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Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / January 2005Power Brake Booster Removal
I'm trying to replace the vacumn power brake booster on a 1994 Dodge Caravan (auto transmission, V6 3.0, non-ABS). I have removed the master cylinder, the vacumn hose and the four mounting nuts inside the vehicle. The Chilton's manual then says: "...unfasten the brackets mounting the steel water line at the firewall and left frame rail." I can't seem to locate what they are talking about. It seems that I should be able to pull the unit out, but something is holding me back. I don't want to force things. Anyone know what they are talking about? Thanks. Doug > I'm trying to replace the vacumn power brake booster on a 1994 Dodge > Caravan (auto transmission, V6 3.0, non-ABS). I have removed the master > cylinder, the vacumn hose and the four mounting nuts inside the vehicle. > The Chilton's manual then says: "...unfasten the brackets mounting the > steel water line at the firewall and left frame rail." > I can't seem to locate what they are talking about. You're reading it wrong. What it really says is "This Chilton's manual is a complete waste of your time and money. Stop using it now, before you hurt yourself and/or damage your vehicle, and go buy the FACTORY service manual before you lift a wrench within 5 feet of your vehicle again." You're reading it wrong. What it really says is "This Chilton's manual is a complete waste of your time and money. Stop using it now, before you hurt yourself and/or damage your vehicle, and go buy the FACTORY service manual before you lift a wrench within 5 feet of your vehicle again." This is what you get from an idiot as Daniel Sterm is...what a way to help some one out DS Did you make sure that you disconnected the brake pedal from the booster?, and once you get that unhooked it is going to be a tight fit removing it > I'm trying to replace the vacumn power brake booster on a 1994 Dodge > Caravan (auto transmission, V6 3.0, non-ABS). [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Doug > Did you make sure that you disconnected the brake pedal from the booster?, > and once you get that unhooked it is going to be a tight fit removing it Now this is stubtance! Some real information that can be considered. In looking at various manuals some say this same bit of information AND some don't. What we need is MORE information besides the boiler plate addage to "learn to read" and "get a FSM". This is why we would like to get substance when we ask for information/help. In this world where people have been in school for a time it is naturally understood that a factory service manual is the one to have. However, some cannot afford the FSM and have to buy the Haynes - and rely on outside help - like from this ng. Lets look at costs of a FSM. Yesterday I picked up a 2002 Dakota FSM from Eastern Sales (Winnipeg) and got it through my school's auto shop. It was special order and took just over a week to get it. With taxes it was $102 Canadian. Ouch!! But it has pretty well everything! Some folks cannot afford that price in any way shape or form, and get the Haynes instead - with it's faults. Such is life - and family budgets/priorities. > "learn to read" and "get a FSM". This is why we would like to get > substance When somebody is using a Chilton's or Haynes, answering all questions with a boilerplate "get the FSM" is the single most substantive and useful response possible. If, given a good source of information, something is unclear then it's time to try to give more detail. > when we ask for information/help. In this world where people have been in > school for a time it is naturally understood that a factory service manual is > the one to have. However, some cannot afford the FSM and have to buy the > Haynes - and rely on outside help - like from this ng. Lets look at costs of a > FSM. No. No. No. Never. No. Is that clear? Just in case: no. Since a Haynes or Chilton's will cost you more in broken or unnecessary parts than buying an FSM in the first place, there is no such thing as not being able to afford the FSM. This is one place where buying anything else is what the economists call a "false economy." > Yesterday I picked up a 2002 Dakota FSM from Eastern Sales (Winnipeg) and got > it through my school's auto shop. It was special order and took just over a > week to get it. With taxes it was $102 Canadian. Ouch!! But it has pretty > well everything! Some folks cannot afford that price in any way shape or > form, and get the Haynes instead - with it's faults. Such is life - and > family budgets/priorities. No, such is penny wise, pound foolish.  SignatureJoseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer > When somebody is using a Chilton's or Haynes, answering all questions > with a boilerplate "get the FSM" is the single most substantive and > useful response possible. If, given a good source of information, > something is unclear then it's time to try to give more detail. Yep. There's more detail here: http://u225.torque.net/haynes_instructions.html > Since a Haynes or Chilton's will cost you more in broken or unnecessary > parts than buying an FSM in the first place, there is no such thing as > not being able to afford the FSM. This is one place where buying > anything else is what the economists call a "false economy." Agree. And failing to save money by buying a used FSM is what the economists call "stupid". Subsequently bitching about the pricetag is commonly called "childish". DS If you can afford to buy the parts and attempt to make the repairs yourself, YOU CAN AFFORD THE FSM! >> When somebody is using a Chilton's or Haynes, answering all questions >> with a boilerplate "get the FSM" is the single most substantive and [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > DS > > "learn to read" and "get a FSM". This is why we would like to get > > substance [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > useful response possible. If, given a good source of information, > something is unclear then it's time to try to give more detail. The unfortunate aspect of this comment is that while it is something that i believe in there are a LOT of folks who CANNOT afford to get a FSM. They scrimp and save every nickel because they have to. I see LOTS of folks who go to auto wreckers to get all sorts of parts - overhead cams, timing belts and electrical parts because they cannot afford to buy new. Their sweat equity keeps their cars running. They come with their kids sometimes to help them. Sometimes I see a torn Haynes along with their junky tools - no better quality stuff with "guarantees" like Craftsman and Canadian Tire's Mastercraft. Just some no-name stuff. And yes, they will use a blade screw driver as a chisel or as a pry bar along with an old claw hammer..... > > when we ask for information/help. In this world where people have been in > > school for a time it is naturally understood that a factory service manual is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > No. No. No. Never. No. Is that clear? Just in case: no. See my above comment. This world runs on money and everyone has a priority - even me, and you, and DS. But for some, getting a FSM is out of the question...... > Since a Haynes or Chilton's will cost you more in broken or > unnecessary parts than buying an FSM in the first place, there is no > such thing as not being able to afford the FSM. This is one place > where buying anything else is what the economists call a "false > economy." See my above comments about watching folks carry pout automatic transmissions in wheelbarrows, or shock absorbers, or exhaust systems, or... And they get their kids to help them sometimes too. You think they would listen to anyone telling them to get a FSM??? Hell, they even buy gasoline from these same auto wreckers because it is less expensive than at the gas pumps. imagine doing that on a daily or weekly basis! I personally cannot see myself doing it on any regular basis. > > Yesterday I picked up a 2002 Dakota FSM from Eastern Sales (Winnipeg) and got > > it through my school's auto shop. It was special order and took just over a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > No, such is penny wise, pound foolish. I agree, Joe, but in this world there are some folks who cannot afford to do otherwise. Period. Not everyone eats at the Waldorf Astoria or even Perkins. Lots dine as families at Burger King, McD or... And let us not forget those folks living on "food stamps" and social assistance. They have trouble getting decent food, never mind thinking of a FSM. Ever been to a library and see the thumb worn. grease stained Haynes and Chiltons manuals? There are some folks who put very little into savings for retirement, even though they keep hearing that it is important to do. Like i said; family circumstances, etc. Some folks cannot afford (they think) to put high quality oil, etc into their vehicle's maintenance schedule - just like some folks feel they cannot afford to eat properly to maintain good health. readers on this group understand that, just like readers of this ng understand that some folks cannot afford to buy a computer and get high speed connections. Such is life..... As for penny wise and pound foolish - you are preaching to the converted. I believe in FSMs! I like FSMs! Fortunately, I can afford to buy them for the Chrysler vehicles that our family owns/runs/rebuilds. Just because I have these manuals that does not mean that I don't read the Allpar web site or this ng. There is plenty of substance here - I know the FSM has good info, but there are plenty of bits of USEFUL info on the FAQs and this ng besides "get thee to a FSM". In closing, I am sorry that I have strayed from the original concern of the OP's vehicle, but... In addition, I am also not into any hoilier-than-thou pissing contest. Ken Pisichko, Ph.D. > The unfortunate aspect of this comment is that while it is something that i believe > in there are a LOT of folks who CANNOT afford to get a FSM. They scrimp and save [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > and Canadian Tire's Mastercraft. Just some no-name stuff. And yes, they will use a > blade screw driver as a chisel or as a pry bar along with an old claw hammer..... The problem is that these people are spending more money by using the wrong parts. Yes, many years ago I had a Chilton's manual. I've bought entire sets of crappy sockets. The thing is, the choice isn't (to look at tools, since that mistake bites you more quickly) to buy an expensive tool vs. a cheap one, it's to buy an expensive one vs. buying a cheap one and then an expensive one. Buy a cam at a junkyard? Why not, if it's in good shape? Buy a timing belt? Ummmm... you meant to say "buy a timing belt and then come back for virtually an entire engine", didn't you? > See my above comments about watching folks carry pout automatic transmissions in > wheelbarrows, or shock absorbers, or exhaust systems, or... And they get their kids > to help them sometimes too. You think they would listen to anyone telling them to > get a FSM??? Hell, they even buy gasoline from these same auto wreckers because it > is less expensive than at the gas pumps. imagine doing that on a daily or weekly > basis! I personally cannot see myself doing it on any regular basis. You say this like you think I don't have cylinder heads in my garage that came from a wrecking yard, or you think my car's taillights didn't come from the late great 1-800-426-hemi yard, or you think my kids haven't been out in the wrecking yards with me. There are things you can get cheap, and things you can't. When the goal is to spend the least amount of money (and of course it is), you have to know which is which. > > > Yesterday I picked up a 2002 Dakota FSM from Eastern Sales (Winnipeg) and got > > > it through my school's auto shop. It was special order and took just over a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > mind thinking of a FSM. Ever been to a library and see the thumb worn. grease > stained Haynes and Chiltons manuals? I don't think you really understand the expression "penny wise, pound foolish." It means trying to scrimp on pennies with the result that you spend more money as a result. It's like saving money by eating at McD's when cooking a hamburger at home would cost less. > There are some folks who put very little into savings for retirement, even though > they keep hearing that it is important to do. Like i said; family circumstances, > etc. Some folks cannot afford (they think) to put high quality oil, > etc into their And if (they think) they can't afford to make the investment that will save them money in the short (let alone long) run, the right thing to do is to point out that they're thinking wrong. SignatureJoseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer Joe, without going into details, I think we are both talking the same talk. Yes, certainly understand expressions in the English language. I live in an English speaking world. Thank you again for this discussion. Ken Pisichko, Ph.D. > The unfortunate aspect of this comment is that while it is something that i believe > in there are a LOT of folks who CANNOT afford to get a FSM. They scrimp and save > every nickel because they have to. I see LOTS of folks who go to auto wreckers to > get all sorts of parts - overhead cams, timing belts and electrical parts because > they cannot afford to buy new. And so you suggest that they potentially damage or destroy these "scrimped and saved for" parts because of outright WRONG information that fills the pages of Haynes? I respectfully submit that buying an FSM *ALWAYS* saves money in the long run. Whazzamatter? The words are right there. It seems they HAVE TO buy used parts. Read again ..... > >...because they cannot afford to buy new........ > > And so you suggest that they potentially damage or destroy these > "scrimped and saved for" parts because of outright WRONG information > that fills the pages of Haynes? Yes, the words are right there: if the parts are so hard to come by, how can they possibly risk doing more damage than good because of the misinformation in Haynes-type manuals? > Whazzamatter? The words are right there. It seems they HAVE TO buy used parts. Read again > ..... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>"scrimped and saved for" parts because of outright WRONG information >>that fills the pages of Haynes? The parts are readily available - it is just that some folks cannot afford to buy new - so they buy used. Folks do that... I really wonder if those folks even pay any attention to the differences in details and information between a FSM and a Haynes/Chiltons. Are you interested in doing some empirical research, publishing the results in a peer-reviewed journal and ending this sub-thread??? > Yes, the words are right there: if the parts are so hard to come by, how > can they possibly risk doing more damage than good because of the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >>"scrimped and saved for" parts because of outright WRONG information > >>that fills the pages of Haynes? I did disconnect the brake pedal from the booster. It seems that there is something holding it back. Thanks for the response. Doug When you ask Daniel Stern a question if he cant find it on the net thats the answer you get, Im sure he is searching for an answer now. You have to unfasten the brackets on the steel heater valve water line at the dash panel and the left frame rail..If this is a manual transmission you have to unfasten the clutch cable bracket at the shock tower. slide the PBB unit up and to the left. THE MOUNTING HOLES ARE SLOTTED ON THE DASH PANEL,,, then tilt inboard and up to remove it, I think you are having a problem where the holes are slotted. It is a very tight fit. good luck |
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