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Car Forum / Chevrolet / Chevrolet Trucks / May 2005Transmission fluid mystery
Hi guys! I have a problem on my K1500 92 Suburban. The transmission fluid goes to the transfer case ! So I have a leak on the output transfer case seal. I've replaced it, but nothing changes. When I open the filler plug of the transfer case, 3 or 4 liters of transmission fluid goes out ! And then, when I drive about 200 miles, I loose the same quantity from the 4L60.... And I can find the lost fluid again in the transfer case....What could be the problem as I can't imagine the transmission fluid going from a gearbox to another one! What could be the way used by the fluid? What should I replace to keep the transmission fluid at its right place? Moreover, the transmission is a new one from TCI (less than 20 k miles) Any help will be great! Thanks in advance for your help!!!! Phil you have a bad seal at the FRONT of the transfer case > Hi guys! > I have a problem on my K1500 92 Suburban. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Thanks in advance for your help!!!! > Phil My 89 did a similar thing. Except it would pump the fluid out of the transfer case and into the transmission. I found this out after I started searching for a high pitched squeal coming from the drive train and found the transfer case about 1 qt low. Never had a leak under the truck so I checked the transmission and, you guessed it, over full. In any case, I had the replace the seal between the transmission and the transfer case. It was kind of a big job, but the shop manual gave fair instructions. The seal is a double seal (dual cup seal) to hold pressure from both directions. The problem was the engineers did not provide a drain hole between the seal to indicate a leak. This changed sometime before 97. There now is a drain hole in the adaptor that connects the transmission to the transfer case. Good luck. > you have a bad seal at the FRONT of the transfer case > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Thanks in advance for your help!!!! > > Phil > This changed sometime before 97. There now is a drain hole in the > adaptor that connects the transmission to the transfer case. There is? I've never seen one on the GM products. Jeep had that drain hole, which was a much better system...but I'm still fixing GM products that put the trans fluid into the t/case without showing any signs of leakage. Ian > > This changed sometime before 97. There now is a drain hole in the > > adaptor that connects the transmission to the transfer case. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > fixing GM products that put the trans fluid into the t/case without > showing any signs of leakage. you either ? never seen a 'drain hole' on a GM............the way the adapter is constructed, it's not possible Man, this really ticks me off, but you are right. I must have been working on a neighbors truck because I did see a drain hole ... somewhere! In any case, after reading this, I was forced to crawl under my truck to look and, you guessed it, no drain hole. Then I pulled my shop manual, and there is only the single double seal shown. My truck is a 97 K1500, 350, Auto, with a NV243(electric shift). So, as I mentioned in my other note, my 89 had this seal leak at about 35K miles. My 97 has 107K on it and I have not had a problem. When the seal let go on my 89, it almost took out the transfer case because the fluid transferred out of the transfer case and into the transmission. If the opposite happens, and you overfill the transfer case, what fails? Do you loose fluid out the vent? > > > This changed sometime before 97. There now is a drain hole in the > > > adaptor that connects the transmission to the transfer case. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > never seen a 'drain hole' on a GM............the way the adapter is > constructed, it's not possible > Man, this really ticks me off, but you are right. I must have been > working on a neighbors truck because I did see a drain hole ... > somewhere! Yeah...other makes do this. Jeep used a seal at the rear of the transmission, and one at the front of the t/case. When fluid leaked from one or the other, it didn't transfer to the other part, it just leaked into the adapter section, and there was a drain hole in the adapter section. GM uses a gasket to seal the t/case to the rear of the transmission, and the one seal on the input shaft of the t/case to keep fluid in/out on the t/case. Rarely does the t/case fluid go into the trans, usually always the other way around in my experience. > So, as I mentioned in my other note, my 89 had this seal leak at > about 35K miles. My 97 has 107K on it and I have not had a problem. > When the seal let go on my 89, it almost took out the transfer case > because the fluid transferred out of the transfer case and into the > transmission. If the opposite happens, and you overfill the transfer > case, what fails? Do you loose fluid out the vent? Most of the time....I just notice that trans fluid comes pouring out of the t/case fill plug when doing regular maintenance inspections. This automatically tells you what has happened. Usually, the t/case doesn't seem to spit the oil out anywhere. There is probably only a certain amount of fluid that will transfer into the t/case due to the level of fluid in the trans. Ian So, what bad stuff would happen if you just left the extra fluid in the transfer case? > > Man, this really ticks me off, but you are right. I must have been > > working on a neighbors truck because I did see a drain hole ... [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Ian > So, what bad stuff would happen if you just left the extra fluid in > the transfer case? It's probably the transmission that will suffer more from being low on fluid, then the t/case being high on fluid. Ian > Most of the time....I just notice that trans fluid comes pouring out > of the t/case fill plug when doing regular maintenance inspections. > This automatically tells you what has happened. Usually, the > t/case doesn't seem to spit the oil out anywhere. There is probably > only a certain amount of fluid that will transfer into the t/case due > to the level of fluid in the trans. But it can come out somewhere... When that seal let go on my 700R4 the tranny fluid would spit out from <somewhere> while decelerating off of the expressway, spray over the exhaust, and cause one HELL of a smokeshow. Funny, several mechanics didn't believe me that the tranny fluid kept dropping and insisted it was coolant going through the engine... Idiots... case vent the vent is supposed to be hooked to a long tube going up behind the engine, but lots of times it isn't.......... > > Most of the time....I just notice that trans fluid comes pouring out > > of the t/case fill plug when doing regular maintenance inspections. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Funny, several mechanics didn't believe me that the tranny fluid kept > dropping and insisted it was coolant going through the engine... Idiots... > case vent > > the vent is supposed to be hooked to a long tube going up behind the engine, > but lots of times it isn't.......... That makes sense, I never bothered to check where the ATF had been blowing out. I did feel bad for that lady in the minivan behind me on that offramp though. It really was a LOT of smoke. ;) > But it can come out somewhere... When that seal let go on my 700R4 the > tranny fluid would spit out from <somewhere> while decelerating off > of the expressway, spray over the exhaust, and cause one HELL of a > smokeshow. Funny, several mechanics didn't believe me that the tranny > fluid kept dropping and insisted it was coolant going through the > engine... Idiots... As Gary mentions, you probably had oil coming out the vent. There is no seal on the GM transmissions at the rear if it's a 4x4. It's the front seal on the t/case that fails. In that case, the fluid goes nowhere, but into the t/case. Your situation is totally different then what is being discussed in this thread. Ian > Your situation is totally different then what is being > discussed in this thread. How do you figure? The seal on the front of my t-case went out allowing ATF to fill the t-case. My ATF just found a way out when put under pressure (in a spectacular fashion I might add) which is rather unusual. I don't see how that is terribly different than Phil's situation... > How do you figure? The seal on the front of my t-case went out > allowing ATF to fill the t-case. My ATF just found a way out when put > under pressure (in a spectacular fashion I might add) which is rather > unusual. I don't see how that is terribly different than Phil's > situation... Sorry, just going by what your post said. You said "when that seal let go on my 700R4". There is no seal on the transmission that allows the fluid to go into the t/case, but as your subsequent post mentions, you really meant the front seal on the t/case. I haven't seen a transfer case blow oil out of its vent...but I've seen lots of transmissions blow oil out their vents. So my assumption was that you were talking about your transmission blowing oil out. Ian >> How do you figure? The seal on the front of my t-case went out >> allowing ATF to fill the t-case. My ATF just found a way out when put [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Ian No need for apologies Ian, it's obvious that slackjaw is either full of it or just making up stories. How could a transfer case build up enough pressure to blow enough fluid out to create the kind of smoke he's talking about? I've never seen it and don't believe it for a second. Bob > No need for apologies Ian, it's obvious that slackjaw is either full of it > or just making up stories. How could a transfer case build up enough > pressure to blow enough fluid out to create the kind of smoke he's talking > about? I've never seen it and don't believe it for a second. > Bob Oh you can't be serious... Hell do a quick Google search, I'm sure I posted about the problem when it reared it's ugly head in late 2000 or so. Pfft... Rookie. >> No need for apologies Ian, it's obvious that slackjaw is either full of >> it [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Pfft... Rookie. Sorry, but I don't care what you posted or when you posted it. If that much ATF got on your exhaust, it leaked out of your transmission and not your transfer case. Bob > >> No need for apologies Ian, it's obvious that slackjaw is either full of > >> it [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > ATF got on your exhaust, it leaked out of your transmission and not your > transfer case. oh, really post your proof for this amazing theory >> >> No need for apologies Ian, it's obvious that slackjaw is either full >> >> of [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > post your proof for this amazing theory SBlackfoot wrote: > But it can come out somewhere... When that seal let go on my 700R4 the > tranny fluid would spit out from <somewhere> while decelerating off > of the expressway, spray over the exhaust, and cause one HELL of a > smokeshow. Funny, several mechanics didn't believe me that the tranny > fluid kept dropping and insisted it was coolant going through the > engine... Idiots... You tell me Gary, how does a transfer case get enough pressure in it to "spray over the exhaust, and cause one HELL of a smokeshow"? I'm not saying they can't leak but I've never seen one leak that bad unless it had a hole in the case. As you well know however transmissions are notorious for blowing ATF on the exhaust and smoking like hell. Bob I'll tell you exactly how you spray fluid on the pipes throwing a huge smoke screen. I replaced my TH 350 with a 700R4 to NP 205 which has a vent on top covered only by a loose fitting domed cap. Also, the 205 is supposed to use just enough 80-90wt to wet the bottom of the gears. When the seals leak in the adapter and fill up the TC w/5wt tm fluid and you run it fast and hot, the high level of tm fluid in the TC foams up and pukes out the vent. Now you know! LD > >> >> No need for apologies Ian, it's obvious that slackjaw is either full > >> >> of [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > blowing ATF on the exhaust and smoking like hell. > Bob > I'll tell you exactly how you spray fluid on the pipes throwing a huge smoke > screen. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > know! > LD Sounds reasonable... Like I said, I never did bother to find out where the ATF was spitting out from. I had just bought the truck at the time (my first vehicle) and had a tranny shop look at it to figure out what was happening, and they made the t-case-full-of-ATF discovery. The smokeshow only happened on highway offramps when slowing down from 100+kph, every time. It lasted a good half of the ramp too. Now if I could've done that on command, that could've been fun. ;) > Sorry, but I don't care what you posted or when you posted it. If that much > ATF got on your exhaust, it leaked out of your transmission and not your > transfer case. Well if I were just a "slackjaw making up stories" I'd have to be pretty dedicated to keep it up for over four years now wouldn't I? Yep, someone sure is "full of it" and it's not I... > Sorry, just going by what your post said. You said "when that > seal let go on my 700R4". There is no seal on the transmission [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > was that you were talking about your transmission blowing oil > out. Ah fair enough, I should've been more specific. I meant my 700R4/t-case combo, but since I haven't the foggiest idea what t-case is under there I only mentioned the tranny. Sorry,but I agree with everyone. There is no way,a transfer case can build up that much pressure. I had a leak on my '97 and wasn`t sure where all the fluid was coming from.It was dripping from all over.Then the tranny yaked on me.It was coming out the vent on the tranny. Transfer case NO! Transmission YES! See my post in response to Bob. I can't speak about "all" TC's and "all" adapters but as I described, it happens. LD > Sorry,but I agree with everyone. > There is no way,a transfer case can build up that much pressure. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Transfer case NO! > Transmission YES! |
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