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Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / February 2006Should I get my 300M aligned?
Bill Putney has me nervous. The steering wheel is slightly crooked after getting the clunk repaired but I hate to get the car aligned and wheel straightened and risk someone not knowing how to handle the front end of an LH car during an alignment messing up the bushings again . Also, looking at the car yesterday, I noticed that the hose for the windshield washers was sticking out the back of the hood. It was easy to route the hose correctly but even though the dealer got the clunk fixed it still shows they ignored details. Would the plastic wiper cowl trim have to be removed to change the inner tie rod bushing? If not, than the first dealer messed up the hose and not the one who changed the bushing and fixed the clunk. > Bill Putney has me nervous. The steering wheel is slightly crooked after > getting the clunk repaired but I hate to get the car aligned and wheel > straightened and risk someone not knowing how to handle the front end of an > LH car during an alignment messing up the bushings again . Thousands of these cars get aligned every month- there are plenty of competent shops that know how to do it. And you can check yourself afterward: with the car sitting level and the wheels straight ahead, the tie-rod joint at the wheel should be centered on the ball (top of joint horizontal) and the bushing end at the steering rack should be perpendicular to the retaining bolt head (plane of "flat" end of tie-rod vertical). > Would the plastic wiper cowl trim have to be removed to change the > inner tie rod bushing? Yes. >> Bill Putney has me nervous. The steering wheel is slightly crooked >> after getting the clunk repaired but I hate to get the car aligned and [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Yes. I concur with both of Steve's answers. Sorry to make you paranoid about the tie rod - the important thing is to just be aware of it and check after the alignment. Since you didn't know about this before, you don't know if that had ever contributed to or caused the problem or not. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') If the tie rod bushing was damaged during an alignment, would that affect the position of the steering wheel assuming the mechanic did not double check the steering wheel and compensate? The reason I ask is at some point, many years ago, the steering wheel became slightly misaligned to the right. I never did anything about it and I don't remember at what point it happened. It could have gone unnoticed after an alignment since my wife mostly drove the car. In changing the rack, bottom half of the steering column, and struts, I made the Chrysler dealer align the steering wheel. After the clunk was fixed by the Dodge dealer, the steering wheel is now off to the left about the same amount it used to be off to the right. I find that a strange coincidence. >>> Bill Putney has me nervous. The steering wheel is slightly crooked >>> after getting the clunk repaired but I hate to get the car aligned and [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address > with the letter 'x') > If the tie rod bushing was damaged during an alignment, would that affect > the position of the steering wheel assuming the mechanic did not double > check the steering wheel and compensate? No. The wheel can be perfectly centered and the tie rod can be in a binding situation. Also, the tie rods can be properly centered torsionally, and the wheel can be off-center if the shop didn't bother to center the wheel as a step in the alignment. Steering wheel centering has to do with both left/right tie rods being adjusted in *length* properly to center the wheel. The binding issue happens when a mechanic adjusts the length without making sure that the tie rod inner and outer ends wind up in the proper rotational relationship as a last step before tightening down the jamb nuts. FWIW, that issue isn't unique to the LH cars. All older rear-drive cars with recirculating ball steering need to have their tie rods "centered" torsionally so that both the inner and outer tie rod joints are in a neutral travel position. Its just that a lot of mechanics don't expect to have to do that with rack-and-pinion cars, although they SHOULD since a lot of GM cars are exactly the same way, IIRC. >> If the tie rod bushing was damaged during an alignment, would that >> affect the position of the steering wheel assuming the mechanic did >> not double check the steering wheel and compensate? > ...the tie rods can be properly centered > torsionally, and the wheel can be off-center if the shop didn't bother > to center the wheel as a step in the alignment... An astute DIY'er that knows what he or she (yeah right!) is doing can maka the adjustment by trial and error, first figuring out which way to turn each adjuster. You would simply adjust both tie rods the exact same amount in opposite directions (i.e, lengthen one, shorten the other), making a note of exactly how much of a turn was made for the first correction, and drive it to see how it is. Put reference tick marks on the tie rod and adjusters with a permanent marker *before* making any changes - otherwise you'll lose track of where you are in the iterative process. Adjusting them in opposite directions affects steering wheel centering without throwing the toe setting off. Adjusting in the same direction changes the toe setting but keeps the steering wheel centering (or lack thereof) the same - so you *don't want to do that. By proportioning the amount it is off after the first adjustment by how much it was originally off and comparing that to the adjustment (turns) first made, he should be able to hit it dead nuts the second time. But yeah - technically, it should be returned to the shop to make them complete the job correctly for no cost. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') So my question is, how did the steering wheel get off? They replaced the bushing. Nothing else is on the receipt. Neither the Dodge dealer or the Chrysler dealer itemized an alignment at any time during the huge amount of front end work. When I asked the Chrysler dealer about it the service writer said it was part of the job and in the cost of the job so not separately itemized. So assuming it was done at both shops, and knowing that it went into the Dodge dealer with the steering wheel straight on, how does it get off during alignment unless the shop is incompetent? And if it is, why would I let them do another alignment there? >>> If the tie rod bushing was damaged during an alignment, would that >>> affect the position of the steering wheel assuming the mechanic did not [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address > with the letter 'x') > So my question is, how did the steering wheel get off? They replaced the > bushing. Nothing else is on the receipt. Neither the Dodge dealer or the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > does it get off during alignment unless the shop is incompetent? And if it > is, why would I let them do another alignment there? Because toe can be corrected by adjusting one or the other or both tie rod adjusters. A lazy tech will adjust only one to get the total toe right so that the tires don't wear - but that will, by definition, change the steering wheel centering. An honest and competent tech will keep the centering right as he corrects toe (by working with both left and right adjusters - and he will test it after it's done, and if it's off a little, he will adjust it again until it's right (both in spec. and centered). An honest but incompetent or an dishonest but competent or a dishonest and incompetent tech will not get the job done, excpet by luck. An honest and competent tech will adjust according to the interplay between total toe and steering wheel centering. Like any job, an otherwise competent and honest tech will also take short cuts (i.e., not worry about the centering) if his boss puts too much pressure on him for throughput/productivity. Keep in mind that even if the toe adjusters are not touched, making adjustments in camber and caster will also throw off the effective steering wheel centering by introducing forces into the system that tend to pull it in one direction or the other (i.e., left or right). This is why I insist on getting 'before' and 'after' printouts on my alignments. That way, if things aren't 'feeling' right, I don't have to scratch my head and wonder about which of the several things could be causing that new symptom like you are now doing - I simply look at the numbers and see what changed that would correct or cause whatever. > And if it > is, why would I let them do another alignment there? That's something you have to decide. It's also where the printouts can help you decide about the integrity (honesty and competency) of the shop. Any shop that refuses to provide printouts is automatically off my list - and you may find that to be the case. It's like a lot of things in industry - if they know they are being audited, the deviant behavior will be tempered. And if things are fudged, a clever auditor can determine that too (though sometimes not immediately). Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') |
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