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Car Forum / Chevrolet / Chevrolet Trucks / December 2007My th400 pan gasket leaks, how do I stop it?
I have tried to replace this gasket 4 times now. I have a brand new pan, and I always torque to 8-10 foot pounds. From the looks of it, it leaks down the bolts somehow. I always see the oil welling up on a couple of bolts. I have tried rubber, cork, and fiber composite gaskets. I never use rtv or any sealant as it is not recommended, but I am about ready to put some on out of desperation, just have to be careful not to let it squeeze out to the inside of the pan. It is not a huge leak, but it frustrates the hell out of me that I cannot seem to stop a simple leak, and I am tired of seeing that oil on my garage floor. And it is only ten bucks for a new gasket so every couple of weeks I'll try again, and I'll probably be trying again this weekend too. If anyone has experience with this give me a clue. H. > I have tried to replace this gasket 4 times now. I have a brand new pan, and > I always torque to 8-10 foot pounds. Too much torque. You're smashing the gasket. 60-65 inch pounds is more like it. If you're using a 3/8 drive torque wrench, you don't have the accuracy needed at the lower range of the scale, get an inch pound torque wrench. > > I have tried to replace this gasket 4 times now. I have a brand new pan, and > > I always torque to 8-10 foot pounds. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > accuracy needed at the lower range of the scale, get an inch > pound torque wrench.\ I'll try that next time. thanks. > > I have tried to replace this gasket 4 times now. I have a brand new pan, and > > I always torque to 8-10 foot pounds. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > accuracy needed at the lower range of the scale, get an inch > pound torque wrench. > In article <cf9f6$4752f4b3$40970a51$20...@EVERESTKC.NET>, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > accuracy needed at the lower range of the scale, get an inch > pound torque wrench. ====== ====== I disagree........... He's either got a Chrome pan......... or the bolt holes are PUCKERED...(i doubt that one)...... or the leak IS NOT a pan gasket leak. there ......i said it.......now i feel better. :) ~:~ MarshMonster ~takes a sip of his crownroyal..........mmmmmm...good stuff~ ~:~ In article <37176e0c-09ca-4527-b865-d5f4927a8a24@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com >, > > In article <cf9f6$4752f4b3$40970a51$20...@EVERESTKC.NET>, > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > or the bolt holes are PUCKERED...(i doubt that one)...... > or the leak IS NOT a pan gasket leak. That's not disagreeing, that's other possibilities. 10 ft.lbs. -is- too much The bottom range (20%) of a 3/8" torque wrench, any torque wrench is not very accurate > In article > <37176e0c-09ca-4527-b865-d5f4927a8...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > - Show quoted text - =========== ========== He said it was likely pan bolt torque............ I said it wasn't. ~:~ MarshMonster ~takes a toke......disagrees that it's not disagreeing~ ~:~ In article <0faa3f34-3245-4893-932c-cd53a4344504@o42g2000hsc.googlegroups.co m>, > He said it was likely pan bolt torque............ Who he? Certainly wasn't the original poster. > I said it wasn't. I said it was. Got it now? It is entirely possible that when the Chinaman punched this pan he was worrying about his tea ration being cut back if he didn't punch out 5000 that day.It wasn't done right and there is a flaw. I would check it carefully with a straight-edge over each hole and look for any splits. Look above the leak area for a higher leak (already mentioned in thread),and if it still leaks with the correct torque which BTW is 12 (TWELVE) Ft. Lbs.according to the GMC shop manual in front of me,then please re-post. > It is entirely possible that when the Chinaman punched this pan he was > worrying about his tea ration being cut back if he didn't punch out [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > (TWELVE) Ft. Lbs.according to the GMC shop manual in front of me,then > please re-post. Wow, nice to see the passion guys LOL!!! Well it IS a chrome pan, Marsh Monster mentioned that. And the holes aint puckered. I have a Haynes manual and it says 10, I do have a inch pound wrench and I get it to 120 inch pounds actually. I have never gone crazy on it and tried to torque it down to 30 foot pounds. If I seal it up and fill it up, it does not leak. If I go for a drive, get the fluid hot, check the fluid level to make sure it is just right then park it, it still does not appear to leak for quite some time. But the next morning... %&$*ing leaks. I figure if it were a leak somewhere else it would be evident soon after driving and bringing it up to temp then parking it, but it waits about 6 to 8 hours. Thanks for the info. H > Wow, nice to see the passion guys LOL!!! > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Thanks for the info. > H Clean the pan and all around the transmission real well. Then clean the pan and gasket surface real well and install a new gasket with a bit of high tac on it. Torque it down and then fill it up with fluid. Now take some baby powder and dust around the gasket and around any seal point (TV cable, shift shaft, dip stick tube and such). Then take it for a drive and see where the powder gets damp. That will tell you where the leak is. Once your done just take it through a car wash and clean it up.  SignatureSteve W. Near Cooperstown, New York Life is not like a box of chocolates it's more like a jar of jalapenos- what you do today could burn your a.s tomorrow! >Well it IS a chrome pan, Marsh Monster mentioned that. And the holes aint >puckered. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >driving and bringing it up to temp then parking it, but it waits about 6 to >8 hours. Q: to the bolts that show leakage go through the casting? (Are the holes openended?) >> It is entirely possible that when the Chinaman punched this pan he was >> worrying about his tea ration being cut back if he didn't punch out [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >Thanks for the info. >H T'was me, I'd take a grinding disc and remove that fancy chrome stuff from the sealing surface of the pan. No amount of sealer will seal a chrome tranny pan. Yo! Marshie...pass the shroom juice. :-) -- Old Crow "Yol Bolson!" '82 FLTC-P "Miss Pearl" '95 YJ Rio Grande BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, MAMBM SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > >> It is entirely possible that when the Chinaman punched this pan he was > >> worrying about his tea ration being cut back if he didn't punch out [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > - Show quoted text - ========== ========== Indian Head Gasket Shellac and that's all i gotta say bout that :) ~:~ marsh ~pours one fer duh Crowman........good to see ole friends~ ~:~ >> >> It is entirely possible that when the Chinaman punched this pan he was >> >> worrying about his tea ration being cut back if he didn't punch out [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > >and that's all i gotta say bout that Nah, I'm a Permatex aviation adhesive kinda guy. Either way, sounds like we're both old school. >:) > >~:~ >marsh >~pours one fer duh Crowman........good to see ole friends~ >~:~ Check out my new gig: http://www.vincesvintage.net/ (I"m the big guy in the middle) -- Old Crow "Yol Bolson!" '82 FLTC-P "Miss Pearl" '95 YJ Rio Grande BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, MAMBM SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > > It is entirely possible that when the Chinaman punched this pan he was > > worrying about his tea ration being cut back if he didn't punch out [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Thanks for the info. > H ========= ========= I'll tell YOU how to permanantly......(did i spell that rite cuda?).. stop that leak........ if you'll post for all to see......... that I...me alone...all by meself.......ama freek'n REPAIR GAWD. yep..i will......promise. anywhoooooooo......... did i mention......i jest recently....... left......... the tranny biz after 18 years in it..?? no...? oh...ok. :) ~:~ marsh ~takes a sip of his crownroyal..packs his pipe....~ ~:~ What are you doing now Marsh Dog? Bending frames with your Kansas Jack? LOL RK >> > It is entirely possible that when the Chinaman punched this pan he was >> > worrying about his tea ration being cut back if he didn't punch out [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > ~takes a sip of his crownroyal..packs his pipe....~ > ~:~ In article <fd652f10-da7d-4efe-b42f-ca38e275b1fc@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >, > anywhoooooooo......... > did i mention......i jest recently....... > left......... > the tranny biz after 18 years in it..?? "Recently left" can mean a lot of things. > It is entirely possible that when the Chinaman punched this pan he was > worrying about his tea ration being cut back if he didn't punch out [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > (TWELVE) Ft. Lbs.according to the GMC shop manual in front of me,then > please re-post. ========= ========= BEST ADVICE AWARD!! but then.......i reeely wasn't after it.......i've got plenty. :) ~:~ marsh ~takes a toke......goooooooood stuff~ ~:~ In article <a042a555-1098-4e3a-a345-d628064ac4aa@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.co m>, > > It is entirely possible that when the Chinaman punched this pan he was > > worrying about his tea ration being cut back if he didn't punch out [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > but then.......i reeely wasn't after it.......i've got plenty. You claimed it's because the pan is chrome. No mention of chrome in that post. So, is it chrome or is it a flaw in the pan? >In article ><a042a555-1098-4e3a-a345-d628064ac4aa@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.co [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >So, is it chrome or is it a flaw in the pan? Read the rest of the thread. The OP said this later on. > Well it IS a chrome pan, Marsh Monster mentioned that. And the holes aint >puckered. I agree wiith MM. Since I now do custom and hot rod work instead of woriking in a dealer, those cheap assed chrome pans, timing covers and valve covers have become the bane of my existance. They look pretty, but they'll all leak sooner or later. Usually much sooner than a plain steel or aluminum piece. I grind the chrome on the sealing surfaces, use a little Aviation Permatex, and it's good to go. -- Old Crow "Yol Bolson!" '82 FLTC-P "Miss Pearl" '95 YJ Rio Grande BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, MAMBM SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > >No mention of chrome in that post. > > > >So, is it chrome or is it a flaw in the pan? > > Read the rest of the thread. The OP said this later on. Yes, the OP revealed later on that the pan is chrome plated. That makes MM's reply a good guess and nothing more. Marsh also indicates that the cause could be a flawed pan (excluding that -chromed- is a flaw) which is it then? > > Well it IS a chrome pan, Marsh Monster mentioned that. And the holes aint > >puckered. > > I agree wiith MM. That lucky guesses are good? > Since I now do custom and hot rod work instead of > woriking in a dealer, those cheap assed chrome pans, timing covers and > valve covers have become the bane of my existance. They look pretty, > but they'll all leak sooner or later. Usually much sooner than a > plain steel or aluminum piece. None of which makes Marsh the 'gawd" he thinks he is. > I grind the chrome on the sealing surfaces, use a little Aviation > Permatex, and it's good to go. And torque the bolts to 15 ft.lb.? >> >No mention of chrome in that post. >> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Yes, the OP revealed later on that the pan is chrome plated. That >makes MM's reply a good guess and nothing more. >Marsh also indicates that the cause could be a flawed pan >(excluding that -chromed- is a flaw) which is it then? Guess? Possibly, but surely an educated one. I don't see you arguing with the fact that chrome pans are more likely to leak(as indicated above. Seeing that none of us but the OP can actually see and put our hands on the vehicle, we're *all* guessing, really. >> > Well it IS a chrome pan, Marsh Monster mentioned that. And the holes aint >> >puckered. >> >> I agree wiith MM. > >That lucky guesses are good? Hey, it *never* hurts ot guess right. >> Since I now do custom and hot rod work instead of >> woriking in a dealer, those cheap assed chrome pans, timing covers and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >None of which makes Marsh the 'gawd" he thinks he is. Hmm, sounds like you've got issues. Won't get into it, nope, not at all. >> I grind the chrome on the sealing surfaces, use a little Aviation >> Permatex, and it's good to go. > >And torque the bolts to 15 ft.lb.? Don't have the service manual to answer that one. Whatever it calls for, of course. 15ft lbs does sound like a bit much though. I'd probably stay in the 10-12 ft lb range. That's about the torque my Snap-On 1/4' drive air ratchet puts out at 90psi of shop air. -- Old Crow "Yol Bolson!" '82 FLTC-P "Miss Pearl" '95 YJ Rio Grande BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, MAMBM SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > >> >No mention of chrome in that post. > >> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Guess? Or a sock puppet. > Possibly, but surely an educated one. whoopie! > I don't see you arguing > with the fact that chrome pans are more likely to leak(as indicated > above. No sh.t. And I didn't after that fact was revealed by the OP. > Seeing that none of us but the OP can actually see and put our hands > on the vehicle, we're *all* guessing, really. Not really. He stated what he was torquing the bolts to, I know from 39 years of experience in spite of what's listed in the FSM that -that- is too much torque, here is where you enter and disagree and list your three possibilities which in fact were NOT and still aren't in disagreement with what I said. > >> > Well it IS a chrome pan, Marsh Monster mentioned that. And the holes aint > >> >puckered. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Hey, it *never* hurts ot guess right. It was still a guess. > >> Since I now do custom and hot rod work instead of > >> woriking in a dealer, those cheap assed chrome pans, timing covers and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Hmm, sounds like you've got issues. Won't get into it, nope, not at > all. Again, you look desperate. In article <nonelson-6AF225.16540109122007@news.chi.sbcglobal.net>, > Not really. He stated what he was torquing the bolts to, I know > from 39 years of experience in spite of what's listed in the FSM > that -that- is too much torque, here is where you enter and > disagree and list your three possibilities which in fact were NOT > and still aren't in disagreement with what I said. Should read; here is where MM enters and disagreed and listed his three possibilities. Didn't mean to attribute that exchange to you OC. ========== ========== You claimed it's because the pan is chrome. No mention of chrome in that post. So, is it chrome or is it a flaw in the pan?- Hide quoted text - ========== ========== My FIRST reply to the OP gave THREE possibilities..... THE FIRST ...was that he had a chrome pan. again......scroll up......reeeed whut i rote not whut you red. :) and.......as to yer LAST sentence in this reply..... The pan gasket "almost" ALWAYS LEAKS on chrome pans when gasket shellec isn't used. again.....please reeed whut ima rite'n not whut yer a reed'n. ~:~ marsh ~drops a shroom in cuda's coffee whilst he isn't look'n........ there......that'll git his brain rite~ ~"~ In article <927d8f46-dc1c-4ceb-b758-8489ffaff0a7@e1g2000hsh.googlegroups.com >, > ========== > ========== [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > The pan gasket "almost" ALWAYS LEAKS on chrome pans > when gasket shellec isn't used. Your first reply was you claiming to disagree, which in fact was you offering "other possibilities." I responded based upon the facts the OP gave, which I still stand behind (too much torque). Did I disagree with the possibilities that you offered Marsh? > again.....please reeed whut ima rite'n not whut yer a reed'n. I do read what you write, bad as it may be to decipher... ...but that's not my fault. Seems to me you should take your own advice. > In article > <0faa3f34-3245-4893-932c-cd53a4344...@o42g2000hsc.googlegroups.co [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I said it was. > Got it now? ==== ==== you're wrong.....i'm rite..... undertand?? :) ~:~ marsh ~sips his shroomjuice~ ~:~ In article <da7957c1-c2f0-4b39-9f16-7d52cddc824c@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >, > you're wrong.....i'm rite..... Really? How can you be certain? > undertand?? Nope. > In article > <da7957c1-c2f0-4b39-9f16-7d52cddc8...@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Nope. ======= ======= read the thread........... i'm certain i'm RITE. anywhoooooo........there's NO WAY i can be wrong....... :) again.......read my FIRST reply to the thread :) ~:~ marsh ~takes a toke.......mmmmmm.......good stuff~ ~:~ In article <d70eff0c-2c6d-4945-865e-68f38c206c80@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com >, > > In article > > <da7957c1-c2f0-4b39-9f16-7d52cddc8...@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > i'm certain i'm RITE. Because you're there to see it? > anywhoooooo........there's NO WAY i can be wrong....... Because you're there to see it. > :) > > again.......read my FIRST reply to the thread The one where you offer different possibilities whilst claiming to disagree. Read what you -rote-, not what you wish I said. http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product?tmplframe=EndecaCateg oryView&storeId=10101&Pr=p_Product.CATENTRY_ID%3A2000989&reviewflag=1&productId= 2000989&catalogId=10614&langId=-1 Install a aluminum pan. http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product?tmplframe=EndecaCateg oryView&storeId=10101&Pr=p_Product.CATENTRY_ID%3A2000989&reviewflag=1&productId= 2000989&catalogId=10614&langId=-1 > Install a aluminum pan. Damn that's an expensive pan. I see that it comes with washers for the bolts, maybe I need that. H > http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product?tmplframe=EndecaCateg oryView&storeId=10101&Pr=p_Product.CATENTRY_ID%3A2000989&reviewflag=1&productId= 2000989&catalogId=10614&langId=-1 >> Install a aluminum pan. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >walk away for a day. Then put the fluid back in. After that Id think leak >elsewhere running down, or live with it. > http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product?tmplframe=... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > H ======= ======= nope..that's not what you need...... you need sealant. :) ok......so you didn't post that i was a freek'n Repair Gawd... i told you anywhoo.. :) ~:~ marsh ~drops another shroom in the boiling pot......mmm..... goood batch~ ~:~ In article <6f5373cb-bfc9-4b3b-b00a-7c17b472790a@d27g2000prf.googlegroups.co m>, > > http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product?tmplframe=... > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > you need sealant. Works for all the hacks. > http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product?tmplframe=... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > H ========= ========= A $3 bottle of Idian Head Gasket shellac.......would be cheaper. if........the pan gasket is the leak. anywhooo...you shudd'nt put THAT pan back on without the sealant either way. fact.......not fiction. ~:~ marsh ~takes a sip of the shroom juice........mmmmmm....... get'n better everyminute~ ~:~ also coat both sides of the new gasket with vaseline,,,,,,,,,worked for me. >> I have tried to replace this gasket 4 times now. I have a brand new pan, >> and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > accuracy needed at the lower range of the scale, get an inch > pound torque wrench. ========== ========== also coat both sides of the new gasket with vaseline,,,,,,,,,worked for me. ========= ========= giggle chuckle lol rotflol rotflmao ROTFLMAFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE SAID TO DO WHAT??????????????? ROTFLMAO ! ! ! ! !! ! ! ! ~:~ marsh ~takes a toke.......wow......~ ~:~ >========== >========== [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >~takes a toke.......wow......~ >~:~ Wonder if he's the same guy that said you should coat one surface with oil before you use RTV on a gasket over in the Jeep group? Here...put *this* in you pipe...and smoke it. -- Old Crow "Yol Bolson!" '82 FLTC-P "Miss Pearl" '95 YJ Rio Grande BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, MAMBM SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com My own two cents worth, I once had a TH400 that I swore was leaking through the pan gasket. After I replaced it twice, I found out the dipstick tube o-ring was seeping and running down appearing like the oil pan gasket was leaking. Another common place to look on those trannys is the modulator valve. All this is especially true if the gasket seems to always leak on the right front of the pan gasket! >I have tried to replace this gasket 4 times now. I have a brand new pan, >and [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > H. > My own two cents worth, I once had a TH400 that I swore was leaking > through the pan gasket. After I replaced it twice, I found out the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > All this is especially true if the gasket seems to always leak on the > right front of the pan gasket! Amen to that. Same for the TH350. Al ====== ====== On Dec 2, 12:18 pm, "-the HoSt-" <H...@hotmail.com> wrote in messg: It is not a huge leak, but it frustrates the hell out of me that I cannot seem to stop a simple leak, If anyone has experience with this give me a clue. ======= ======= I .......HATE repeating meself and often find i gits a bit overbearing when forced to......so.....jest let me refer you to MY original reply. and......then......if you have eeeeeeeny more questions... BY GAWD ASK THEM!!!! :) because.....i...me...alone........ HAVE SEALED MORE TRANNY LEAKS THAN CUDA HAS GOT BAD ADVICE.........or fer dat matter..everyone that's answered so far.......combined. don't believe me....?? cool...... mmmmm......who else gave chrome pan as the FIRST possible cause? :) ~:~ marsh ~takes a toke......mmmmm........good stuff~ ~:~ Marsh you dog: how the hell are you? RK > ====== > ====== [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > ~takes a toke......mmmmm........good stuff~ > ~:~ >====== >====== [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >:) The big biker guy from Arkansas...me, but the Cuda guy thinks I'm a hack, too. >~:~ >marsh >~takes a toke......mmmmm........good stuff~ >~:~ gimme that! -- Old Crow "Yol Bolson!" '82 FLTC-P "Miss Pearl" '95 YJ Rio Grande BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, MAMBM SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > The big biker guy from Arkansas...me, but the Cuda guy thinks I'm a > hack, too. Care to point out where I claimed you were a hack? >> The big biker guy from Arkansas...me, but the Cuda guy thinks I'm a >> hack, too. > >Care to point out where I claimed you were a hack? Different thread, another newsgroup, some time back. -- Old Crow "Yol Bolson!" '82 FLTC-P "Miss Pearl" '95 YJ Rio Grande BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, MAMBM SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > >> The big biker guy from Arkansas...me, but the Cuda guy thinks I'm a > >> hack, too. > > > >Care to point out where I claimed you were a hack? > > Different thread, another newsgroup, some time back. What was it about? >> >> The big biker guy from Arkansas...me, but the Cuda guy thinks I'm a >> >> hack, too. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >What was it about? I'm an old guy...I don't remember sh.t like that<g>. Wasn't important then, even less so now. Mighta been something to do with flat rate dealership technicians, but since I no longer work for a dealer and I'm not on flat rate anymore, it's water under the bridge. Got any pics of your 'Cuda? Had me a '68 Runner one time, gave it away, and now that I'm in the restoration business, I kick myself daily. -- Old Crow "Yol Bolson!" '82 FLTC-P "Miss Pearl" '95 YJ Rio Grande BS#133, SENS, TOMKAT, MAMBM SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > I have tried to replace this gasket 4 times now. I have a brand new pan, and > I always torque to 8-10 foot pounds. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > H. Well I tried to torque to 12 ft/lbs, no sealants, just a cork gasket. Much better now. Thanks all! H. > > I have tried to replace this gasket 4 times now. I have a brand new pan, > and [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > - Show quoted text - ========== ========== again....IF the gasket was the leak........ you'llllllllllllll.....beeeeeee..........srrrrrrrrrrry............. anywhoooo............ glad to hear YOU'RE happy with you're repair...... personally......i'd fire you for not doing it right the first time. cuz......if it comesback.....AGAIN.....i'ma gonna take it outta yer paycheck fer not listen'n to seasoned advice. ~:~ marsh ~takes a toke......pours you a crownroyal......wish's you duh best~ ~:~ |
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