wondering if any of you have tried AV Fuel ? I dont think theyre supposed to sell that for cars and boats since there is no road tax figured into the price ; at least thats what ive heard. > Back when i was running 11-1 compression , I sometimes went to my local > airport that would sell thier 100 octane gas for high perf. cars and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > boats since there is no road tax figured into the price ; at least thats > what ive heard. Problem #1: Your local airport WILL NOT pump AV gas into your car. If you know someone who works there, maybe they will fill a jerry can or two for you, but don't think that you can just drive up and get in line behind that pretty lear jet. Problem #2: Av gas is leaded and tetraethyl lead poisons catalytic converters. Shut Up Dave. LMFAO@dimwitted dave Hasn't he heard that heating oil #1 works even better than either Avgas 100 or Jet A-1 when mixed 50-50 with unleaded premium I certainly hope that you don't pump aviation fuel for a living. Avgas is 100LL or low lead; not your leaded gas of yesterday. It's a great high octane fuel for high compression engines, for both aviation and road use. I doubt that any modern automobile will get an Avgas tanker nozzle in it's filler neck, so don't worry about the other guy's converter. As I recall, Dave's vette is around a '69 and pre-catalytic converter. I don't think the lead is an issue with his vette. Note: If you put Avgas instead of Jet "A" fuel in my Lear Jet, I'd be sticking the nozzle up your tank. >> Back when i was running 11-1 compression , I sometimes went to my local >> airport that would sell thier 100 octane gas for high perf. cars and [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Shut Up Dave. Note: If you put Avgas instead of Jet "A" fuel in my Lear Jet, I'd be >sticking the nozzle up your tank. if you lived, turbines dont like 100ll >I certainly hope that you don't pump aviation fuel for a living. > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> >> Shut Up Dave. > Note: If you put Avgas instead of Jet "A" fuel in my Lear Jet, I'd be > >>sticking the nozzle up your tank. > > if you lived, turbines dont like 100ll Sheesh! You guys are rough! ;-) Still... Shut Up Dave! Bad65 - what model Learjet? I love those airplanes. --- I've tried running a 100LL avgas / pump gas mix to make a '65 Wildcat happy. The car has the original 401 Buick 'Nailhead' engine, never detuned, and does *not* like modern pump gas. Heck, she was picky even back in the Sixties when you could pump 102 octane and 93 octane was lawnmower gas. (Yes, I know the ratings changed. The point stands nonetheless.) To start with, the good folks are right that it technically is not legal to do this. Part of it has to do with what use taxes have been paid - or not paid - on the fuel. Another part stems from the lack of certain additives required for emissions purposes. The 100LL is 'low lead' (that's the 'LL') but not lead-free. Using it will definitely make the warranty on your catalytic converter expire. The Wildcat ran beautifully on the mix - and gave 6 mpg (opposed to her customary 11). The avgas is more volatile than pump gas and made the car run very rich. It also has a much different additive package and I doubt if anyone can vouch for what it might, or night not, do to an automotive carburetor. That's my $.02 worth. -- Vandervecken > The avgas is more volatile than pump gas and made the car > run very rich. ... what it might, or night not, do to an automotive > carburetor. > > -- Vandervecken This inane post is too rich. It's a lot more nane if you don't cut out verbage to alter the meaning. -- V >>The avgas is more volatile than pump gas and made the car >>run very rich. ... what it might, or night not, do to an automotive [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > This inane post is too rich. > >>The avgas is more volatile than pump gas and made the car > >>run very rich. ... what it might, or night not, do to an automotive [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > > This inane post is too rich. > It's a lot more nane if you don't cut out verbage to alter the meaning. > > -- V Not a SINGLE WORD was taken out of context you illiterate, top posting, newbie, stupid f.ck. 'Problem #1: Your local airport WILL NOT pump AV gas into your car. If you know someone who works there, maybe they will fill a jerry can or two for you, but don't think that you can just drive up and get in line behind that pretty lear jet.' Reply: I used to just pull right up to the pump and pump it myself. After i paid, the guy here would always tell me to 'have a nice day' even. 'Problem #2: Av gas is leaded and tetraethyl lead poisons catalytic converters.' Reply: A 1970 Corvette doesnt have cats. 'Shut Up Dave' Reply: THis is pretty immature. What I have seen and heard, is that you take a racing fuel jug and get them to fill it up and if they ask any questions, you tell them you have a home built rig, or ultralite and can't fly in to their location. It works... Jim > 'Problem #1: Your local airport WILL NOT pump AV gas into your car. If > you know someone who works there, maybe they will fill a jerry can or [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Reply: THis is pretty immature. Many GA (general aviatiion) airports now have self-serve pumps so you may not even have to interface with anyone. Depending upon the airport and security arrangements, you could drive right up on the ramp to the pump and pump it yourself. (Watch out for those spinning propellers.) The smaller the airport, the more likely it is you can do this. Although, Taos for example, does have an electronic security gate. And that's about as low-traffic a place as it gets. On my last cross-country flight about 2 weeks ago, 100LL in Boulder was $3.65/gallon and $4.48/gallon in Utah, Nevada and Northern California. >What I have seen and heard, is that you take a racing fuel jug and get them >to fill it up and if they ask any questions, you tell them you have a home [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> >> Reply: THis is pretty immature. > What I have seen and heard, is that you take a racing fuel jug and get > them [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> >> Reply: A 1970 Corvette doesnt have cats. We use AV gas in one of our race cars. Just go to the pump, swipe the credit card, fill a 20 gallon drum and drive off. No problem. We find our car is more consistent on AV gas than racing fuel. And, they call it low lead, but compared to yesteryear's car fuel, it's not low. Al >>What I have seen and heard, is that you take a racing fuel jug and get >>them [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Al What type of racing are you doing that you can pass the fuel test? They check us all the time both when we race SCCA and Champ Car. Dennis >>>What I have seen and heard, is that you take a racing fuel jug and get >>>them [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Dennis Drag racing. There are no fuel checks and we usually run 110 to 114 octane racing fuel. It's about $6.00 a gallon. Al >What I have seen and heard, is that you take a racing fuel jug and get them >to fill it up and if they ask any questions, you tell them you have a home >built rig, or ultralite and can't fly in to their location. It works... >Jim In S. Florida you can pump 100+ Octane airboat fuel right in the tank. -- lab~rat >:-) Do you want polite or do you want sincere? > Back when i was running 11-1 compression , I sometimes went to my local > airport that would sell thier 100 octane gas for high perf. cars and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > boats since there is no road tax figured into the price ; at least thats > what ive heard. Back in the mid-50s I was driving a '51 Olds 88 'vert (303 cid) with milled heads, compression ratio probably near 10:1. It "cackled" on either commercial premium or 96 octane (blue) AvGas. Green, 100/130 was about right in that engine and gave a plug life of about 5000 miles. Green wasn't pumped too often on that base--we only used it in a couple of C-45's (called them SNB's). Purple 115/145 was easy to come by--the fuel farm pumped thousands of gallons every day (and a few hundred gallons of "spillage" and "evaporation" each week wasn't a problem). One of the fuel guys suggested I try a tankful. Nice and quiet but plug deposits were a problem. After two plug changes in three months, I re-gasketed the Olds & sold it. Two cars later I got my first 'vette but never lurked around the fuel farm with that car -- the red 'vette was not as 'subtle' as the pale green Olds. :-) Interesting point with both fuels was that spark could be advanced to the point of diminishing returns without any ping. The Olds didn't really exploit the capabilities of either 100/130 or 115/145. Has anyone run nitrous with AvGas ?? ....PJ I have used the aviation gas. 100 octane low lead as they call it has more lead in it than automotive fuel ever had. The only down side to the aviation fuel is it is formulated for air cooled aircraft piston engines that are designed to use just enough oil to keep the upper cylinders lubricated. Avgas is very dry and will wipe the oil film from the cylinder walls of a automobile engine which in turn causes premature ring wear. I mixed a little two stroke engine oil with the gas to help prevent damage. Also, aviation engines have duel ignition systems for safety reasons one of them being lead fouling of the spark plugs. Not a big issue in a car but in plane it is a little hard to pull over at 10,000 feet and change a fouled plug. > Back when i was running 11-1 compression , I sometimes went to my local > airport that would sell thier 100 octane gas for high perf. cars and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > boats since there is no road tax figured into the price ; at least thats > what ive heard. Please recheck your facts. > 100 octane low lead as they call it has more lead in it than > automotive fuel ever had. Leaded autogas typically used a lead content of two to three grams / gallon. Current formulation of 100LL AVGAS uses 0.57 g / gal. This is why most air-cooled piston aviation engines can be STC'd to use 'unleaded' mogas. > The only down side to the aviation fuel is it is formulated for air > cooled aircraft piston engines that are designed to use just enough > oil to keep the upper cylinders lubricated. Piston aircraft engines' upper cylinders are lubed about like those in cars - oil from the sump. Piston skirts and cylinder walls are lubed (and in part cooled) by oil jets, valve gear by oil pumped into the heads. Lead additive in gas does not lubricate any part of an aviation piston engine, including (contrary to myth) valve stems or seats. AV engines use nice hard valve guides and seats, and often sodium-cooled exhaust valves, to let the oil do its work. Note also that essentially all piston aviation engines can be STC'd to use 80/87 low-lead mogas, and this obviously could not be done if aviation engines really needed more lead in ther fuel. > Avgas is very dry and will wipe the oil film from the cylinder walls > of a automobile engine which in turn causes premature ring wear. Then it'd also tend to remove oil coatings in aviation engines, which it does not. > Also, aviation engines have duel ignition systems for safety reasons > one of them being lead > fouling of the spark plugs. In over thirty years of flying piston-powered airplanes I have seen exactly one fouled spark plug, and it was not lead-fouled. I have never heard any case of an aviation spark plug becoming lead fouled. -- V > Please recheck your facts. > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > -- V Pete, as an impartial and ill-informed observer on the subject matter, thanks for some interesting information. > Pete, as an impartial and ill-informed observer on the subject matter, > thanks for some interesting information. I'm certainly as subject to error and false belief as anyone else, but this being a discussion forum I thought I'd toss in what I think I know. No doubt others have strongly differing opinions, and are welcome to them. Most of what I offered is subjective except the figures on lead content, and I took those from a couple of refineries' sites and the EPA site - I judge middlin' reliable sources. The core issue of this discussion thread is addressed unambiguously by EPA regulation, excerpted here from their website: "Prohibition on the Use of Leaded Gasoline in On-Road Vehicles. Section 211(n) of the 1990 CAAA states: 'After December 31, 1995, it shall be unlawful for any person to sell, offer for sale, supply, offer for supply, dispense, transport, or introduce into commerce, for use as fuel in any motor vehicle (as defined in Section 219(2)) any gasoline which contains lead or lead additives.' This provision applies only to on-road vehicles. Enacting regulations were promulgated [61FR3837, February 2, 1996]." [excerpted from http://www.epa.gov/grtlakes/bns/lead/steplead.html, para 4.1] -- V >> Pete, as an impartial and ill-informed observer on the subject matter, >> thanks for some interesting information. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > -- V Thanks for the link and your elaboration on the whole issue. Makes sense to me. |
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