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Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / January 2005'95 Jeep Grand Cherokee: How bad is this going to be?
(REPOST AFTER CRAP) Hi: Had a breakdown last night, I'm pretty worried about what might have happened, any advice or enlightenment will be greatly appreciated. Here is the sequence of events: - left work at about 7:00pm in very cold weather (-20C). - as I was entering the highway, my Jeep hesitated a bit like it was going to stall, but then ran fine. - within a few moments, the thermostat went through the roof, so I pulled off the highway at the next exit. The coolant was very low (nothing in the resevoir), so I bought a jug of coolant, topped it up (about 2 litres to bring it to the fill line). - the only other sign of trouble to my untrained eyes was that the rad was still cold, and the heater was generating zero heat. No apparent leaks, steam, smell, etc. - tried it out again to see if the temp would come back down. - Still bad, so I pulled off the road. While trying to get back to the gas station, there were dieseling sounds and the engine ran very rough. I couldn't even get to the station before the engine stalled. The engine *would* turn, although it was labouring. I thought better of trying to force it. - at this point there was steam in the engine compartment, and not to steer you in any particular direction, but it seemed to me to be coming directly out of the perimeter of the cylinder head. - had the vehicle towed to the only place open at almost 8:00pm: Crappy Tire. The vehicle is there now and I'm waiting to hear. My opinion is the head gasket is blown, and dumped coolant in the combustion chamber(s). So, my questions are: - Why? Does the fact that the rad stayed cool throughout mean something froze and caused this situation? Or is the root cause the (possible) blown gasket, thus the coolant followed the path of least resistance, i.e., not to the rad? - What now? Given the high temp, possible contamination and definite laboured engine turnover, is something totally pooched at this point? - What is the general procedure for fixing this? Is it possible there is no major damage? Can the (possibly blown) gasket be replaced, the engine flushed, the oil and coolant replaced and hope for the best? Thanks again. > (REPOST AFTER CRAP) > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > (nothing in the resevoir), so I bought a jug of coolant, topped it up > (about 2 litres to bring it to the fill line). Did you fill the external reservoir, or did you open the radiator and add coolant directly to the radiator? If you just topped the reservoir and did NOT add coolant to the radiator, its very possible that the engine was still stone-empty. > - the only other sign of trouble to my untrained eyes was that the rad > was still cold, and the heater was generating zero heat. No apparent > leaks, steam, smell, etc. A sign of no coolant in the engine, or at least not enough to circulate. The other bad thing that happens in that condition is that the temperature indicator will often read abonormally low until the engine is SEVERELY overheated because the only way the sensor is heated is by conduction through the engine block and heads, not through circulating coolant. > - tried it out again to see if the temp would come back down. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > engine *would* turn, although it was labouring. I thought better of > trying to force it. By the time you hear dieseling sounds, the insides of the combustion chamber are red hot. > - at this point there was steam in the engine compartment, and not to > steer you in any particular direction, but it seemed to me to be coming > directly out of the perimeter of the cylinder head. Steam or smoke? Could just be oil residue burning off because the head was so abnormally hot. > - had the vehicle towed to the only place open at almost 8:00pm: Crappy > Tire. The vehicle is there now and I'm waiting to hear. > > My opinion is the head gasket is blown, and dumped coolant in the > combustion chamber(s). You don't say what engine, but it has to be either a 4.0 (most likely) or a 5.2 if its a '95. Both of those engines have cast iron heads and cast iron blocks- you have to REALLY roast either one in order to blow a head gasket. I'm not saying it didn't happen, and the fact that it was making diesel noises is a bad sign, but I've seen both 318 (5.2) v8s and 4.0 sixes survive overheating to the point that they sounded like 18-wheelers before. > So, my questions are: > > - Why? Does the fact that the rad stayed cool throughout mean something > froze and caused this situation? Or is the root cause the (possible) > blown gasket, thus the coolant followed the path of least resistance, > i.e., not to the rad? It probably means either that, or that there was no coolant at all. A possible scenario is that a block freeze plug popped out and when the engine warmed up, everything drained as you were first beginning to drive. > - What now? Given the high temp, possible contamination and definite > laboured engine turnover, is something totally pooched at this point? If it was an aluminum-headed (or worse yet alumimum block and head) engine, then it would definitely be history. But given that its either a 5.2 or 4.0, it may live many more years. It all depends on just HOW hot it really got, and no one can tell just from a verbal description. The fact that you didn't push it after it started rattling is a very VERY good thing. > - What is the general procedure for fixing this? Is it possible there > is no major damage? Can the (possibly blown) gasket be replaced, the > engine flushed, the oil and coolant replaced and hope for the best? Fix the coolant loss or freezing problem FIRST, and then see how it does. If there is a loss of compression or coolant in the oil or coolant leaking at the head gasket, then the head will have to come off, the gasket be replaced, and the block and head checked for flatness and machined if necessary. The head should also be checked for cracking at that time. WORST case is if it got hot enough to wreck the piston rings, in which case it probably will not re-start because it won't have any compression. That should be fairly easy to rule out. > Did you fill the external reservoir, or did you open the radiator and > add coolant directly to the radiator? If you just topped the reservoir > and did NOT add coolant to the radiator, its very possible that the > engine was still stone-empty. Damn I wish I had thought of that. You're probably exactly right. >> - the only other sign of trouble to my untrained eyes was that the rad >> was still cold, and the heater was generating zero heat. No apparent [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > conduction through the engine block and heads, not through circulating > coolant. One thing I forgot to mention: the heater in the cabin generated no heat at all. > By the time you hear dieseling sounds, the insides of the combustion > chamber are red hot. I assumed it was due to coolant in the combustion chamber. >> - at this point there was steam in the engine compartment, and not to >> steer you in any particular direction, but it seemed to me to be coming >> directly out of the perimeter of the cylinder head. > > Steam or smoke? Could just be oil residue burning off because the head > was so abnormally hot. I would definitely say steam, and it had that rad smell to it. > You don't say what engine, but it has to be either a 4.0 (most likely) Yes, that's correct. > or a 5.2 if its a '95. Both of those engines have cast iron heads and > cast iron blocks- you have to REALLY roast either one in order to blow a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > It probably means either that, or that there was no coolant at all. I'll bet that's it. > A > possible scenario is that a block freeze plug popped out and when the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > fact that you didn't push it after it started rattling is a very VERY > good thing. I had it towed to a dealership after my original post, and I'm sure they'll update me. The fact that I drove until it stalled (probably 10 minutes total after refilling the coolant reservoir) worries me. I have a bad feeling. > Fix the coolant loss or freezing problem FIRST, and then see how it > does. If there is a loss of compression or coolant in the oil or coolant [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > case it probably will not re-start because it won't have any > compression. That should be fairly easy to rule out. I appreciate the insight, that you very much. > > (REPOST AFTER CRAP) > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Did you fill the external reservoir, or did you open the radiator and > add coolant directly to the radiator? If you just topped the reservoir > and did NOT add coolant to the radiator, its very possible that the [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > You don't say what engine, but it has to be either a 4.0 (most likely) > or a 5.2 if its a '95. Both of those engines have cast iron heads and > cast iron blocks- you have to REALLY roast either one in order to blow a > head gasket. I'm not saying it didn't happen, and the fact that it was [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > It probably means either that, or that there was no coolant at all. A > possible scenario is that a block freeze plug popped out and when the > engine warmed up, everything drained as you were first beginning to drive. > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > it really got, and no one can tell just from a verbal description. The > fact that you didn't push it after it started rattling is a very VERY > good thing. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > case it probably will not re-start because it won't have any > compression. That should be fairly easy to rule out. It may not be that scary. Sounds like a HG is indeed blown, but I like the freeze plug theory. Might fake you out if you don't know exactly what you're looking at. I did almost exactly the same sequence in my '62 Studebaker one morning - I just got up and decided I felt like driving an old car to work. Pulled out of my driveway and headed off down the highway. I'd apparently blown a freeze plug before I hit the highway, but I never noticed because the road was unlit. Once on the highway, I could see little wisps of steam following the car, so I pulled off at the next exit. Once I dropped below highway speeds the engine got smokin' hot, with the associated diesel noises. I replaced the offending freeze plug (@#$%$^%& disc plugs - ended up using the screw in rubber type as I was unable to get the disc type to seal reliably without pulling the engine to set them) and changed the oil, and the car still has enough power to roast the clutch, apparently :( I have much respect for both the 318 and the 4.0, they seem to be just as basically strong as a Stude engine, so who knows, this may not be as bad as you think (of course, it could be just as bad as you think... you do need to have it checked out) nate My fathers 79 Dodge pick-up with a 318 blew a lower rad hose once. I had to drive it to crappy tire ( 5 km's to get a lower hose. Drove there and back and she was over heating and smoking like crazy. Died as soon as I drove it into the back yard. The rad hose didn't fit as the rad originally came from a 440 car, and the old hose was waw swollen so it fit fine when my dad put that rad in. So as the truck was cooling, I spliced both the old and new hose together with a piece of pipe. By the time I had it fitting, I filled it with water and it ran fine. No problems at all. But that's a chrysler for you! An import would have blown apart. It lasted for another 100,000 + km's. Finally scrapped it at 286,000 km's. No floor left, burned a gallon of oil every 25 km's, but never any work done to it except a couple of starters. The AMC 6 is built like that also, I don't think there would be much damage except for a head gasket (if it blew). But if something froze and caused a freeze plug to blow, or something else gave out because of freezing, did you not have anti-freeze in it? >> > (REPOST AFTER CRAP) >> > [quoted text clipped - 162 lines] > > nate I think your thermostat got stuck closed. Replace it. When the thermostat sticks, the radiator is cold, the coolant boils in the engine and steam goes everywhere. The engine is usually okay until the temp gauge pins and the engine seizes. When your engine goes haywire, its best to pull over immediately and shut down the engine before you reach the point of no return. If it is your head gasket, then chalk up another feather in my hat and a pin in Anthony's a.s. |
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