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Car Forum / Chevrolet / Chevrolet Corvette / December 2006

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ZÿRiX - 20 Nov 2006 15:56 GMT
98 C5 Coupe
DIC states Pull key wait 10 seconds then says service column lock...
The column lock was serviced a year ago under recall
anyways it will stay running until I move it about 2 feet then it
shuts off...

I would like some input on this if anybody has had this problem
Thx

Signature

        ZÿRiX
(¯`'..(<>..<>)..'´¯)

L DaVinci - 20 Nov 2006 21:09 GMT
Is it an automatic or manual transmission?  Which recall did you have
done?  It could be a failed relay from the recall.  You may need the
latest recall if you don't have it already.

I'd also pull the codes from the DIC and follow up on
www.corvettemechanic.com (which is back up again)

>98 C5 Coupe
>DIC states Pull key wait 10 seconds then says service column lock...
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>I would like some input on this if anybody has had this problem
>Thx
ZÿRiX - 21 Nov 2006 00:59 GMT
> Is it an automatic or manual transmission?
     Auto
Which recall did you have done?
       column lock
It could be a failed relay from the recall.  You may need the
> latest recall if you don't have it already.
>
> I'd also pull the codes from the DIC and follow up on
> www.corvettemechanic.com (which is back up again)

My friend at a caddy dealer pulled it up on his scanner and
said there was no codes thats why he was so puzzled

>>98 C5 Coupe
>>DIC states Pull key wait 10 seconds then says service column lock...
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>>I would like some input on this if anybody has had this problem
>>Thx
ZÿRiX - 27 Nov 2006 21:56 GMT
Retest with new scanner...
codes that were pulled

B0432
B2588
B2593
B2597
B2721
B2723
B0503
B0508

Signature

        ZÿRiX
(¯`'..(<>..<>)..'´¯)

Dad - 27 Nov 2006 22:41 GMT
> Retest with new scanner...
> codes that were pulled
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> B0503
> B0508

For some reason they don't show up as you have them listed, here's what I found.

P0432 Catalyst System Low Efficiency Bank 2
P0503 Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) Circuit Intermittent
P1508 Idle Speed Low - Idle Air Control (IAC) System Not Responding
B2721 Pass-Key detection circuit (out of range)

Not much to go on and only one as you show them.

Sorry, not much information and my file was created 6/22/2002 so they should
have been in it.

Signature

Dad
05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd

ZÿRiX - 27 Nov 2006 22:46 GMT
>> Retest with new scanner...
>> codes that were pulled
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> Sorry, not much information and my file was created 6/22/2002 so they
> should have been in it.

Thx dad I will get a printout from him...
ZÿRiX - 28 Nov 2006 10:30 GMT
Found this here tell me what you think Dad
http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45539

> B0432
B0432 Rear Defogger Relay Circuit
> B2588
B2588 Column Lock/Unlock Drive A
> B2593
B2593 Column Lock/Unlock Drive B
> B2597
B2597 Traction Control System Switch Circuit
> B2721
B2721 PASS-Key Detection Circuit
> B2723
B2723 PASS-Key Detection Circuit
> B0503
B0503 RH DRL Relay Circuit
> B0508
B0508 LH DRL Relay Circuit
Lone Wolf - 28 Nov 2006 15:06 GMT
No wonder foreign cars are taking over the market...what a lot of crap to
put up with.  Does GM have any engineers that know anything...????
PJ - 28 Nov 2006 16:46 GMT
> No wonder foreign cars are taking over the market...what a lot of crap
> to put up with.  Does GM have any engineers that know anything...????

Ah, but there's good news:  If you pay extra for OnStar, you (and your
service advisor) get it over the Internet.  I've had an intermittent &
bogus, "loose gas cap" warning for ages.

BMW doesn't do much better.  My neighbor has had a bogus 'thin pad'
diagnostic for over a year.

Hey GM:  What we need is a 'confidence level' and 'probability' on each
code.  That otta keep the software guys busy for another decade.

Signature

PJ

Dad - 28 Nov 2006 17:14 GMT
>> No wonder foreign cars are taking over the market...what a lot of crap to put
>> up with.  Does GM have any engineers that know anything...????
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Hey GM:  What we need is a 'confidence level' and 'probability' on each code.
> That otta keep the software guys busy for another decade.

I love the lone wolf reply, the original post was a try to find out in advance
what the problem is. No where did he say that GM has looked at his car. Later a
mechanic, not stated as a GM mechanic, extracted the trouble codes. In all his
negative thinking all of a sudden lone wolf knows that GM engineers don't know
anything. In all of his chest thumping about when he run his shop his activity
or credentials are never mentioned. The "shop" may well have sold floor mats and
he installed them with his special talent being the value added.

Can you be of any help lone wolf or do you just want to bitch about something
you seem to have little or no control over, plus lack of positive impute?

Now that the codes are known it is a matter of checking the function of and the
connection to each sensor that is sending a fault code. That will quickly tell
you if it's problem up stream of the sensors/connection or a computer failure.

PJ- I had the gas cap problem but its ratchet mechanism had broken soon after
that and would not tighten, replaced it with the cap off my other GM vehicle and
the message went away. Stopped at the dealer and picked up a new cap and the
message has never returned. May be that simple or it could be the
sensor/connection.

No signature, don't want to push lone wolf over the edge--------
ZÿRiX - 28 Nov 2006 17:19 GMT
Thx Dad

Signature

        ZÿRiX
(¯`'..(<>..<>)..'´¯)

PJ - 28 Nov 2006 17:32 GMT
>>> No wonder foreign cars are taking over the market...what a lot of crap to put
>>> up with.  Does GM have any engineers that know anything...????
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> No signature, don't want to push lone wolf over the edge--------

Well said!

Thanks for the tip on the ratchet Dad.  Thought for awhile that I was
overfilling the tank but that wasn't the case.  No sweat, the car needs
a locking cap anyway.  (C4 got the Philadelphia credit card treatment a
couple of years back and that's when petrol was around $ 1.65 a gallon.)

Signature

PJ
'89 auto coupe, '02 6-spd coupe

Honda Lives - 29 Nov 2006 18:40 GMT
>> No wonder foreign cars are taking over the market...what a lot of crap
>> to put up with.  Does GM have any engineers that know anything...????
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Hey GM:  What we need is a 'confidence level' and 'probability' on each
>code.  That otta keep the software guys busy for another decade.

Guess it's time to trade in those cars and buy a "reliable" Honda and
you'll even have money left over to feed your family :-)
Dad - 29 Nov 2006 20:58 GMT
snip

> Guess it's time to trade in those cars and buy a "reliable" Honda and
> you'll even have money left over to feed your family :-)

Those that own hondas should not reproduce even if they know how or are shown
how by ADC. ;-)

8gYah.4898$1s6.357@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net
Posters ID, new, no history.
kcYah.4896$1s6.4057@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net
Grayfox, lonewolf, peter daly, etc ID

Signature

Dad
05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd

Honda Lives - 30 Nov 2006 15:26 GMT
>snip
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>8gYah.4898$1s6.357@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net
>Posters ID, new, no history.

Are you trying to trace me?  Gee I must have really offended you or
others by my earlier post to warrant this.  Well, I was just trying to
add a sense of humor.  

I know that Honda will never be a performance car or in the same
league but we can say it the other way too.  That said, I think a good
pair of cars would be a Honda and a Corvette so when the vette is in
repair, the Honda can take over.  I don't think there is a lot of
dispute as to which will need less repairs tho it can also work in
reverse too and when the Honda is in repair the vette can take over.
Perhaps the best of BOTH worlds???  You know, when I dwell on this
thought, I wouldn't mind that combo but I'll leave that to the
owner(s) to decide <grin>.
Dad - 30 Nov 2006 17:31 GMT
>>snip
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> others by my earlier post to warrant this.  Well, I was just trying to
> add a sense of humor.

Just thought it strange that someone with no history to his screen name was
coming from a noted shill site as most seen to. I check all people I reply to,
if they have a history of "humorous" remarks or offer nothing to the site topics
I kill file them. Of course you fully intended to be accepted with open arms
with your entry remarks and your screen name. There is very little humor in your
remark as you well know, it was meant to stir feelings. Most times I give some
on the kill file, but not always, and I'm sure you can get along without me just
as I can without you.
Honda Lives - 30 Nov 2006 22:13 GMT
>>>snip
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>on the kill file, but not always, and I'm sure you can get along without me just
>as I can without you.

No, I actually thought it was funny to break the ice in a way of
speaking.  It wasn't meant to be taken too seriously tho you seem to
take it literally.  And it wasn't meant to be a personal attack on
you, anyone else nor to dictate what car to own.  

I guess you have to have a sense of humor to understand.  I wouldn't
ordinarily apologize for this but if it makes you happy, I apologize
for offending you and anyone else.  

Anyway, go ahead and kill file me now :(    .
'Key - 01 Dec 2006 02:48 GMT
>>>>snip
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>
> Anyway, go ahead and kill file me now :(    .

hl,
you really should hope he doesn't.
because,
you will be kill-filed by one of the most respected /vette
savvy guys on this group.

just my2¢
Signature

"Key"
=====

Honda Lives - 01 Dec 2006 06:10 GMT
>>>>>snip
>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
>just my2¢

Thank you Key for telling me.  I don't at this time own a vette (as
most probably could tell) but I accept your advice.  However I think
he probably already has killed me so I'm history.  He's probably
hoping I'll go away.  Well perhaps I'll just lurk.  

I hope someday he realizes that my post was meant as comic relief and
never a put down on vettes nor a personal attack on anyone.
Well I think I apologized enough.  If people choose to be angry over
that post now, whatever.  There's only so many words I can say to
apologize.
'Key - 01 Dec 2006 16:32 GMT
>>hl, you really should hope he doesn't. because,
>>you will be kill-filed by one of the most respected /vette
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> say to
> apologize.

Dad also kill-filed me in the past. For some reason he had
second thoughts.
I am glad he did, because he has helped me a few times with
my vette problems.
I have an 84 c-4 vette and sure need some solid advice from
time to time.
This is really a fine group. You will see that, after you
lurk for a while.

g'day to you & yours
Signature

"Key"
=====

Bob I - 01 Dec 2006 00:24 GMT
>>snip
>>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> thought, I wouldn't mind that combo but I'll leave that to the
> owner(s) to decide <grin>.

That's stupid, if you going to buy two cars, you may as well get another
'vette, that way you don't have to stoop to driving a honda.
Tom in Missouri - 05 Dec 2006 15:13 GMT
I think the way this whole discussion is going should be a lesson to put a
few smileys and frowns and such in to let a few people know which way they
are writing.

And then accept that they are trying to say it that way, whether it comes
across or not.

As to the Honda, why not?  While we are here because the Corvette is the
world's greatest car, how many actually driving a Corvette and only a
Corvette and never drive anything else?

Certain Hondas I would entertain. Others, I wouldn't just like certain
Chevies and Dodges and so on.  Are the rest of you saying you are so
narrow-minded that you would drive a Corvette and only a Corvette and never
anything else?  Going to be real hard getting around on a business trip when
they fly you someplace.  Heck, I even drove a Mercury Milan about 2 months
ago while on business. An ok car, comfortable, ran well, but not my cup of
tea.

I thought hard about buying a Honda. A girlfriend had a CRX and it was a fun
car to drive.  It was the go kart type of cars, like the Austin Mini I had
long ago and the Dodge Neon I had. They were small, quick, agile, and could
be a lot of fun in traffic if you really needed to get through it.

None of them would EVER replace any of my Corvettes.

And I think that is the point. While it is a great idea to think of driving
a Corvette daily and always, sometimes we have other needs.  I had to haul a
couch in my truck a few weeks ago.  It would have been really hard to do in
the Vette.  But those other needs also raise the specialness level of the
Corvette. When I had my '67 big block coupe, I drove it as my daily driver.
To work, to school, to whatever.  After awhile, it was just a car.  I hadn't
gotten rid of my '69 Charger and so I began driving it to work when I blew
the rear out of the '67.

When I got back in the Vette after two weeks of not having it, it was
GREAT!!!!!!  And a few more !!!!

Within a couple of months, it was a car again.  Since I hadn't been having
luck selling the Charger (now there is one I wish I had today, seen the
Mopar prices lately?), I stuck some for sale signs in the windows and drove
it to work several days a few. The days I drove the Vette, it was special
again.  Granted, it seemed like there were days in the Charger, I really
wished I'd taken the Vette (girl in next car, Ricky Racer in next lane,
etc), but when I drove it every day, there were a lot of days nothing made
me really want it there. Watching the steam and exhaust blow the 10 inches
of snow away from the sidepipes while I cleaned the windows one night was
cool, though. :-)  <<< There a smiley.  I'm laughing. <<<<

Recently, I had a '79 I found.  Most will tell you that a '79 is possibly
only slightly higher on the Corvette scale than a '77 or '84, but I only
drove it on a few occasions, like to run off for lunch, or over to the
school PTF once a month, or whatever.  And when I did, it felt GREAT!  (not
as great as the '67, but you get the drift)

So while the idea of daily driver is great, sometimes it is the special
driver status that makes it GREAT.  And especially if you drive a not so
great car in between or a car that is very different.  Trust me, cars like a
Mini (a real one, not this new BMW copy), a Vega, a Neon, and such, can be a
lot of fun, but they are no way a Corvette, however, they really heighten
the Corvette experience each time you get in and out of the seat.

And this is from a guy who has only had 5 weeks total of not owning a
Corvette in the last 32 years.  And those were a long time ago.

>> I know that Honda will never be a performance car or in the same
>> league but we can say it the other way too.  That said, I think a good
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> That's stupid, if you going to buy two cars, you may as well get another
> 'vette, that way you don't have to stoop to driving a honda.
Dad - 05 Dec 2006 16:53 GMT
>I think the way this whole discussion is going should be a lesson to put a few
>smileys and frowns and such in to let a few people know which way they are
>writing.

Sounds like a good idea. ;-)
Bad dreams from blackout drills at home, not as often now but still have them -
:-(
Evacuation drills at school - :-(
Pearl Harbor - :-(
Large number of planes flying over day and night to Dayton for dispersement -
:-)
Bataan - friend survived the death march by eating his own feces, over 200 Lb
going in, 90 when found, if you don't chew them you can get 5 or 6 meals for the
same cup of beans :-(
You know what he drank - :-(
Bridge on the river Kwai - death camps - :-(
Doesn't even show up in their history and they killed thousands of asians as
well as English and Australians. :-((
Okinawa- brother was there, still won't talk about it. :-(
Guadalcanal - lost an uncle - :-(
Wake Island - Lost neighbor and a cousin - :-(
Coral Sea - Uncle lost a leg - :-(
Iwo Jima - :-)
Midway - :-)
Atomic bomb ;-))
Hiroshima - :-)
Nagasaki - :-)
Rebuild the empire at our expense - :-(
Rebuild their manufacturing infrastructure better than ours, thank you Dr Deming
and a stupid government - :-(
Enter a Corvette news group suggesting I buy a honda - :-(
Saying it was a joke ;-?
It may have been but it was still a stupid thing to do. :-/
My right to express my own opinion - ;-))
Memories and emotions, what would we do without them?
Don't forget to salute the Rising Sun Thursday!!!

Do I hate? No, as long as you don't pick the scab off it don't hurt anymore.

Signature

Dad
05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd

PJ - 05 Dec 2006 18:35 GMT
>> I think the way this whole discussion is going should be a lesson to put a few
>> smileys and frowns and such in to let a few people know which way they are
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> Do I hate? No, <BS!!!!!> as long as you don't pick the scab off it don't hurt anymore.

Good grief!  I'll be d*****.  I had wondered what was under the hood.
Sorry Dad, but it's about automobiles.

Look youngster, I think I lived closer to most of that than you did.
Barrage-ballon Site #37 was 100 yards from my house.  Three times,
shrapnel fell out of the sky at night.  Kids dug foxholes and played
war.  OK to be Germans vs. Yanks.  No one wanted to be a Jap.

Blackout was not a drill. We covered all windows save for the
bedrooms--every night.  We used flashlights with pin holes to find the
toilet at night.  We had an 'A' ticket for the car -- that got my Mom 2
gallons of gas a week.

Across the street from my school, MGM studio wasn't hidden.  It's sound
stages were the intended target if the Japanese aimed for Douglas
Aircraft-Santa Monica.  (which was hidden under netting with fake houses
and phone poles on top.)

I was there when my grandmother and two of my aunts earned the title of
<gold star mother.>  My Dad, a Seabee "visited" seven different rocks as
the U.S. clawed its way across the Pacific.  Earned a purple heart but
he made it back in one piece.  I'm very thankful for having him as my
hands-on mentor from age 11 onward.  Three of my cousins weren't as lucky.

I do not like wars.  I gritted my teeth as folks got splattered when I
pulled the trigger.  I cursed myself when I got sloppy and missed them.
  I swore when someone else punched a hole in my plane.  War happens.
When it's over you gotta hang up the jock, wash out the brain as often
as possible, and do something else.

In the late '50s I helped train pilots for the JMSDF.  Great guys
all--superb work ethic and all were great sticks.  (However, our riggers
had a devil of a time fitting USN helmets to Japanese skulls.)  I have
no regret about having invested that effort into Japan.  I do have some
regret with having helped train the Iranians in the early '70s.  Work
ethic wasn't there and their brains were located somewhere below their
belt lines.

It's over -- let go.  Pull the scab off and get rid of the pus.  It's
about cars.  Good ones, better ones and fun ones.  Life is too damn
short to hang on to hate.

When it's habitable back there, go for a ride.  I've got the day off and
am about to go trade the C4 for the C5 and do the same.  73 deg here
right now, wind has died down.  We pray that the fire hazard will
subside and we won't loose any more fire fighters this year.

Signature

PJ

Dad - 05 Dec 2006 23:03 GMT
Snip

>> My right to express my own opinion - ;-))
>> Memories and emotions, what would we do without them?
>> Don't forget to salute the Rising Sun Thursday!!!
>>
>> Do I hate? No, <BS!!!!!> as long as you don't pick the scab off it don't hurt
>> anymore.

Good grief Charlie Brown, by just reading what I type you can form an opinion
but I'm not allowed to??

One of the fellows I worked with was from Japan and Kaz and I got alone better
than you think I can with an off the wall comment about how we should buy a
honda. Even my proctologist knows if he sticks me in the a.s he will get a
reply.

> Good grief!  I'll be d*****.  I had wondered what was under the hood. Sorry
> Dad, but it's about automobiles.

No, you have no idea what's under the hood, you think what you want but I can
tell you in this case you are dead wrong. The group is about Corvettes, not just
automobiles, come in and take a swipe at the group topic and I see no reason why
I can't take a swipe back.

> Look youngster, I think I lived closer to most of that than you did.
> Barrage-ballon Site #37 was 100 yards from my house.  Three times, shrapnel
> fell out of the sky at night.

Was that the night they bombed the whale or just some more friendly fire? I
lived by a power dam, much more difficult to camouflage, and those blimps were
there for years and that is one of the things I still see in my dream. I have no
idea why because I'm looking at it through a hole in my house roof and that
never happened. Must have been all of the chatter from the big folk when they
got together.

>Kids dug foxholes and played war.  OK to be Germans vs. Yanks.  No one wanted
>to be a Jap.
>
> Blackout was not a drill. We covered all windows save for the bedrooms--every
> night.  We used flashlights with pin holes to find the toilet at night.  We
> had an 'A' ticket for the car -- that got my Mom 2 gallons of gas a week.

Where the hell did you get flashlights, all we had were kerosene lanterns with
shades. No electricity so the blackout rooms were where the lamps were for about
3 years. I now have those coupon books that were left now that Mom and Dad are
gone.

> Across the street from my school, MGM studio wasn't hidden.  It's sound stages
> were the intended target if the Japanese aimed for Douglas Aircraft-Santa
> Monica.  (which was hidden under netting with fake houses and phone poles on
> top.)

> I was there when my grandmother and two of my aunts earned the title of <gold
> star mother.>  My Dad, a Seabee "visited" seven different rocks as the U.S.
> clawed its way across the Pacific.  Earned a purple heart but he made it back
> in one piece.  I'm very thankful for having him as my hands-on mentor from age
> 11 onward.  Three of my cousins weren't as lucky.

I still have one living cousin that refused to take out a kamikaze pilot, with
twin 50s, that missed his ship and crashed. Instead picked him up with the
landing craft he was piloting and he turned out to be a college graduate from
Chicago. He was most helpful as an interpeter plus one hell of a cook as I was
told. That's the way I view the Japanese and their culture, helpful to nearly a
fault. They just had some really bad guidance plus some very bad times 100 years
ago.

> I do not like wars.  I gritted my teeth as folks got splattered when I pulled
> the trigger.  I cursed myself when I got sloppy and missed them. I swore when
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> train the Iranians in the early '70s.  Work ethic wasn't there and their
> brains were located somewhere below their belt lines.

> It's over -- let go.  Pull the scab off and get rid of the pus.  It's about
> cars.  Good ones, better ones and fun ones.  Life is too damn short to hang on
> to hate.

You missed my point completely, I dislike and reserve the right to reply in
kind, if I choose, when I'm nicked by someone that thinks it fun to come in and
jab at something he knows nothing about.

> When it's habitable back there, go for a ride.  I've got the day off and am
> about to go trade the C4 for the C5 and do the same.  73 deg here right now,
> wind has died down.  We pray that the fire hazard will subside and we won't
> loose any more fire fighters this year. --
> PJ

Can you define "habitable" for me, is that with high winds, fires, choking
smoke, mud slides, earthquakes, and heavy rains? The only thing I did to drive
the Corvette today was add some air pressure to compensate for the 20 degree
weather. It has been 3 days since I drove the '72 but now the lawn tractor and
the snow plow are both parked in front of it.

Signature

Dad
05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd

PJ - 06 Dec 2006 05:41 GMT
I have the most respect for singularly outstanding expertise in this group.

I appologize for having erred.

Regards ... PJ
PJ - 05 Dec 2006 17:34 GMT
Nice summary Tom and I'll rant down below.

> I think the way this whole discussion is going should be a lesson to put a
> few smileys and frowns and such in to let a few people know which way they
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> couch in my truck a few weeks ago.  It would have been really hard to do in
> the Vette.  

I saw a C4 heading down the freeway for Mexico with a double sized
mattress wedged into the hatchback last weekend.  Sad sight.  Looked
away, didn't wave!

But those other needs also raise the specialness level of the
> Corvette. When I had my '67 big block coupe, I drove it as my daily driver.
> To work, to school, to whatever.  After awhile, it was just a car.  I hadn't
> gotten rid of my '69 Charger and so I began driving it to work when I blew
> the rear out of the '67.

I turned the C4 into a commuter since it was less expensive to operate
(at least for two or three years) than the G35X the company had been
leasing for me.  Better gas mileage and the depreciation on a C4 is all
done.  It's a helluva lot more fun too--most of the Lexus, BMW and
Murano set wouldn't agree but, I was here first and really don't give a
hoot.

 When I got back in the Vette after two weeks of not having it, it was
> GREAT!!!!!!  And a few more !!!!
>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>>> I know that Honda will never be a performance car or in the same
>>> league but we can say it the other way too.

That said, I think a good
>>> pair of cars would be a Honda and a Corvette so when the vette is in
>>> repair, the Honda can take over.  I don't think there is a lot of
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>> That's stupid, if you going to buy two cars, you may as well get another
>> 'vette, that way you don't have to stoop to driving a honda.

OK guys, I really can't believe this Honda bashing -- perhaps I'm taking
everyone to seriously and this is just a bad joke.

I've been doing this longer than 90% of you--learned to drive in my
Mom's car using using a GM 'safety-shift' transmission.  What marque &
model year ??  Even bet that Dad might not remember.

First hands on with a 'vette in late '54.  Had to start dating the local
Chevy dealer's daughter to get those rides.  Seemed more crude than my
MG at the time but was a nice ride.

I've not personally owned a Honda automobile, did own one Honda bike.
Both of my kids (who make far more $$ than I and don't mind spending on
fine cars) have had at least one Honda in their garages since the late
'80s.  And models have varied-- CRX, Accords, Civics, Odyssey, & Pilots.
 It seems that Honda has always built a car to meet their particular
needs as they have grown up. (Commuting, camping, hauling the kids etc.)
I've driven all of those and occasionally borrowed one for a particular
task. I think all those cars have been well engineered to task.

When I travel to the Northwest or to the East coast I'm usually in a
U.S. mid, compact or foreign buzz box.  But, on rare occasions I do get
an older Honda (these seem to appear when Budget or Hertz is low on
inventory and when I refuse to 'upgrade' to an SUV; then, tell the
counter clerk that I'll wait for a compact or go to the competition.)  I
find that most Hondas are well balanced in design.  They are nimble,
quiet, economical and seem to hold up well as they age in the rental
business.

Last trip I wound up with a very new, small Chrysler product -- cute,
well thought-out interior & stowage; but, horrid transmission, lousy
engine control, powertrain mount resonance between 20 and 35 mph, bad
engine vibe above 65mph, severe understeer into turns and a roll center
that must have been two inches below the road surface (shades of the
deux-cheveau). If Walter P. was still alive it wouldn't have had the
brand name on it!  I'm sure Honda would not have put their name on it.

I think that anyone who says that Honda will never be a performance
oriented company has had blinders on for the last 5 years.  Open your
eyes guys!

Honda grew up in the motorcycle business in the '50s.  I brought a Honda
bike back from Japan in 1961 and found it well engineered, durable and
easy to maintain.  While in Key West, it took a heavy pelting from coral
dust (we called that 'morral') and I sorrowfully left it there in rather
sad shape--but it ran well for the guy who bought it.

During the previous century, many of the better European and Asian
automotive engines have sprung from the loins of motorcycle engineering.
 Honda has been no exception, witness Indy.  (Nay-sayers shout that
Honda 'unfairly' bought into Indy with their corporate bankroll.)  Really?

I'd say Honda 'bought into Indy' with 60 years of engineering dedicated
to performance and endurance.

I don't have any rice my garage.  My countrymen built me damn fine stuff
to fly and those planes brought me back to the 'boat' on a regular basis
for over 20 years.  I buy the cars my countrymen build (albeit with some
help from Canada and other countries).  (Hope Waggoner is right on his
plug-in hybrid -- I might buy one!)

Signature

PJ
2-vettes, 1-GMC, 1-Buick

Dad - 05 Dec 2006 18:02 GMT
> I've been doing this longer than 90% of you--learned to drive in my Mom's car
> using using a GM 'safety-shift' transmission.  What marque & model year ??
> Even bet that Dad might not remember.

Came out in the mid thirties and died in 1939, Cadillac, Olds, and a few Buicks.
The 1929 Dodge I started driving did not have that kind of refinement.

> First hands on with a 'vette in late '54.  Had to start dating the local Chevy
> dealer's daughter to get those rides.  Seemed more crude than my MG at the
> time but was a nice ride.

Didn't stoop that far, (oops, should I put a smiley there, nah), bought my own
and then started dating a girl from Toledo whose dad bought her one for her
birthday, never liked it as it was a lime green. They had a better name for it
than that, Cascade Green, in '56.

> I don't have any rice my garage.  My countrymen built me damn fine stuff to
> fly and those planes brought me back to the 'boat' on a regular basis for over
> 20 years.  I buy the cars my countrymen build (albeit with some help from
> Canada and other countries).  (Hope Waggoner is right on his plug-in hybrid --  
> I might buy one!)

One of my younger uncles and 2 aunts built trainers and bombers in Wayne, Willow
Run. Doubt one of those brought you home but may have helped in some way.

Never doubted the honda for what it is and what it has become and have loads of
respect for how he built his company. Just don't need to own one, thank you.

Signature

Dad
05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd

CardsFan - 05 Dec 2006 21:53 GMT
> Nice summary Tom and I'll rant down below.

<snip>

> I don't have any rice my garage.  My countrymen built me damn fine stuff
> to fly and those planes brought me back to the 'boat' on a regular basis
> for over 20 years.  I buy the cars my countrymen build (albeit with some
> help from Canada and other countries).  (Hope Waggoner is right on his
> plug-in hybrid -- I might buy one!)

And my Acura TL was built by Americans in Marysville, Ohio.  (Would John
Wayne tell me to smile when I say that?)

AJM
'93 Ruby coupe, 6 sp (both tops)

P.S.  A lot of my friends build Subarus, and soon will be be building
Camrys, right in my town.  Those jobs are highly sought-after around here.
No Vette Yet - 06 Dec 2006 13:45 GMT
>I think the way this whole discussion is going should be a lesson to put a
>few smileys and frowns and such in to let a few people know which way they
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>world's greatest car, how many actually driving a Corvette and only a
>Corvette and never drive anything else?

Thank you for a little understanding.  

I know "Dad" is very respected in this newsgroup but he seems to be a
bit grouchy in my opinion.  Corvettes are fine cars but no need to
think they are the only ones.

And I think you brought up a good point about driving another car
makes you appreciate your Corvette more.  A very interesting point to
consider when buying the Corvette too.

thanks.
Dad - 06 Dec 2006 16:27 GMT
>>I think the way this whole discussion is going should be a lesson to put a
>>few smileys and frowns and such in to let a few people know which way they
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Thank you for a little understanding.

I've driven over 60 automobiles in my life, sadly not all of them were
Corvettes. Tom and I have disagreed on at least one item that became quite a
lengthy discussion in which I learned from, although I still try not to push
punctured tire limits like he does. Look it up, something you should be aware of
running Runflats on a Corvette. Tom's knowledge will eclipse mine in the engine
department and has helped me in the past.

> I know "Dad" is very respected in this newsgroup but he seems to be a
> bit grouchy in my opinion.  Corvettes are fine cars but no need to
> think they are the only ones.

I have mentioned them but never, as I recall, tried to tell someone which they
should drive. Never in my wildest dreams or grouchy attitude would I go to a
non-related automobile site and tell them to drive something else. Actually the
first thing you see is ALT.AUTOS.CORVETTE so my guess would be that it is about
the Corvette as that's the only name I see in the subject header.

> And I think you brought up a good point about driving another car
> makes you appreciate your Corvette more.  A very interesting point to
> consider when buying the Corvette too.

I appreciate the Corvette for what it is, not what someone else thinks it is.
Its value to me has grown for the fifty years that I've driven them and equally
as much when I had to drive something else because of financial limits while the
family was growing up. The one thing you will find I'm very intolerant about is
people that own them just to own them. To me it was never about its status some
like to bestow on it, driving it was its reward to me. Few people in my club, 3
out of 56, drive their Corvette year round, equally as few a number scoff at
driving them that way.

> thanks.

You can judge me grouchy if you want and if you're around this group very long
you will see many trolls, spamm artists, and just plain jerks come and go. Some
of that grouchiness was earned by that type of posts and will happen again. Most
times I don't reply, just kill file them. With that in mind you are most welcome
to this open news group even with the manner you came in and hopefully be able
to gain a true interest in the Corvette.

Signature

Dad
05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd

Tom in Missouri - 06 Dec 2006 17:49 GMT
> I've driven over 60 automobiles in my life, sadly not all of them were
> Corvettes. Tom and I have disagreed on at least one item that became quite
> a lengthy discussion in which I learned from, although I still try not to
> push punctured tire limits like he does. Look it up, something you should
> be aware of running Runflats on a Corvette. Tom's knowledge will eclipse
> mine in the engine department and has helped me in the past.

If we didn't disagree occasionally, what good would this group be?  Everyone
sitting around agreeing that ____ is the best color, you should only use
_____ tires, and that 62.5 mph is the only speed to drive or some nonsense
like that.

It is the disagreement of best that often brings out the knowledge people
need.  Not knock down fights, just disagreeing over issues.

As part of that, Dad has experience in paint and bodywork that has helped me
on more than one occasion.  Would I let any of the issues we disagred on
prevent meeting for dinner is the chance came up? Not on your life!

>> I know "Dad" is very respected in this newsgroup but he seems to be a
>> bit grouchy in my opinion.  Corvettes are fine cars but no need to
>> think they are the only ones.

While not trying to say what Dad thinks or feels, I think he made his
feelings quite clear.  People with traumatic experiences often have a reason
not to do things others can't understand.  His experiences with the Japanese
and WWII account for that and I didnt know he has them. But I do now and
respect his view.

I had a friend who was a POW in Viet Nam. He won't eat Chinese or similar
food to this day. Others I knew in Viet Nam love Thai, Chinese, Vietnames
and other Asian dishes. It is all about experiences.

I had a great uncle killed on Lexington. Several great-uncles joined the
next day to go "kill the japs!"  Several of them to the day they died had
never owned or used a Japanese car and tried to not have any Japanese-made
items.  In this world of electronics, though, that has become nearly
impossible.

> I appreciate the Corvette for what it is, not what someone else thinks it
> is. Its value to me has grown for the fifty years that I've driven them
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Corvette year round, equally as few a number scoff at driving them that
> way.

I think driving them is all about choices and desires. I think those that
can and do drive them every day are lucky.

To me, it is like chocolate cake. I like chocolate cake, Cut me a big moist
piece and you have made a friend. But cut me one every day, and after
awhile, I won't want it. Is the chocolate cake any worse? No. I just want a
change.  or a break.  And I also like other flavors of cake. or pie. or
whatever.  Just not all others and not better than chocolate cake.

And while only my first one was daily driver in that it was driven daily,
the others were not stored in barns or garages for months on end. Financial
and other concerns meant they weren't the only and every drive I made. I had
a Vega for the commute to work and school. I was doing about 400 miles a
week for commuting during the gas crisis.  I know, it was an outrageous $.60
a gallon.  But at the time and with the paycheck, it was significant and so
the 25 mpg Vega was the more important choice than the 10 mpg Corvette.
Still, the Corvette often made that trip. It probably averaged out to almost
2 days a week over the long run, but by it not being the daily-only car
commuter, I got lower insurance, I saved gas money, and I enjoyed it much
more.

The same with the '95 Neon I bought a few years ago. I was commuting a 800
mile week. I was getting an oil change every 4 weeks. I didn't want to
subject the Corvette to that much mileage. I didn't want to pay the gas for
that on the van. What was a benefit was that the Neon handled like a go
kart, unlike the wife's Corolla and other small rental cars I had used. So
there was still a fun factor. Would it replace the Corvette? No way.  Would
I recommend one to someone? Sure, if they are looking for a fun commuter.
After all, Chrysler built the '95 ACR as a factory race car for SCCA racing.

I was not and am not one of those guys that parks it for weeks at a time, or
for the 3 or 4 months of winter. I won't drive it daily in salt-melted
slush, but I won't panic because it rained or snowed on me.  The only time I
really regretted the rain was once while working down in Florida. I got up
to go north to see the shuttle launch. I opened the door and it was raining.
That was a really drag, as I had spent  the day before cleaning and waxing,
so I really hated to take the Corvette out and get it wet and dirty.  By the
time I got up to Cocoa, the sun was up, the rain was gone, and soon I had
the top down and having fun. If I had been like many and taken the daily
driver, I would have missed out on all of that. Simply over a bit of rain.
No Vette Yet - 08 Dec 2006 19:36 GMT
>>>I think the way this whole discussion is going should be a lesson to put a
>>>few smileys and frowns and such in to let a few people know which way they
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>to this open news group even with the manner you came in and hopefully be able
>to gain a true interest in the Corvette.

Thank you and I'll try to behave myself <grin>.   And again I
apologize to you and anyone else I offended.  

Actually its nice / refreshing to see a person so devoted to their
love of cars / corvettes over many years.  

Outa curiousity, which one was your favorite and why?
Dad - 08 Dec 2006 21:43 GMT
Snip
>>You can judge me grouchy if you want and if you're around this group very long
>>you will see many trolls, spamm artists, and just plain jerks come and go.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Outa curiousity, which one was your favorite and why?

That's easy, the one 10 foot from me that I can walk out to and get in and
drive. They were all the same to me, in the year they were made they were the
best thing on the road. It would be hard to say what a new Corvette owner would
feel driving a car 50 years old because it was new when I drove it. Every year
they became more comfortable, faster, smoother, more efficient, and just plain
fun to drive. Other than that the one with the most memories was the '61,
besides being married and bringing my first son home from the hospital I lived
in it on the road for a company I worked for at the time.

Yesterday I got caught in a blinding snow storm and was glad it was only 10 more
miles to home. Adding to the poor visibility, the low silhouette and being
silver makes it hard for other drivers to see. Plus the deer were moving that
evening and everything considered I didn't need to be out in it.

When I retired I bought a van to travel in, it has 30K on it and during the same
period of time I've put 80K on 3 Corvettes.

Simple answer to your question is that the best one is the one you're driving.
No Vette Yet - 09 Dec 2006 20:23 GMT
> --snip--

Thanks Dad for the reply.  

Sounds like you are pretty brave to drive your Corvette in the snowy
conditions but I gather this isn't the first time for you.  Now that I
live in the south, snow and ice driving is just a memory but I used to
live in NY and learned from experience how to drive on both.  I don't
mind driving on snow if I must but I don't like driving on ice.  I
have memories of both.

Be careful driving up there and let me shut up and just let others
discuss their Corvettes.
Honda Lives - 30 Nov 2006 15:44 GMT
>snip

>> --snip --

OT but I saw a real nice '06 or '07 (not sure) dark blue vette
yesterday.  I wouldn't classify it as Navy Blue but rather medium to
dark blue.  I'm not up on the colors offered by Chevrolet right now
but as it went by, it definitely caught my eye.  I don't recall ever
seeing a vette that color before.  It was nice looking.  When I went
home to joke about buying a car like that the same color, I told one
of my teenage daughters that I was having a mid life crisis and needed
it.  She said I wasn't having a mid life crisis but more like an end
of life crisis.  I don't think she's into sport cars that much.  
Oh well.
'Key - 30 Nov 2006 02:38 GMT
>>> No wonder foreign cars are taking over the market...what
>>> a lot of crap
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> "reliable" Honda and
> you'll even have money left over to feed your family :-)

if it had to be explained ?
you probably wouldn't understand :-)

Signature

"Key"
=====

Honda Lives - 30 Nov 2006 15:29 GMT
>>>> No wonder foreign cars are taking over the market...what
>>>> a lot of crap
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>if it had to be explained ?
>you probably wouldn't understand :-)

I agree but that isn't a problem for me :-) .
'Key - 30 Nov 2006 17:54 GMT
>>> On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:46:09 -0800, PJ
>>> <pj4380@yahoo.com>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> I agree but that isn't a problem for me :-) .

I was also kiddin :-)

Signature

"Key"
=====

My Name Is Nobody - 01 Dec 2006 01:58 GMT
>>> No wonder foreign cars are taking over the market...what a lot of crap
>>> to put up with.  Does GM have any engineers that know anything...????
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Guess it's time to trade in those cars and buy a "reliable" Honda and
> you'll even have money left over to feed your family :-)

Guess I can't bite my tongue....  :-)

Don't worry yourself too much about my family starving, there is absolutely
no risk of that in this lifetime.  Since you are so concerned with my
finances, let me set your mind at ease.  I have plenty of money to live out
my life quite comfortably, and indulge whole heartedly in my hobbies, but I
do appreciate your concern.

As to me buying or driving a Honda, that isn't going happen in this lifetime
either!  I would no more buy or drive a Honda than I would a Yugo or Kia.

There are some things I WILL NEVER do, wear a dress, become a citizen of
another country, buy a Honda...  etc.

Are you starting to get the picture?
Honda Lives - 01 Dec 2006 06:14 GMT
>>>> No wonder foreign cars are taking over the market...what a lot of crap
>>>> to put up with.  Does GM have any engineers that know anything...????
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
>Are you starting to get the picture?

Yes.  I think my father was the same way.  

I on the other hand am willing to change as the need fits.  If there
isn't a need, then I won't change.
PJ - 28 Nov 2006 23:17 GMT
> No wonder foreign cars are taking over the market...what a lot of crap
> to put up with.  Does GM have any engineers that know anything...????

Try this:

'====================== start quote ====================

Thanks. I know what the codes mean from the wonderful internet.

Even when the codes first appeared, there were no other symptoms of
trouble; the pump was actually running during a cold engine start,
there was no sign of pump corrosion, all the hoses looked OK.

The check engine light went out by itself about a week ago and has
stayed off. I thought one needed an OBD reader to reset these warnings.
any comments?

Jeff Strickland wrote:
> > P1421 and P1432? (not P1423)
> >
> > These codes say that the secondary air system is not working
correctly. The
> > secondary air is the Air Pump and its plumbing that punps fresh air
into the
> > exhaust stream immediately after the exhaust leaves the head and
enters the
> > exhaust mainfold.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> > >
>> > > A search of the net finds that these codes indicate low oxygen
in both
>> > > exhaust manifolds. Nothing serious though - the oxygen is
delivered by
>> > > the secondary air pump for about 100 seconds after a cold start
- now I
>> > > know what that thing is that sounds like a vacuum cleaner.
>> > >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> > >
>> > > So I browsed around some more, and found that a relay in the
main power
>> > > distribution box can be bad, giving these codes. Pulled it and
>> > > re-installed the same one, went to Autozone and had the codes reset.
>> > >
>> > > Codes came back a few weeks later - pump still hums normally
during a
>> > > cold start, so I know it's not a serious problem, but does
anyone have
>> > > an idea what the problem is. Intermittently bad relay is my best
guess.

>> > > Cheers

'===================== quoted from alt.autos.bmw =================
Just thot you'd like to know
Signature

PJ

Bob I - 01 Dec 2006 00:27 GMT
> No wonder foreign cars are taking over the market...what a lot of crap
> to put up with.  Does GM have any engineers that know anything...????

IF that were the case, you would be a primo engineer!
Jon - 20 Nov 2006 22:50 GMT
Common problem.  From the Corvette Forum:
Q I still get the "Pull Key and Wait 10 Seconds" message and "Service
Steering Column Lock" message? What do I do now?

A1 Sometimes the latching relay in the CLB can get out of sync sending
the wrong status to your BCM. This has happened to a few folks even with
the CLB installed. The CLB latching relay gets out of sync with the BCM
possibly due to shock, vibration or relay contact bounce during
switching which confused the BCM. The CLB does not physically know which
state it should be in; it only switches from one state to the other when
it receives a signal from the BCM. The BCM can be reset by pulling Fuse
23 and waiting 10 seconds.

A2 Check to make sure Fuse 25 in passenger footwell is good.

A3 Verify the black wire to your ECL or CLB is grounded (zero ohms
resistance).

A5 Verify the green wire to the ECL or CLB is shorted to ground while in
the "UNLOCKED" position and +12Vdc while in the "LOCKED" position.

> 98 C5 Coupe
> DIC states Pull key wait 10 seconds then says service column lock...
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I would like some input on this if anybody has had this problem
> Thx
ZÿRiX - 21 Nov 2006 00:56 GMT
Thx I will look into this with a friends help as he is a little more
familiar with Vette's...

Signature

        ZÿRiX
(¯`'..(<>..<>)..'´¯)

> Common problem.  From the Corvette Forum:
> Q I still get the "Pull Key and Wait 10 Seconds" message and "Service
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>> I would like some input on this if anybody has had this problem
>> Thx
 
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