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Car Forum / Chevrolet / Chevrolet Corvette / May 2007

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94 surging/bucking problem

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charlie - 01 May 2007 17:52 GMT
hello

i have a problem with my 94 that is puzzling me.

6speed
140k miles
no ses light
service ride control (z07 option) light is on, but that is a bad servo that
i know about
no other indicators on
new battery
alternator normal output
all other temp indicators in normal ranges

the symptoms started a few months ago. in top gear at high way speeds, it
will seem to miss when a demand is placed on the engine (going up a hill,
passing, etc). in the ensuing months, it seems to have gotten worse, in that
it now:

at idle (which used to be around 800rpm), it would start to hunt, going from
800-2000, with no throttle input. during around town driving, say in 4th at
45, the engine would speed up so the car would accelerate, with no throttle
changes being done by me. the pedal doesn't move under my foot, so it's not
a spring, i believe.

i replaced the iac valve and airfilter at this point. when the old one iac
was removed, it had a lot of crud on it. i cleaned out the opening to the
throttlebody, but didn't take it off for a complete cleaning. i also
replaced the water temp sensor, as i noticed the harness connector was
cracked.

the problem has now changed, in that the idle has dropped to an abnormal low
of 400 and seems to almost stall. it still has the missing and bucking at
constant speeds, and also misses pulling away from a stop.

i took it to my local mechanic, whom i've had for about 20 years. he noticed
that every time it surges, the service ride control light changes intensity.
he seems to feel that the computer is bad and is affecting the timing
somehow, and said i should take it to the chevy dealer.

could this be a fuel delivery problem (fuel pump, filter, bad injectors)?

are there any other sensors that this could be, or does this sound familiar,
and if so, are there tests for them so i don't have to start throwing
expensive parts at the problem?

thanks,
charlie
cave creek, az
'Key - 01 May 2007 18:52 GMT
> hello
>
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
> charlie
> cave creek, az

you could try running some Lucus fuel injector cleaner
through a tank of gas,
then replace the gas filter.

my2¢
Signature

"Key"
=====

Ric Seyler - 01 May 2007 19:31 GMT
Key had a good point, but I am also thinking possible OptiSpark
issue. Could be either side of the equation really, fuel or spark.
Frustrating!

>hello
>
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>
>  

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Ric Seyler
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--------------------------------------
"Homer no function beer well without."
- H.J. Simpson

charlie - 01 May 2007 19:43 GMT
> Key had a good point, but I am also thinking possible OptiSpark
> issue. Could be either side of the equation really, fuel or spark.
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>>familiar, and if so, are there tests for them so i don't have to start
>>throwing expensive parts at the problem?

actually, before i replaced the water temp sensor, that plug had fallen out,
and the engine went from occasionally missing, to missing constantly and not
having any power at all, basically stranding me. when i plugged this sensor
cable back in, it went back to the odd and occasional miss. that's what led
me to think it may be some bad sensor or even a wiring harness problem.

i guess i'll try the fuel cleaner and filter first. dumb question: where is
the fuel filter? i have a shop manual for this car, but it must have been a
pre-release version, as a lot of the sections seem to be missing, stating
'see 1993 year manual for this section', and most of the engine sections are
missing. the manual came with the car, which was a very early 94 press car.

thanks,
charlie
cave creek, az
'Key - 01 May 2007 20:26 GMT
>> Key had a good point, but I am also thinking possible
>> OptiSpark
[quoted text clipped - 73 lines]
> charlie
> cave creek, az

on an 89
the fuel filter is along the inside of the frame rail just
behind the right front tire.
not real sure if its the same place on your 94.

g'luck
Signature

"Key"
=====

Charlie - 01 May 2007 21:02 GMT
On my 93 convertible, it's there under the cross brace.

>>> Key had a good point, but I am also thinking possible OptiSpark
>>> issue. Could be either side of the equation really, fuel or spark.
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
>
> g'luck
Empty3 - 01 May 2007 22:44 GMT
>>> Key had a good point, but I am also thinking possible OptiSpark
>>> issue. Could be either side of the equation really, fuel or spark.
[quoted text clipped - 70 lines]
> right front tire.
> not real sure if its the same place on your 94.

On my 1990, its the same as the 89 - strange place to have one.
You have to remove the tire to get to it (unless you can
elevate the car).

Empty3
Ric Seyler - 01 May 2007 21:02 GMT
>  
>
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
>
>  

It could be a sensor also! ARRGGHH! LOL
Maybe take it and have it scanned?

Signature

Ric Seyler
Online Racing: RicSeyler
GPL Handicap 6.35
ricseyler@SPAMgulf.net
http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler
remove -SPAM- from email address
--------------------------------------
"Homer no function beer well without."
- H.J. Simpson

Bob I - 02 May 2007 03:16 GMT
When was the last time the spark plugs were checked/changed?

> hello
>
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> charlie
> cave creek, az
charlie - 02 May 2007 17:48 GMT
> When was the last time the spark plugs were checked/changed?
>
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>> charlie
>> cave creek, az

100k miles ago, at least.
WayneC - 02 May 2007 20:10 GMT
> 100k miles ago, at least.

You ARE joking, aren't you????
charlie - 02 May 2007 23:11 GMT
>> 100k miles ago, at least.
>>
> You ARE joking, aren't you????

nope. it still gets 24mpg in town, 30mpg on long distance trips. this is my
daily driver as well as my long distance traveler. i put on 300+ miles/week
commuting, and multi-thousand mile trips. it's been rock solid for over 10
years. why fix something that hasn't been a problem?

i don't think bad plugs/wires will cause surging, uncalled for speedups,
idle seeking, and higher or lower than normal idling. it might account for
the missing, but unless 2 problems happened at the same time, there's
something else going on. i asked over at the corvette action center, and
someone suggested an egr, which also has never been replaced since i got the
car. that, i believe, can cause this problem, and seems to have the same
symptoms that others have seen elsewhere.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az
X-Eliminator - 03 May 2007 01:28 GMT
All the guys that go 50,000+ on the original spark plugs are all
losers. This is a losing thread.

=========================================

>> 100k miles ago, at least.
>>
>You ARE joking, aren't you????
JimH - 02 May 2007 22:53 GMT
>>> i have a problem with my 94 that is puzzling me.
>
> 100k miles ago, at least.

I've never replaced the plugs in my '93. I'm still running the ones from
the factory. It still runs great. I've only got 62K miles on it though.

I had a similar symptom on my '85. The pro's diagnosed bad fuel filter,
then bad fuel pump. When the after market fuel pump that they put in it
failed, I took it to the Chevy dealer. The Chevy dealer told me it was
the injectors, and charged me a fortune. It finally turned out to be the
MAF.

Hope this helps.
charlie - 02 May 2007 23:16 GMT
> >>> i have a problem with my 94 that is puzzling me.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Hope this helps.

thanks. hope not. wouldn't a maf failure throw a code?

i actually had almost exactly this same symptoms on my 89. many hundreds of
dollars later after the pros replaced the egr, injectors, maf, maf relays,
it turned out to be the iac. that's why i tried that first, and
unfortunately, it wasn't the same problem.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az
Bob I - 03 May 2007 00:30 GMT
>> When was the last time the spark plugs were checked/changed?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>
> 100k miles ago, at least.

I'd check them cause it's one of the things that won't throw a code, and
it fits both symptoms in my 95 manual.
Art - 06 May 2007 13:35 GMT
I have an '84 crossfire and have a very similair problem.. When at low spped
with no extreme power requirements the engine 'surges', I have replaced
virtually everything (including the power brake vacuum booster) thinking it
must be a vacuum issue.  I am down to the point that it is probably the
injectors but on the crossfire they are about $600.00 each.  I'm saving my
money for the two injector replacements now.

I hope this works or I think it will force me to result to carburation.

> >> When was the last time the spark plugs were checked/changed?
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
> I'd check them cause it's one of the things that won't throw a code, and
> it fits both symptoms in my 95 manual.
'Key - 07 May 2007 01:29 GMT
>I have an '84 crossfire and have a very similair problem..
>When at low spped
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> I hope this works or I think it will force me to result to
> carburation.

my 84 done the same thing.
don't be to quick to replace injectors.
Is your fuel tank clean of debris?
have you checked for proper fuel pressure?
did you check/replace fuel pump, and fuel filter?
have you run injector cleaner ? (recommend Lucus Fuel
injector cleaner)

Signature

"Key"
=====

Art - 09 May 2007 02:50 GMT
I have not replace the fuel pump but have checked it at most rpms and it is
steady, I have run several injector cleaners, replaced the fuel filter and
tps, new cam, rollers, solids, but had issue prior to new cam and solids, I
have even replaced the brake vacuum booster thinkingit may be a vacuum
issue.

I am down to the injectors or I dant know what accept maybe the ECM?

Art
> >I have an '84 crossfire and have a very similair problem..
> >When at low spped
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> "Key"
> =====
'Key - 09 May 2007 05:12 GMT
>I have not replace the fuel pump but have checked it at
>most rpms and it is
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Art

well, I am out of suggestions.
maybe someone else here will be of help?
when you find out the source of the problem.
please return and post it. I am courious to know.

g'luck
Signature

"Key"
=====

>> >I have an '84 crossfire and have a very similair
>> >problem..
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>> "Key"
>> =====
Eugene Blanchard - 10 May 2007 00:44 GMT
Often surging is caused by a vacuum leak - broken or split vacuum hose going
someplace or leaking intake manifold gasket.

> I have not replace the fuel pump but have checked it at most rpms and it
> is steady, I have run several injector cleaners, replaced the fuel filter
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>> "Key"
>> =====

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Eugene Blanchard
http://www.catsasskustoms.com
Parts, Performance, Passion
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charlie - 15 May 2007 21:40 GMT
On May 1, 9:52 am, "charlie" <charlie.spit...@nospam.stratus.com>
wrote:
> hello
>
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> charlie
> cave creek, az

short story: optispark.

long story: i took it into the dealer after my mechanic didn't find
the problem. he didn't want to start just throwing parts at it, and
didn't have any onhand to do any testing with.

the dealer at first diagnosed the missing problem as a couple of bad
spark plug wires, and possibly bad plugs. replaced all wires/plugs.

the surging problem he claimed was a MAS with baked on oil from the
k&n air filter. solvent cleaned the MAS.

turned it back to me, and within 1/2 mile was doing the same thing.
went back, took the service guy for a test drive and nearly put him
through the windscreen it was missing so bad.

they kept it for a day and said they couldn't reproduce the problem.
went back and took the manager for a test drive, and bucked him around
some.

i don't know what they did to diagnose, but called and said the
optispark was bad. took a couple of days to get one. took out the
water pump and found that it was on it's way to selfdestruction,
missing some bearings and a rusty optispark. replaced both. wonder
where the bearings will turn up in the future?

runs like a champ now, as far as i can tell with 20 or so miles on it.
lots lighter in the wallet, and i can't recommend midway chevy in
phoenix for any service at all.

thanks for the help,
charlie
Ric Seyler - 16 May 2007 19:31 GMT
>On May 1, 9:52 am, "charlie" <charlie.spit...@nospam.stratus.com>
>wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 85 lines]
>
>  

That's a few BIG chunks out of the wallet!!! Ouchie

Signature

Ric Seyler
Online Racing: RicSeyler
GPL Handicap 6.35
ricseyler@SPAMgulf.net
http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler
remove -SPAM- from email address
--------------------------------------
"Homer no function beer well without."
- H.J. Simpson

 
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