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Car Forum / Chevrolet / Chevrolet Trucks / November 2006Costs to replace fuel pump - '99 Suburban
OK, I don't know what Google has done, but you can no longer search news servers! What is the average charge for the part and the labor to replace the fuel pump in a '99 Suburban 1500 2WD. It appears the wonderful electric fuel pump suddenly quit on my wife today. Fortunately it was right in front of the house! It's had a flaky jittery sensor for about a year now allowing the fuel gauge to jump to F and then shake while running where the actual level is. Well, today it just stopped. No pump whine when the key is turned to ON and no start. Have to love electronic components like these!!! Looking at AutoZone and NAPA, it appears the pump assembly is between $269 and $293! Now what is the expected labor costs. Will be checking with the local stealer and another local shop in the morning, but wanted to see what others have seen. Thanks! If you can find a good independent shop expect between $400 and $500, they are going to mark the pump up and charge labor. At the dealership expect between $500 and $700, and they will only use an AC Delco part. I would imagine you can find a shade tree shop to do it for around $350. As to loving electric parts like that, yeah sure do, you got an 8 year old vehicle whose fuel pump runs at a higher pressure than the mechanical ones, and has no diaphragm to blow and fill the crankcase with fuel. They move a tremendous amount of fuel, remember there is a return line on fuel injection, mechanicals only move the 24 gallons in the tank once. On your pricing, the "Master" brand is junk. replace the sock as well as the pump, and if it has a pulsator replace it as well. Whitelightning > If you can find a good independent shop expect between $400 and $500, > they are going to mark the pump up and charge labor. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Whitelightning Thanks for the note back. I took a look at the owner's manual tonight and see there is a fuel solenoid and a fuse under the hood and hope to check those first in the morning. Can't imagine I'd get that lucky! Any way to actually test the solenoid? Continuity? Will it cause no action? Would think it could. I won't be tackling it myself should it actually need replacing. Just don't have the time or desire to mess with it in the colder and very wet weather. The frustration just comes from the part's inaccessibility. Sure the fuel cools and lubes it, but it seems there would be another way to mount it on the frame and still intercool it. Kevin > Thanks for the note back. I took a look at the owner's manual tonight and > see there is a fuel solenoid and a fuse under the hood and hope to check > those first in the morning. Can't imagine I'd get that lucky! Any way to > actually test the solenoid? Continuity? Will it cause no action? Would think > it could. Move two selenoids around. Continuity sometime give false positives, the coil can be fine cold, but as soon as a load hits the break in the windings pulls apart.. Relay runs about $14. As to fuse, yeah sometimes they just blow, but usually they blow for a reason. and it could be something as simple as a bad ground. > I won't be tackling it myself should it actually need replacing. Just don't > have the time or desire to mess with it in the colder and very wet weather. > The frustration just comes from the part's inaccessibility. Sure the fuel > cools and lubes it, but it seems there would be another way to mount it on > the frame and still intercool it. Nissan tried frame mounting fuel pumps on the early fuel injected z models and they had very high failure rates. VW air cooled tried the same thing and had issues as well. Course the way fuel pressure was regulated may have had something to do with that as well. They varied voltage to the pump to control output. Electric fuel pumps are pushers, and the closer to the fuel source the better they work. Low pressure pumps, like the generic diaphram style used on carbed engines run fairly cool, and they dont run constantly, when fuel pressure builds they stop, when it drops they start, but the higher pressure rotary pumps needed for fuel injection run hotter. Some of the ricers have gotten smart and have an access panel over the fuel pump area, but thats another soucre for rust, and if the panel isnt properly sealed when its re-installed, water entry into the car. and I have seen the bolts that hold the panel in snap off from rusted threads when removed. because of the close proximty to the fuel tank, it has to be pulled inorder to drill the bolts out, unless you want to risk drilling a hole in the tank. Also I think in many cases (not saying its the issue here) the high cost of fuel causes people to buy gas places they normally wouldnt to save 2 cents a gallon, which is usually less than a dollar saved on a fill up. Water, and dirt can raise hell with electric fuel pumps. Whitelightning > Move two selenoids around. Continuity sometime give false positives, the > coil can be fine cold, but as soon as a load hits the break in the [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Whitelightning Well, I felt the solenoid at key on and it was clicking. Pulled the fuse and it's good. Pulled the solenoid, checked contacts and put it back. Same click, no fuel pump action. Having her towed to a local dealer that will give me the trade price on the pump and lifetime warranty on parts AND labor for $600. Sounds good to me since just one more replacement would make up the little more cost of having them do it should the pump crap out again. It does have 95K miles on it so I can't complain to much! :-) Thanks, Kevin Something VERY important to remember about GM fuel pumps. The fuel in the tank cools and lubricates the fuel pump and especailly the motor. If you run it low on fuel a lot you will shorten its life and many have found out the hard way. (GM does not tell you about this) In the real world, you really do not want to run it much below a 1/4 tank often. I have a 17 year old suburbam with orginal fuel pump that works fine and I have made it a point to keep tank half full or better all of its life except when it breifs gets low on trip sometimes between fuel fills but it does have a 40 gallon tank and even when I burn 30 or so it still has 10 gallons in it. I know a lot about the motors used in those pumps because my dad was involved with a company that was testing and designing a motor for GM to use in those pumps several years before they did it in production. It was a challange to design a motor that could use gasoline as a lubricatant for its bearings. I know that he provided the motors to GM for first few years but I have no idea who does now. He passed away many years ago and took that knowledge with him. Also TBI pumps tend to last longer than Vortec ones because they operate at a lot lower line pressure and motor do not work as hard or get as warm. (12 to 14PSI vs 60 to 65PSI) ----------------- TheSnoMan.com This is an old wives tale. The pumps are cooled from the fuel passing through them, not by the fuel surrounding them. That's just the way it is. > Something VERY important to remember about GM fuel pumps. The fuel in > the tank cools and lubricates the fuel pump and especailly the motor. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com > This is an old wives tale. The pumps are cooled from the fuel passing > through them, not by the fuel surrounding them. That's just the way > it is. What's even worse is that the vehicle that Snoman is referring to has a fuel pump "module". Which retains fuel around the fuel pump even when the fuel level has gone down. As usual, his information is either outdated, or incorrect. Ian >> This is an old wives tale. The pumps are cooled from the fuel passing >> through them, not by the fuel surrounding them. That's just the way [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ian Hey Ian!! WTF? You know that it is improper to say that the automotive genius is wrong!! You will upset his all knowing fan's. He can't possibly be wrong. > Hey Ian!! WTF? You know that it is improper to say that the automotive > genius is wrong!! You will upset his all knowing fan's. He can't > possibly be wrong. I know....I know...! The "Snoboys" have crawled out of the woodwork here lately. Ian >Hey Ian!! WTF? You know that it is improper to say that the automotive >genius is wrong!! You will upset his all knowing fan's. He can't possibly be >wrong. What ever makes you feel less insecure Roy.... ----------------- TheSnoMan.com The return line on my 93 tbi dumps right on the fuel pump motor...in the referenced module. Even though that fuel has been to the engine compartment and back, wouldn't it be relatively cool compared to the motor? Gasoline does have a positive JT coefficient so the pressure drop across the regulator should provide some temperature drop. And does the engine ever use the entire flow....no recycle? I doubt it. I can say this....I just replaced the pump last month. It was put in service in May of 1993 in Hot, Texas (136K miles ago) and was run to empty damn near every tank. It also takes me about an hour to drive 8 miles to work...no telling how many hours that pump had on it. The only thing that saddened me is the way it went out. I fired it up one Saturday, drove to Taco Cabana for some tacos before an 8 a.m. barber shop appointment and when I came out with a full belly, the pump had retired. >> This is an old wives tale. The pumps are cooled from the fuel passing >> through them, not by the fuel surrounding them. That's just the way [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ian > telling how many hours that pump had on it. > > The only thing that saddened me is the way it went out. I fired it up one > Saturday, drove to Taco Cabana for some tacos before an 8 a.m. barber shop > appointment and when I came out with a full belly, the pump had retired. Ever notice how you can turn an electric fan off, then when you turn it back on it wont run? And how sometimes you can take a pencil or something and spin the blades and it will run, untill you shut it back off? same with the fuel pump. although they will usually be at the bottom end of allowed pressure before they go. Whitelightning I have noticed that phenomenon....instead of pencil though, I smacked the fuel tank with a 4x4 trying to jar the pump to spin. I checked the resistance trough the harness and it was over 60 ohms....which told me it wasn't going to run ever again. The new pump was 1.something ohms on the bench. I wonder if we could build a database of pump failures versus ohms and crudely extrapolate it to predicting failures. >> telling how many hours that pump had on it. >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Whitelightning >I have noticed that phenomenon....instead of pencil though, I smacked the >fuel tank with a 4x4 trying to jar the pump to spin. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I wonder if we could build a database of pump failures versus ohms and > crudely extrapolate it to predicting failures. That could be possible for some failures, and if it were a solid enough method the OEM's could add that to the computer, then give a warning when it's recomended to replace it. Nahhh, they would never do it. ;-) Brian Wonder how much the increased resistance is due to corrosion on the connections leading to the pump rather then the actual windings of the motor? >>I have noticed that phenomenon....instead of pencil though, I smacked the >>fuel tank with a 4x4 trying to jar the pump to spin. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Brian I think none. I measured 1.something ohms on the bench and 1.something ohms from the fuse connection on the firewall. So, less than an ohm through the wire, connectors, and ground wire. > Wonder how much the increased resistance is due to corrosion on the > connections leading to the pump rather then the actual windings of the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> >> Brian >What's even worse is that the vehicle that Snoman is referring to >has a fuel pump "module". Which retains fuel around the fuel >pump even when the fuel level has gone down. As usual, his >information is either outdated, or incorrect. No as usual you are quite clueless but you do not seem to care. Go ahead and run those pumps low all the time and burn them out if you like changing them. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >>What's even worse is that the vehicle that Snoman is referring to >>has a fuel pump "module". Which retains fuel around the fuel [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Idiot... whether you like it or not Mr. shiden_kai is right on the money. I think it's hilarious that you refer to what your father did 25 years ago as if things haven't changed since then. Bob >his is an old wives tale. The pumps are cooled from the fuel passing >through them, not by the fuel surrounding them. That's just the way it is. The trouble here is this is quite false and the blind leading the blind. I know how those things operate because over 25 years ago my father reped for a electric servo/motor company that built prototypes for GM testing and GM later used for several years. They had a lot of problems getting motor to last using gasoline as a lube for bearing as I recall him telling me back then. You go ahead and run you pump low if you want. I have never had first pump fail yet in any of mine and I have owned 4 and one for 17 years and counting. If you check around you will find that basically everyone that has shorter pump life on a GM vehicle runs tank low alot. Vortec pumps are less tolerant because they develop more heat due to much higher pressure and motor current. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com > >his is an old wives tale. The pumps are cooled from the fuel passing > >through them, not by the fuel surrounding them. That's just the way it is. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > father reped for a electric servo/motor company that built prototypes > for GM testing and GM later used for several years. a) 25 years ago, GM had but a few vehicles that used an electric fuel pump. b) a 1999 Chevy Suburban isn't 25 years old. > They had a lot of > problems getting motor to last using gasoline as a lube for bearing as > I recall him telling me back then. Good to know if time travel is ever perfected. > You go ahead and run you pump low > if you want. I have never had first pump fail yet in any of mine and I > have owned 4 and one for 17 years and counting. If you check around > you will find that basically everyone that has shorter pump life on a > GM vehicle runs tank low alot. If you check around, you'll find people who don't have shorter fuel pump life that run their tanks low also. > Vortec pumps are less tolerant because > they develop more heat due to much higher pressure and motor current. Vortec pump current is typically 2-3 amps higher than a TBI pump. That hardly equates to "much higher." Nine years ago I built a home made smoke machine that used an electric fuel pump as the pressure source to force the smoke out of the heat chamber into the connecting hose. The pump runs bone dry and still works fine to this day. > Something VERY important to remember about GM fuel pumps. The fuel in > the tank cools and lubricates the fuel pump and especailly the motor. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Well good for you SnoFlake. Now get a working spell checker. The pump has been replaced and the truck is back on the road. I've always heard the same thing about not letting the tank get much below 1/4 often. Just out of habit I keep both trucks around a half or better unless on a long trip, etc. The service guy at the dealer was surprised to hear this truck had the original pump at 93K miles since they tend to die around the 50K mile mark or so. He also noted to keep the tank at 1/4 or better to help prevent issues....... Kevin >> Something VERY important to remember about GM fuel pumps. The fuel in >> the tank cools and lubricates the fuel pump and especailly the motor. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Well good for you SnoFlake. Now get a working spell checker. > The pump has been replaced and the truck is back on the road. I've > always heard the same thing about not letting the tank get much below [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > they tend to die around the 50K mile mark or so. He also noted to > keep the tank at 1/4 or better to help prevent issues....... I sure hope they checked pin pressure on the wiring harness going to the fuel pump module. More often then not, the problem ends up being the wiring harness. Just had one in today.....99 Escalade, had three pumps put in elsewhere, turned out to be the wiring harness....one of the female pins doesn't have enough pressure and starts arcing and eventually you get no fuel pump action and often the connector on the fuel pump module melts around the affected pin. Ian > I sure hope they checked pin pressure on the wiring harness going > to the fuel pump module. More often then not, the problem ends [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ian Well, if they didn't notice any melting around the pin, that will now be their problem. The amps draw was low and the level sensor has been flaky and vibrating for over a year and a half now. With a lifetime warranty on parts and labor, I'm not worried about what happens with it now. Yea, the worst thing that could happen on your part is that you get stuck in the Taco Cabana parking lot early Saturday morning and then have to cancel your barber appointment. >> I sure hope they checked pin pressure on the wiring harness going >> to the fuel pump module. More often then not, the problem ends [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > and vibrating for over a year and a half now. With a lifetime warranty on > parts and labor, I'm not worried about what happens with it now. I have just replaced the fuel pump in my 98 K1500 for the second time in a year and a half. The first time a mechanic charged me $450 and this time I did it myself. The first was a Master and this time it is an Airtek. They both have the same product number and both are around $300, so I am thinking that they are made by the same company. Bosch's pump is about $100 more. Might have been worth the extra money. Make sure you put fuel pressure guage on the valve by the intake manifold to see if you are getting any pressure. It is supposed to be between 60 and 66 psi. I run my tank to empty often, so that could be the problem, according to everyone else. > OK, I don't know what Google has done, but you can no longer search news > servers! [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thanks! Looks like you got most of the testing done. There is a pin right next to the fuel pump relay thatyou can short +12V to and it will make the fuel pump run. I went through the same set of issues; It would run for 30 seconds and then not at all for about an hour. I was able to get under the truck and bang on the gas tank with my fists and as long as I did this, the fuel pump would not bind up and the truck would continue running. Still had to have it towed in becasue I could not strap myself under the truck and let someone drive it in. :-) :-) Check for a recall on it.. the wiring harness and sensor conectors. I have a 2000 and there were about 88K of them recalled. I got the labor for dropping the tank and re-wiring covered under the recall. I had to pay for the part and the actual additional labor to change the pump out. > OK, I don't know what Google has done, but you can no longer search news > servers! [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thanks! I have a '99 Tahoe and just replaced the fuel pump. I had the exact same thing happen to me, fuel gauge all over the place. It cost me $540 Can for the fuel Module and 3 hours labour and then of course the tax man cometh. The new fuel level sensor comes with the module. If you look at the old one, you will be able to see the tracking of the pick-ups across the different conducting bands. northernont > Looks like you got most of the testing done. There is a pin right next > to the fuel pump relay thatyou can short +12V to and it will make the [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >> >> Thanks! Strange thing is the fuel gauge is still slamming past Full and then drops back to the correct level and has a slight vibration when running. Does the sensor "always" fix this or could the gauge really be flaky itself???? Haven't called the dealer service center yet on it. >I have a '99 Tahoe and just replaced the fuel pump. I had the exact same >thing happen to me, fuel gauge all over the place. It cost me $540 Can for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > northernont ((SNIPPED CONTENT)) |
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