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Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / March 2006Chrysler Dynasty AGAIN......Mr Stern, HELP!
This car has been a lemon since day one, I tell ya! Problem (this time) just replaced water pump and a hose (not related), AND muffler but ironically 2 days later on a drive (uphill) to work, I lost power and suffered severe jerking. Pulled over, STALLED, started and parked safely. Hubby picks up car later @ night and can't get the car to make the same motions until it's fully warmed and ...again...going up hill. Sitting in driveway since. Start up tonight, warmed up 15 min or so....and there starts the backfireing type, putt putt gasp gasp...stall? What's going on here? Not fuel filter...(neighbor putters with some sensor and idle picks back up, plugs in...and again putt putt.. HEEEELLLLLP!!! > This car has been a lemon since day one, I tell ya! > Problem (this time) just replaced water pump and a hose (not related), AND [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > What's going on here? Not fuel filter...(neighbor putters with some sensor > and idle picks back up, plugs in...and again putt putt.. HEEEELLLLLP!!! Sounds like a bad coil. Ted > This car has been a lemon since day one, I tell ya! > Problem (this time) just replaced water pump and a hose (not related), AND [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > What's going on here? Not fuel filter...(neighbor putters with some sensor > and idle picks back up, plugs in...and again putt putt.. HEEEELLLLLP!!! Start with having the fuel pressure checked, sounds as if there isn't enough pressure and that's why it is backfiring thru the throttle body. If the check engine lite is on when you drive it (which I doubt it) what is the code. Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech The check engine light DID come on when the neighbor pulled the oxygen sensor ?? off. Could it be this sensor or the relay that it is connected to? PS..My hubby is a chef so make this as painless as possible. One more thing... Why does it run normally when it's cold, but after 10-15 min of driving, that's when it starts to act up? May I just say....this is a WONDERFUL resource, and I'm sure glad I came upon this site. > One more thing... > Why does it run normally when it's cold, but after 10-15 min of driving, > that's when it starts to act up? > > May I just say....this is a WONDERFUL resource, and I'm sure glad I came > upon this site. An 02 sensor wont cause that problem, more then likely the map sensor or coolant temp sensor is out of calibration. If those sensors are out of calibration it may not set a fault code but will cause the engine to run bad. The coolant temp sensor acts like a choke when the engine is cold, it allows the injectors to stay open longer to compensate for the cold temp. when the engine warms up the coolant sensor is supposed to see this and reduce the amount of time the injectors stay open thus causing a leaner mixture. If the engine warms up and the coolant sensor doesn't see this it is going to cause a really rich mixture .Do you see black smoke out the tail pipe when this happens? You will probably need to have a scan tool connected so that the sensor values can be monitored when the problem is happening. And just because you had the fuel pump replaced 2 years ago means nothing (especially if its an aftermarket pump) Your neighbor says its getting fuel...we know that because it runs a little bit.....if you don't have the proper fuel pressure it will cause this to happen. Bottom line, perform fuel pressure test and if ok, scan the system while the problem is occurring. Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech > > One more thing... > > Why does it run normally when it's cold, but after 10-15 min of driving, [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Glenn Beasley > Chrysler Tech This comes from experience, and I realize Glenn knows alot more that I do, BUT...I have a 92 Shadow, 2.5 automatic, that exhibited these same symptoms, and it WAS the o2 sensor that was failing. Not completely gone, but failing. Would run fine cold, but after about 15 minutes, it felt like a bad fuel pump, or clogged fuel filter. Seems the failing o2 sensor thought the mixture was to rich, and was doing its best to lean it out. Replaced the o2 sensor, restored driveability immediately. Mechanic found it using code reader, he did say that was the first time he had had one of these cause driveability problems. Evidently, they (O2 sensor) either work, or they dont, usually. (?!?) Deke > > > One more thing... > > > Why does it run normally when it's cold, but after 10-15 min of driving, [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Deke They either work don't work or are slow to respond. And that happens all the time with those sensors.. They only work when the engine is warmed up and in closed loop. You also had the fault code set. Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech Fuel pump is new maybe 2 yrs (max) ago. And neighbor says the car IS getting fuel. We thought fuel filter but when this relay switch (to oxygen sensor) was removed the check engine light came on the the idle rpm went up. ?? > Fuel pump is new maybe 2 yrs (max) ago. And neighbor says the car IS > getting fuel. We thought fuel filter but when this relay switch (to > oxygen sensor) was removed the check engine light came on the the idle rpm > went up. ?? Sounds like time for a new O2 sensor to me. When you unplug it the computer goes into a default mode and it sounds like the computer is getting wildly inaccurate readings from the O2 sensor (i.e. it sounds like the sensor is reading way richer or leaner than the actual A/F ratio) it's easy enough to try, ASSuming that it isn't seized in place. nate Sounds like an O2 sensor to me as well. O2 sensors do NOT affect the fuel mix when the engine is cold. When the engine heats up, then it provides a signal to the engine control module. If the signal the ECM gets is not correct, then all kinds of crap can happen. My mini-van used to cough and sputter going up hills. But when I checked, no engine fault codes! But it did not do this all the time. :( After a couple of months I took it to my usual shop. They diagnosed it with a scope as the O2 sensor within 2 minutes. In & Out of the shop in 30 minutes - including paying for the repair. hth >> Fuel pump is new maybe 2 yrs (max) ago. And neighbor says the car IS >> getting fuel. We thought fuel filter but when this relay switch (to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >nate funny you should mention SIEZING IN PLACE. We went to a Pick n Pull wrecker to see if we could pull one off a recent wreck. NOPE NOPE! After an hour and many scratches and punctures, we gave up and bought a new one. Installed it no problem, and now it idles a bit better but only until you depress gas pedal and then it sputters again! Oh well. Enough for today....Tomorrow...New fuel filter. After that... CLIFF? turn the ing. key on and off three time, then count the ch. engine lite flashes and repost with the results u will get a short flash for the first digit of the code and a longer flash for the second digit of the code. 12 and 55 are normal codes expect to see them > > This car has been a lemon since day one, I tell ya! > > Problem (this time) just replaced water pump and a hose (not related), AND [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Glenn Beasley > Chrysler Tech > This car has been a lemon since day one, I tell ya! > Problem (this time) just replaced water pump and a hose (not related), AND [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > What's going on here? Not fuel filter...(neighbor putters with some sensor > and idle picks back up, plugs in...and again putt putt.. HEEEELLLLLP!!! What engine does this car have? It could be the 2.5 4 Cyl, or either the 3.0 or 3.3 V6. Have you tried to dump out the codes using the key off/on method? If it is the 3.3, the crank and camshaft sensors should be checked along with the other suggestions that have been made. -Kirk Matheson Thank You Kirk....yes, it is the 3.3. Sensors huh? Will try the rest and get back. To check the computer codes: With the engine off, switch the ignition key on-off-on-off-on, leaving it "ON". Do not go to "start", just "on" during this procedure. Watch the "Check Engine" or "Power Loss" light. It will turn on, then go off, then will begin to flash-out any trouble codes that have been stored. For instance, if it flashes: flash <pause> flash flash <long pause> flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash <long pause> flash flash flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash Then you have a 12 (one flash followed by two) a 35 (three and five) and a 55 (five and five). 55 means "end of codes" or, if by itself, "No codes stored. Check the codes and report what you find. OKAY SO I DID THE ON OFF THING AND I ENDED UP WITH 3,2,5,3 OR 32 AND 53 I AM NOT SURE CAN SOME ONE HELP WITH THIS PLEASE,,,TY 32 is egr failure and 53 is pcm internal failure replace the egr valve and transducer and then see how it runs the pcm failure code is not a biggy right now since it runs it could be a false code > OKAY SO I DID THE ON OFF THING AND I ENDED UP WITH 3,2,5,3 OR 32 AND 53 I > AM NOT SURE CAN SOME ONE HELP WITH THIS PLEASE,,,TY > OKAY SO I DID THE ON OFF THING AND I ENDED UP WITH 3,2,5,3 OR 32 AND 53 I > AM NOT SURE CAN SOME ONE HELP WITH THIS PLEASE,,,TY Don't just replace parts because there is a fault code. Especially since you said your neighbor had disconnected some sensors, because if he did that with the key on....codes would have been set, especially the EGR Valve. Since someone has already been disconnecting things the first this to do is clear the codes and se if any pop back up Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech > OKAY SO I DID THE ON OFF THING AND I ENDED UP WITH 3,2,5,3 OR 32 AND 53 OK, that's possible. 32 indicates an EGR system fault that could easily and totally account for your car's poor running. Most likely a faulty EGR valve, but could be another component in the system. 53 would indicate an internal fault in the engine control computer, which is not very common but if it is real, it could also be causing or contributing to your problem. Be sure to check the codes really carefully and make certain you get the "grouping" right. You really have to watch the length of the pauses between flashes, otherwise you can confuse a 24 for a 51 or a 33, etc. What engine does this car have? ok....so we replaced the O2 Sensor, and it seems to idle nicely (even warmed) BUT...as soon as you depress gas pedal, once again, it starts to putter and peter out. Did the on/off thing again, and THIS time we got....12, 14, 55 Absolutely positively. SO??? Fuel Filter? By the way...where will we find the EGR valve? We are looking at a Chilton Caravan Town and Country book and according to diagram...it's not there? Different car...different location? Thank you sooooooo much, in case I haven't mentioned it before. (Too bad fixin' cars was as easy as cookin') :( > ok....so we replaced the O2 Sensor, and it seems to idle nicely (even > warmed) BUT...as soon as you depress gas pedal, once again, it starts to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thank you sooooooo much, in case I haven't mentioned it before. (Too bad > fixin' cars was as easy as cookin') :( 12 just means that the battery's been disconnected recently. 14 refers to the MAP sensor. 55 merely means the end of the stored codes. Ken > ok....so we replaced the O2 Sensor, and it seems to idle nicely (even > warmed) BUT...as soon as you depress gas pedal, once again, it starts to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thank you sooooooo much, in case I haven't mentioned it before. (Too bad > fixin' cars was as easy as cookin') :( As I stated in previous post, MAP sensor out of calibration possibly causing problem. EGR wont cause back fire. replace the map sensor. Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech ok thanks...we're looking for it. The Chilton book does mention code 14 as Map Sensor as well. So we'll go have a look. I hope this part is not too expensive since we've already spent $$ on the O2 Sensor. :( so can you help me with the location of that Map Sensor? Our car is a 92 with a 3.3L and we just can't find it. In the CHilton Manual they're calling it a ?Diagnostic somethingrather? Is this the same thing? Thanks for your help. I'm not trying to be a pain...(you're talking to the wife) since the hubby is relatively computer uhh...uninterested lets say) Maybe I'm moreso frustrated because we now have a brand new (since Oct) car... and it has less than 5000 km on it and has been in the shop already 3 times...for a new starter, new belts and most recently a new alternator. All that to fix a loud squeeling. Almost 2 weeks they had it in the shop only to return it with white dog hair coving the back seat. We don't own a dog. So that and then THIS has just been the icing on the cake. Sorry if I sound aggresive, I don't mean to. I really do appreciate all your input so far. > so can you help me with the location of that Map Sensor? Our car is a 92 > with a 3.3L and we just can't find it. In the CHilton Manual they're [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > if I sound aggresive, I don't mean to. I really do appreciate all your > input so far. Hi... It's definitely not a diagnostic anything, it's a physical device mounted to and extending into the intake manifold. It's located on the rear (closest to the driver) side of the intake manifold. And with absolutely no disrespect to you and/or your husband, just in case... the intake manifold can be found by following the _large_ air hose that leaves the air cleaner and connects to the top of the engine. One end on the air filter, the other is the intake manifold. After you've found the intake manifold look on the back of it, on the car side, furthest from the radiator. There'll be a three wire electrical connector on it. I _think_ (and stand ready to be corrected) that you'll find it mounted with two screws, one on either side in the horizontal plane. And while I'm at it, it's not possible that somehow with all this work that a vaccuum line has been knocked off, or left disconnected, or damaged, is it? Take care. Ken maybe just mnaybe if you had taken the car in it wiuld have been fixed without the guesswork u have added to it > so can you help me with the location of that Map Sensor? Our car is a 92 > with a 3.3L and we just can't find it. In the CHilton Manual they're [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > if I sound aggresive, I don't mean to. I really do appreciate all your > input so far. hello again....not sure if you're following any of my other posts but here goes, we replaced the 02 sensor...didn't fix the problem. We did the on off on off thing again and this time came up with 12 14 55. 14 is the Map Sensor but we don't have one? The car is a 92 with a 3.3L Is it called something else? Diagnostic something? Is that the same thing and is it feasable to get one from the junkyard? We're so fed up with this car. Grrr! By the way, my husband recently got a muffler for the car (not new) and installed it himself. Could this possibly be the problem? How frusterating!!! > hello again....not sure if you're following any of my other posts but here > goes, we replaced the 02 sensor...didn't fix the problem. We did the on [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > new) and installed it himself. Could this possibly be the problem? How > frusterating!!! You keep complaining about the vehicle yet you insist on installing used junk parts that may be causing your problems and frustration with it. Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech the 02 sensor was brand new....the muffler was almost brand new taken off a recent wreck. Why buy brand new off the shelf if I could buy one for $15 (almost brand new) off a front end wreck? The water pump was brand new as well as the hoses. I'm just wondering if some of these suggested parts are worth buying at a wrecker vs spending $299 on the EGR valve and another 129 on the Map Sensor? We already spend 65$ on the 02 sensor and that was NOT the problem. I just hate to spend our hard earned money on things that aren't fixing the problem. Could this be muffler related? (we're not made of money and can't afford putting it in the shop at 58$/hr +) We've already done that twice for new rebuilt transmissions to the tune of close to 2000 each time all within 2 yrs of eachother) Can't afford a $59.00/hr proper diagnosis, But you can afford a couple hundred dollars to replace parts that DID NOT fix the problem? Bang your head on the desk in front of you!! No, really! People here give you suggestions, Einstein! Since your car is not hooked up on a scanner and, the results posted here, explain how any of this is going to diagnose your exact problem? I would inspect circuitry 1st and make sure that the wires going to the MAP sensor are ok. It would suck to replace the MAP sensor only to find out that a pin has receded in the connector or a wire has abraided and shorted to ground. With the exception of the o2 sensor, most sensors are quite durable, usually its the wiring or a vacuum leak etc. > the 02 sensor was brand new....the muffler was almost brand new taken off > a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > We've already done that twice for new rebuilt transmissions to the tune of > close to 2000 each time all within 2 yrs of eachother) and the winnerrrrrr isssss........ Bathtub Admiral.... After replacing NEW the O2 Sensor....taking off the NOT SO NEW muffler...the fuel filter ...etc....it still wasn't working. So yesterday hubby and boys went thru the whole front end and checked every wire and low and behold there was a wire (in the vicinity of the recently replaced thermostat NEW...that had come unplugged....so once it plugged in...it Purred like a kitty! Thank you all soooooo much for all your help! > > hello again....not sure if you're following any of my other posts but here > > goes, we replaced the 02 sensor...didn't fix the problem. We did the on [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > You keep complaining about the vehicle yet you insist on installing used > junk parts that may be causing your problems and frustration with it. I just flashed to the scene in Christine where the shop owner growls at the kid "yeh ken pick through that old shitpile of parts for anything ye need" Ted Thanks, you've been a great help! and the engine does indeed have a map sensor > > hello again....not sure if you're following any of my other posts but here > > goes, we replaced the 02 sensor...didn't fix the problem. We did the on [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Glenn Beasley > Chrysler Tech > and the engine does indeed have a map sensor > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Glenn Beasley > > Chrysler Tech Learn how to reply to the right person dirty!! |
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