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Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / June 2004Hemi Not a Hemi
Automobile Magazine's Don Sherman is finally bold enough to write the truth: Chrysler's much-vaunted new "Hemi" really isn't anything more than marketing hype: http://www.automobilemag.com/news/0407_hemi/ -- Greg Beaulieu ab348@chebucto.ns.ca Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada > Automobile Magazine's Don Sherman is finally bold enough to write the > truth: Chrysler's much-vaunted new "Hemi" really isn't anything more than > marketing hype: > > http://www.automobilemag.com/news/0407_hemi/ Regardless, the performance is exceptional and that is what matters. > > Automobile Magazine's Don Sherman is finally bold enough to write > the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Regardless, the performance is exceptional and that is what matters. Recent tests of pickups suggest that the Ford's 150 non-hemi outperformed the Chrysler pickup. In other, a good motor is a good motor and hemi in itself is pure hype. Richard. > Recent tests of pickups suggest that the Ford's 150 non-hemi outperformed > the Chrysler pickup. In other, a good motor is a good motor and hemi in > itself is pure hype. Unfortunately, the Ford Modular v8 is NOT a "good motor" by any stretch of the imagination. It has been whipped and beaten into an engine that is reasonably serviceable- a process that has taken 10+ years and more revisions than anyone can keep track of, but that is hardly the record of a "good" engine. Here's an article, written by admitted Chevy fans, that describes the engineering advantages of the Chrysler 5.7L "Hemi" v8 in great detail. It comes out better than the GM LS-6 Very much worth the read: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0403phr_hemi And by the way, in the 4th picture from the top on the left hand side, you can clearly see the "deviation" from a true Hemi head that the idiot in the first article is so worked up about. Again I say, BIG DEAL. A little filling-in was done on the sides making the chamber more elliptical- its still much more nearly a Hemi than either a wedge or a pent-roof chamber. Hmm, I don't know about the Modular V8 but I sure wish someone at Ford would take care of that ()*&T(^$ piston slap that I had on my '00 and now on my '03 Expedition. Ken > > Recent tests of pickups suggest that the Ford's 150 non-hemi outperformed > > the Chrysler pickup. In other, a good motor is a good motor and hemi in [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > elliptical- its still much more nearly a Hemi than either a wedge or a > pent-roof chamber. > Hmm, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Ken That's a Modular v8 (5.4, and 4.6L). Piston slap is an issue all of the makers are having to deal with as they go to short-skirt "slipper type" hypereutectic pistons in order to get a tight seal with lower losses (although you might note from that article that the Chrysler v8 addresses it at the outset with coated-skirt pistons). But NOT all the makers have had massive oil consumption issues, head castings that erode through the water jacket, lower ends breaking out of the block under heavy use, and all the other myriad things that Ford has had happen with the modular v8. It was originally designed as a *very* light-duty v8 for light cars, and at some point some bean-counter decided "hey, we could use this to replace the (more expensive to build but much stronger) Windsor small-block and use it to drag 2.5-ton Expeditions around!" UGH! You mean to tell me that even GM and Chrysler have them as well? The service manager Ford/Toyota had stated that some Toyota SUVs have them too. Does this mean the engine won't last as long? Ken > > Hmm, > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > use this to replace the (more expensive to build but much stronger) > Windsor small-block and use it to drag 2.5-ton Expeditions around!" > UGH! > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ken Its a matter of degree. A LITTLE piston slap doesn't hurt anything. Excessive piston slap that doesn't go away completely after a few minutes of warm-up can cause collapsed piston skirts and scored cylinder walls. Don't know who all is having problems or not, other than the fact that the new Hemi has coated pistons to prevent the problem completely. You actually hear more about GM piston slap issues than you do about Ford. Toyota wouldn't surprise me, they've had all sorts of engine failure issues in recent years. > > UGH! > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Toyota wouldn't surprise me, they've had all sorts of engine failure > issues in recent years. Many late-model Subarus also have piston slap based on forum postings. Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x") At least my M doesn't have it ;-) Ken > > > UGH! > > > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- Oh well, I'll just have to live with it for now. Thanks! > > UGH! > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Toyota wouldn't surprise me, they've had all sorts of engine failure > issues in recent years. > I don't know about the Modular V8 but I sure wish someone at Ford would > take care of that ()*&T(^$ piston slap that I had on my '00 and now on > my '03 Expedition. Wow. You got one shoddy Ford, so you went and bought another shoddy Ford? I think there's a bigger problem with you than there is with your Fords, and that's really saying something. What? One vehicle and your through with the company for life? I happen to have enjoyed the '00 Expy up until it reached 50K. When I questioned the dealer about the situation, he stated that there were problems from '97 - '99 and that the new ones should not have this problem. They also said that this is normal and I sold the vehicle. Later I'm learning that this is normal and happens in other vehicles. In addition, there was nothing that Chrysler, GM or Toyota offered that was better for that year, IMO. That's not to say that the Expy was a great choice but that the others had fell short on my list of options. Ken > > I don't know about the Modular V8 but I sure wish someone at Ford would > > take care of that ()*&T(^$ piston slap that I had on my '00 and now on [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I think there's a bigger problem with you than there is with your Fords, > and that's really saying something. > What? One vehicle and your through with the company for life? I've been bitten hard enough by enough different Fords to say "NEVER again". Same goes for VW. > > What? One vehicle and your through with the company for life? > > I've been bitten hard enough by enough different Fords to say "NEVER > again". Same goes for VW. LOL! Aren't you the guy who said, "Wow. You got one shoddy Ford, so you went and bought another shoddy Ford?" So, how many did YOU buy before you realized "there's a bigger problem with you than there is with your Fords." Not to mention the VWs, LOL! > > > What? One vehicle and your through with the company for life? > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Aren't you the guy who said, "Wow. You got one shoddy Ford, so you went and > bought another shoddy Ford?" I'm the very same guy. > So, how many did YOU buy before you realized None. The futility of trying to keep others' foolishly-purchased Fords (and VWs) on the road clearly demonstrated to me what pieces of crap both makes are without having to waste any of my own money. -Stern > > > > What? One vehicle and your through with the company for life? > > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > (and VWs) on the road clearly demonstrated to me what pieces of crap both > makes are without having to waste any of my own money. Okay. Apparently, you work on others' vehicles for free. That explains the futility. Maybe if you charged them, you'd welcome their "foolishness." Cars that don't need repairs must not be very welcome to auto technicians, unless they're either incompetent or lazy. Not that either applies to you, of course. So, how there could be a "NEVER again" if there wasn't a first time? > > The futility of trying to keep others' foolishly-purchased Fords > > (and VWs) on the road clearly demonstrated to me what pieces of crap both > > makes are without having to waste any of my own money. > Okay. Apparently, you work on others' vehicles for free. Family members. > That explains the futility. It sounds as if you're not familiar with the word. > So, how there could be a "NEVER again" if there wasn't a first time? Goodness, you're nearly as dense as Whiting. -Stern > > > The futility of trying to keep others' foolishly-purchased Fords > > > (and VWs) on the road clearly demonstrated to me what pieces of crap [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > It sounds as if you're not familiar with the word. But I am, Daniel! It's the same thing most people on this forum experience when they hope that you'll comport yourself in a courteous manner. > > So, how there could be a "NEVER again" if there wasn't a first time? > > Goodness, you're nearly as dense as Whiting. See what I mean? And while you're digging in your pocket dictionary for 'comport' and 'courteous' you might as well look up 'again', too. > > > That explains the futility. > > > > It sounds as if you're not familiar with the word. > > But I am, Daniel! It's the same thing most people on this forum experience > when they hope that you'll comport yourself in a courteous manner. *shrug* Nobody forces you to read my posts. > > > > That explains the futility. > > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > *shrug* Nobody forces you to read my posts. Bye-bye, Daniel. Don't forget to kick the dog on your way out. >>>The futility of trying to keep others' foolishly-purchased Fords >>>(and VWs) on the road clearly demonstrated to me what pieces of crap both [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Goodness, you're nearly as dense as Whiting. And when he surpasses me, he'll only have you left to top. Matt > > > > What? One vehicle and your through with the company for life? > > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > -Stern Well, they say that a smart man learns from his mistakes, but a really wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x") >>What? One vehicle and your through with the company for life? > > I've been bitten hard enough by enough different Fords to say "NEVER > again". Same goes for VW. With me, its GM. I'm not a big fan of the Ford Modular engine and think they should have replaced it years ago, but I'd still buy a Ford before I'd buy a GM. I don't know anymore. When I test drove all the SUVs in the Expy class, the Yukon was the nicest of the bunch. It performed and handled very well; especially for a SUV. The interior was nicer too. Of course they wanted about $4K more than the Expy. Is it an issue of dependability? Ken > >>What? One vehicle and your through with the company for life? > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > they should have replaced it years ago, but I'd still buy a Ford before > I'd buy a GM. > I don't know anymore. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Ken More of having been snake-bitten by multiple GM cars over the years. GM cars seem much more poorly engineered in general than Ford or Chrysler cars, although they've come a long way in the past 10 years toward closing the gap. I've never had a Chrysler or Ford that you had to buy a puller to remove the power steering pump pulley BEFORE you could remove the power steering pump, which you had to remove to get to the water pump... but I've had to do that on a GM. I've had several Ford and Chrysler cars where the A/C system lasted over 200,000 miles- never got a GM past 100k miles with working A/C. Never got a GM past 150k miles with a working transmission, never had a Ford or Chrysler NOT make it to 150k with a working transmission (although my wife's Eagle Vision did get a tranny overhaul right at 150k miles). And the fact that GM threw away the comparatively well-designed Buick and Oldsmobile v8 engines in favor of standardizing on the Chevy 350- which has rods too short for its stroke, main and rod bearings that are too small, skinny little lifters that drastically limit the cam profiles you can run, and a block that was cast out of chewing gum compared to the harder alloys used by Ford and especially Chrysler. As far as straight chassis stuff, NOBODY builds a tighter, quieter chassis than Ford, and (especially back in the 60s-80s) the Chrysler chassis all handled orders of magnitude better than GM or Ford, even though the Fords were quieter. GMs were always over-sprung, had too-soft bushings, wallowed like whales, heeled over when you tried to corner, and generally mushed their way down the road. Yech. > As far as straight chassis stuff, NOBODY builds a tighter, quieter > chassis than Ford, and (especially back in the 60s-80s) the Chrysler > chassis all handled orders of magnitude better than GM or Ford, even > though the Fords were quieter. GMs were always over-sprung, had too-soft > bushings, wallowed like whales, heeled over when you tried to corner, > and generally mushed their way down the road. Yech. Donno what planet you're on. Here on this one, most cop departments switched from Caprices to Clown Victorias only when forced to by the discontinuation of the Caprice, which was a *far* better handler than the Clown Vic. -DS (and many of those only went to the Caprice after Chrysler quit selling them Gran Furies and Diplomats) >>As far as straight chassis stuff, NOBODY builds a tighter, quieter >>chassis than Ford, and (especially back in the 60s-80s) the Chrysler [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > discontinuation of the Caprice, which was a *far* better handler than the > Clown Vic. The bathtub Crappiece was indeed a good handler- a first for GM in the CopCar field. Too bad the police departments couldn't keep transmissions in them. The Texas DPS hated their fleet of Caprices- they only bought them because the governor at the time (Ann Richards- of big hair and big mouth fame) made a deal to buy them IF GM would keep the Arlington assembly plant where they were built open. A Police Car Owners Of America's poll of current and retired police officers still barely even ranked the bathtub on the all-time "best police package cars" list. The top several spots are Mopar dominated, with even M-body copcars coming out ahead of the bathtub. The M-body, R-body, and 69 Monaco (C-body) are a the top 3. The M- and R- bodies were ranked high for handling and creature comfort (seats, A/C, things cops need when they spend 12 hours a day in the car), and the Monaco was ranked for speed and handling. The R-body was actually one of the slowest Mopar squad cars ever, but still made the list because a) its comfortable, and b) no one can outrun Motorola... :-) What? No votes for the Interceptor (Holden) ? ;-) Ken > >>As far as straight chassis stuff, NOBODY builds a tighter, quieter > >>chassis than Ford, and (especially back in the 60s-80s) the Chrysler [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > slowest Mopar squad cars ever, but still made the list because a) its > comfortable, and b) no one can outrun Motorola... :-) > What? No votes for the Interceptor (Holden) ? > > ;-) > > Ken The "A" in PCOOA probably rules out many votes for it... >> What? No votes for the Interceptor (Holden) ? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > The "A" in PCOOA probably rules out many votes for it... Yeah, but they all watched Mad Max, didn't they? :) > was a great choice but that the others had fell short on my list of > options. > > Ken "the others had FALLEN short on......" Not to be nitpicky, but I expect people who can afford to buy and fuel up $40,000 SUV's to have a little better grammar. No flames needed. I know I'm an a.shole. LOL. Just playing around with ya, Ken. :-) Strike the above sentences from the record. Not a true Hemi, copied from a Porsche head design. > > > Automobile Magazine's Don Sherman is finally bold enough to write > > the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Richard. > Automobile Magazine's Don Sherman is finally bold enough to write the > truth: Chrysler's much-vaunted new "Hemi" really isn't anything more than > marketing hype: > > http://www.automobilemag.com/news/0407_hemi/ That's okay, the Ford truck V8 isn't actually a mythical sea-god, and the outgoing Magnum engine ran on gas, not champagne or gunpowder. > Automobile Magazine's Don Sherman is finally bold enough to write the > truth: Chrysler's much-vaunted new "Hemi" really isn't anything more than > marketing hype: > > http://www.automobilemag.com/news/0407_hemi/ Depending on how anal-retentive you want to be, the 60s 426 Hemi wasn't a "Hemi" either. The combustion chamber was tilted relative to the axis of the cylinder, and the valve angles were not equal. BIG DEAL. Despite minor modifications to improve flame propagation and emissions, its still a hemi-head engine. > > Automobile Magazine's Don Sherman is finally bold enough to write the > > truth: Chrysler's much-vaunted new "Hemi" really isn't anything more than [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > BIG DEAL. Despite minor modifications to improve flame propagation and > emissions, its still a hemi-head engine. True enough, I've no problem with DC calling it a Hemi, it's close enough for me. The pro stock Hemi on the other hand is a Hemi in name only. It's pretty obvious what the purpose of calling it a "hemi" is. Isn't it? How many times does the word "hemi" occur in that series of Durango commercials? Are you naturally mesmerized by commercials? You've insulted the intelligence of the whole group. Here's a news flash: "Ram" is also just marketing type. It's not really a ram. It's more of a pickup truck. > Automobile Magazine's Don Sherman is finally bold enough to write the > truth: Chrysler's much-vaunted new "Hemi" really isn't anything more than [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > -- > Greg Beaulieu ab348@chebucto.ns.ca Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada > It's pretty obvious what the purpose of calling it a "hemi" is. Isn't it? > How many times does the word "hemi" occur in that series of Durango [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >>-- >>Greg Beaulieu ab348@chebucto.ns.ca Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada I guess that "semi hemi" just wouldn't have worked in the ads... Matt > I guess that "semi hemi" just wouldn't have worked in the ads... > > Matt Nor would the "quadrant". 8^) Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x") > It's pretty obvious what the purpose of calling it a "hemi" is. Isn't it? > How many times does the word "hemi" occur in that series of Durango > commercials? Are you naturally mesmerized by commercials? It IS a Hemi engine in one very key regard- the valve heads move AWAY from the cylinder walls as the valve lifts off the seat. This, not the actual shape of the chamber, is the most important characteristic of a "hemi" head anyway. |
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