I wonder if most of the newly built pick-up trucks (domestic or
imported) are made in four wheel drive?
I recall in the old days that during the winter, pick-up trucks usually
have problem with tractions, and they have to buy bags of sand to make
sure that the rear wheels are not spinning. What about the new trucks
and pick-ups? Are they now front wheel drive, all wheel drive, or 4
wheel drive? I hardly hear someone complaining that they have to load
their pick up truck with bags of sand any longer. Is this still the
practice during winter months?
Mellowed - 22 Dec 2005 02:25 GMT
A 4x4 is an option. Since you pay in fuel mileage, If you don't need
it, don't get it.
: I wonder if most of the newly built pick-up trucks (domestic or
: imported) are made in four wheel drive?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
: their pick up truck with bags of sand any longer. Is this still the
: practice during winter months?
mudmonkey - 22 Dec 2005 02:49 GMT
Depending on where you live, and the general common hobbies of your
area you will see more 4x4's. In snow country, wherer i live 4x4 is so
common its hard to find a 2x4 on ther road at the moment. Many have a
newer 2x4 that they use in the summer and an old beater 4x4 that they
use in the winter. In california you may see many more 2x4's then 4
by's. Its all personal choice and preferance.
Shoe Salesman - 23 Dec 2005 08:08 GMT
> Depending on where you live, and the general common hobbies of your
> area you will see more 4x4's. In snow country, wherer i live 4x4 is so
> common its hard to find a 2x4 on ther road at the moment. Many have a
> newer 2x4 that they use in the summer and an old beater 4x4 that they
> use in the winter. In california you may see many more 2x4's then 4
> by's. Its all personal choice and preferance.
You would be suprized how may 4X4s there are here in CA that will never be
used....
Lorne - 23 Dec 2005 18:19 GMT
You would be surprised at how many 4 X 4 are used here in Canada :-)
>> Depending on where you live, and the general common hobbies of your
>> area you will see more 4x4's. In snow country, wherer i live 4x4 is so
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> You would be suprized how may 4X4s there are here in CA that will never be
> used....
Eugene Nine - 22 Dec 2005 15:35 GMT
> A 4x4 is an option. Since you pay in fuel mileage, If you don't need
> it, don't get it.
A true 4x4 system (not AWD) doesn't make any significant difference in
milage anymore. For example my 2004 4x4 silverado gets better city milage
than a friends 2005 2wd F150.
Mike Copeland - 22 Dec 2005 15:55 GMT
>>A 4x4 is an option. Since you pay in fuel mileage, If you don't need
>>it, don't get it.
>
> A true 4x4 system (not AWD) doesn't make any significant difference in
> milage anymore. For example my 2004 4x4 silverado gets better city milage
> than a friends 2005 2wd F150.
Nobody makes a "true" 4x4 anyhow. The original 4x4 meant 4 wheels driven
by 4 gears.
That was either a Detroit locker or "real" posi-traction diffs at both
ends and a serious 4 spd standard transmission.
You might get 10 mpg going downhill on the hwy on a good day.
Gone are the days....
Eugene Nine - 22 Dec 2005 22:54 GMT
>>>A 4x4 is an option. Since you pay in fuel mileage, If you don't need
>>>it, don't get it.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> You might get 10 mpg going downhill on the hwy on a good day.
> Gone are the days....
The original Willies 4x4 was just a powered front axle no lockers or
anything like that so the modern 4x4's are the same. The 4 wheels are
driven by gears in the differentials.
Besides I'm meaning as opposed to AWD and crap like that.
Mellowed - 23 Dec 2005 00:46 GMT
You lose fuel mileage due friction loses in the transfer case. Adding
more gears, plus weight of the transfer case and front differential also
contribute to less fuel mileage.
To see any 4WD difference between vehicles you need to compare identical
vehicles. You are comparing Apples and Oranges.
: > A 4x4 is an option. Since you pay in fuel mileage, If you don't need
: > it, don't get it.
: >
: A true 4x4 system (not AWD) doesn't make any significant difference in
: milage anymore. For example my 2004 4x4 silverado gets better city milage
: than a friends 2005 2wd F150.
Eugene Nine - 23 Dec 2005 02:48 GMT
> You lose fuel mileage due friction loses in the transfer case. Adding
> more gears, plus weight of the transfer case and front differential also
> contribute to less fuel mileage.
>
> To see any 4WD difference between vehicles you need to compare identical
> vehicles. You are comparing Apples and Oranges.
Even the factory rating is only 1 mpg difference and I average .5 mpg higher
then what they say my truck is supposed to be so I'm only .5mpg different
from the 2wd version of my truck.
There is very little friction in a modern transfer case, they have come a
long way since the 70's
T.Diesel - 23 Dec 2005 04:53 GMT
Eugene you can really only compare your 2004 4x4 Silverado to another
silverado with the same power plant and 2wd. For instance;
2004 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 2WD Automatic (4 speed), 8 cyl, 5.3 L,
Regular Gasoline = MPG (city) 16 - MPG (hwy) 19
2004 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 4WD Automatic (4 speed), 8 cyl, 5.3 L,
Regular Gasoline = MPG (city) 15 - MPG (hwy) 18
So yes 4WD still makes a difference in mpg. Weather 1mpg is
significant depends more on how you plane to use the vehicle and how
many miles you put on it.
Eugene Nine - 24 Dec 2005 00:15 GMT
> Eugene you can really only compare your 2004 4x4 Silverado to another
> silverado with the same power plant and 2wd. For instance;
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> significant depends more on how you plane to use the vehicle and how
> many miles you put on it.
Yes, if you look at my last post you will see that I said there is only one
mpg difference between the factory rating and I'm getting average .5mpg
higher then what they say so its possible they measured the 4x4 at 19.4mpg
an 2wd at 19.6 mpg and rounded down and up.
My friends f150 is as close to my solverado as you can get, mid level trim
package, 5.3 and 5.4l v8's auto extended cab, etc. He does beat me in long
trip highway milage, but it just wasn't worth it to gain .5 mpg to give up
low range for when I'm on my parents farm. Its like making 100k per year
and being too cheap to buy a $5 fire smoke detector for your house, there
when if you needed but hopefully you never will.
miles - 24 Dec 2005 19:25 GMT
> A true 4x4 system (not AWD) doesn't make any significant difference in
> milage anymore. For example my 2004 4x4 silverado gets better city milage
> than a friends 2005 2wd F150.
A part time 4x4 still has a transfer case. Todays 4x4's lack unlocking
hubs either manual or automatic. EPA almost always shows 4x4 (not awd)
models with lower mpg figures.
Eugene Nine - 25 Dec 2005 03:06 GMT
>> A true 4x4 system (not AWD) doesn't make any significant difference in
>> milage anymore. For example my 2004 4x4 silverado gets better city
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> hubs either manual or automatic. EPA almost always shows 4x4 (not awd)
> models with lower mpg figures.
The EPA difference for my truck 2wd to 4x4 is listed at 1mpg. Real world I
find it to be about .5 which I don't consider to be any significant
difference.
AWD and other forms of non part time 4x4 really kill the mpg. My full size
v8 truck gets better milage than the AWD V6 minivan we made the mistake of
buying.
FMB - 22 Dec 2005 02:52 GMT
>I wonder if most of the newly built pick-up trucks (domestic or
> imported) are made in four wheel drive?
Yes, and they all have CTD HOs with heated seats.
FMB
Mike Levy - 22 Dec 2005 03:58 GMT
The use of sand in the bed isn't relegated to 4x2's. My dad and
brother both have put sand tubes in the bed of their 4x4s. It helps
keep the rear wheels planted, helps to get the tires down through the
snow to pavement where they can get traction and keep from sliding
out.
>I wonder if most of the newly built pick-up trucks (domestic or
>imported) are made in four wheel drive?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>their pick up truck with bags of sand any longer. Is this still the
>practice during winter months?
Tom Levigne - 27 Dec 2005 00:06 GMT
I load concrete blocks in the back of my S-10 pickup truck and it goes
through snow better than a 4 wheel drive truck.
> The use of sand in the bed isn't relegated to 4x2's. My dad and
> brother both have put sand tubes in the bed of their 4x4s. It helps
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>>their pick up truck with bags of sand any longer. Is this still the
>>practice during winter months?
351CJ - 27 Dec 2005 07:44 GMT
Obviously Tom has never driven a 4 wheel drive truck!
>I load concrete blocks in the back of my S-10 pickup truck and it goes
>through snow better than a 4 wheel drive truck.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>>>their pick up truck with bags of sand any longer. Is this still the
>>>practice during winter months?
Eugene Nine - 27 Dec 2005 21:14 GMT
> Obviously Tom has never driven a 4 wheel drive truck!
I've seen some people with a 4x4 and cheap tires get stuck where my little
2wd s10 would drive right through. A skilled driver in a 2wd can easily
match an unskilled driver in a 4x4.
SBlackfoot - 27 Dec 2005 21:54 GMT
> > Obviously Tom has never driven a 4 wheel drive truck!
> >
> I've seen some people with a 4x4 and cheap tires get stuck where my little
> 2wd s10 would drive right through. A skilled driver in a 2wd can easily
> match an unskilled driver in a 4x4.
True, but pull the driver out of the 2wd and stick him in a 4wd with the
same tires and see where he can go.
Eugene Nine - 28 Dec 2005 02:05 GMT
>> > Obviously Tom has never driven a 4 wheel drive truck!
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> True, but pull the driver out of the 2wd and stick him in a 4wd with the
> same tires and see where he can go.
Probably far enough to need winched out :)
351CJ - 28 Dec 2005 03:20 GMT
>> Obviously Tom has never driven a 4 wheel drive truck!
>>
> I've seen some people with a 4x4 and cheap tires get stuck where my little
> 2wd s10 would drive right through. A skilled driver in a 2wd can easily
> match an unskilled driver in a 4x4.
But that has nothing to do with a the absolute advantages of a 4x4 over a
2x4 that are dictated by the laws of physics...
351CJ - 28 Dec 2005 06:02 GMT
>> Obviously Tom has never driven a 4 wheel drive truck!
>>
> I've seen some people with a 4x4 and cheap tires get stuck where my little
> 2wd s10 would drive right through. A skilled driver in a 2wd can easily
> match an unskilled driver in a 4x4.
And that still has nothing what-so-ever to do with a the absolute advantages
of a 4x4 over a 2x4 these advantages are governed by the laws of physics...
just another - 31 Dec 2005 04:51 GMT
> > Obviously Tom has never driven a 4 wheel drive truck!
> >
> I've seen some people with a 4x4 and cheap tires get stuck where my little
> 2wd s10 would drive right through. A skilled driver in a 2wd can easily
> match an unskilled driver in a 4x4.
Folks with 4x4 pickups have serious problems on my very-steep gravel 'n dirt hill; if the pickup
is too light in the rear, they get stuck. Adding a couple hundred pounds to a pickup usually
helps. Few 2WD cars or minivans, front- or rear-wheel drive, can make it up to my place.
I have a 2500 Ram Van, 2WD, that has no problems, because I had a limited-slip differential
installed, and I run the rear tire pressure well on the low side.
William R. Walsh - 22 Dec 2005 04:36 GMT
Hi!
> I wonder if most of the newly built pick-up trucks (domestic or
> imported) are made in four wheel drive?
I don't know the answer to that...and I'm not sure the individual companies
release numbers like that. (Maybe the industry as a whole has an average?)
> I recall in the old days that during the winter, pick-up trucks usually
> have problem with tractions, and they have to buy bags of sand to make
> sure that the rear wheels are not spinning. What about the new trucks
> and pick-ups?
You will see both two and four wheel drive trucks being sold today, as
always.
Traction in a 2WD truck can still be a problem...just the other day I got my
2003 S-10 (extended cab, LS, V6) really stuck in some snow that didn't look
all that bad. After trying every other trick I could think of (short of
collecting a tractor and risking damage to the truck by pulling it out) I
used some old calf feed under the rear wheels. It held long enough to get me
out of trouble and the snow. A strange thing to do, but it worked and that
is what matters.
Putting sand in the back helps, but there is always the question of what to
do with the sand bags in the summer time. I don't have the space to store
them in the off season.
And truthfully put--traction in any truck or other vehicle can be a problem.
No matter what it is, you can get it stuck under the right conditions...four
wheel drive or not.
> Are they now front wheel drive, all wheel drive, or 4
> wheel drive? I hardly hear someone complaining that they have to load
> their pick up truck with bags of sand any longer. Is this still the
> practice during winter months?
So far as I know some people do still load their vehicles down in the back
end. People with cars might not have as much of a reason to do this as many
cars today are front wheel drive, which does help in the winter time.
I think there have been some front wheel drive trucks marketed over time
(not sure). I am not aware of anything making such a thing today.
William
TPBeach - 23 Dec 2005 13:55 GMT
There is a new invention to weight the bed of your truck. It is a
plastic bag that you fill with water after placing it in the bed of the
truck, strap it down and there you go. Sure it may turn to a block of
ice in some places but it provides you with the added weight over the
rear wheels that you are looking for. I have seen it in one of the
catalogs that blitz my home this time of year. All that would do around
here is bog you down even further in the mud (when it rains) in Arizona.
Eugene Nine - 22 Dec 2005 15:33 GMT
> I wonder if most of the newly built pick-up trucks (domestic or
> imported) are made in four wheel drive?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> their pick up truck with bags of sand any longer. Is this still the
> practice during winter months?
I've driven trucks for years 4x4 and 2wd, if you actually spend a little bit
of time learning how to drive then you don't need any weight in the rear.
But to answer your question, they can be bought with just 2wd, 4x4, or even
some kind of AWD. Honda even makes a front wheel drive minivan they call a
truck so you could get one of them and pretend its a truck too if you
beleive that front wheel drive is somhowe good.
Marc Tremblay - 23 Dec 2005 01:55 GMT
Sand bags or whatever in the box is a bad idea, what happens to the frozen
sand bags in case of a collision?? Yeah, that's right, you get the air bag
in the face but hit with the frozen sand bag behind the head. In snow
country, got winter tires are usually the best you can do. Not much sense
in getting great traction to gather speed if you can stop......
>> I wonder if most of the newly built pick-up trucks (domestic or
>> imported) are made in four wheel drive?
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> truck so you could get one of them and pretend its a truck too if you
> beleive that front wheel drive is somhowe good.
The Nolalu Barn Owl - 23 Dec 2005 03:09 GMT
>I wonder if most of the newly built pick-up trucks (domestic or
>imported) are made in four wheel drive?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>their pick up truck with bags of sand any longer. Is this still the
>practice during winter months?
Just got a 2006 Silverado 2WD. Put 240 lb of sand bags in the bed but
was driving it without on snow covered roads. Has a V6 so was not so
powerful as to break traction without conscious effort on the gas
pedal.
I reasoned that the 4x4 with 3.73 diffs, larger tires and the extra
weight couldn't get the same bang for the buck as the 2WD with 3.23
diffs. The insurance company wants more for the 4WD too and it was 3
grand more just to buy it. Maintenance costs more over the long run
too.

Signature
Regards
Gordie
Eugene Nine - 24 Dec 2005 00:16 GMT
The Nolalu Barn Owl
<gordie@nolalu.on.ca>
wrote:
>>I wonder if most of the newly built pick-up trucks (domestic or
>>imported) are made in four wheel drive?
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> grand more just to buy it. Maintenance costs more over the long run
> too.
Thats another myth too, there isn't really any more maintenance on a 4x4
unless you really like changing fluids.
Whitelightning - 24 Dec 2005 01:50 GMT
> Thats another myth too, there isn't really any more maintenance on a 4x4
> unless you really like changing fluids.
Since going to sealed hub bearings as used on front wheel drive cars I
have to agree there, unless the drive train gets dunked fording.
Before that, the work involved in tearing down the front end to repack
wheel bearings, inspect and lube or replace the spindle bearings made
for a real chore.
Whitelightning
Eugene Nine - 24 Dec 2005 02:39 GMT
>> Thats another myth too, there isn't really any more maintenance on a 4x4
>> unless you really like changing fluids.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Whitelightning
My 2000 2wd s10 required the wheel bearings to be repacked ever 15k IIRC so
it actually took more maintenance than my 88 4x4.
IYM - 23 Dec 2005 13:56 GMT
As all else have mentioned, 4X2's are still made and are easy to get, and
yes, it depends on where you live as to what you need, but more often what
you are going to be doing with it. I made the decision to get my '99 F150
Lariat fully loaded with all options, but as a 4x2, simply because although
I live on Long Island and although you can drive on the ocean beach, I was
not going to take a brand new 30K truck out by the salt water. We get snow
here, but not enough to warrant 4WD and it's as flat as a pancake.
> I wonder if most of the newly built pick-up trucks (domestic or
> imported) are made in four wheel drive?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> their pick up truck with bags of sand any longer. Is this still the
> practice during winter months?
badaztek - 25 Dec 2005 08:04 GMT
the companies make just as many 4X4 as they do 2 WD and they are both
just as popular ,I myself have a 2001 S-10 and i really dont have that
much problem in the snow but if it starts to really come down here in PA
I do have sand in my bed ,A neat trick here to do is go buy a couple of
those 5 gallon buckets with lids and fill them with sand when winter is
over you can easily out them almost anywhere either stack them or put a
couple planks across the top and you just got some more storage space or
a neat bench to sit on in the garage or basement ,I have 2 in my bed and
thats enough along with my cable chains and 3.70 gears in the rear to
get thru the snow .
Now to reply to the gentlemen who said you shouldn't put anything in the
bed cause it'is too dangerous really doesn't know what he is talking
about, I have seen numerous trucks in accidents and I have never seen a
bed carrying a normal load ever go thru the back of the cab have seen
some stupid people put stuff higher than the bed rails in fact back in
the seventies one gentlemen had his head taken off because he didnt want
to make 2 trips to the lumber yard and had put several sheets of plywood
over the rails of his bed ,long story short he was going along someone
pulled in front of him he hit and the plywood came thru the rear window
and out the front that was that, the only real damage to the vehicle was
the the front and the glass the bed was just fine if he had the plywood
lower or had a headache rack on he would've most likely lived ,but
having sand in the back all it would really do is slide directly forward
from where it is at unless you have a jump ramp installed in the bed
,the only problem I really have in driving in the snow is the stupid ABS
kicking on I have had a couple vehicles with out ABS and I stopped
quicker in snow and other times without ABS then I ever have with ABS
,and I have been in close calls because of them and have been hearing
other people at different times with the same complaint they dont let
you stop as quick as you should in the snow especially going down a hill
or slight slant
badaztek - 25 Dec 2005 08:30 GMT
also wanted to add to always carry a shovel with you in case you get
stuck and another thing about carrying sand is if get stuck on an icy
patch you can pop open the 5 gallon bucket put some sand down and close
it back up with no worry about getting sand all over your bed and the
shovel is to help remove any snow and ice in front or back of the tire
depending which direction your going and the best shovel I have seen to
carry with you is one of those folding camp shovels they do a nice job
and take up very little space and my one friend has in his truck a
2"X6"X4 foot long board with that anti slip material on it the whole
length and a piece of angle iron bolted in the middle of it sideways to
keep it from slipping on the ground so the truck can get on it easier
its also good for in the mud or soft dirt
later
Stephen Harding - 25 Dec 2005 12:01 GMT
> I wonder if most of the newly built pick-up trucks (domestic or
> imported) are made in four wheel drive?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> their pick up truck with bags of sand any longer. Is this still the
> practice during winter months?
I still put a few bags of "tube sand" in the back of my 4WD
and I really never get stuck, even when "out in the Meadows"
with quite a bit of snowfall on the ground.
But I think the real winter traction power are the snow tires.
I put Cooper Discoverers on a couple years ago and they've
been great!
Not certain what proportion of trucks sold in the US are 4WD
versus 2WD. I wouldn't be surprised if it is close to 50%.
Around here (western MA), seems almost all of the newer ones
are 4WD.
No front wheel drive pickups AFAIK (???).
SMH
thehick@canada.com - 25 Dec 2005 12:43 GMT
I have a RWD old chevy (car tho) and I put bags in the truck to
control weight distribution. Even in the summer if you hammer it
on a loose surface, you could break traction. Nothing wrong with
fixing what the manufacturer got wrong.
...thehick
Spud Demon - 27 Dec 2005 00:03 GMT
thehick@canada.com writes in article <1135514620.508655.327250@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> dated 25 Dec 2005 04:43:40 -0800:
>I have a RWD old chevy (car tho) and I put bags in the truck to
>control weight distribution. Even in the summer if you hammer it
>on a loose surface, you could break traction. Nothing wrong with
>fixing what the manufacturer got wrong.
Except that you're increasing the total weight of the vehicle and therefore
reducing your city mileage.
Another "fix" I've heard of is to install the battery in the very back of
the vehicle. Other than the long cables, it's weight-neutral and really
helps shift the center of gravity to the back.
-- spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.
badaztek - 28 Dec 2005 06:38 GMT
I've been seeing alot of responses on this subject and I'm proud to say
everyone is giving some respectable answers ,now I have this to say when
you do drive a 4 wheel drive drive it like it is a 2WD for all the 4WD
do is give you extra traction on extra 2 wheels ,if you take it easy you
will get going to where you need to be and I hope that is safe at home
if you get caught in a bad snow ,For so many times I have seen people
drive a 4WD vehicle and they drive the speed limit not understanding
that their traction has been reduced by at least 50%
because you have no real friction against the tires for snow is either
slushy or it packs tight into a smooth surface still not good and the
faster you go the less help that 4WD is going to be I've seen to many
people wreck 4WD when the 2WD vehicles keep moving ,always remember too
that there are probably other people out there and you need to help them
by keeping a safe distance in case they get in trouble and that you can
stop easily and keep in mind that ABS sometimes will kick in on snowy
roads and can keep you from stopping too ,and another thing to do is
either get some cable chains for your tires and know how to put them on
or just save the hassle of putting them on by buying snow tires it is
recommended to buy 4 tire for a 2WD but I have had good luck with just 2
tires and 4WD definitely buy 4 tires and if you can try to get a
narrower tire than what you run in warm weather it is funny but snow
tires seem to go thru better on narrower tires and if you want to save
the cost and chance of pulling the tires 2 times a year buy a set of
extra rims my suggestion would be to get a set of the old style wagon
wheels for your truck or suv they are cheap they are avaible from
several different manufacturers (including American Racing and
keystone)and you can get them in chrome ,powdercoat or paint and they
are steel
and it is alot more affordable to replace than your factory aluminum
rims since the factory can run at 200+ to replace one new or trying to
find a replacement in a junkyard if your lucky
compared to 50-70 bucks for the steelies and once you get the tires on
all you have to pay for or do it yourself is just flip the rims around
without having to replace or pay for remounting the tires and when you
are done with the snow tires always wash them real good on both sides
and put a good quality conditioner on the sidewalls or else they will
dry out and you will only get 2 years out of them instead of the normal
4-5 years depending on how traveling you do .
well anything else that may be of help I suggest post it I just want to
make sure when you are on the road I can feel safe when I am on the road
,
If your planning to keep your vehicle for awhile and your getting some
brake work done check to see how your brakelines are if they are kind of
rough spend the money and get stainless lines ,that is money well spent
in the long run and adds to the trade in value a lil bit too
good luck and drive safe
carl mciver - 31 Dec 2005 17:56 GMT
| I wonder if most of the newly built pick-up trucks (domestic or
| imported) are made in four wheel drive?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
| their pick up truck with bags of sand any longer. Is this still the
| practice during winter months?
I don't bother with sand anymore. I carry a shovel and fill the bed of
the truck up with snow. When I don't need it anymore, hey, it goes away on
its own!