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Car Forum / Chevrolet / Chevrolet Corvette / August 200886 ALCL help
i really can't just turn over the car to a dealer and say fix it. pride and money. the last time i did that it effectively cost me $1300 for a new battery they will take advantage of us this time i noticed overnight a fluttering of performance as if one cylinder wasn't firing i chked the plugs and found oil leaks from the valve covers onto the plugs cleaned them and problem is still there chkd for vacuum line leaks; none that i could see then on the 3rd day, the Service Engine flashing lite, sometimes chkd code: 42 timing added info: years ago my gas mileage numbers were screwed up, but didn't care, unless it meant ECM bad. pls, tell me i don't have to hand my baby over to them and that i can just buy a $25 part (still laughing myself) and plug it in to solve all problems. ssome let me ask an easier question i have platinum plugs in it which are supposed to last a lifetime. could a broken or faulty plug give a code 42 spark timing err? i chkd a couple of them and they looked fine, but it has been 15 yrs for them. starts easy. ssome > i really can't just turn over the car to a dealer and say fix it. pride and > money. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > ssome > let me ask an easier question > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > them. > starts easy. nothing last a life-time (except maybe bad-luck?) anyway, check the condition of your wires. g'luck  Signature"Key" ===== ---snip--- thanks, i did chk the wires and found the oil from valve cover leaks tightened them, and cleaned off the wires which look fine cleaned the plug connections (in and out) and outside of plugs for oil problem still there will replace plugs with new platinum unless there is now an improved plug for the '86 not looking forward to this task, esp right side, esp back one. what in hell were they thinking? at least we don't have to remove the engine to get to the back ones ssome > > let me ask an easier question > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > ===== > ---snip--- > thanks, i did chk the wires and found the oil from valve > cover leaks [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > ssome might not be your problem ? however, a wire can be breaking down and still look acceptable. Signature"Key" ===== >> > let me ask an easier question >> > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> ===== >> ---snip--- always do the easy and cheap stuff first put in sp wire, dist cap, coil, rotor, plugs, electronics points module and the ESC all connetions to ALL SENSORS. there is also an external timing 'set' connector, used when setting the timing put in new parts one at a time and check results don't ignore things like bad fuel, fuel pressure, I chased a an intermittent sp wire for 2 years. if compression and vacuum checks shows the engine ok, fuel and pressure ok, wiring good, the only thing left are senors and ecm if it was the ecm your car will definately not run g...luck There is also >i really can't just turn over the car to a dealer and say fix it. pride >and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > ssome > if it was the ecm your car will definately not run I have to disagree with this from personal experience. I had an aftermarket chip go flakey on me after having it for 8 or 9 years. The car would run perfectly, then suddly surge, rumble, hesitate, and sometimes cut off. After going through several checks, I finally got down to the chip and put the stock one back in. Poof! problem solved. Right, i cleaned the wires of obvious oil secured all conns, looked for vacuum leaks and now i just bought a set of Bosch Plat +4 at $6 each ! code 42 is intermittent, spark timing thanks, ssome > always do the easy and cheap stuff first > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > > > ssome please explain further "the ESC all connections to ALL SENSORS" ssome > always do the easy and cheap stuff first > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > > > ssome > i really can't just turn over the car to a dealer and say fix it. pride and > money. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > added info: years ago my gas mileage numbers were screwed up, but didn't > care, unless it meant ECM bad. Do you have a Helm service manual? There's a set troubleshooting flowchart to follow for each Engine code. Otherwise you could just be chasing your tail. i have the Chevy manual there is a flowchart for err 42 elec spark timing (EST) and it seems to be dependent on whether the problem is intermittent or not and from this it will be either the ignition module or ECM a few years ago i had a code 44 err, lean exhaust indication and snugged up all vacuum lines and the problem went away. don't know if this has any bearing on the case at hand. off to change the plugs, see above, got plenty of beer and cuss words i only chkd a couple of them, so looking at all of them should tell me if one or two are not firing thanks, ssome > > i really can't just turn over the car to a dealer and say fix it. pride and > > money. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > flowchart to follow for each Engine code. Otherwise you could just be > chasing your tail. > i have the Chevy manual > there is a flowchart for err 42 elec spark timing (EST) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > up all vacuum lines and the problem went away. don't know if this has any > bearing on the case at hand. The checklist/flowchart almost always lists vacuum leak is one of the first things to check before you go through the chart. The chart also branches on whether or not the code is intermittent. Eventful afternoon in Seattle stage 1 4 plugs 4 beers and naturally i took the easy side first, the left. front to back: 1 and 3 were amber; 2 where there was an oil leak from the valve cover, VC, above it was a little bit more brown, but reasonable. however, 4, back left, was heavily oiled, maybe fired. about this time neighbors who didn't even know me stopped by to laugh at my attack on the right side physical impossibilities. Something about who do you think you are going to pick up in that car at your age, .... 65. Even asked if i remember why i chased nice women. i kept working and explained that i did buy it 20 yrs ago. which brings me to this: i had an '84 that all kinds of problems cropping up, but i was forced into getting the plan to take care of ills (and that was a salvation on a new model). But, i did decide (made too much money then) that i needed the '86 which had the right brakes. better car, but bad move. Back to the right side joke. turns out that most of the problem is the air conditioning. there is a oblique strut support for stability that forces the air unit 4 inches to the proximal which screws us good guys up. Design people should be forced for at least one year to work on their cars to see what havoc they have wrought. but i digress, back again to the right side joke. i really want to complain to the SOB that made the plugs so tight. Oops, that might be me. Maybe, the heat and time made them that way.... sure. More beer to keep me calm, but the cuss words, quietly at first, just spilled out. the upshot of it was that the right side back plug was caked with not just oil, but sludge - this plug was not firing. the front 3 were acceptable. Now, why does this happen? this is a design problem. the back plugs have to be the hottest and have always been a problem since racing began. why are we seeing this in a production car? why aren't we told of this? why isn't there a fix? i am also on my 3rd alternator replacement in 31K miles have we been screwed for trusting them? did it run better? yes. but, not perfect. 90% better. wires? thanks for all your help and i hope it continues with this added info to not only help me but thousands of others who read this N:L. keep up the good work. ssome > i really can't just turn over the car to a dealer and say fix it. pride and > money. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > ssome Snip > conditioning. there is a oblique strut support for stability that forces > the air unit 4 inches to the proximal which screws us good guys up. Design > people should be forced for at least one year to work on their cars to see > what havoc they have wrought. All parts have to be somewhere, some go on first and some go on last, the ones that have to be fixed are in the middle. Would you have bought the car if there had been 8 plugs in a row down the middle of the roof so you could stand up straight and change them? SignatureDad 05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51 72 Shark Black/Black/4spd > Snip >> conditioning. there is a oblique strut support for stability that forces [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > had been 8 plugs in a row down the middle of the roof so you could stand up > straight and change them? Not to gripe about the plugs on the 'vette. My bride's land barge has to have a motor mount pulled to change the serpentine belt--plug change is recommended as 'associated maintenance.' -- PJ '89 Hookercar '02 e-blu coupe i miss those straight 8's > Snip > > conditioning. there is a oblique strut support for stability that forces [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > 05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51 > 72 Shark Black/Black/4spd >i miss those straight 8's Do you miss the vibration or the hood length? AJM '93 Ruby Coupe, 6 sp (both tops) >>i miss those straight 8's > > Do you miss the vibration or the hood length? > > AJM > '93 Ruby Coupe, 6 sp (both tops) Don't remember ever driving a straight 8 that had any vibration and that's all my Dad had until he got the '56 Pontiac (Yes, I know they came out in '55 but he didn't have one.). They sure did require a big roof though but it was no bigger than my Chevy coupe. Now if you really want a big hood how about the 70's Chryslers. >>>i miss those straight 8's >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > it was no bigger than my Chevy coupe. Now if you really want a big hood > how about the 70's Chryslers. Guess I just remember being a passenger in an old Buick that had a lot of steering wheel shake at stop signs or at idle. What days those were to be a kid. You often got to ride in the front seat, and there weren't even any seat belts. How'd I survive? A friend in my college years had a Chrysler Newport. Probably 2 or 3 feet from the front bumper to the engine block. Talk about a land barge... AJM Snip > Guess I just remember being a passenger in an old Buick that had a lot of > steering wheel shake at stop signs or at idle. What days those were to be a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > AJM That may be the difference, my Dad never was at idle. Even when he rolled the Bull Durham cigarette while driving with his elbows. He always said that the 55 MPH speed limit was for driveways. He passed away two years after they made the speed limit 55 and I think it brought on his hearth attack along with the cigarettes. ;-0 >> i miss those straight 8's > > Do you miss the vibration or the hood length? > > AJM > '93 Ruby Coupe, 6 sp (both tops) Hood length, yes. Vibration? wouldn't have dared vibrate! My Dad drove several Packards. In the last one I recall, the crankshaft weighed close to 400lb. Nine mains. Idle rpm was about the same as a Jimmy marine diesel. Block casting was so thick that little sound emerged from the moving parts. Six volt electrical system--gigantic cable between the battery and the starter! -- PJ > Hood length, yes. Vibration? wouldn't have dared vibrate! > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > PJ We used to turn the head bolts out about one full turn and drive them that way until the head broke loose. No way to pry it loose without special tools, then grind the valves and you were good to go for another 50K. One of my first cars was a '48 Packard Electra-matic(?), smooth machine, but one ugly green and looked like a bath tub upside down. yea, i miss that long hood and ease of working on the engine. you could drop a volleyball in there and it would fall to the ground; now, try to drop a marble in there on new cars. often thought of an elongated '32 Ford with a straight 8 or 12. i live in Seattle and i force myself to use the Air Cond 3 times per summer just to exercise it. however, for the next 3 days they expect it to be in the 90's here, but i'll just stay home. there would be a lot of benefits to taking it out. So, with 2 plugs fouled, there has to be an oil leak or no spark to those two cyldrs. the coil has to be working right as the other plugs are right. so, either the wires to them or the dist cap, right? i pray that this is all that could be wrong. thanks again for your (continued) help ssome > >i miss those straight 8's > > Do you miss the vibration or the hood length? > > AJM > '93 Ruby Coupe, 6 sp (both tops) > yea, i miss that long hood and ease of working on the engine. you could > drop a volleyball in there and it would fall to the ground; now, try to drop [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> AJM >> '93 Ruby Coupe, 6 sp (both tops) Hey guys, all kidding aside. Code 42 is a spark timing problem and deals with what goes on between the ignition module, the ECM and the harness between them. This code has nothing to do with plugs, plug wires, HEI coil, etc. -- NADA! To save about $ 300 in diagnostic time at the dealer or scan time at an independent: First step, check to make sure the PROM (memcal) is properly seated in the ECM. Reset the code. Second step, (if it throws code 42 again). Get out a test lamp and a good volt-ohmeter and follow the troubleshooting chart for Code 42. This will pinpoint it, saving a bunch of time and dollars. If you absolutely must throw parts at the problem, replace the ignition module. IIRC its about $ 45. Signature…PJ ’89 HookerCar, ’02 E-blu 6-spd Coupe Snip all relevant information--- > Hey guys, all kidding aside. Code 42 is a spark timing problem and deals with > what goes on between the ignition module, the ECM and the harness between [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > If you absolutely must throw parts at the problem, replace the ignition > module. IIRC its about $ 45. OK, but I can't find the ignition module for my Packard. Thanks, PJ i can see from the chart that 42 is concerned with those 3 items and am tempted to just buy the IM, but if that were faulty wouldn't that affect all plugs? clearly something allowed a lot of oil to get to the back left and absolute sludge to get to the back right plug. yesterday, when i fired it up it still ran a little rough, but nothing like before and i shut it down. today, i took it out and wound it up a bit and burned off the extra oil in the back two cyls and it does run smoother. when i first started it up, it did bring up the code again, but after running it, shutting down and starting it again the code went away, for now. $300! the car has been babied, garaged, and 31K miles. looks new and gets comments all the time. ssome > > yea, i miss that long hood and ease of working on the engine. you could > > drop a volleyball in there and it would fall to the ground; now, try to drop [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > …PJ > ’89 HookerCar, ’02 E-blu 6-spd Coupe Oil often leaks past the valve seals and if you don't drive often it can and will accumulate....seals can drip and leak regardless of mileage......that is one of the major problems with little used cars. When I owned my own shops ( Mustang Motors of NY ) the worst cars we had were the ones that were women owned and/or babied to dead .( driven only a few miles each week ).Some really hi mileage vehicles that were run into the ground ( at that time 100k miles) ran great, burned no oil and required only minor maintenance... Also has anyone even considered a compression test...remember those..???? Yes, i agree. little use opens up things. and oil into a cyl would most likely come from along the valve seals, but why just to the back ones; same diagnostic problem as with spark module. running it for a while, gas prices, and chkg the back plugs will tell more. and i have been looking for my compression gauge. notice that it took a little burn-out to clear the cyls of oil and run smoother, but this fluttering of timing happened over night (one plug really bad) and it does run smoother now at idle. i'ma blama my selfa. but, i will reset the ALCL, and watch the plugs, look at the dist cap (no more points and stuff), and when i finish fixing the computer, house, tree, yard, ego. i will fix the car, again i did have a datsun pickup 3 yrs ago that had good, equal, req'd compression and still burned a little oil. thanks, ssome > Oil often leaks past the valve seals and if you don't drive often it can and > will accumulate....seals can drip and leak regardless of mileage......that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Also has anyone even considered a compression test...remember those..???? another clue might be the dash gas mileage indicator giving screwy but constant results a few years ago 9 mpg, 27 mpg and nothing in between this might suggest ECM removing the air cond would seem to remove the heater as well, ...so much for that. i'll run it for a week and take a look at the back plugs again also, i'll read the instructions again for the meter chks per the manual. not sure if my 42 err is chart intermittent or not now. ssome > > yea, i miss that long hood and ease of working on the engine. you could > > drop a volleyball in there and it would fall to the ground; now, try to drop [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > …PJ > ’89 HookerCar, ’02 E-blu 6-spd Coupe Just when one thinks that things can't get worse (termite mess, big tree blows down, water damage, HA sues, computer fails, new computer fails, etc) i checked the codes again as they were intermittent and i now have 42 and 44. Got the meter and manual out in this 100 deg F wx. beer time. sports on tv. ssome > > yea, i miss that long hood and ease of working on the engine. you could > > drop a volleyball in there and it would fall to the ground; now, try to drop [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > …PJ > ’89 HookerCar, ’02 E-blu 6-spd Coupe Sorry to reply so late, I just rane accroee this post this AM. I've been an auto mechanic for over 10 years now, and I personally feel that Bosch +4 plugs are the worst crap to ever hit the market. They can and WILL over-work the secondary ignition system until something finally gives out. I've seen a couple of distributor caps that have fallen apart due to the high energy required to fire these things. Failed ignition coil(s) are a little more common than that. The most common issue I've seen has been a misfire that gets worse over time. In the most severe cases, one or more plugs will be completely shorted out with carbon fouling (due to the misfire). These plugs are almost always sold as a "high performance", "high mileage", or "lifetime" plug. The fact of the matter is, they are just a unique design that make it impossible to set or check the gap. Spark plug gap specs were created to give optimal spark with minimal load for a specific ignition system. The "one size fits all" approach throws this out the window. This is why different vehicles react differently to these plugs. If I were you, I'd swap those things with a good set of copper plugs. Hopefully, the +4's haven't done too much damage elsewhere. Fixitman > Just when one thinks that things can't get worse (termite mess, big tree > blows down, water damage, HA sues, computer fails, new computer fails, [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] >> …PJ >> ’89 HookerCar, ’02 E-blu 6-spd Coupe sorry about replying to a 2-year old post... I blame it on a fresh OS install with no old-post filter yet, followed by a lack of coffee :) Still you have an interesting point of view with good facts to back it up to. ixitman wrote: > sorry about replying to a 2-year old post... > I blame it on a fresh OS install with no old-post filter yet, followed by > a lack of coffee :) SignatureEugene Blanchard Visit my website Hot Rod Kustoms at http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas |
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