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Car Forum / Chevrolet / Chevrolet Trucks / March 2005

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Performance Mods

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Tailgator - 28 Jan 2005 02:36 GMT
I have a 01 Silverado(Loaded LS)2500 HD ExCab. LB with an 8.1 &
Allison. I've put on a 6" Fabtech Lift with 35X12.50 TSL Super
Swampers, A K&N Air Kit, Hypertech PP3, Magnaflow Cat-back ex. Willmore
3 step nerf bars, and TracRac adjustable racks and diamond plate tool
box. I have 22k on it and It's been a great truck. I am contemplating
finally doing some performance work under the hood. I've looked into
putting a carbon fiber ram air hood kit on the truck $$, and plunking
dow the $$$ and installing a Whipple Supercharger. Obviously the
Whipple is the more expensive way to go, but the higher performance
boost.

Does anyone have any other performance upgrades they could suggest?
I've looked into a throttle body spacer and descreening the MAF sensor,
but I doubt that would make much of an increase  in HP.

Thanks!
Jeff - 28 Jan 2005 03:12 GMT
GET RID OF THE K&N YOU WILL RUIN YOUR ENGINE TRUST ME I RUINED ON ALREADY
WITH ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!

>I have a 01 Silverado(Loaded LS)2500 HD ExCab. LB with an 8.1 &
> Allison. I've put on a 6" Fabtech Lift with 35X12.50 TSL Super
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Thanks!
Adair Winter - 28 Jan 2005 03:52 GMT
> GET RID OF THE K&N YOU WILL RUIN YOUR ENGINE TRUST ME I RUINED ON ALREADY
> WITH ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, it's amazing how much of the hype/crap people believe
Tailgator - 28 Jan 2005 04:23 GMT
How did the K&N ruin your engine?
Any performance mods you can reccommend? If so, why?
Tony F - 28 Jan 2005 05:36 GMT
The only bad things I've heard about K&N is that sometimes people put too
much oil on the filters and it can blow your MAF.

Tony

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> How did the K&N ruin your engine?
> Any performance mods you can reccommend? If so, why?
Jeff - 28 Jan 2005 14:15 GMT
Let to much dirt in, when they rebuilt it only being two years old they said
it had all kinds of sand in it, wears the bearings out and then you have no
oil pressure, If you would like experiment for your self and lear what I
learned, between the two engines it only cost me about 6,000, First one was
a new rebuild then I put a K& N in it and Wrecked it, so it had to be
rebuilt again.

> How did the K&N ruin your engine?
> Any performance mods you can reccommend? If so, why?
Tailgator - 28 Jan 2005 19:38 GMT
Ouch $$$! After reading the test results I'm going back to the stock AC
Delco filter!!! Thanks for the advance warning. I never really noticed
much of a difference with the K&N, but I was going off the
recommendations of a couple of "wingnuts" who swore the K&N was better.

Do you know anyone with a Whipple? If so what do they have to say about
it?
Charles Bendig - 28 Jan 2005 21:59 GMT
> Let to much dirt in, when they rebuilt it only being two years old they said
> it had all kinds of sand in it, wears the bearings out and then you have no
> oil pressure, If you would like experiment for your self and lear what I
> learned, between the two engines it only cost me about 6,000, First one was
> a new rebuild then I put a K& N in it and Wrecked it, so it had to be
> rebuilt again.

    This is more B.S. about K&N's. If you "wrecked" a engine because of a
K&N filter, why didn't you call them? That Million Mile warranted
would have been in effect.

    The only Reason GM is having fits about them, is some people over oil
them, causing oil to leak down the intake track to sensors. Same with
Ford & Chrysler.

    K&N Filters were developed for use on Semi Trucks. Engines where
1,000,000 Miles is the Rebuild point. Semi Trucks in a large fleet get
drove all over the lower 48, to Canada, even Alaska. Some times down to
Mexico as well. They transverse in a few runs the harshest of
enviroments in the north American continent.

    Car people heard about these filters and got K&N to adapt them
for Racing usage. Including Off Road Desert Racing. Where the only
Modification required is a Coarse Foam Pre-Filter.

    I have ran K&N Filters on stock engines & highly modified
Race engines. I have NEVER had a engine fail from ANY air Filter. Not
even el-cheepo off brand paper filters.

    I have on the other hand Over Heated engines running with
blown radiators in races. I have taken Small Block Chevy's over
280 degrees to the point on thermal lock-up.

    Do you know what happens when you Over Heat a SBC? All the
CASTING sand left in the lower coolant gallies, and in the lower oil
gallies dislodges. This happens with about any brand of American Engine,
and some import engines.

    Which is why ANY machine shop worth a penny HOT TANKS a block.
A Hot Tank is a tank filled with heated Costic Soda. A engine is lowered
in to it and taken to above 400 Degrees. This not only dislodges Sand
trapped in the engine from the casting process, it also removes any
baked in oil sludge, and galvanic corrosion.

    If you want to see a good example of what some of my engines
go thru: http://www.smashcar.com

   

    When it comes to finding out why stock engines die, Amature class races
tend to learn quickly.

Charles Bendig
Steve W. - 29 Jan 2005 00:38 GMT
B.S.  K&N was NOT developed for OTR trucks. Matter of fact if you can
find a OTR truck that isn't running either a Fleetguard or Baldwin
filter from the factory I'd be REAL surprised.

> > Let to much dirt in, when they rebuilt it only being two years old they said
> > it had all kinds of sand in it, wears the bearings out and then you have no
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>
> Charles Bendig
Charles Bendig - 29 Jan 2005 09:14 GMT
> B.S.  K&N was NOT developed for OTR trucks. Matter of fact if you can
> find a OTR truck that isn't running either a Fleetguard or Baldwin
> filter from the factory I'd be REAL surprised.

    Considering Im not a Heavy Deisel Mechanic by trade, I don't even have
a clue what is OEM on Semi's. I get goat roped in to helping out at a
fleet terminal from time to time. Every truck get under the cowling/hood
of has atleast 300,000 miles on it.

Charles Bendig
Neil Nelson - 29 Jan 2005 16:56 GMT
> > B.S.  K&N was NOT developed for OTR trucks. Matter of fact if you can
> > find a OTR truck that isn't running either a Fleetguard or Baldwin
> > filter from the factory I'd be REAL surprised.
>
>     Considering Im not a Heavy Deisel Mechanic by trade, I don't even have
> a clue what is OEM on Semi's.
<snip>

Then why would you post that OTR semi's use K&N?
Charles Bendig - 31 Jan 2005 02:31 GMT
>>>B.S.  K&N was NOT developed for OTR trucks. Matter of fact if you can
>>>find a OTR truck that isn't running either a Fleetguard or Baldwin
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Then why would you post that OTR semi's use K&N?

OEM stands for Orginal Equipiment Manufactor. In a OTR truck, how long
does the OEM filter the factory put in stay in for?

    Im not a heavy Deisel Mechanic by Trade. I do some work on them, yet it
is not my primary means of income. Yet I do enough work on them to see
the same trucks in a service bay at a Fleet Terminal.

    I started to service Heavy Deisels as a Hobby. Cars, light trucks, and
vans get boring after a while.

Charles Bendig
Neil Nelson - 31 Jan 2005 13:53 GMT
> OEM stands for Orginal Equipiment Manufactor.

Actually, it stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer.

> In a OTR truck, how long
> does the OEM filter the factory put in stay in for?

Until it's dirty, then it's replaced with one that meets
specifications.

>     Im not a heavy Deisel Mechanic by Trade.

Well, I was, for a paving company and for a large utility serving
a large metropolitan area.  An air filter other than what meets
OEM specs on a truck such as this is just plain stupid.

> I do some work on them, yet it
> is not my primary means of income. Yet I do enough work on them to see
> the same trucks in a service bay at a Fleet Terminal.

I don't doubt that for one second.

>     I started to service Heavy Deisels as a Hobby. Cars, light trucks, and
> vans get boring after a while.

You crack me up.
Steve W. - 01 Feb 2005 15:06 GMT
> > OEM stands for Orginal Equipiment Manufactor.
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> > I started to service Heavy Deisels as a Hobby. Cars, light trucks,
and
> > vans get boring after a while.
>
> You crack me up.

> Neil Nelson wrote:
> > In article <CtIKd.6$Wi6.0@fe2.columbus.rr.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> >>
> >>>B.S.  K&N was NOT developed for OTR trucks. Matter of fact if you
can
> >>>find a OTR truck that isn't running either a Fleetguard or Baldwin
> >>>filter from the factory I'd be REAL surprised.
> >>
> >> Considering Im not a Heavy Deisel Mechanic by trade, I don't even
have
> >>a clue what is OEM on Semi's.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Im not a heavy Deisel Mechanic by Trade. I do some work on them, yet
it
> is not my primary means of income. Yet I do enough work on them to see
> the same trucks in a service bay at a Fleet Terminal.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Charles Bendig

10K and changed out. 99% of the time with a new Fleetguard or Baldwin !
I don't know any drivers who use K&N in their OTR rigs. After reading
the tests about them being junk it makes sense why.

Read some of the following and then tell me how "great" K&N are.

http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

Info - Automatic Transmission Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or
Service
Engine Soon (SES) Light On as a Result of the Installation of an
Aftermarket
Reusable, Excessively Oiled Air Filter #04-07-30-013 - (03/05/2004)

Automatic Transmission Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or Service
Engine
Soon (SES) Light On as a Result of the Installation of an Aftermarket
Reusable,
Excessively Oiled Air Filter 2004 and Prior Cars and Light Duty Trucks
2003-2004 HUMMER H2

  First, Inspect the vehicle for a reusable aftermarket oiled air
filter
DO NOT repair under warranty if concerns result from the use of a
reusable aftermarket oiled air filter.

The installation of an aftermarket reusable, oiled air filter may
result in:
  a.. Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On
  b.. Transmission shift concerns, slipping and damaged clutch(es) or
band(s)
  c.. Engine drivability concerns, poor acceleration from a stop,
limited engine RPM range

The oil that is used on these air filter elements may be transferred
onto the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor causing contamination of the
sensor. As
a result, the Grams per Second (GPS) signal from the MAF may be low and
any or all of the concerns listed above may occur.

When servicing a vehicle with any of these concerns, be sure to check
for the presence of an aftermarket reusable, excessively oiled air
filter.
The MAF, GPS reading should be compared to a like vehicle with a OEM
air
box and filter under the same driving conditions to verify the concern.

Transmission or engine drivability concerns that are the result of
the installation of an aftermarket reusable, excessively oiled air
filter
are not considered to be warrantable repair items.

 This part is from a gentleman who actually TESTED K&N in real world
applications.

Subj: K & N filters
John: If I wrote "subjective" I meant "objective".. I was responsible
for evaluating re-usable air filters for a major construction/mining
company that had hundreds of vehicles ranging from large earthmovers
to pick-up trucks and salesmen's cars. This study was embarked upon
due to the fact that we were spending upwards of $30,000 a MONTH on
paper
air filters. Using them one time then throwing them away.. I initiated
the study in that I was convinced that a K&N type filter or oiled foam
would save us many dollars per year in filter savings, man hour
savings, and of course engines as these would filter dirt better than
paper. (yes, I had read the K&N ads and was a believer)

Representative test units were chosen to give us a broad spectrum from
cars right through large front end loaders. With each unit we had a
long history of oil analysis records so that changes would be
traceable. Unfortunately, for me, every single unit having alternative
re-usable air cleaners showed an immediate large jump in silicon (dirt)
levels
with corresponding major increases in wear metals. In one extreme
case, a unit with a primary and secondary air cleaner, the secondary
(small paper element) clogged before even one day's test run could be
completed. This particular unit had a Cummins V-12 engine that had
paper / paper on one bank and K&N / paper on the other bank; two
completely independent induction systems. The conditions were EXACTLY
duplicated for each bank yet the K&N allowed so much dirt to pass
through that
the small filter became clogged before lunch. The same outcome occurred
with oiled foams on this unit.

We discontinued the tests on the large pieces almost immediately but
continued with service trucks, foremen's vehicles, and my own company
car. Analysis results continued showing markedly increased wear rates
for all the vehicles, mine included. Test concluded, switched back to
paper/glass and all vehicles showed reduction back to near original
levels of both wear metals and dirt. I continued with the K&N on my
company car out of stubbornness and at 85,000 miles the Chevy 305 V-8
wheezed its last breath. The top end was sanded badly; bottom end was
just fine. End of test.

I must stress that EVERYONE involved in this test was hoping that
alternative filters would work as everyone was sick about pulling out
a perfectly good $85 air cleaner and throwing 4 of them away each week
per machine...

So, I strongly suggest that depending upon an individual's long term
plan for their vehicles they simply run an oil analysis at least once
to see that the K&N or whatever alternative air filter is indeed
working IN THAT APPLICATION... It depends on a person's priorities. If
you
want performance then indeed the K&N is the way to go but at what
cost???

And no, I do not work for a paper or glass air filter manufacturing
company nor do I have any affiliation with anything directly or
indirectly that could benefit George Morrison as a result..

Signature

Steve Williams

Tailgator - 06 Feb 2005 03:37 GMT
I planon keeping this truck for awhile so I'm going to go back to the
AC Delco air filter. Does it make sense to flush the engine oil to
remove sand and grit that may have accumulated in the engine already?
Or am I just wasting my time and money and possibly doing damage to my
engine?

I didn't mean to get into a air filter debate when I posted this
message. I am more interested in maximizing the performance of my 8.1L.
If anyone has some performance enhancing tips I sure would appreciate
them.  Thanks!
calhoun - 06 Feb 2005 15:28 GMT
>I am more interested in maximizing the performance of my 8.1L.
> If anyone has some performance enhancing tips I sure would appreciate
> them.  Thanks!

Best bang for buck is a custom tune (now I've started the Westers, Nelson,
PCM for less debate). I prefer to do it myself, with hptuners, but I am sure
others will share there tips.
dcbryan - 29 Jan 2005 13:06 GMT
<snip>
> K&N Filters were developed for use on Semi Trucks. Engines where
> 1,000,000 Miles is the Rebuild point. Semi Trucks in a large fleet get
> drove all over the lower 48, to Canada, even Alaska. Some times down to
> Mexico as well. They transverse in a few runs the harshest of enviroments
> in the north American continent.

not according to http://www.knfilters.com/KNHistory.htm

> Car people heard about these filters and got K&N to adapt them
> for Racing usage. Including Off Road Desert Racing. Where the only
> Modification required is a Coarse Foam Pre-Filter.

<snip>

Dave
Bill - 28 Jan 2005 23:01 GMT
 I`ve been running a K&N for years.I`ve had several different sizes,on
several different vehicles and never had a problem.Rebuilt my last motor
that had a K&N for 62,000 miles and everything was good.I just wanted to
freshen up the motor!
calhoun - 28 Jan 2005 13:46 GMT
Go here for a test of the aftermarket air filters
http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
Then change back to a paper element.

Loose the hypertech and get a custom tune much more bang for the buck. If
you get the whipple you will want a tune anyway.

Forget about throttle spacers. I think this whole idea came from carburetor
spacers. They worked somewhat by insulating the carb and allowing more
runner distance for the fuel/air to mix. Throttle body has no fuel going
though it so no advantage by raising it.

Leave the MAF alone the screen smoothes the air flow for a more accurate
reading.

>I have a 01 Silverado(Loaded LS)2500 HD ExCab. LB with an 8.1 &
> Allison. I've put on a 6" Fabtech Lift with 35X12.50 TSL Super
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Thanks!
Tailgator - 28 Jan 2005 19:32 GMT
Thanks for the info. I guess I switch back to the stock AC Delco
Filter!
Texas Legend - 02 Feb 2005 08:54 GMT
ok, so the data suggests cotton/oil filters aren't as efficient as paper.
is there a cone shaped filter to replace the K&N? i ask only because
i replaced the stock filter box with the K&N 'filter charger' version and
only god knows what i did with the box.

'99 NBS 5.3L Silverado Z71

late.

>I have a 01 Silverado(Loaded LS)2500 HD ExCab. LB with an 8.1 &
> Allison. I've put on a 6" Fabtech Lift with 35X12.50 TSL Super
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Thanks!
Jim Anderson - 02 Feb 2005 14:48 GMT
I haven't tried them yet but the write ups look good. And they say they're
guaranteed.
http://www.spiralmax.com/
http://www.turbonator.com/

>I have a 01 Silverado(Loaded LS)2500 HD ExCab. LB with an 8.1 &
> Allison. I've put on a 6" Fabtech Lift with 35X12.50 TSL Super
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Thanks!
Steve W. - 02 Feb 2005 16:09 GMT
Just more junk.
Twisting the air BEFORE the intake does nothing. The intake negates all
the "swirl" effect.  Just the facts.

Signature

Steve Williams

> I haven't tried them yet but the write ups look good. And they say they're
> guaranteed.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> >
> > Thanks!
Tailgator - 04 Feb 2005 03:48 GMT
Do they really work?
Sean Cook - 04 Mar 2005 02:33 GMT
4x4
>I have a 01 Silverado(Loaded LS)2500 HD ExCab. LB with an 8.1 &
> Allison. I've put on a 6" Fabtech Lift with 35X12.50 TSL Super
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Thanks!
 
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