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Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / June 2005'83 Chrysler 5th Ave bucking
My 5th ave has 80 thousand miles on it, I love this car. A few days ago it started bucking badly once it warmed up. I brought it to be looked at and was told I needed to replace the carburetor. I don't know if I trust this guy to know what is wrong and am afraid he's just taking a guess. I really don't want to invest a lot of money in this car but , as I said, I do love it. Any suggestions other than a second opinion..I intend to do that anyhow as this is a death sentence case. > My 5th ave has 80 thousand miles on it, I love this car. A few days ago > it started bucking badly once it warmed up. I brought it to be looked at [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I do love it. Any suggestions other than a second opinion..I intend to > do that anyhow as this is a death sentence case. This post makes very little sense. You've got a low-miles car that you "love", and you'd happily keep driving it if it weren't bucking, so you want it properly diagnosed and repaired, and you don't want to pay good money for that diagnosis and repair. As long as I have all that correct, then the logical conclusion is that if the repair cost for this car that you "love" exceeds some arbitrary figure, you'll simply scrap it and buy a replacement car. There are LOTS of potential causes for bucking in an '83 5th Avenue, whether it's the FWD 5th Avenue or the RWD 5th Avenue. You're right to suspect that whomever you took it to is just guessing at it being the carburetor. Proper diagnosis is absolutely critical on the complex and primitive '80s engine management systems such as the one in your car. DS Fyi 83-89(M body) 5th avenues are rwd.So dont post sh.t if you dont know anything about the topic.Also mr stern you fool fwd 5th aves were made in the 90's not the 80's dah. > Fyi 83-89(M body) 5th avenues are rwd. Yes indeed. And in some parts of North America, FWD 5th Avenues were sold in the 1980s, as well. RWD Caravelles, too! DS Thanks , I guess I will try to find someone I can trust to look at my car, that's not as easy as it sounds. The problem is I don't know much about cars and neither does my husband. When I bring my cars in for service I always think they see an easy mark and We wind up spending a lot of money on repairs that I am never certain we needed. We put a lot of mileage on our cars and both of our other cars are new , my 5th Ave is an extra so I wouldn't have to replace it but it's the one I like the most.I guess an older car like that is not for people like me. As the other person said, you are going to have to decide whether you want to spend money to repair the car or to buy another one. Usually it makes financial sense to repair the old one since your purchase price is essentially a sunk cost....you will never recover it. Buying another car will only add to the money you have spent on cars. Or said another way it almost always makes monetary sense to repair rather than replace a car. Do a bit of research by looking up all local 5th Avenue (Chrysler???) dealers at the business complaints department in your city or county. Find the largest dealer with the fewest complaints and take your car to them for a proper diagnosis and repair. > Do a bit of research by looking up all local 5th Avenue (Chrysler???) > dealers at the business complaints department in your city or county. > Find the largest dealer with the fewest complaints and take your car to > them for a proper diagnosis and repair. VERY poor advice. New-car dealers don't want to see your 10-year-old car, let alone your 22-year-old one. "VERY poor advice. New-car dealers don't want to see your 10-year-old car, let alone your 22-year-old one." JS> Really...what out-of-date car do you drive...a Yugo or Trabant??? Or are you possibly an independent mechanic shilling for business? I've heard that spiel before from shady indies... Most dealers I'm aware of are glad for the business and will do what they can to repair the car. They are in the business of making money by repairing cars and it is hard to do that by turning business away. And no I don't work for a dealer...but I have learned over the years from experience that they generally do a good job. >> "VERY poor advice. New-car dealers don't want to see your 10-year-old >> car, let alone your 22-year-old one." > Really...what out-of-date car do you drive...a Yugo or Trabant? I've got several out-of-date cars, actually. They range in age from 16 to 43 model years old. But no Yugos or Trabants, I'm afraid. > Or are you possibly an independent mechanic shilling for business? Nope. If I were one of those, I'd've mentioned a specific shop name, don'tchya think? Given that the original poster didn't mention a location, it'd be kind of hard for any shill job to be effective, don'tchya think? > And no I don't work for a dealer...but I have learned over the years > from experience that they generally do a good job. Given that you advised the original poster to find "a Fifth Avenue (Chrysler???) dealer", it's likely you've little experience with Chrysler dealer, er, "service" departments. There are some excellent, talented, highly competent techs you can run into now and then, when their service managers let them do a good and complete job. For the most part, though, turnover is high enough that it's rare to find a tech who's even passingly familiar with olde-tyme (carbureted) engine management. They just don't see a lot of '83 Fifth Avenues at Chrysler dealers any more, and most of them try very hard to keep it that way. They won't out-and-out refuse the business, but they'll often quote the job very high, the object being either to shoo the customer away, or to make the customer pay for their time in chasing down parts that no longer exist in the Chrysler system, digging dusty old books out of the basement, and time spent while techs who can diagnose EFI faults in their sleep learn on the fly how to diagnose and repair the older systems. My experience as a longtime owner of older Chrysler products is that even on those occasions when the dealer service department won't highball the quote, and will make a genuine effort to complete the repair, the results are often less than satisfactory. Your experience with other-make dealers may differ, but since we're discussing a 22-year-old Chrysler product here, mine's more relevant. DS "There are some excellent, talented, highly competent techs you can run into now and then, when their service managers let them do a good and complete job. For the most part, though, turnover is high enough that it's rare to find a tech who's even passingly familiar with olde-tyme (carbureted) engine management....They won't out-and-out refuse the business, but they'll often quote the job very high, the object being either to shoo the customer away, or to make the customer pay for their time in chasing down parts that no longer exist in the Chrysler system, digging dusty old books out of the basement, and time spent while techs who can diagnose EFI faults in their sleep learn on the fly how to diagnose and repair the older systems." JS> Wow...that's an apalling description of Chrysler dealerships and the quality of work their repair shops do. If true, I have to think that car buyers would be abandoning Chrysler. And yet the news I read tells me that Chrysler is doing far better than it's U.S. competition. Interesting how the real world can sometimes differ from strongly held opinions. > JS> Wow...that's an apalling description of Chrysler dealerships and > the quality of work their repair shops do. If true, I have to think > that car buyers would be abandoning Chrysler. Spend some time over on rec.autos.makers.chrysler, or spend some retroactive time there via dejanews. > "There are some excellent, talented, highly competent techs you can run > into now and then, when their service managers let them do a good and [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Interesting how the real world can sometimes differ from strongly held > opinions. Its the same if you take a 1980 Town Car to a Ford dealer, or an 85 Caprice to a Chevy dealer, or a 84 Civic to a Honda dealer. Its just not profitable for DEALER service departments to work on cars that old, brand has nothing to do with it. > JS> Wow...that's an apalling description of Chrysler dealerships and > the quality of work their repair shops do. If true, I have to think > that car buyers would be abandoning Chrysler. And yet the news I read > tells me that Chrysler is doing far better than it's U.S. competition. > Interesting how the real world can sometimes differ from strongly held > opinions. Chrysler is doing better than the US nameplate competition because of the product, specifically the 300 and Magnum, and soon the Charger. Meanwhile, GM has new, generic front-drive cars like LaCrosse, and Ford has new generic front-drive cars like the 500. Actually, the 500 and Montego are nice cars, but should have a little more motor. Still, the competition is pretty tough in the $25-30K generic front-drive car catagory. "Kokomo Kid" <kokomoNOSPAMkit@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:SJNge.304 > Chrysler is doing better than the US nameplate competition because of the > product, specifically the 300 and Magnum, and soon the Charger. Meanwhile, > GM has new, generic front-drive cars like LaCrosse, and Ford has new generic > front-drive cars like the 500. Actually, the 500 and Montego are nice cars, > but should have a little more motor. Still, the competition is pretty tough > in the $25-30K generic front-drive car catagory. GM and Ford have, from all reports I have seen, been very good at making cars that few people want. Both these giants are in dire straits. Their cars are bargains right now. Chrysler has some interesting cars, if they can overcome the quality stigma that they so justly deserved a couple of decades ago. Still, quality concerns, gas prices, and state of the economy can play havoc with the best laid plans. > "VERY poor advice. New-car dealers don't want to see your 10-year-old > car, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > they can to repair the car. They are in the business of making money > by repairing cars and it is hard to do that by turning business away. Have you actually TRIED taking a 22 year old car to a dealer? I think not.... Actually yes. And I've seen them working on cars from the 1970's. There is no guaranty they will have the parts, but it is a better place to start than some independent shop who will use the least expensive alternative including boneyard parts. > Actually yes. And I've seen them working on cars from the 1970's. > There is no guaranty they will have the parts, but it is a better place > to start than some independent shop who will use the least expensive > alternative including boneyard parts. I have no idea why on earth anyone would think a dealer would be any better, in general, than an independent. You get good and bad with both if you don't do your homework, but dealers are geared to getting the late-model customers in and out quick, not to diagnosing something that they can't even call up in their computers anymore. You obviously don't actually own an old car. I own 5, ranging from 1949 to 1993. I don't even go to the dealer with my wife's 1993 car anymore, because the last time I did they told me "we can't get that part anymore, you'll have to buy the whole assembly for $600," in regard to a part that cost me $50 elsewhere. I agree, Steve. There are some good dealerships (which is more than I would have said a couple of years ago) but there are a lot that are not good at all. Prices tend to be higher and work crappier. I have not had one of my cars serviced or repaired at a dealership in about 20 years. Those things I cannot or will not do myself, I take to a dependable independent garage. (You may have to search for them too, but they are out there.) Most, but not all, service or filling stations are to be wary of. Sue, Over the years I have had good luck with AAA approved repair shops. You do not have to be a member of AAA to go to their website and look for shops in your area. www.aaa.com will get you to the site, then enter your zip code. You may have to do a bit of looking, but the repair shop function can be accessed from here. Thank You very much, we actually are members of AAA but I didn't know about this service. Will check it out. Just a thought, but a plugged air filter on the gas tank vent can cause it to surge or buck when warmed up. The filter is about $2.00 and is on the bottom of the charcoal canister. One fast test for this is to open the gas cap when it is acting up. If it starts running right, then the canister is the likely trouble. Mike 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > Thanks , I guess I will try to find someone I can trust to look at my > car, that's not as easy as it sounds. The problem is I don't know much [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > is an extra so I wouldn't have to replace it but it's the one I like > the most.I guess an older car like that is not for people like me. Thanks, I 'm going to try that. > Thanks , I guess I will try to find someone I can trust to look at my > car, that's not as easy as it sounds. The problem is I don't know much [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > is an extra so I wouldn't have to replace it but it's the one I like > the most.I guess an older car like that is not for people like me. I am not sure about the USA, but here in Canada the CAA (which is our equivalent of the AAA) gives an approval rating to service shops that neet their criteria for competence, honesty and being trustworthy. You might want to ask a local AAA office about any recommended shops near you. They may help whether you are an AAA member or not. Ken Pisichko Canada >> Thanks , I guess I will try to find someone I can trust to look at my >> car, that's not as easy as it sounds. The problem is I don't know much [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >want to ask a local AAA office about any recommended shops near you. They >may help whether you are an AAA member or not. when i was getting my car towed to my usual garage, i asked the CAA guy where he gets his tow trucks repaired. i'll be there next. ...thehick > Thanks , I guess I will try to find someone I can trust to look at my > car, that's not as easy as it sounds. The problem is I don't know much [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > is an extra so I wouldn't have to replace it but it's the one I like > the most.I guess an older car like that is not for people like me. Sue, over the years, we've run into driveability problems with 5th Ave's as you describe. I'm assuming yours is the v-8, 318 cubic inch, with rear-wheel drive. If that be the case, it's got the "lean-burn" engine management system on it. A quick way to determine if your ECM is faulty is to temporarily swap air cleaners with someone's 5th Ave that is performing correctly. I'm betting the computer, mounted on the air cleaner, is causing your problem. If when you swap--MAKING SURE THE NUMBERS ON THE COMPUTER ARE IDENTICAL--your engine performs correctly, then you can simply replace your computer, maybe a new one from Chrysler, a re-built one from Chrysler, or an after-market one from an auto parts chain, like NAPA. In our experience, the carbs don't give that much trouble--just the computers which control the carb as well as other driveability-related controls. Good luck & HTH. s > Sue, over the years, we've run into driveability problems with 5th Ave's > as you describe. I'm assuming yours is the v-8, 318 cubic inch, with [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > controls. > Good luck & HTH. s Much appreciated, as were the other tips, none of which she had a chance to try. Sue asked me to monitor the group for answers while she's away for the weekend (sans the 5th Avenue). Finding another 5th Avenue owner to swap air cleaners with could be a problem, but we'll look around. Thanks, Brother Bob > Much appreciated, as were the other tips, none of which she had a chance > to try. Sue asked me to monitor the group for answers while she's away > for the weekend (sans the 5th Avenue). Finding another 5th Avenue owner > to swap air cleaners with could be a problem, but we'll look around. www.car-part.com , searchable used auto parts clear across North America. The item you'd be after is listed as "Computer Box - Engine". The other poster is right; the Carter BBD carburetor on this '83 is generally reliable and durable. However, it *is* a feedback carburetor with a duty cycle solenoid that can stick and cause driveability problems (e.g. bucking). That doesn't necessarily mean it needs replacement, but it may need service. Also, your '83 would have an early type of Oxygen sensor that ought to be replaced every 30,000 miles. Most people don't, though, and the sensor finally gives up the ghost and causes driveability faults. The O2 sensor can be found threaded into the front of the driver's side exhaust manifold. Looks like an oversized spark plug. There's one wire leading to it. If you unplug this wire at the connector and the bucking stops...! > > My 5th ave has 80 thousand miles on it, I love this car. A few days ago > > it started bucking badly once it warmed up. I brought it to be looked at [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > you "love" exceeds some arbitrary figure, you'll simply scrap it and buy a > replacement car. Lite bulb strikes again with another reply, hey lite bulb, there were no front wheel drive 5th ave then, and if you cant post to a reply without being such a dumbass why dont you just keep your fingers off the key board > There are LOTS of potential causes for bucking in an '83 5th Avenue, > whether it's the FWD 5th Avenue or the RWD 5th Avenue. You're right to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > DS > My 5th ave has 80 thousand miles on it, I love this car. A few days ago > it started bucking badly once it warmed up. I brought it to be looked [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > as I said, I do love it. Any suggestions other than a second opinion..I > intend to do that anyhow as this is a death sentence case. When was the last time this vehicle was tuned up with a good set of plugs and wires?, Those carburetors were very easy to overhaul with just a carb kit and a set of floats, has that option been given to you? And was the car put on an oscilloscope to check the primary and secondary voltages? Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech >>My 5th ave has 80 thousand miles on it, I love this car. A few days ago >>it started bucking badly once it warmed up. I brought it to be looked [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Glenn Beasley > Chrysler Tech Actually, just a crudded up cap and rotor can cause a lean-running 70s or 80s 318 to kick and buck quite a bit, especially when hot. Basically, given nothing more than the info above, I'd guess its either fuel starvation (fuel filter, fuel pump) or a secondary ignition problem (coil, wires, plugs). Carb would be a lot further down on my list. > >>My 5th ave has 80 thousand miles on it, I love this car. A few days ago > >>it started bucking badly once it warmed up. I brought it to be looked [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > fuel starvation (fuel filter, fuel pump) or a secondary ignition problem > (coil, wires, plugs). Carb would be a lot further down on my list. Yup I agree with you Thank You all so very much for your input.I never expected so many responses and appreciate them all. I do feel better about getting my car back on the road now. I will be trying your suggestions and will report back when the problem is (hopefully) solved. Once again, thanks to all... Well, mystery solved. Even the mechanic was bafffled for awhile, idled fine but bucked once you drove it around for awhile. It was the brakes. I'll try to expain what he said. Once the brakes got heated up and you stepped on the brakes the brake hose was collapsing and when you took your foot off the brake they weren't totally disengaging , almost like driving with your emergency brake on. Make sense? Sure glad I didn't get that new carburator! Thanks again for all your input. You made me keep looking for someone who knew what they were doing instead of just giving up and I'm glad I did. |
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