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Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / February 200593 Chrysler 3.8 Fuel Bar Pressure
Our 93 Chrysler New Yorker 5th Ave. has 150K miles. Runs great except starting first thing in the morning. Must give it the 1,2,3 then crank and it starts. Good for the rest of the day. What is the cause for the loss in fuel pressure in the fuel bar?? How can this problem be solved?? Bob > Our 93 Chrysler New Yorker 5th Ave. has 150K miles. Runs great except > starting first thing in the morning. Must give it the 1,2,3 then crank > and it starts. Good for the rest of the day. What is the cause for the > loss in fuel pressure in the fuel bar?? Faulty fuel pump outlet check valve and/or faulty fuel pressure regulator and/or leaking injector(s). > How can this problem be solved?? Diagnosis and repair. I've got a 93 3.3 and am having the same problem, I think. With mine, I have to turn the key completely off and then back on 1 or 2 times and then it starts. Is that what you have to do also ? I've replaced both my fuel pump (went out on vacation) and fuel rail, which included the pressure regulator (the rail sprung a leak). Is there any way to check the injectors other than pulling the rail and looking at each one ? thanks, Nick >> Our 93 Chrysler New Yorker 5th Ave. has 150K miles. Runs great except >> starting first thing in the morning. Must give it the 1,2,3 then crank [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Diagnosis and repair. > Is there any way to check the injectors other than pulling the rail and > looking at each one ? Not so much "looking" as wrapping the squirter end of each injector in a tight twist of paper towel and coming back the next AM to see if any of the wads of paper towel smell of gasoline. ok, thanks for the tip. Didn't want to take the plenum off and pull the rail, but if that's what it takes, I gotta do it. I was also thinking of putting a pressure gauge on the test port of the rail, note the pressure, leave it on overnight and then check it in the morning. thanks again, Nick >> Is there any way to check the injectors other than pulling the rail and >> looking at each one ? > > Not so much "looking" as wrapping the squirter end of each injector in a > tight twist of paper towel and coming back the next AM to see if any of > the wads of paper towel smell of gasoline. install a fuel pressure gauge. start vehicle and let idle for two minutes then shut the engine off monitor fuel pressure. if the fuel pressure drop more than 15 psi with 20-30 mins the check valve inside the fuel pump is no good and therefore pump must be replace. if pressure is dropping very slowly and it takes the next morinng to loose 10 psi your injectors may be leaking. but most of the time its your fuel pump > ok, thanks for the tip. Didn't want to take the plenum off and pull the > rail, but if that's what it takes, I gotta do it. I was also thinking of > putting a pressure gauge on the test port of the rail, note the > pressure, leave it on overnight and then check it in the morning. That works to tell you you're losing pressure (duh, you already know that!), what you need to do is figure out *where*. > > Not so much "looking" as wrapping the squirter end of each injector in > > a tight twist of paper towel and coming back the next AM to see if any > > of the wads of paper towel smell of gasoline. Nick, We have the same problem. I have to shut off the key 3 times for it to start. Placed pressure gage on Fuel Bar and did not loose pressure in 15 minutes. Next step is to leave gage on over night to see how much it drops. Running pressure is up to 50 psi. Engine runs too smooth to be a fuel pump problem. Bob Thanks Bob and tdodge, based on everyone's tips and help, it looks like the injectors might be the problem. Coming home from Florida in August, our fuel pump went out. I had it replaced at a Dodge dealership in Lake Norman. So I think I can rule out the pump. The rail was replaced earlier in the spring because it sprung a leak. I replaced the ASD and fuel pump relays and the coolant temperature sensor. So I'll check the fuel pressure next. thanks again, Nick > Nick, We have the same problem. I have to shut off the key 3 times for > it to start. Placed pressure gage on Fuel Bar and did not loose > pressure in 15 minutes. Next step is to leave gage on over night to see > how much it drops. Running pressure is up to 50 psi. Engine runs too > smooth to be a fuel pump problem. Bob > Thanks Bob and tdodge, based on everyone's tips and help, it looks like the > injectors might be the problem. Pick up a set of matched-flow replacement injectors from the "injector guru", www.lindertech.com . > So I think I can rule out the pump. The rail was replaced earlier in the > spring because it sprung a leak. Aside from actual fuel supply line leaks, the injectors are pretty much the only leakdown point left! thanks for the advice. I don't have any fuel line leaks. Also, this problem began before the rail started leaking and before the fuel pump went out. When I replaced the rail, I thought, 'oh this must be the problem', when I had the pump replaced, again I thought, 'oh this must be the problem'. Well neither fixed the problem, so your comment about the injectors being the only component left, sounds about right. thanks, Nick >> Thanks Bob and tdodge, based on everyone's tips and help, it looks like >> the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Aside from actual fuel supply line leaks, the injectors are pretty much > the only leakdown point left! Bob, please post back if you find the problem and I'll do the same. Thanks, Nick > Nick, We have the same problem. I have to shut off the key 3 times for > it to start. Placed pressure gage on Fuel Bar and did not loose > pressure in 15 minutes. Next step is to leave gage on over night to see > how much it drops. Running pressure is up to 50 psi. Engine runs too > smooth to be a fuel pump problem. Bob Nick, The pressure has dropped 5 psi in about 30 minutes. The auto is now being checked to see if it leaks down over night. I wonder if a good fuel injector cleaner might help? If so what brand should I buy? Will get back to all you in the morning and give you the results of overnight pressure loss. Bob I've had best results with (Dupont?) Techron Fuel Injector Cleaner. Unfortunately, it is also the most expensive. > Nick, The pressure has dropped 5 psi in about 30 minutes. The auto is > now being checked to see if it leaks down over night. I wonder if a > good fuel injector cleaner might help? If so what brand should I buy? > Will get back to all you in the morning and give you the results of > overnight pressure loss. Bob Nick, As promised!! After the overnight checking of the psi on the Fuel Bar it was down to "0". I gave it the 3 second 3 interval and then cranked to a start. Pressure then came up to 50 psi. I watched it for 45 minutes and then it started to drop. It dropped fast and shortly was at 10 psi. At this low pressure it still started with ease. I purchased the best injector cleaner and we will see if that will have any effect. I am still puzzled as to what might be the problem. Bob Bob, based on other posts to this thread, it appears one (or more) injector is leaking and relieving the pressure when the engine is off. They suggested replacing the injector. Someone suggested pulling the rail and wrapping a napkin or paper towel around the injectors overnight to see which ones are damp with gasoline in the morning. I haven't got that far yet, but plan on it. I also need to check out the price of a complete set of injectors. Hate to replace one and have another go out in a few months. Nick > Nick, As promised!! After the overnight checking of the psi on the > Fuel Bar it was down to "0". I gave it the 3 second 3 interval and then [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > any effect. I am still puzzled as to what might be the problem. > Bob Nick, I have never changed the fuel pump on ours, so I am inclined to think it is the pump in the gas tank. Ron made a good point earlier. Yours may be the injectors. Daniel suggested wrapping the injectors with towels. He also made the comment: >Pick up a set of matched-flow replacement > injectors from the "injector guru", > www.lindertech.com The key words here are "Matched Flow". If I must replace the injectors I will replace them all at the same time. Nick, we could correspond directly by e-mail, but I feel the other guys have been a help and maybe we can help others. Bob Bob; I'll tell you when my fuel pump went there was no warning. It just quit on I77 heading north just outside of Charlotte. Now maybe something in your pump is bad that allows you to drive it without a problem, but is causing your hard cold start problem. Someone mentioned a bad check valve. I think you were going to try the injector cleaner to see if that might work. Let us know. I'm checking prices on injectors. thanks, Nick > Nick, I have never changed the fuel pump on ours, so I am inclined to > think it is the pump in the gas tank. Ron made a good point earlier. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Nick, we could correspond directly by e-mail, but I feel the other guys > have been a help and maybe we can help others. Bob Nick, The car runs great!! The problem is only in the first start of the day. We go through the 123 then crank and it is fine for the rest of the day. It may sit for several hours, but start right off after that initial start. Bob If it were in the shop and had an emissions analyzer they would be able o detect which one is bad by sniffing the runners of the intake > I've got a 93 3.3 and am having the same problem, I think. With mine, I > have to turn the key completely off and then back on 1 or 2 times and then [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > > >> How can this problem be solved?? If it were in the shop that had an emissions analyzer they would be able to detect which one is bad by sniffing the runners of the intake, The excessive hydrocarbons would fail it Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech > > Diagnosis and repair. > > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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