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Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / March 200699 T&C headlight wiring and poor performance
Here's my story: The road illumination from this vehicle seemed to be getting pathetic lately. I noticed that the exterior of the lens were pitted, but as well the interior of the lens has been fogging up and has moisture in them. When they dry out, the reflector and interior of the lens is not clean any more. I can't see any easy way to clean the interior, perhaps someone has tried and has a solution. I expect the sealant in the lens assembly is not doing it's job and some RTV is in order. I decided to at least change my low beam bulbs on this vehicle to Sylvania silver stars and while doing this I thought to myself , hmm, the wiring to these bulbs looks a little light. I decided to investigate and inserted some 30 guage test wires in the connector to the bulb to sense the voltage at the bulb. Sure enough, with the engine running, the battery voltage was 14.1 and the bulb voltage was only 12.75V. About a volt of that loss was in the low side (ground). BTW, after changing one side with the silverstar bulb, there was a noticeable intensity difference between the new bulb and the OEM one that I hadn't changed yet. This may be due to aging of the bulbs not the brand, I'm not sure I believe all the advertising hype. In any event, 10% of the voltage is lost in the wiring! I'll bet that this translates into loosing a few lumens.......My thoughts are to wire in relays or at least a quick fix would be to just run some extra ground wires to each of the bulbs from the battery -ve connection to solve most of the problem. I asked at the dealer and new lens assemblies are C$600 per side. I'll bet there are some aftermarket assemblies out there - Has anyone tried them? comments? Will > Here's my story: > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Will Try this product, it works, alittle elbow grease but worth it. I had my son do this on his 96 Neon. http://brightsolutionsinc.com/index.htm Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech > The road illumination from this vehicle seemed to be getting pathetic > lately. That is a problem endemic to the '96-'00 Chrysler minivans, even the '98-'00 T&C with the 4-lamp system. The lamps are too small for the job they're asked to do, especially given Chrysler's priorities in headlamp development (1: Legal, 2: Cheap, 3: stylish). Legal standards allow a very large range of headlamp performance, so having legal lamps doesn't mean you've got good ones. > I noticed that the exterior of the lens were pitted, but as well > the interior of the lens has been fogging up and has moisture in them. When > they dry out, the reflector and interior of the lens is not clean any more. > I can't see any easy way to clean the interior The only way to clean the interior of this kind of headlamp is to remove it from the vehicle, pour in a cup or two of hot distilled water and two small drops of plain dishwashing liquid (without hand lotion or other additives), cover all bulb holes and slosh vigourously over the kitchen sink, then rinse repeatedly with clear hot distilled water until there are no more suds inside, then shake out as much of the water as possible, then place in an electric kitchen oven, close the door and turn the oven to 300°F for two minutes (and only two minutes!). Turn it off, check to be *sure* you've turned it off, and walk away for an hour. If after that time the lamp is not internally dry, turn the oven on to 300 for another two minutes, shut it off (double check!) and leave it for another hour. Sometimes this cleaning process gets the gunk off the optical surfaces inside the lamp. Sometimes it just finishes off the advanced deterioration. > I expect the sealant in the lens assembly is not doing > it's job and some RTV is in order. RTV emits fumes which attack the shiny stuff of which the reflector is made. Using RTV will worsen and hasten the deterioration of your lamps. The moisture may be entering at the lens-to-reflector seal, but more likely it's coming in and staying in because the lamps' vents and drains are blocked, gunked up, or otherwise not working. Here again, Chrysler could've and should've spent more money on the headlamps on these vans. Cheap junk tends to behave like cheap junk! > I decided to at least change my low beam bulbs on this vehicle to Sylvania > silver stars I'm not sure I believe all the advertising hype. These look "whiter" because of the blue glass, but you are actually getting significantly less usable seeing light out of the headlamps with these bulbs installed, because the blue tint to the bulb glass blocks about 25% of the light produced by the filament. You're wise not to trust the hype. So-called "whiter" light, obtained by tinting the bulb glass blue, does not help you see better under any conditions. > and while doing this I thought to myself , hmm, the wiring to > these bulbs looks a little light. Yep! > I decided to investigate and inserted some 30 guage test wires in the > connector to the bulb to sense the voltage at the bulb. That's exactly how to do it (a lot of people pull the socket off the bulb, stick a voltmeter across the two pins, and conclude there's no problem because the socket voltage equals the battery voltage!) > In any event, 10% of the voltage is lost in the wiring! I'll bet that this > translates into losing a few lumens Lumen output varies to the power 3.4 with voltage change. You measured 14.1v across the battery and 12.75v at the lamps, so: (12.75 ÷ 14.1)^3.4 = 0.71 You are getting 71% of the light you would get if the bulbs were being fed at battery voltage. > My thoughts are to wire in relays Yep, go see http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html for diagrams and discussion of technique. Shoot for 12ga wire. > I asked at the dealer and new lens assemblies are C$600 per side. Isn't it galling to be quoted big money for cruddy headlamps? > I'll bet there are some aftermarket assemblies out there Well, yeah, there's a very good setup for these vans out of Germany. It uses Hella's excellent 90mm modular projector optics, which are self-lensed with hardened glass lenses (won't pit or yellow like the OE plastic) and H7 bulbs. See it and order it at the maker's site here: http://www.vmaxx.de/de/public/?fz=10&cat=2&img=vt00163.jpg Cost is listed at 785 for the complete set (left + right assemblies), which includes the German 16% tax, which is not charged on export orders, so export cost would be around 659 for the set, plus shipping. These European-spec headlamps are legal in Canada under Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108.1. The only thing missing from these assemblies is a sidemarker reflector -- such a reflector is not required outside North America. Very easy to add, though, they're available from NAPA in peel-and-stick form. > comments? The aftermarket lamps you can get at e.g. Canadian Tire are just Taiwanese copies of original equipment -- even cheaper and even nastier than the cheesy originals. What to buy and how to proceed depends on how much you like the van and how long you plan on keeping it! DS The GE NightHawk bulbs sold at Walmart is the best bulb for that applicaiton. And yes, Chrysler significantly underwired that vehicle. Stern Lighting and others sell relays and other parts to significantly upgrade the wires running to the lights. Richard. > The GE NightHawk bulbs sold at Walmart is the best bulb for that > applicaiton. That would be true, but last time I checked, the GE NightHawk line didn't include the straight-base HB3A (9005XS) bulbs needed for the '98-'00 Town & Country (and many other Chrysler vehicles, and a few GMs). > And yes, Chrysler significantly underwired that vehicle. They underlit it, too! > Stern Lighting and others sell relays and other parts to significantly upgrade the > wires running to the lights. You're only sayin' that 'cause it's true. I tried Wal-Mart. They didn't have any 9005xs bulbs in any style. As far as I can tell, GE doesn't make a nighthawk version of this bulb. In fact I had to special order the silver star bulbs from PartSource. I couldn't find a Sylvania Xtravision version either I will attempt the interior lens cleaning DS suggested, and when I dig up some suitable connectors/terminals I'll make up relay harnesses. The VMAXX looks like the hot set-up, but when I checked the euro conversion, it converts to about $966 Canadian. A little too steep for me, but cheaper than the OEM dealer product. I'd certainly spec. them if I had any front end damage and insurance was paying.......... > The GE NightHawk bulbs sold at Walmart is the best bulb for that > applicaiton. And yes, Chrysler significantly underwired that vehicle. > Stern Lighting and others sell relays and other parts to significantly > upgrade the wires running to the lights. > > Richard. WH- You will probably find that all the locally-available sockets are the same cheesy 18ga items the van already has. If you cannot find heavy-duty items locally, I've got ones that accept up to 12ga wire; shoot me an e-mail via danielsternlighting.com . -DS |
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