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Car Forum / Chevrolet / Chevrolet Malibu / November 2004

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theft system problems

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Scott - 29 Oct 2004 00:19 GMT
I know this has been discussed many times but I haven't found the answers to
these questions and was hoping someone could help.  My daughter has a 2000
Malibu and occasionally the theft system kicks in and prevents her from
starting it.  I've check on bypassing it but the only thing I can find are
the modules you can install if you have a remote starter.  Talking to the
dealer, they want a few hundred dollars to replace the key switch.

So, my questions are;
1)  Can I replace the ignition switch or does the dealer have to do that to
sync it's resistance with the theft system module?
2) It is possible to just bypass the darn theft system entirely?  I can live
with out the "protection" this provides.  I'd rather have the car stolen
than
my young daughter stranded someplace.  Looking at several wiring diagrams
from different remote starter kits, it looks like if I turn the switch to
run the resistance is across the black and yellow wire (of the
black/white/yellow group) but checking it with a VOM the resistance never
changes if in off or acc or run or start, it's always 2.84 meg.  I was
hoping to use a relay and apply a resistor where required when in run.

Please, somebody out there has to know how to disable this system without
spending several hundred dollars at the dealer.  Also, from what I
understand, this system works by just shutting off the fuel system.  Does
that mean it just shuts off the fuel pump or does it do it some other way?
Please help with any information you have.

Thanks a million (or at least a few hundred dollars that I don't think the
dealer deserves!)

Scott
Jay - 29 Oct 2004 02:13 GMT
I would help but I work for a dealer.......I don't deserve your money.

Signature

Jason E.
ASE Master Technician with L1 Advanced engine performance
GM Master Certified Technician

>I know this has been discussed many times but I haven't found the answers
>to
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Scott
Scott - 29 Oct 2004 02:42 GMT
OK, maybe blaming the dealer was bad on my part.  I guess I'm mad at GM for
designing the system that apparently is a common problem.  There has to be a
way to bypass the "theft" system on this car.  I'm sorry if I offended you.
Please help if you can.

Scott

>I would help but I work for a dealer.......I don't deserve your money.
>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>>
>> Scott
Jay - 30 Oct 2004 04:07 GMT
No problem. It kind of gets my goat when I read message after message about
people who goto dealers and think they are getting ripped off most the time.
I thought the same also until I went to work for one. The dealership is the
absolute best place to get your car worked on but, I agree it is pricey.
However, its not the technician that sets the price of labor. Its the
dealership itself. I only get less then 20% of each labor hour I spend
working on customer cars. Overhead for my dealership is over 300,000 a
month. This includes the expensive training program and tools to do the job
right. Parts markup is over 100% on most items {which I do not agree with}.
There are good technicians and bad ones at dealerships. Good ones might
spend the time to give free help on newgroups. Something I get paid for
everyday, I do it for free just to help people. So, yes it does bother me
when read people that think they are getting messed over everytime they set
foot in a dealership. My advice is to do your homework and find one good
particular technician at your dealership and request that he work on your
car evertime you bring it in. I have a very large customer base that asks
for me and will even wait a few days until I can get to their vehicle to
repair it because they trust me. I don't sell things to customers that they
dont need and I don't overcharge for the work that I do. I think thats fair,
don't you? I have no control over parts prices and the shop labor rate. I do
want to make a living and get a paycheck every friday just like anyone else.
Anyways, off my soapbox.

You're correct, this is a very common problem. I fix about 1 a week. Its a
very effective system and unfortunately, can't be bypassed as far as I know.
Its effective in part becasue it can't be "bypassed" by a thief to steal
your car. The problem lies in the actual key cylinder and cylinder case.
There is a sensor that tends to read the wrong input from time to time
enabling the theft mode if the key cylinder gets worn. I've emailed you at
the address you provided the description and operation of the system so that
you can understand how it works. You cannot just install a resistor like the
old days, it just does not work that way. It is not even close to the old
"chip in key system." So much is involved that I don't see a way that it can
be bypassed safely. You will have to buy the ignition lock cylinder, 10
tumblers, 10 tumbler springs, and1 tumber retainer. You then have to know
how to read your key to determine the key code so that you know what
tumblers to order. Then you arrange the tumblers, and springs into the
ignition lock cylinder in the correct order. Install the tumbler springs,
then the spring retainer. Place the cylinder into the cylinder case. Remove
your radio from your car. This gives you access to the side of the ignition
switch. Access the release button on the old cylinder with the key in the
run position. Pull and remove the case assy. Install your newly built case
into the switch. Then perform the program proceedure.

If you want to save the money and buy just the part and try to tackle this
yourself, I will help you the best I can. Just contact me through email or
here. You may save close to $80 doing it yourself. Truth be told, its worth
the money just to let the dealership do the work. I can get it done in under
30 mins including 10 mins to program the new passlock sensor. Reading the
key is the hardest part. Good luck and let me know what you decide to do.
Hope I was of some help.

Signature

Jason E.
ASE Master Technician with L1 Advanced engine performance
GM Master Certified Technician

> OK, maybe blaming the dealer was bad on my part.  I guess I'm mad at GM
> for designing the system that apparently is a common problem.  There has
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>>>
>>> Scott
Scott - 31 Oct 2004 03:01 GMT
Thank you for that information.  I will be scheduling it to be fixed at the
dealer early next week.  I appreciate you sending the information but the
email I list isn't valid because of spam.  I would be interested in reading
what you have though, so if you wouldn't mind could you please sent it to
sdelagrange at charter dot net.  Hopefully once it's fixed we won't have to
worry about it again.  It'll just take time for my daughter to get her
confidence back with it.

From what I can gather from the various passlock bypass kits for remote
starters, it looks like the resistance needs to be across the black and
yellow wire only in run which I could accomplish with a simple relay but the
problem is I couldn't get a reading.

Thank you again for your help. (and sorry for the mis-directed frustration)

Scott

> No problem. It kind of gets my goat when I read message after message
> about people who goto dealers and think they are getting ripped off most
[quoted text clipped - 97 lines]
>>>>
>>>> Scott
Jay - 31 Oct 2004 09:50 GMT
Scott I resent the info to the new email address. I trust you already have a
schematic, seems your familliar with the circuits. If you need that also let
me know. I wish I could tell you that it wouldn't happen again, but the
truth is that one day it probably will when the new cylinder wears out. I
know thats not what you wanted to hear but its the sad truth. Wish you luck.
If I can help anymore let me know. And BTW no hard feelings, I understand
the way you feel. I'm just glad I can help somewhat.

Signature

Jason E.
ASE Master Technician with L1 Advanced engine performance
GM Master Certified Technician

> Thank you for that information.  I will be scheduling it to be fixed at
> the dealer early next week.  I appreciate you sending the information but
[quoted text clipped - 117 lines]
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott
Scott - 31 Oct 2004 15:57 GMT
Jay, the only schematics I've been able to get are the ones from the
passlock bypass makers for remote starters or from the Haynes auto manual
that I bought but Haynes doesn't have anything in it regarding this system.
So if you could, I would greatly appreciate the schematics if you could send
them.
Thanks again,

Scott

> Scott I resent the info to the new email address. I trust you already have
> a schematic, seems your familliar with the circuits. If you need that also
[quoted text clipped - 125 lines]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott
Klinger - 31 Oct 2004 17:47 GMT
> Jay, the only schematics I've been able to get are the ones from the
> passlock bypass makers for remote starters or from the Haynes auto manual
[quoted text clipped - 134 lines]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Scott

I put put ia remote starter in my 99 Malibu - I did something wrong! now
the anti-theft light stays on all the time but it starts fine. I had the
similar problems to what you have  - I think that one of the wires on
the whole remote thing was not connected properly - I took the whole
thing off and re installed ensuring all connections were good. I works
like a charm -. The new anti-theft relays don't require a resistance
setting - they are automatic. I just live with anti theft light staying
on all the time!
Jay - 01 Nov 2004 05:29 GMT
Scott, check your mail, I've sent the schematic. Maybe if you could send me
a picture of the aftermarket system bypass, I could help you figure it out.

Signature

Jason E.
ASE Master Technician with L1 Advanced engine performance
GM Master Certified Technician

> Jay, the only schematics I've been able to get are the ones from the
> passlock bypass makers for remote starters or from the Haynes auto manual
[quoted text clipped - 135 lines]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Scott
Scott - 09 Nov 2004 16:19 GMT
Thanks to Jay's help I've been able to bypass the theft system on this car
and it only took about $10 in parts to do.  Keep in mind that this car no
longer is protected from thugs who steal cars by breaking the ignition
switch so if that is important to you, by all means take your car to the
dealer and have the switch replaced.  (I'd suggest the shop where Jay works
but I don't know where that is :)

Anyways, what I did was to find the three theft system wires going to the
ignition switch which are white, black and yellow.  I then cut the yellow
wire and soldered extra lengths on to each end.  On the black wire, I tapped
into it and connected a length of wire to it as well.  I did all this so I
could take resistance readings on these wire when the main connectors were
re-connected to the ignition switch and the battery reconnected too.  What I
found is between the black wire and the ignition switch side of the yellow
wire was 2447 ohms resistance when the key was in the start position and
also when back in run (but not in the run position when coming from the acc.
position).  In all other positions the circuit measured open.  After a quick
trip to Radio Shack to buy $3 worth of resistors, I soldered a few together
to get 2417 ohms resistance as measured with my VOM which I deemed close
enough.  I then wanted to test my theory so I hooked the black wire to a
push button switch and the other side I connected my resistors and then to
the non-ignition switch side of the yellow wire.  While turning the ignition
switch with the key, I pushed the button when I got to start and held it in
when back in run.  The car started and ran fine.  I tried several more times
and it worked.  On a hunch (and wanting to simplify the relay circuit I'd
have to create) I tried another test but this time I held the button in when
I got to run, held it in through start and back to run, and here too, the
car started and kept running.   After repeating this test several times I
concluded that I didn't need to simulate the switch exactly.  I then ran to
Auto Zone (or was it Advanced AutoParts?  I forget) and bought a $4 relay
and a $3 assortment of heat-shrink tubing.  I then soldered a wire onto the
pink ignition wire on the ignition switch and used this wire to fire the
relay (other side of relay to ground, of course)  On one side of the
normally open contact of the relay I connected the black wire and the other
side I connected the resistors which were then connected to the non-ignition
switch side of the yellow.  The switch side of the yellow wire isn't
connected to anything but was just used to get the resistance reading.  I
used the heat shrink to cover all my soldering and the resistors.

I don't know if the resistance is the same for all cars or if this will work
in yours as it appears that there are different types of passlock systems.
All I'm saying is that this worked for me and hopefully someone else can use
the information as well.

Again, Thank you Jay for your assistance, you have been a great help!

Scott

PS, if my rambling description of the wiring I did doesn't make sense, send
me an email at fixed-malibu {at} charter {dot} net and I'll send a crude
wiring diagram.

> Scott, check your mail, I've sent the schematic. Maybe if you could send
> me a picture of the aftermarket system bypass, I could help you figure it
[quoted text clipped - 142 lines]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Scott
 
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