2002 Passat W8 Six Speed Faster than 2002 C5 Corvette and C5 ZO6?

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jackwhite200@yahoo.com - 17 Sep 2006 22:26 GMT

Is this really true? I've heard that the 2002 Passat W8 has a top speed
of 130 in the US, and 155.3 in Europe, but once you remove the
governor, even with the standard 275 horsepower engine, it has a top
speed of 174 MPH, and with an SKN tuning chip program, it has a top
speed of 178 MPH. Is it true that the C5's 172 MPH top speed is DRAG
limited and not governor limited and is the C5 Z06's 171 MPH top speed
drag limited as well?
I've read that it's because of aerodynamics and gearing and
differential ratios that make a much bigger difference than even
horspower and torque at high speeds.
The Passat W8 has a .27 Drag Coefficient and is one of the most
aerodynamic cars on the road, it's supposedly even slipprier to the air
than Enzo Ferraris.
I refused to believe it myself that the mighty Corvette was slower than
a family car, but then a German Neighbor guy showed me proof with his
GPS. He said he went to a race track and his top speed was 174 MPH even
though his car only has 275 horsepower and his 2 kids and wife were in
the car.
I told this guy that even if it's true, that the C6 Corvette Z06 is
faster and has a 198 MPH top speed. He then said that that's only
because the W8 is an old car, he also said that they are going to come
out with a new 400 horsepower Passat R36 coupe that will outrun the
Corvette C6 ZO6 once you remove the governor. He then said that The
Volkswagen W12 Nardo can beat Enzo Ferraris and that the Audi W12 and
Bugatti Veyron are also made by Volkswagen so that nobody else is as
good as Volkswagen.

I took this photo from his GPS unit in his Passat.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/Sal29/car%20pics/W8_top_speedcompressed.jpg
He also emailed me several other photos of Passats that were delimited
like this.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/Sal29/Passat%20Top%20SPeed/172MPHPassatW8Li
mo.jpg

He emailed me this screencap from some german website and he said that
his friend there had driven at 285 KM with a SKN chip.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/Sal29/FastPassat.jpg

I wanted to get a Corvette after I graduated from college since I
thought it was the CHEAPEST really fast car, but if cheaper cars like
Passats really are faster, then I'm not sure if the Corvette is really
as good a deal as I thought.

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Dad - 17 Sep 2006 23:31 GMT

Not very much of it is true, even the 1998 C5 that Charlie had posted a picture
at 205 MPH and that was years ago and they have gotten better. Come on over to
my house and we'll take mine out and bury those figure you puked and stay in 5th
gear. You sure are gullible or just full of sh.t.

A quick search came up with this -"It will likely be badged R36--thanks to the
new 3.6-liter V-6 from the Passat--and have between 280 and 300 hp". Not hardly
what you puked at all. Any search at all will come up with vintage 2002 Z06s
with more horse power than that at the rear wheels with no modifications. Others
with minimal modifications will do 400 RWHP. During the stock C6 tests they came
very close to 200 MPH by folding the mirrors back a taping off the front grill.

Quick question, why are they making the C6-R carry 160 pounds of extra dead
weight?

I do agree though, if you want "cheapest", get the VW, but then if you want the
best, marry for money. You don't need a fast car then, just try to keep up with
her/him.

Put down your magazines and do your home work.

Signature

Dad
05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd

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jackwhite200@yahoo.com - 18 Sep 2006 02:42 GMT

Was it a speedo pic or a GPS pic because at higher speeds, speedometer
pics can be as much as 25 MPH too high. BTW, I always thought that the
top speed of the C5 6 speed was 172 MPH drag limited and for the
convertible it was 165, and for the Z06 it was 171. Are you sure that
the 205 MPH C5 isn't a HIGHLY modified car? Is it bare bone stock or
does it have a lot more power?
I've done research about a lot of cars including Corvettes thinking
about what car I'm going to get when I graduate from college and have a
good job, but it seems you guys really don't know that much about
European Cars. For instance for the people who think Volkswagens are so
cheap, they should try and buy a Phaeton or better yet a W12 Nardo.

You have to compare apples to apples, if you compare a 2002 C5 with
thousands of dollars worth of mods vs a 2002 Passat W8 with a stock
engine producing 275hp and just high speed tires added and the governor
removed, then I don't think that's a fair comparison.
I want to do bare bone drag limted top speed comparisons so for my
purposes removing the governor or adding high speed tires don't count
as modifications rather they count as REMOVING modifications.
I want to do comparisons that are fair. For instance, if you remove the
governor and add high speed tires to a Passat W8, then you can only do
the same things to the Corvette.
I think that the only reason the comparison between the C5 and Passat
W8 can be made is because the 6th gear of the C5 Corvette is too tall,
and that that the highest speed are actually achieved in 5th gear, and
the C5 is also not as aerodynamic.
The most aerodynamic cars are actually the GM EV1 Electric Car .19 COD,
Lexus LS430 .25 COD, Honda Insight .25 COD, Toyota Prius .26 COD, and
Volkswagen Passat W8 .27 COD.

You're also confusing the Passat R36 Coupe with the R36 Sedan I think.
The Passat R36 Coupe has 400 horsepower, and Volkswagen has been very
good and getting top speed out of their power so I'll have to wait and
see till it comes out to see which is the fastest cheap car, the C6 ZO6
or the Passat R36 Coupe when DELIMITED.
http://www.iphone-forum.org/volkswagen/showthread.php?p=971425

I care about what the car can do without an extra power added so I know
what the starting point is. If you want to modify a car, you can easily
make even a VW Golf go fast see the 333 km/h pic here.

http://www.need4speed.ws/top-speed/HGP_R32_BiT_333/Nardo-Pirelli-Test-2004-VW-Go
lf-HGP-R32-Biturbo-333-kmh.html

You can make a lot of cars fast by adding mods to them.
I want a car that's already the fastest in my budget and then I can
make it even faster by adding extra power later.

> Not very much of it is true, even the 1998 C5 that Charlie had posted a picture
> at 205 MPH and that was years ago and they have gotten better. Come on over to
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Put down your magazines and do your home work.

Reply to this Message

PJ - 18 Sep 2006 04:03 GMT

> The most aerodynamic cars are actually the GM EV1 Electric Car .19 COD,
> Lexus LS430 .25 COD, Honda Insight .25 COD, Toyota Prius .26 COD, and
> Volkswagen Passat W8 .27 COD.

One more time, -- cd by itself doesn't cut ice. Generally, it's easier
to produce a low cd when the area is large -- note that your LS430 does
quite well (yet, the Prius will probably have a much lower total drag).
Remember that at one time, the larger Volvo wagon had one of the lower
cd's in the business. (It also had one of the largest equivalent flat
plate areas of any passenger vehicle.) Various 'vettes with areas about
3/4 that of many sport sedans have much lower total drag, yet an
"unattractive" cd.

To "compare apples with apples" you have to look at CdA, not cd. Better
yet, measure the actual drag in pounds at 170 mph, sea level, standard
day etc. etc. A phenomenon called "drag divergence" may make total drag
data taken at 80-90 mph totally worthless at 170.

And, when you do that, make sure that the configuration (with/without
mirrors etc.) was the configuration you wanted to run at Vmax.

Let the advertising guys use cd. Like Dad says, get out of the
magazines and into the cockpit.

HTH
--
PJ

Reply to this Message

Dad - 18 Sep 2006 11:13 GMT

> Was it a speedo pic or a GPS pic because at higher speeds, speedometer
> pics can be as much as 25 MPH too high.

Sorry, they didn't have GPS capabilities when it was done which doesn't matter
because it's all bullshit anyway. Where can you, or anyone else, utilize a car
at that speed?

>BTW, I always thought that the
> top speed of the C5 6 speed was 172 MPH drag limited and for the
> convertible it was 165, and for the Z06 it was 171. Are you sure that
> the 205 MPH C5 isn't a HIGHLY modified car? Is it bare bone stock or
> does it have a lot more power?

Why should it not be modified? You base all of your truths on a "delimited" VW?

> I've done research about a lot of cars including Corvettes thinking
> about what car I'm going to get when I graduate from college and have a
> good job, but it seems you guys really don't know that much about
> European Cars.

Stay on subject here, first it was the Corvettes are slow and now it's that we
don't know anything about European cars. I think my greatest thrill was watching
them pickup a car from the M1 carriageway in England. They didn't use a wrecker,
just leather gloves to throw it on a lorry, biggest piece was the dash, even the
motor broke apart. No survivors. So much for speed as a buying guide.

>For instance for the people who think Volkswagens are so
> cheap, they should try and buy a Phaeton or better yet a W12 Nardo.

For what purpose, to impress someone you don't know or care to know?

> You have to compare apples to apples, if you compare a 2002 C5 with
> thousands of dollars worth of mods vs a 2002 Passat W8 with a stock
> engine producing 275hp and just high speed tires added and the governor
> removed, then I don't think that's a fair comparison.

No mods on both would be better but you keep kicking in the "governor removed"
bit. Why not try the Corvette with the rev limiter removed and the VW with the
governor removed?

> I want to do bare bone drag limted top speed comparisons so for my
> purposes removing the governor or adding high speed tires don't count
> as modifications rather they count as REMOVING modifications.

Whoa, now there is some reverse english on that little thought.

> I want to do comparisons that are fair. For instance, if you remove the
> governor and add high speed tires to a Passat W8, then you can only do
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> and that that the highest speed are actually achieved in 5th gear, and
> the C5 is also not as aerodynamic.

What's your point? The top gear is an overdrive and was built for that reason.
I'm glad you picked Corvette to compare the bug to though, it only shows what
the top dog is to beat.

Blather snipped>

>> Quick question, why are they making the C6-R carry 160 pounds of extra dead
>> weight?

I see you didn't touch this one, but what the hell, it's your story, tell it the
way you want to.

>> I do agree though, if you want "cheapest", get the VW, but then if you want
>> the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>
>> Put down your magazines and do your home work.

Been there, done that, and most of us here have owned and at the very least
driven cars from all over the world. Personally these little pissing contests
amuse me as the old saying about "any given day any given team can be beat"
holds true with cars, how much money do you want to spend. Better yet were can
that much speed be of any value? I only say that because I live in a state that
has capital punishment for speeders, murders and rapists go free, speeders are
put to death or they kill themselves.

Want to talk about the C6 Z06? As just a side note I have nothing against the
W8, great piece of engineering as are the LS engines.

BUT, I like your little game, next!

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PJ - 18 Sep 2006 01:46 GMT

> Is this really true? I've heard that the 2002 Passat W8 has a top speed
> of 130 in the US, and 155.3 in Europe, but once you remove the
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> Passats really are faster, then I'm not sure if the Corvette is really
> as good a deal as I thought.

Drag co-efficients, while not worthless don't really tell the story
unless one knows the conditions under which they were determined and
also the equivalent flat plate area. Sort of like saying that my hammer
will hit a nail harder than you hammer.
--
PJ

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