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Car Forum / Chevrolet / Chevrolet Corvette / January 2007

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Low end buyer advice

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Dale DeRemer - 21 Dec 2006 00:39 GMT
I am looking to buy my first Corvette. It's a toy, I'm in Ohio, so I can
only drive it about 1/2 of the year. I feel guilty spending money on a toy,
so I'm limiting myself to cars under $10k. I located a good candidate. A
1986. The owner wants $8500. It has some minor issues, but it's very strong.
The interior is almost perfect for a 20 year old car. On to my questions:

Is 1986 a decent year for Corvettes?
Are there characteristic problems with 1986 Corvettes I should watch for?
Is this car reasonably realiable?
I could buy now, or wait a year, save a few bucks and start looking at early
90's Corvettes, is that a better plan?

Thanks in advance for any input / advice.
'Key - 21 Dec 2006 15:32 GMT
>I am looking to buy my first Corvette. It's a toy, I'm in
>Ohio, so I can only drive it about 1/2 of the year. I feel
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance for any input / advice.

I have an 84/c4.
if I had it to do again?
I would have got a c-5...

my2¢
Signature

"Key"
========

Dad - 21 Dec 2006 15:53 GMT
>>I am looking to buy my first Corvette. It's a toy, I'm in Ohio, so I can only
>>drive it about 1/2 of the year. I feel guilty spending money on a toy, so I'm
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> I would have got a c-5...
> my2¢
Amen, but will be hard to find at his available dollars.
Tom in Missouri - 21 Dec 2006 16:14 GMT
I think you will like the '90s better.  However, that could be a year away
and some of them have just as much expense associated with fixing/keeping as
the '80s cars do.

The same rules apply to these as most Corvettes. Little problems can be very
expensive.  So the sales pitch of "minor issues" can cost you big dollars,
making what seems like a deal to be a hole you throw money in.

Paint - clear coats often peel. Don't let the pitch "just needs paint" or
"just needs buffed or cleared" make you think it is a deal. You are into
several thousand dollars to fix. $4000 is the average Corvette paint job,
and depending on the mess you may have, it could be more.

Electronics - the C4 began the flirtation with electronics everywhere.
Fortunately, there is a cottage industry to support these 25 year old
electronic designs and components. However, it comes with a cost.  Check
these prices for anything you can find wrong before.  The LCD I believe is a
$300 issue for almost anything wrong.

I missed out on an '87 a month ago that looked great in pictures. It was
supposed to run good with an occasional miss.  The guy had to sell, and it
was down to $4500. I didn't get to check it out, so all I have is what he
said. How does yours compare?

Oops, the pictures are gone for that one.

Try this '89 for $8900.  How does it compare?
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1558081

This '86 for $5000
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1495778

This '88 for $5500
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1576860

There is no reason not to buy one from several hundred miles away if you can
save enough money. A C4 should be able to make a 500 or 1000 mile drive with
no problems, or else you don't want it. And it is the thing memories are
made of, a long road trip in a Corvette.  Ask Dad, he crisscrosses the
country all the time in one.

With the overdrive, the gas expense will be less than you think, as you
should be cruising along at over 20 mpg easily with 25 mpg probable. So 20
or so gallons of gas for 500 miles is really a bargain if you can save $1000
or more.

Go check out this link and other places first. Don't buy the first you see,
because it is kind of like marrying the first girl that takes you to bed.
Some time later, you may discover all you had in common was that one wild
passion, and the rest is terrible.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=54

Try to stay under 100,000 miles, however, if you find one well-cared for at
110,000 or such, don't immediately dismiss it.

>I am looking to buy my first Corvette. It's a toy, I'm in Ohio, so I can
>only drive it about 1/2 of the year. I feel guilty spending money on a toy,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance for any input / advice.
Lone Wolf - 21 Dec 2006 19:48 GMT
Oh I should say..with a Vette there are NO minor issues.....be careful
..!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dale DeRemer - 22 Dec 2006 14:47 GMT
Thanks Tom.
This is not the first Corvette I've looked at. I've looked at 4, (3
seriously), driven 3.
I went to see an '85 that looked great in pictures, at a small dealer about
40 miles from
me. It was horrible. Didn't even drive it.
Saw an '88 at a "classic" dealer near me. 80k miles, interior was tired, but
it was nice
otherwise, or so I thought. I drove it, not much punch, and then, it stalled
out on me. I
ran from that one.
The current candidate is an '86 from a private owner. I can't get a read on
the guy. I don't
know for sure if he's the kind of guy you should buy a car from. :) But, the
minor issues:
Someone keyed the car. 2 scratches, one on the door, one on the front fender
area. Each
scratch about 6" long. Not terribly deep. But the paint is new within the
last 4 years.
Nice and shiny white. The antenna is stuck in the up position. The radio was
replaced with
an aftermarket. The radio part doesn't work, but the CD player part sounds
great. The
heater/ac fan doesn't work at "high". Works on medium and low settings. It
has a cracked
marker light, and the front trim, (nose), is a little high on the passenger
side. Finally, the
power windows go up and down VERY slowly.
The good: 74k miles. New carpet. Interior is very good, dash all works. It
does have the
CD player and good speakers. The paint is very good where not scratched. It
has '96 rims
with Z rated tires, tires have good tread. Newer exhaust, K&N intake, and
chip in the engine.
It's very strong, very responsive. It's a little creaky, even for a
Corvette, but seems to ride
as it should.
He wants 8500, I was thinking of offering 7k and seeing where it goes.

>I think you will like the '90s better.  However, that could be a year away
> and some of them have just as much expense associated with fixing/keeping
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any input / advice.
Lone Wolf - 22 Dec 2006 16:00 GMT
Most of the things you think are good features only go to show that the
current owner has trashed the car with after market crap ... like the
radio,,,??? Best buy special..?? K& N filter etc..all items used to increase
HP..none of witch really do much good..wheels...not original..knock off a
few hundred bucks..antenna..another hundred or so..scratched paint..sever
hundred to blend and match..and now you don't have the original paint. Car
still for sale..ask yourself why...??? Clean title..flood damage...do a
title check..if still interested offer $5000 or dealer trade whichever is
less ....leave your phone # and walk away.Remember aftermarket items on a
Vette often tend to decrease its value..
Also..don't you have a clue what to look for before you run all over the
place looking for a Vette.

Avoid all dealers
Avoid all young drivers
Avoid all second /third/fourth owners
Avoid all Borla /K&N /chip updated cars.
Avoid any car owned by females.
Dale DeRemer - 23 Dec 2006 03:19 GMT
I guess it comes down to what each buyer wants. I'm not looking for a show
car, or a car to turn into a show car. What I want is a car that is fun.
I've wanted a Corvette since I was about 15. I understand that collectors
care about keeping a car factory. I personally think the 84-87? wheels are
ugly. A CD player is an advantage, I like CDs. The intake/exhaust change, it
really does add HP. The chip... that doesn't excite me.
What I want is a Corvette that is fun to drive, that I can occassionally
take to a track and open it up, (club sponsored events). I would like it to
be as reliable as I can reasonably expect.

I appriciate the advice. My biggest challenge at this point is to remain
patient. :)

> Most of the things you think are good features only go to show that the
> current owner has trashed the car with after market crap ... like the
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Avoid all Borla /K&N /chip updated cars.
> Avoid any car owned by females.
tww - 25 Dec 2006 16:53 GMT
> I think you will like the '90s better.  However, that could be a year away
> and some of them have just as much expense associated with fixing/keeping as
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
> Try to stay under 100,000 miles, however, if you find one well-cared for at
> 110,000 or such, don't immediately dismiss it.

Great advice! I would add to that the need for a decent shop for the fixes
and a few thou available -- unless the prospective owner is
mechanically/electroncally adept. In the early C-3 days I know I was able to
cope with routine repairs that today I don't think I would or could handle.
And. electrical problems are the worst when you consider aging electronics.
I, too have thought about a mid 90s C-4 as a possible weekender, but
remember all too well the frustrations of something that you cannot get
fixed anywhere.

> >I am looking to buy my first Corvette. It's a toy, I'm in Ohio, so I can
> >only drive it about 1/2 of the year. I feel guilty spending money on a toy,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any input / advice.
Vern - 21 Dec 2006 16:44 GMT
> I am looking to buy my first Corvette. It's a toy, I'm in Ohio, so I can
> only drive it about 1/2 of the year. I feel guilty spending money on a toy,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance for any input / advice.

Dale,

I was in the same position 2 years ago. I lucked out and found out my
wife's 1st cousin had a 92 C4 in 1- condx for sale for $10K. The
drawback was that it had 106K mi.

I bought it anyway and have been happy with it having to replace the
battery and water pump.

If you are used to driving a luxury car you are in for a shock. The C4
rides rough and is not particularly quiet. On the other hand its a good
freeway cruiser and I get about 28 mpg there. The standard seats have
excellent support as I have a bad back and can drive 8 hrs with no pain
!

The breakpoint for power seems to be 92 as it acquired the LT1 300hp
engine whereas the 91 model with the L98 had only 240hp.

The 80's C4's also had the all digital dash where I have analog and
digital. They had smaller wheels and tires. I think in 1989 they went
to the 9.5" wheels and 275/40-17's all around. Those big tires to make
it steer hard IMO, as they narrowed them for 1994 I think.

Also be aware that I believe the a/c wasn't fitted with R-134A until
1994. Mine was already converted.

The C4 is hard to get in and out of with the high sills. That makes the
C5 more attractive anong with the extra power of the LS4 is it ?

All I can say is to read, check auctions and be patient.

I once saw a book in B&N "101 projects for your C4 Corvette" I believe
it was called. It gave all the problems and their fixes with C4's and
strengths. I'm kicking myself for not buying it !

Good Luck !

~ Vern
WayneC - 21 Dec 2006 17:22 GMT
>> I am looking to buy my first Corvette. It's a toy, I'm in Ohio, so I can
>> only drive it about 1/2 of the year. I feel guilty spending money on a toy,
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>
> ~ Vern

Vern, you can get it here:   http://tinyurl.com/y3aol9
Vern - 22 Dec 2006 00:10 GMT
> >> I am looking to buy my first Corvette. It's a toy, I'm in Ohio, so I can
> >> only drive it about 1/2 of the year. I feel guilty spending money on a toy,
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
> >
> Vern, you can get it here:   http://tinyurl.com/y3aol9

Wayne....you be the man !
Lone Wolf - 21 Dec 2006 19:45 GMT
Look on ebay ..1984-87 Vette prices are pretty low..$8500 for a 1986 seems
on the hi side....but like everything else it depends on
mileage/condition...etc.etc.

I bought a beautiful 1993 Vette on ebay for $9500....perfect condition low
miles....so you 86 does NOT appear to be a bargain..I would shoot for at
least a 1990 because of the several updates that took effect that
year....1994-96 even better..
PJ - 22 Dec 2006 18:01 GMT
> I am looking to buy my first Corvette. It's a toy, I'm in Ohio, so I can
> only drive it about 1/2 of the year. I feel guilty spending money on a toy,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance for any input / advice.

Hello Dale,

Never give up on having a toy or two.  Dad's general advice on 'vettes
holds particularly true for the C4s -- as the years went on they got
better.  Auto transmission was pretty mature from the start.  For a
stick, avoid the earlier 4+3--most of these have been expensive to keep
going.  Also worth avoiding opti-spark ignition as most of these cars
will need some cooling system maintenance (new water pump etc.)

The comments on the C4's immature electronics are worth noting.
Generally those problems are less frequently seen in the later C4s.
Electronic climate control problems seem to affect all years.

You would probably be better off carrying out a thorough search for a
later '94, '95 or '96 C4.  Suggest <www.autotrader.com>, anydistance.
Be patient. You'll see the good, the bad and the ugly -- enjoy.

When I got my C5, I put my '89 up for sale.  Clean, auto '89, 55K miles.
 No takers at $ 9K and none at $ 8500.  I disposed of my leased sedan
and put the C4 into regular service on the freeway.  Maintenance will
run more than on the leased car but the low depreciation and fun makes
it worthwhile.

Signature

PJ
'89 auto coupe, '02 6-spd coupe

labtech1 - 22 Dec 2006 18:33 GMT
The one 'nice' thing about buying a used older 'vette is, you'll learn all
about them.
Restoring, can be a fun and gratifying hobby. Since this is a 'toy', I think
you're making
a good choice, you'll have plenty of things to 'play' with.

> I am looking to buy my first Corvette. It's a toy, I'm in Ohio, so I can
> only drive it about 1/2 of the year. I feel guilty spending money on a toy,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance for any input / advice.
WayneC - 25 Dec 2006 18:08 GMT
> I am looking to buy my first Corvette. It's a toy, I'm in Ohio, so I can
> only drive it about 1/2 of the year. I feel guilty spending money on a toy,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance for any input / advice.

  http://tinyurl.com/y5wopd
Art - 27 Dec 2006 11:51 GMT
I bought an '84 five years ago, I absolutly love it.  If you pay attention
to your car the maintenance is about 20% above normal but well worth the
enjoyment of driving a 'vette.  I have always been an avid sports car buff
so the rough ride doesn't bother me at all, I changed a few things on the
crossfire (IE: Lunati cam, solids, mallory ignition and headers, eliminated
the catalytic converters and made the exhaust true duals).  The additional
horsepower made my 'vette responsive and quick.  The good news is if you buy
at $7,000 you can always resell at $6,000.  $1000 for a year of driving a
'vette is cheap fun.

Art
'84 arrest red/red

> I am looking to buy my first Corvette. It's a toy, I'm in Ohio, so I can
> only drive it about 1/2 of the year. I feel guilty spending money on a toy,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance for any input / advice.
Lone Wolf - 27 Dec 2006 16:39 GMT
I don't think it is legal or proper to eliminate the cat converters....it's
people like you that are destroying this beautiful planet...you should be
fined and jailed for you total indifference to rest of us...and your Vette
should be impounded.

I hope some one from the Feds reads your post and takes the necessary
actions to get you off the road.
RicSeyler - 27 Dec 2006 21:02 GMT
Do you know how many toxins are in the computer you posted this rant on,
and the amount of toxins it took to manufacture, and the pollution that was
created providing you with the electricity to post this?

I'm a surfer and care about the planet, but you have to be reasonable.
The amount that
car will be driven is minuscule. Plus you can bet he has a good tune-up
on it.
You can also bet his daily driver has converters on it........ soooo we
should
just scrap all the classic cars out there. They don't have
converters...... geeze.

And "Needs to be Jailed"? Do you understand how many people are
warehoused our jails?
And what if he has a family, just kick the family to the curb if they
are deprived
of income. Lose his livelihood........... Like the "jail people that
possess a joint" bunch.
Double Geeze....

> I don't think it is legal or proper to eliminate the cat
> converters....it's people like you that are destroying this beautiful
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I hope some one from the Feds reads your post and takes the necessary
> actions to get you off the road.

Signature

Ric Seyler
Online Racing: RicSeyler
GPL Handicap 6.35
ricseyler@SPAMgulf.net
http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler
remove –SPAM- from email address
--------------------------------------
"Homer no function beer well without."
- H.J. Simpson

Bob I - 27 Dec 2006 21:15 GMT
Why don't YOU do the planet (and the rest of us)a favor and quit
generating carbon dioxide and methane.

> I don't think it is legal or proper to eliminate the cat
> converters....it's people like you that are destroying this beautiful
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I hope some one from the Feds reads your post and takes the necessary
> actions to get you off the road.
joevett - 30 Dec 2006 01:48 GMT
Legal,proper,whatever.     I better look out if the FEDS are scouring these
posts looking for  Vette owners without cat converters. I'm sure you believe
everything you read about global warming too.  My '86 runs better  w/o the
cat and I don't believe  it is any worse than them cows with excess gas : )

>I don't think it is legal or proper to eliminate the cat converters....it's
>people like you that are destroying this beautiful planet...you should be
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I hope some one from the Feds reads your post and takes the necessary
> actions to get you off the road.
dave - 27 Dec 2006 16:06 GMT
'Is 1986 a decent year for Corvettes?
Are there characteristic problems with 1986 Corvettes I should watch
for? Is this car reasonably realiable?
I could buy now, or wait a year, save a few bucks and start looking at
early 90's Corvettes, is that a better plan?'

REPLY:  Watch out for the 4 plus 3 manual trans. in late 1980's vettes ;
they were only out for 2  years due to the enormous problems and silly
engineering with them.  If i were you, id definitely opt for an early
1990's Vette with  LT1 motor which is durable  ,more power., and better
for resale.  Good improvements were had on Vettes after 1988  and i
think youll be happier going with an early 1990's .

Dave
Tom in Missouri - 02 Jan 2007 01:47 GMT
Close, but not quite.

The Borg Warner second version T-10 four speed (known to many as the Super
T-10) or ST-10, was used during the mid to late 70s in Corvettes, as well as
other vehicles. Borg Warner had some problems, and Doug Nash acquired the
rights to the ST-10. This may be one of the reasons for no 4 speed 1982
Corvettes, but I am not sure.

Corvette needed a manual and they needed an overdrive with the fuel economy
issues. Doug Nash offered a solution, his newly acquired Borg Warner-based
ST-10 with an electronic overdrive on the rear tail housing.  This type of
design had been used in several cars before this.

Doug Nash pulled a bit of a switch by using essentially an automatic
transmission on the tail of a manual transmission. It worked, it solved the
problem, and had potential to be great, but issued came up with the
automatic section.  See http://www.5speeds.com/dne.htm for more information.

The DNE 4+3 was a good idea in a cobbled design. It became available around
mid production in MY 1984 and ran through 1988. In 1989, the ZF six speed
became the available manual transmission as option MN-6.  BTW, there is no
such option ZF-6 which means a 6 speed transmission.

The basic ST-10 which is the main part of the 4+3 transmission is still
available through Richmond.
http://www.richmondgear.com/01fourspeed.html

If you look at their web page, you will see their line of Australian right
hand drive transmissions. (Kidding, they have mirror images posted by
mistake - sloppy web work.)

The 4+3 transmissions are not as good as the six speed, but they are not a
terrible thing with enormous problems.  Once rebuilt by some of the
specialized rebuilders now, you can expect long and good service from them.

While many lean towards the LT1, the first couple of years had problems with
the Opti Spark which is expensive. Not all have, as there are owners who
claim to still be running their original, however, it is more often to be a
problem.

Possibly the best choices are the '89-'91 L98 with the six speed or the '95
and '96 if you want the manual transmission cars.  While the 700R4 automatic
has its own weaknesses, they are typically a $1400 rebuild to get them into
good condition and have plenty of service.  The later ones are the best, of
course, however, the early ones most likely have been rebuilt by now and
should be as good.

> 'Is 1986 a decent year for Corvettes?
> Are there characteristic problems with 1986 Corvettes I should watch
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Dave
CardsFan - 02 Jan 2007 02:24 GMT
> Close, but not quite.
>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> are the best, of course, however, the early ones most likely have been
> rebuilt by now and should be as good.

I have a '93 40th anniversary coupe, and Tom is correct.  I had to replace
the opti and yes it cost too much.  Still, the original lasted 10 years and
77K miles, so the design isn't totally worthless.  I expect (hope) the
current one will last my lifetime.  I replaced it with a vented version from
a later year ,which maybe will solve the issue of condensation in there
rusting the cap.  Apparentlly the rust got so bad it was floating around and
causing havoc with the cylinders firing.  The damn thing sits under the
water pump, and in addition to that, the car spent its first seven years in
Salinas, California (near the ocean, not the desert).

As for the ZF six-speed, it is a pretty rugged trans.  IMO first gear winds
out a bit too soon, but thanks to the LT-1 the low end  grunt in second,
third and fourth is great.  Fifth has decent acceleration at highway speeds,
sixth is for fuel economy only.  I might mention that I installed a device
that defeats the 1-4 skip-shift "feature".

For anyone who's interested, I recently ordered a Corsa Power Pulse exhaust.
Not installed yet.  Is there any compelling reason to keep the original?
That is, after I install the new system and decide I like it and don't want
to switch back.

AJM
'93 Ruby coupe, 6 sp (both tops)
 
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